[Closed] So I want to try road racing + build a bike specifically for this

@CH is that the time crunched book? Looks good, might have to get a copy.

No, Joe Friel's MTB Training Bible. It's like a much clearer version of the original lol

Looks good @CH.

I'm going to revisit my plan - I'm going to focus my efforts on the top end I think.

If you can cope with the workload then that's obviously going to bring the best results.

The premise of periodisation is that the top end actually doesn't take long to add (weeks rather than months). So you start off doing loads of generic training then focus tighter and tighter on your target event until your training almost perfectly reflects your A race (highest priority). By then volume has probably almost halved to accommodate the intensity.

I *think* I still need to increase the miles in my legs to lift me up to 3/4 standard which means cutting out some intensity for a bit so as not to run myself into the ground.

I'm roughly targeting a race about 8 weeks in to the Tuesday night series as my A race...
(I'll firm that up when I write the plan proper)

I'm actually thinking I need to go back to base as well for a couple of weeks.

With a huge change in seating position I can feel different muscles being worked/ the way I've been using them changing?

I tried a Z1 commute this morning, after a coffee might I add 😆 yeah I was an epic fail: https://www.strava.com/activities/858001124
I even kept behind the brompton/boris brigade!

P.s. Facebook has just reminded me of my first commuter 1 year ago today:

[b]WHAT WAS I THINKING!?!?![/b]

Cheap Ultegra 6800 cassettes and GP4000SII 23mm Tyres: https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/accessories/?category=T130#id=&sort=price&order=1

'Cheap' REYNOLDS 46 AERO C 2016 wheels there too.

Gray, that is a very good price for a very good set of wheels!

Indeed. Ideal for someone getting into racing, I'd say. I've already got some Reynolds jobbers, so not for me.

Loads of dirty cheap energy gels too if anyone wants them.

I tried a Z1 commute this morning, after a coffee might I add yeah I was an epic fail:

184 max HR is indeed a bit of a fail though 😀

Traffic lights @fifeandy 😆

@fifeandy - I was more disciplined on the way home https://www.strava.com/activities/858494665
Z1 = up to 125bpm 65% on my mio computer, which I think is impossible.
Z2 = 144 75%
Z3 = 157 82%
Z4 = 171 89%
Z5 = 189 94%
Z6 = 192 100%

At this point I've realised the above isn't correct as 100% is 198 for me, so they have all been bumped up slightly.

In other news last night I did a FTP test
305w!!! = 4.36w/kg
Very happy with that considering I commuted on the bike yesterday 🙂

You got 12th Nath.

They've got me as 34/35 which isn't right as I finished with the same group of 4 as Johnny (26th) but hey, it's not like I would have gotten my top 50% anyway by the looks of it.

Nath, try setting the zones in strava/mio to match these:
http://datacranker.com/heart-rate-zones/
If you don't already know LTHR, grabbing your average from your FTP test should get you pretty close.
Some might argue z2 extends too high on friels zones (what is used in the link), but they are still probably the most commonly used.

@CH - OFFS, I'd rather have been 15th or something, not 2 away from a point 😆

Message them mate, they may have thought you were lapped or something?

I'll check it out thanks for the link. My HRM died this morning so I was doing high cadence spins keeping it around 95-100 (when moving). Dusted the cobwebs off that's for sure!

Some might argue z2 extends too high on friels zones

Probably because z2 rides for most means riding as close to the z2/z3 boundary as possible 🙂

It does seem a little generous, though it's just an estimate based on an estimate so it's unlikely to be spot on anyway.

FWIW I find the Friel HR Zones line up surprising well with Coggan power zones [u]under ideal conditions[/u]. In winter my z2 power HR does seem to be 5 bpm higher than an equivalent summer z2 power effort. Suspect it's down to temperature regulation and that I've a general higher level of fatigue for most winter rides.

doing high cadence spins keeping it around 95-100

That's my natural cadence, but I have noticed I'm more of a spinner than most people I ride with.

That's my natural cadence, but I have noticed I'm more of a spinner than most people I ride with.

One thing I've noticed since having a power meter is how much easier I find it to produce power at cadences of 95-100 compared to at lower cadences. 250W at 80rpm feels like really hard work, much less so at 95rpm.

I struggle with high cadence when there's no resistance. I can hit 140 in a sprint but 95 generally sees me bouncing in the saddle.
I was actually changing up a gear at times in the KISS race last night to lower my cadence and help drop my HR. Probably why I got dropped with 1 mile to go 😉

My race cadence is 92/93 normally - no harm in getting it to 95 🙂

At first I was using 50/34 & 11-28, swapped to 52/36 & 12-25 - cadence remained the same.

If Canyon get my order out then I'll be running 52/36 & 11-23 at the weekend 😆

250W at 80rpm feels like really hard work, much less so at 95rpm.

it will be as you're applying more force per crank revolution to achieve the same power at lower cadences (power = torque x rpm)

https://planetcalc.com/1908/

I'm a 65kg racing snake so rely on high cadences to make my meagre power, and need to do some low cadence strength work if I really want to increase my power.

I'm a 65kg racing snake so rely on high cadences to make my meagre power, and need to do some low cadence strength work if I really want to increase my power.

This - I'm 68 kg and my average race cadence is 105. Mashing the pedals harder simply does not work for me.

I've run 50/34 and 11-25 and 11-23 (10 speed), then upgraded to 11 speed and now run 52/36 and 11-25. The 11T is not troubled with a 52 when I ride.

EDIT Average cadence for the 12 4th cat and E/123 races is 100.8 and stdev 2.4. I'm pretty consistent and never below 97. Ther harder the race, the higher the cadence creeps!

Definitely need to increase mine then! Up Brian's bend I need to drop some more gears instead of grinding up there.

I just had another look, I'm 70kg and averaging 91 over the 6 races. 🙄

I'm a 65kg racing snake so rely on high cadences to make my meagre power, and need to do some low cadence strength work if I really want to increase my power.

This, except i'm a stone lighter.
Took me a couple of seasons to realise and tie it back to theory, but looking at the Friel competency triangle, you can do as much muscular endurance work as you like, but if you don't have it underpinned by any force you are going no-where.
Added big gear intervals to my winter last year and saw some good gains come spring/summer.

Woo good news. New cassette is being delivered on Friday - just in time 🙂

I have mixed feelings about Saturday, particularly as TiRed isn't out on course.. I'm expecting a lot of silliness due to it being the last race...TT attempt anyone? 🙄

On a cadence note, this is my FTP test results from last night:
[img] [/img]

Cadence = 85.
Everytime I dropped a gear and increased my cadence the power dropped dramatically. I think this may be because of my 11-28 cassette on the turbo?

Nath-
There must be a good gear ratio calculator you can use to illustrate it? "It depends" has to be the answer for now surely? 🙂

Re Saturday- I think you've started off so well and then gradually talked yourself into a confidence problem. (Not unrelated to your Vortex of course 😉 )
Just have faith in your ability, keep your eyes up the road and start planning your positioning for the sprint a lot earlier!

Or hook up with Johnny and attack the inevitable 3 or 4 laps to go lull 😉

I vote attack with 5 to go, flat chat up the hill, then hang on! If you die, you die in a blade of glory!

Oh and the results from last week have changed?????
Do they have footage to review or something??

@CH - I can safely say I didn't touch 25/24. So tighter gears in between is a good thing for me - smoother the better! Yeah I'm probably not going to use the 11 but it'll be good to know it's there for the sprint.

Absolutely, pointlessly my confidence was shot because of the vortex - It's a bloody number, but it's been drilled into me by Zwift that it's the be all and end all. Last week, even though I'd disrupted the field endlessly even on my first outing, I'd forgotten all about that and was just focused on the apparent 20% loss in power (plus job situation). This week after that FTP im refocused and ready to roll.

It's helping talking to an old school friend (the one I mentioned is a pro bike fitter), we are near enough identical ages/weight/height. He's a Cat 2 and FTPs at 324w.

This leads me to this years targets, I have 3 simple ones;
1) Race as much as I can and enjoy it
2) Cycle 6,214 miles (10,000 km)
3) Match his FTP 😆

@weeksy we shall see 🙂

Nath- you need to be #236 from this Vid 🙂

Haha maybe at Abingdon, with all it's room, I can dream!

Lol!

I worked out what they had done with the results. They had actually pasted up the rd6 results again!!

That's a brilliant Vid !

@fifeandy using that calc and the FTPs 184 av:

[img] [/img]

149 is a much more achievable number!

Glad to be of service 🙂

What's your resting HR nathb? Your threshold is similar to mine, but my resting HR has always been on the high side for my fitness level, compared with the 'norm'. When I was 22, and really pretty fit, it was about 60, whilst my housemate with whom I used to ride was high 30s. Currently around 70. I think that HR zones that are calculated as a percentage of max or threshold HR tend to be on the low side as a result, for me, most markedly in the low zones. Back in the day I used HR zones that were based on % of HR range (i.e. resting+X%(max-resting) which made more sense.

Ultimately, I'm sure that the best thing is to harvest data and experience over a decent period riding with HR and power, and figure out in conjunction with RPE what HR zones seem to work for you. Especially at the low end. If you're trying for active recovery, and you're breathing hard or couldn't comfortably hold a conversation then you're going too hard. If you feel tired at the end or your legs feel sort then ditto. But if it feels really easy then don't worry if your HR is a bit higher than it 'should' be.

@gray

Resting 45
Threshold 184
Max 198

Facebook has just shown me this, this is a website for determining your "perfect" race.

https://www.bestbikesplit.com/public/56603

I can import it into Zwift to try it as it should replicate the hills etc.

[IMG] [/IMG]

First draft! Weekly Hours may be ambitious but not too worried as long as the ebb and flow of intensity/duration matches the plan.
I'll nail down the daily hours nearer the time.
Loads of speed drills to get that cadence up 🙂

If I race Abingdon on the 25th, it will just replace my tempo session and I may ease off on the force session the next day....

I watched Nathan Guerra doing his big gear hill repeats on Zwift last night. Holy cow! 2x45mins up to the radio mast on a SS. HR was tickling Threshold and average cadence was about 55rpm! He was hurting big time!

Facebook has just shown me this, this is a website for determining your "perfect" race.

Fine for a race long solo effort and you're happy to do an hour of over/under intervals 🙂

I think bestbikesplit is probably a good tool to help with pacing on long solo efforts like an ironman bike split, but a bit pointless for a racing lap of Hillingdon.

Yes, you are kind of tied into 40 other people's perfect races too 😀

Unless you are MrBlobby and just TT off the front 😉

First draft!

Thanks Fifeandy. Good shout- especially if the A sessions turn into another race 😉

Crikey! That looks baffling versus mine:

[img] [/img]

I think I need to do something on Wednesday nights....

I think I need to do something on Wednesday nights....

FFD to random points to see a pro MTB rider using Zwift, a singlespeed and a smart trainer to self-harm 😀

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/120669463

Only because of the codes Nath. Each letter represents a category- S are speed drills (as in leg speed). E are endurance, M are muscular endurance (Tempo, SST, Over/unders etc), F are force, A are anaerobic and P are power.
Then the numbers just correspond with a menu of different workouts in the book 🙂

fifeandy
Is there a Mrs Nath?

Yup - it's her rest day from the gym on Wednesdays too so I've got no chance. 😆

@CH Just noticed all my notifications on FB haha you nutter.

That looks baffling versus mine

+1 🙂

My current plan... Two 4x8 sessions a week. The rest is z2 (and maybe one z1 ride) with a rough TSS target for each week. With 2 big volume weeks / 1 low volume week structure. That is it for Jan and Feb. Simples 🙂

Given how far you are ahead of me Nath, I don't feel qualified to comment on your plan 😀

Given how far you are ahead of me MrBlobby I don't feel qualified to comment on your plan 😀

Hmm. Pattern developing here 😀

I always find the simpler a training plan is to the follow the more likely you are to follow it, but then again up to a few weeks ago all my training has been unplanned ad hoc stuff 😆

I'm concentrating on SST (sweet spot) training until Abingdon is over, get my FTP up a little before giving back the PM. 😆

To be honest, you can replace many of the suggested workouts with stuff you already do but it's the order that's important. So if you look, you never work the same system on consecutive days and never do three hard days on the trot to allow for the all important recovery. (Hence Fifeandy's suggested amendments).

The weekly tables come next (the ones I posted a pic of) and they really illustrate the up-down polarisation of the work. So a long quite-hard session may be followed the next day by a short harder one or a longer easier one but never by another long quite-hard one. IYSWIM 🙂

You want each day to be black or white or else they all end up grey 😉

I see 😛

(I had to google IYSWIM 😆 )

Been offered a Ultegra PM at £304 by the company I'm renting from (well technically £454 as they have a £150 deposit from me haha)... Arghh so tempted..

Been offered a Ultegra PM at £304 by the company I'm renting from (well technically £454 as they have a £150 deposit from me haha)... Arghh so tempted..

Send it back. The Vortex gives better numbers 🙂

+1

My current plan... Two 4x8 sessions a week. The rest is z2 (and maybe one z1 ride) with a rough TSS target for each week. With 2 big volume weeks / 1 low volume week structure. That is it for Jan and Feb. Simples

Got to say over the years my plans have evolved more towards this style rather than the detail CH has, but that's mostly a by product of crappy weather and life getting in the way. If i worked part time and lived somewhere warm i'd probably be more structured.

Currently my plan for Feb/March is: 1* big gear session, 1* lumpy SS ride, 1* 2hr z2, 1* longer z1/2 and 1* short z1 working to a 3 weeks on, 1 week easy pattern.
I no longer assign rides to specific days of the week - i do the hard sessions when i'm fresh or forced onto the indoor trainer, the easy sessions when i'm hurting and the rest days when i'm tired. If I get to the end of the month and i've completed 90% of the planned rides and 90% of completed rides have been good quality then i'm happy.

mrblobby - Member

Send it back. The Vortex gives better numbers

Haha, yeah I'd imagine I could become a domestique with a FTP of 364W 5.2w/kg 8)

For me, you kind of do the hard work when you create the plan. Then each day, you can relax knowing that (assuming you trust the plan 😉 ) you're doing the right thing.
With Strava and Zwift- it's easy to get paranoid that you're not doing enough!! 😀

Nath- buy it!! You know you want it 🙂 It will help incentivise your job hunt 😀

The wedding in 2018 is doing that buddy! 😆

Points are in, there's a bit of a pattern forming for me here:
[img] [/img]

Prediction for Saturday: 11th 🙂

p.s. I've just been browsing on our mutual friends history, he comes across as a strong rider, I think he needs to sit in more than me!
[img] [/img]

Yes! Loads of pics of him off the front but he gets frustrated that nobody will work with him.

It's quite scary how hard it is for you two to get points- I'm not going anywhere soon me thinks 😀

Going into spring i'd recommend adding some fast paced group rides in to those training plans.

A good chaingang is great training but also a lot of fun. The midweek ones starting up again when the clocks go forward is one of the things i look forward to all winter.

@Omar Little- it's definitely something I'd consider trying out.

So who else is racing @ Abingdon this week then?

I did the SST (short) 50 min workout this evening - felt very good, hard but not too hard.

FTP set at 305, so 5 mins warmup. 4x sets of 5 mins @ 295 & 5 mins @ 270, then a 5 min cool down.

Definitely going to do it once a week going forward.

I've got a snow symbol showing for tomorrow's weather 😯

Tomorrow's race rubber... 🙂

[img] [/img]

I think this would be more handy:

[img] [/img]

😆

Tomorrows objective = stay upright!!

^^ would go nicely with CH's helmet.

So who else is racing @ Abingdon this week then?

Me. (titanium bike, Maybush CC kit, day-glo yellow overshoes and gloves, probably at the back)

I live about 10miles away and it has started gently snowing here, so little chance of overheating tomorrow (positive outlook . . .)

Just been out for a spin up that way and it is indeed snowing 😀

ooo prizes:

Dear Nath

Well, this is the final ever Imperial Winter Series, wow, those 11 years flew by!

As we have always done, after the final race of the day, will follow the prize presentation in the club house.

If you race in any of the races E12, 3rd or 4th cat and you will be at the presentation then you'll be in the Lucky Riders Free draw. Great prizes (see photo). You must be at the presentation in person to collect or another wins it!

See note attached to your singon sheet on the desk.

Yours

Lucy Collins
See you at the circuit.

[img] [/img]

A box of "protect and lube" as well as an ass saver, nice 🙂

Ok Tiim! Hopefully meet you there 🙂 I'll be in my TFC kit onboard my Triban 5.

They've hired a commercial road sweeper and have done their best to clear the problematic flints- can't ask for more than that I guess.

Looking forward to hearing about Abingdon (and the strava scouting too!)

Good luck everyone for tomorrow!!

P.s. Can't believe you ditched me CH 😆

I don't think I'm much help mate 🙂 Stay positive and focused and you may just get the points you're after!

I've had swings of uncertainty all week- I was just learning a few faces and of course the circuit itself but at the same time, I'm looking forward to some new challenges.

Let's see what tomorrow brings 😀

Brrrrrrrr

It's probably the warmest race yet 😀

A bit dull and grey perhaps but above freezing and not too windy (he's says from the sheltered car park 😀 ).

I'm still in bed 😆

Good luck CH!

You'll be home and a race report published before I even set off for Hillingdon, could have done both! 😛

Lol! It was fun!

When I say they were doing 18mph in that video, what I didn't respect was that they were also doing 400w into a gale force wind!!!!!

It was a bit mucky out but nothing a bit of adrenaline couldn't cure.
One crash- hope everyone was ok!!

More later.....

Abingdon Race Report pt1 :

Preparation started last night. Once the bike was given a quick clean of Zwift sweat with wet wipes and had it's IRL wheel re-fitted, it was time to think about me!

I felt rubbish yesterday- not bristling with arrogant confidence as I'd expect to be for a race 'peak'. So elected not to ride at all.

Despite being around evens for the days calories, I decided to force some extra toast and cereals down before bed as the pattern of pre-race eating I had been used to was obviously now out of sync with the 9am start.

With no past experiences to help with visualisation, I drifted off to sleep running through a fairly generic race-day plan in my head.

I woke up just before my 6:15 alarm and snoozed it without waking everyone. Then drifted back to sleep until the 06:25 one by which time everybody was awake anyway!

With my plan already in my head, I zoned out and went through the motions-
Coffee!
Toast
Cereals
Dogs (Walk and feed not extra breakfast 😉 )
Set car running
Clothes
Bike
Stacker box of bike paraphernalia!
Go!!!

I managed to get a Rice Crispy square down my neck as well as a bottle of lucizade sport- just to top the sugar and hydration up 🙂

Arriving at 07:59, I soaked up the atmosphere. It's bleak! Harsh and bleak in fact. Hillingdon, with its welcoming club house and buzz of kids activities pre-race is positively cozy in comparison.
Cyclists were already warming up but looked out of scale and lonely in the vast surroundings!

I'm sure 99% of the great atmosphere at Hillingdon is down to Lucy Collins. It's a hard act to follow and Abingdon felt more like the CX races I've done.
People more focused, less welcoming, more official! The sign in was painless though and the facilities warm but very basic.
A few guys said morning but there seemed to be a lot more teams and egos on display.

I pinned my number onto my TFC jersey, swapped it with the long sleeved BTwin one I was wearing, and set out to warm up.
I had tights, bib-shorts, my new shoes, overshoes, arm warmers, short sleeved jersey, rainshell and fleece snood on to warm up in- as well as my tinted visor.

I've learned to ignore others whilst warming up. Their's is irrelevant to yours!!
Hitting the long straight I was immediately knocked for six by the stiff Northerly wind!
Conditions had deteriorated since my optimism of earlier and I was doing 12mph. At 260w 😀
Hmmmmm.

The race starts from the HQ which is almost 3/4 mile away from the circuit. So I did one more lap, then headed back.
I decided to switch a few things up.
My visor was ditched in favour of clear glasses and I stripped off my jersey and arm warmers before putting both my long and short sleeved jerseys on.
I also kept my snood on.
Lining up behind the pace car- I spotted Tiim up ahead and prepared to go!
Race time!!