[Closed] So – I broke my Jones Spaceframe part 2

Richard at Enigma here. Thanks for the positive comments all. We are busy making our own frames, and taking on less repairs, but we try to help where possible. Some jobs are just not economical but if you would like to email some pics to sales@enigmabikes.com we will see if anything can be done. Cheers

Great reply. Maybe JJ should take heed of this sort of response. Cost nothing to be polite, offer help but not commit to anything. But he chose rudeness and a brush off.

i would have though current Jones frame owners would be the most likely people to buy another one or at least recommend them to others - this sort of company probably works on word of mouth advertising quite a lot so this is a major mistake for him to make.

Op. When you bought the frame what was your understanding of the warranty ? Genuinely interested as there doesn't seem to be any info regarding it.

Thanks everyone here for your support and understanding. Especially Biff and Richard at Enigma for their offers.

In the meantime I found a motorsport frame builder, Bakker Frame Bouw in Heerhugowaard in my own country(holland) with a lot of experience in ti and bicycles.

They will do the weld job on my frame for about €70! Turnaround time about a week.

My frameset is a Merlin made one that I bought used years ago and enjoyed every minute of it. I sold my brand new Moots mootoX to fund it. The moment I threw my legs around it I knew I had made the right choice. I know it is weird to buy a bike that you never tested or ridden but with the Jones it became instantly clear that the geometry was perfect.

I was not gentle for it, took it to the Ardennes and Alpes but that's what Jeff does himself as he let us believe.

So on my last ride I heard this clicking sound while riding through an easy trail and stopped to see where it came from. Then I saw that there was a vertical crack in the seat tube. Of course I stopped riding immediately and examined it closer. Now in the Merlin made Jones ti frames there is this alloy sleeve glued to the inside of the ti seat tube and that got unfixed and 'moved' in the frame. I think that is what caused the tube to break.

In my opinion that is in fact a design failure but Merlin is no longer there and Jeff does not back it up.

So yes I am still a fan of Jeff Jones work and would recommend his bikes to anyone but I would advice to ask him about standing behind his products new and used.

Thanks

 I would advice to ask him about standing behind his products new and used.

You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of bicycle manufacturers that will warranty a bike / frame that you've bought 2nd hand.

I bought a dekerf 2nd hand. When it needed a repair (ovalised head tube), I didn't even consider contacting Chris Dekerf.  It was second hand (bought at a year old and mint, though)  shipping it to Canada and back would have been bonkers.  And bonkers expensive.

"My frameset is a Merlin made one that I bought used..."

If you're not the original owner I'm not sure why you expect any warranty support? You can be pleasantly surprised if you get it but almost no-one sells bikes with a transferable warranty.

I knew I had no warranty and I did not expert him to send me a new frame or repair it for free.

I only asked nicely if he could repair my frame when I sent it on my expense and that he could take the time for it I was in no hurry..

Used frame? OP, you should've mentioned that in the first post to be fair to Jeff and for context. Maybe he didn't reply to you in the way you expected but we only have one side of a story here. Not speculating or anything though. Maybe he just had a bad day.

I've dealt with Jeff over a similar but different point related to my Jones. He was a great guy to buy from and to deal with and I bought a second Jones a year later. I get bikes at trade and design+get made my own here and there so the level of respect I have for Jeff and how much I enjoy riding his bikes is no kool aid etc. It's just a great bike that suits me so well, and we all make vfm calls on different basis. Just my experience, that's all.

Agree that not mentioning it was second hand puts a complete different context on things. In fact you could say that 10% off offer is generous given you bought with no rights second hand.

Jeff responded to me believing I bought it new and was the original owner, I could not even get so far as to tell him I am the second owner..

He rattled from start that the warranty was not for live and that everybody thinks ti is forever and that companies gave the riders/buyers the wrong impression by mentioning live long warranties.

So my frame being second hand played no role here. Besides that I think he should be open for information about construction/design failures in his top model maybe even to learn from it.

So you've had it for 8 years? When was the frame made?

And another thing: why ask me to send my frame on my expense for him to keep while ordering a brand new frame with 10% discount? Thats ridiculous.

I still agree with the op.

A bit of courtesy to a customer with one of your bikes, original owner or not, costs nothing.

Also op wasn't trying for a free repair, just a repair that he was willing to pay for!

I only asked nicely if he could repair my frame

I'm not sure he'd have been able to repair it.

When my spaceframe cracked it went straight back to Merlin then came straight back to me.

When the fork cracked he just sent me another one.

I always found him easy to deal with and on the couple of times I met him he couldn't have been more helpful.

Seems a bit unfair to make this post about a second hand 8 year old frame without saying that to start with...

If you’re not the original owner I’m not sure why you expect any warranty support?

When you buy a nearly new car the warranty is transferred as long as the maintenance has been done blah blah...

there should be no issue with transferring the warranty for manufacturing defects between owners on a bike.

The don’t be a dick rule should be in full force. If you don’t know the history and bought cheap don’t expect too much.

The frameset did cost me about €2500 then

In the past 12 years or so I bought a lot of Jones stuff, 2 ti bars, 2 alloy ones, a six speed cassette, grips, framebags etc.

If you’re not the original owner I’m not sure why you expect any warranty support? You can be pleasantly surprised if you get it but almost no-one sells bikes with a transferable warranty.

Calibre warrantied a second hand bike for me 😀

That was a £600 bike.....

For an extremely expensive frame, I’d want the very best customer service. I wouldn’t expect a new frame after 8 years, but maybe an offer to repair (or repair at cost) or at least to recommend a manufacturer who could do it.

Jones frames aren’t my cup of tea, but its service like this that puts me off bikes like evil etc,

Maybe exposure customer service could give them some pointers!

joop wrote

I was really surprised about his almost overworked and grumpy reaction, I have spoken to him over the last 10 years or so a few times and he was always talkative and friendly and took the time to explain things. Now he even said ‘can we end this phone call now?’

To mis quote Jeff,  can we end this thread now?

Seeing as you are trying to bad name a bike brand for failing to warranty an 8yr old s/h frame.  I'm siding with Jeff now

Op bought the frame 8 years ago, he’s not said how old it was when he bought it. Perhaps wherever he bought it from will warranty it. After all €2500 is a lot of money etc etc.

tomhoward wrote

Op bought the frame 8 years ago, he’s not said how old it was when he bought it. Perhaps wherever he bought it from will warranty it. After all €2500 is a lot of money etc etc.

He failed to tell us a lot in his initial post, I have a feeling that as usual, there maybe more to this than we have been told. After yrs of hiding in the classifieds he comes out bad mouthing a brand. Had he been a regular poster here I might have a different attitude to his post.

After yrs of hiding in the classifieds he comes out bad mouthing a brand

So he has, lots of wanted ads for Jones stuff. Have you bought anything new from Jeff OP?

This whole thread OP FFS !!! If your going to have a moan tell the whole story or just STFU.

Ah, the stw pitchforks. I'm surprised it took this long.

Some of you really should learn to read before getting the pitchforks out. OP never asked for ‘warranty’, he just asked the bloke who built his expensive (to the original owner and probably relatively speaking to him too) frame of he’d have it back for a repair to be done. Was happy to pay but thought that would be best place to send it since he did make it.

The reply from Jeff was the issue, both in language and content.

The offer of 10% off a new one isn’t that bad imo (apart from the ‘return the frame’ bit) given the fact it’s a second hand ‘old’ frame. So it’s really about how unhelpful Jeff was, despite the carefully crafted persona which, lets face it, is a part of the seduction of the brand. To discover that one of the things that attracted you is actually just marketing bollocks is likely to be a bit upsetting.

It would have probably been better in the interests of full disclosure if the OP had said it was 2nd hand but in the context of what he was asking for it’s not absolutely critical information.

100% agree Matt and i'm siding completely with the OP. Sure if he'd asked for it free as a warranty, then i'm with the Jones bloke, but the OP never, he just asked the bloke who built the frame to fix it and charge him, that's all.

Whether it's new owner or first owner has no relevance here.

he just asked the bloke who built the frame to fix it and charge him, that’s all.

It was built by Merlin not Jeff...

I assumed from the way it was phrased, they were one and the same. 🙂

You'd be wrong then.😉

if the OP had said it was 2nd hand

what if it was 3rd hand and a 14yrs old 2004 frame?

if you can be arsed the look back in STW history i maybe putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 but it fits in with posting history.

The first Merlin spaceframes were made around  07.

I only know this as I bought the first one they built for Jeff in 08 and it was around a year old when I got it.

The reply from Jeff was the issue, both in language and content.

Given that every other experience I've read or heard of people talking with Jeff has been positive and complimentary, I think we do have to consider that the issue might actually have been that the OP was a bit of an arse on the phone.

Not saying definitely, maybe Mr Jones was having a bad day, bit stressed with ramping the business up and short of time.  But on one side, we have Jeff Jones, well reputed nice guy, helpful on the phone, on the other side, we have a guy who no-one knows from Adam unless they've bought or sold to him on the classifieds.

And if English isn’t the OP’s first language it’s very easy for one or both parties to misjudge the tone of the other person during a(n international) phone call. Similar to this, it took me a while to realise that every single German customer of my business wasn’t rather rude - it’s just how they tend to write in English.

True, the Dutch are pretty direct!  But then so are Americans?

On that note, one of my favourite near- perfect translations was from a French colleague who would push for updates, saying "I am being hardly chased by the customer"

Might well be two sides to it, but I think the OPs comments very much apply.

For a 5k frameset I'd very much expect the supplier to take any failures seriously (even if it is secondhand). Given the comments in here, and the apparent high failure rate, alongside a complete refusal to carry out any kind of repair, I personally wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. I'd be more than displeased if I bought a 5 grand frameset that failed within 8 years. And in the context of the topic, the fact that it's secondhand is quite irrelevant.

On that note, one of my favourite near- perfect translations was from a French colleague who would push for updates, saying “I am being hardly chased by the customer”

My Spanish wife thought it was 'I can't be asked' (for I don't have time to do that at the moment) for quite a while..