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In fact alot of work.
Bought from Evans Halshaw, its a porsche boxter S. Had a few issues with it that in fairness they have fixed, but thought I'd take it for a full health check to a porsche specialist for quick once over.
in no particular order....
-One of the brake pipes is badly corroded. To be fair this was an advisory on the mot it just had, but the chap thought it needed replaced asap (costing 400 quid)
-Air con goosed due to pipe damage and condensors breaking up
-various lights not working (including a side light)
-All 6 ingnition coils are cracked- although car still runs fine (apparently these will be 350 to replace)
-Cat heat sheild is loose
-2 Exhaust silencer clamps are missing
-Rear Disks are corroded although still break ok
-Spoiler switch to operate rear spoiler is missing
Now I wasn't expecting a perfect car as it has 60k on the clock, but surely some of this is unacceptable. What would you feel I'd be justified in complaining about? Or do I just suck it up and see as I knew what I was getting into when I bought a car like that.. Given I bought it from a dealer I was hoping this wouldn't be the case!
How long have you had it?
1 week. done 100 miles
Is it on finance? If so take it back and tell them you don't want it.
I understand that the Evans Halshaw warranty is shitte so go for giving them the car back and getting them to source some sort of replacement. Recently bought a Cooper s convertible from JCT600 only to discover a week later that the previous owner had bodged a roof repair. They took the car back no quibbles and found a replacement car within a week, sadly not another Cooper S, but something I was happy with as an alternative.
I wouldn't have thought that you would have much redress on the main issues, unless it was sold on the basis of an EH engineer's report giving it a clean bill of health in these areas.
If it crops up as an advisory on MOT then it's going to need doing sooner rather than later.
.
In my dad's experience Porsche garages and some 'specialists' tend to exaggerate on what is needed..
I would get a specialists opinion first after my experience with Porsche main dealers. I had such bad service I should of sued.
They may exaggerate but things like corroded brake pipes should be taken seriously. I had two go on my old car luckily they didn't go when I was driving along but on the brake test ramp at MOT time.
Wasn't a main dealer, its the guy up the road who specilises in them and ferraris.
Surely the lights, the missing switch and the ignition coils should all be fixed?
Don't mess about, you'll never really be happy if its way wrong now.
Gen up on the law and rights that you have and take it back and ask for a refund if thats your right.
Walk away and start again if yiou can.
[i]Now I wasn't expecting a perfect car as it has 60k on the clock, but surely some of this is unacceptable. What would you feel I'd be justified in complaining about? Or do I just suck it up and see as I knew what I was getting into when I bought a car like that.. Given I bought it from a dealer I was hoping this wouldn't be the case! [/i]
When you say [b]I knew what I was getting into when I bought a car like that[/b], do you mean a Porsche or a used (abused?) Porsche?
reject it
don't piss around, don't delay - put it in writing that based on the independent report the car was not of merchantable quality and that you are rejecting it for a full refund.
any credit card involvement (eg. for the deposit?) - it could be your lifesaver!
Cracked coil packs are fairly standard on Boxster/Cayman/911s. Of the four cars I test drove 3 had flat spots in the rev range above 5k rpm, all had damaged CPs.
Brake line - meh, a non Porsche item will be around £50.
Cat heat shield could be a problem...depending upon the model, you might need a new cat as they're integrated and a only come loose when corroded.
Aircon should've been tested before purchase, and the missing switch...well, you must've noticed, no?
If it was cheap, keep it. If it was market value, send it back. Coil packs should be replaced IMO.
Wont lie, the I'm totally mechanically inept,but know a few folks that know there way round a car.
It doesn't look like the coils are a massive job to replace, but is a corroded pipe a job you can do at home? The quoted cost was largely for labour rather than anything else.
As for the missing switch, its under the main dash and if im honest I didn't even notice it.
So why did you buy it? Most things on that list would have been notices when you inspected the car before handing any money over right?
Easy to say after you have bought it ,but getting an AA type report first would seem like a good idea in future ?
Sounds like a fun weekend. You wanted a hobby didn't you?
60k is nothing!!
well at least the RMS isn't leaking ......gotta be a first 🙂
imho if you aren't mechanically inclined I'd bang it back and get something easier to live with.
If things are actually broken then you should be able to get Evans halshaw to repair under warranty, however if things are just in poor condition,but not actually broken , then I suspect you're out of luck. With anything that is regarded as a consumable ( brakes, exhaust, clutch,tyres) then your out of luck unless it was described as having for example new brake disks all round.
-air con - if its not working then get them to fix on warranty, if its just in poor condition but working then its a bit tough
-lights not working - fix under warranty
-cracked coils, but engineworking fine - tough I'm afraid
-cat heatsheild loose- exhaust is wear and tear consumable- tough, ditto for 2 missing clamps
-rear disks - consumables - tough
- spoileR switch missing - fix under warranty.
-brake pipe - you'll probably be able to get that done under warranty, especially if they sold it with a new MOT.
Its a hard lesson to learn, but consumables need to be spotted and negotiated for before purchase.
To be honest, that list is not that bad really for a 60k mile car ( you don't say how old, but I'm guessing 6years?). Its kind of what I would expect a car of that mileage and age to need.
Just a thought, where is the ind specailist based?. Just wondering if its the guy i bought a car from last year, Top bloke, i really liked him allthough i was only there an hour or so!. Genuinly honest etc and so won`t muck you around... 😛
But 60k for any German car is nothing....I`d send it back. 😥
The air con is the most expensive part of that. I'll always walk away from a car where that doesn't work at its a sure sign other things have been skimped!
It'll cost a fortune to repair and will cause you no end of issues and seriously devalues the whole car!
Depends on what you paid, but specialist will be scrutinise closely. It's a second-hand car, and not all that needs to be fixed at once. Brake pipe is a cheap part, but depends what's in the way. Maybe overkill to fix some relatively minor things, but why not go for a new exhaust - boxsters can sound great.
You might want to consider an aftermarket warranty, given that the air con and coil packs could fail fully soon. but read the small print to make sure it covers what you need.
But you don't buy a Porsche (of any age, but especially an old one) and expect to run it on a ford focus budget.
If you got it at a good price and can afford the repairs it *may* be worth doing. The Boxster S is a cracking car and I'd have one again in a heartbeat (when the kids have left home of course). I say *may* because of the half dozen or so that I test drove only one gave me the confidence it had been looked after and wouldn't cause me issues. The others just felt...unloved.
Ask yourself this: if you knew you could get your money back with no quibbles, would you?
[i]60k is nothing!! [/i]
It obviously is in this case.
Just to add, cars often get traded in because they need a few bits and pieces sorting out, in this case, a few bulbs, corroded brake disks and a rattling\corroded heat shield were probably the main drivers.
A main Porsche dealer would probably sort all these out before then reselling at a decent profit, in this case it sounds like EH have just sold it straight on without any rectification.
I traded my m3 in earlier this year, it was 5 years old, 50k miles, I knew it needed new brake disks, new Tyres, possibly a new exhaust, and god knows whatever else that hadn't immediately made itself known in my ownership, I wouldn't consider it an abused car, just a typical 5 year old performance car.
50 p spoiler switch is missing because the spoiler doesnt work.
How old is it??
Need to go in with your eyes wide open- colleague bought an 06 BoxsterS from Lookers 18 months ago for 11k - good job it came with a decent warranty as it burnt through 11.5k of warranty work in 6 months - he then sold it immediately after the warranty finished as he was terrified that the rms was starting to let go
Those are all fairly common issues with used Boxsters/911s (except the missing spoiler switch) and can cost a good few grand to put right, making your apparent bargain suddenly look quite expensive. I would only buy one from a reputable Porsche Indy (eg. 911 Virgin, RSJ, Paragon) or selective Porsche main dealers for a newer car. You pay a fair bit more up front but the cars are well prepped and warranties actually worth having.
Boxsters are amazing value for money, but neglected ones are an expensive pain in the arse.
Hands up, I'm a car dealer, I also only do porsche, some of your problems are totally unacceptable, but all used cars will have some degree of wear such as the coil packs.
You also need to know that a lot of places see inspections as a way of extracting money from those who are vulnerable.
But any car that left the dealer with lights not working or mot issues that have not been sorted and your in for trouble, reject it and give them the report and see where you get.
HTH
[u] etc.[/u]I would only buy one from a reputable Porsche Indy (eg. 911 Virgin, [s]RSJ[/s], Paragon
Fixed that for you
HTH
Competitor are they? 😉
Actually went there once to look at a car and wasn't that impressed with it. They said it was fully prepped to main dealer (or better) standard but I picked up on several obvious faults including a badly re-sprayed rear quarter. Walked away. But they do seem to have a good reputation on the Porsche forums who are a notoriously harsh bunch. How about JZM then?
JZM are good but pricey, you pays your money add infermam.
Main point is that it's not really a good idea to buy a Porsche from a mainstream garage like EH.
So question for 2 unfit to ride...
What would you say is the bare minimum I should be demanding? I thought the light, the spoiler switch, the air con (although as far as I can tell it works just fine) and the cat shield.
Its a fairly old car(2003 plate) but looks in lovely condition. Not entirely sure what I could have spotted prior to buying, as everything on it (other than the spoiler and the side light) works just grand.
Tempted to hand it back but it is a lovely car. It also came with a 2 year warrenty, so hopefully if the aircon totally packs up or the engine explodes I'll not be left high and dry.
Having said that, I had factored in 1k a year maintanance costs as I didn't expect it to be like new. I paid 8k for it, which whilst not cheap didn't appear to bad for a car of that mileage with fsh. TBH if I hadn't taken it to the specialist for a full check over I'd be perfectly happy with it!
Well if the ac works then it's a used car with some wear to the components, anything mot related should be done,also the cat heatshield should be repaired, not sure the spoiler switch is an issue as long auntie spoiler works.
A 11yr old car is always going to have ongoing small issues on the to-do list.
What I'd purely focus on is the 'big' items. Get these sorted and start to enjoy your car.
For instance I bought an 08 Forester from a main dealer (Mitsubishi not Subaru) a couple of months ago. So far I've paid £45 for an update remap tune and the offside electric wingmirror has a mind of its own (so I've pulled the fuse for now). This I'll get sorted myself from a scrappy or clean up the electrics. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the car in anyway. Anything major- gearbox, engine etc - STRAIGHT back to the dealer. Anything else is wear and tear IMO.
at 11 years old, that list is no great surprise, and really doesnt sound that bad.
Get the actual broken bits (lights, spoiler switch) and the MOT advisory (brake pipe) fixed under warranty.
Put the consumables (brake discs) down to experience.
And expect the the worn out but still working items (air con/cat heat shield,coil packs) to fail in the next couple of years along with some other stuff that you dont yet know about, it is after all an 11 year old car, things are going to stop working.
I wouldnt expect the EH warranty to be worth the paper its written on, but that could just be me being a massive cynic.
in which world does a brake pipe cost 400 quid?
depends where it's placed - as said above.
heat shields coming loose on these is common.
even and after market exhaust is >1k IIRC.
nice cars though. you have to remember the level of performance you're getting.
the world where its a porsche item likely jamie.
some copper pipe , a flaring tool , the correct fittings and a pipe bender would be my solution BUT factory it would not be and things like that are important to porsche people.
in which world does a brake pipe cost 400 quid?
The Porsche world.
There's one on the 911 (996 anyway) that will cost more that that if done by a dealer/specialist that runs up and over and around the back of the engine.
What's been listed are common issues with this age of Porsche, did a lot of research earlier in the year when looking at "cheap" 996's. For instance AC rads - one ether side at the front - are very vulnerable to incoming debris, coil packs are a consumable, clutches may not last and IMS bearings can be the death of the car.
Easy option is to to get them to take it back and buy one from a specialist or have an inspection done before buying it. You could try getting them to address some of the points, but unless it was dirt cheap it probably won't be worth it. At a guess a 2003 Boxster with 60k on must have been around 9k?
There are enough decent Porsche specialists around that there will be one near you.
Boxsters are common enough that there are plenty to choose from too.
The Porsche world.
Tell me about it.
Just had the horns replaced on my Cayenne Turbo... £360! I'd have diy'd it, but you need to take the bumper off.
Need to do my prop shaft too, porsche part? £750. Non porsche part? £300! Same warranty on both!
If the car's ruinning fine at the moment then you're SOL if you think the warranty will replace things now that *might* fail in the future !
I'd get the coil packs sorted now before one fails and leaves you stranded though. Go on, ask me how I know 🙁 Do all six for peace of mind. They're not too expensive, I'm sure it was £150-ish for a set when I did the ones on my 996. And an easy enough DIY job if you've got a socket set.
That is not a big list on a 2003 if a decent specialist has looked over it. The brake line cost is probably because it runs over the gearbox.
If the car is good in other areas, decent tyres, brakes, real service history (bills) then I'd keep it and get those bits fixed.
thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm inclined to get them to fix the broken stuff, do the coils myself (or get my dad to do them more likely) and just run with the other stuff being realistic that it may need replaced further down the line. Aircon works ok for now anyhow.
only thing i think i'll struggle to argue is the brake pipe which they did tell me about prior to buying. I stupidly thought that this may be a couple of hunderd quid in a year prior to the next MOT, but it seems that its much worse than they let on and needs doing sooner.
Had a look for one from a specialist in the area, but couldn't find anything remotely close to what I could afford for what is a second car. Lots second hand, but i'm not convinced that they wouldn't have similar issues given the price range I'm looking at. Other than the afformentined issues the car is actually in great condition
Sundayjumper - did you buy genuine porsche coils or aftermarket?
OP when can I book in for a trim and wash?
worth phoning a Porsche dealer for parts as sometimes they are cheaper than elsewhere (not always though!)
OEM coil packs are Beru, be careful as there are some fake Chinese Bosch parts around.
Agree with the specialists comments and buying second hand usually involves lots of journeys/inspections.
Best place to buy these cars is from other enthusiasts on places like 911uk and boxa net forums.
Anyway, congrats, imo the Boxster is the best sportcar you can buy at any price!
Not entirely sure what I could have spotted prior to buying
You said yourself you are not mechanically minded but know blokes who are. Next time you buy a used car, take one of them with you or pay for a 3rd party inspection.
what tootall said.
just be glad you didnt buy my old frontera.
i sold it spares or repairs a month or so ago for buttons. just seen it forsale with the same issues i sold it with for 1200 quid. mot is up in december it WILL NOT pass. Some saps going to pay good money for that :S
OP I needed a new front sidelight last MOT, it was £7 (I was embarrassed they spent 1hr going to get it but they wouldn't accept more money/tip for doing so). 60k miles is not much, how old is the car to have all that corrosion on brake pipes ? Discs do corrode but if they passed the MOT they will probably be fine. Just do more hard braking, this scrubs off the rust pretty quickly 😉 I cannot comment on the coils. If it runs fine and fuel economy is OK (mid-20's and up) then what's to change ?
Porsche's are very well built cars with quality components. In 7 years I have averaged £250 pa in servicing costs.
Sounds like you're stretching yourself financially to afford the car, both to buy and run.
I just bought a car. Was looking at 2 seater convertibles. Looked at Boxsters, S2000, Z4s, Elises etc. Had £10k to spend.
Spent £2k on a top spec 2002 MX5 Sport with 29k miles on it.
List of things wrong with it:
1 alloy wheel corroded - will be £50 to get fixed
1 speaker not working - £20 to replace, or maybe I just need to sort a loose connection. Not checked it out yet.
Great car - was powersliding around in it last night and not really fussed if I bumped it off the kerb....
Something to be said for not spending your max budget.
car is 11 years old ime 10 years is a good innings for a brake pipe on a car - especially one routed up and over the gear box where its getting heat to accelerate that lovely corrosion.
"If it runs fine and fuel economy is OK (mid-20's and up) then what's to change ?"
when the coil fails - the car stops , you will need recovered. fix it.
not really fussed if I bumped it off the kerb....
You will be when it pokes a driveshaft through the diff 😉
plenty mx5 spares availible at the scrap yard though. never have seen a boxster there.
nearly picked up a friends 91 MX5 soft top needing new outer sills last week for 200 quid, just couldnt give up the space/time to fit the sills. Shame as the rest of the motor was sound.
cars 11 years old so not exactly a surprise about the pipes. Neither lots of the other stuff really. I wouldn't expect a 45k car for 8k to perfect, but I would expect it to be MOT worthy and all the switches to work!
I bought the car as a bit of a toy, it won't get used much and the costs of repairing everything isn't going to put me on the breadline. Its just a bit of a bummer that I'm having to pay for it all now.
Looks like I need to spend a grand on it to get it in tip top condition, which isn't a disaster I guess given cars from specialists of similar age are around the 10 k mark.
I seem to remember that the mk2 mx5 was the one to avoid?
They have double skinned chassis rails that trap moisture and rot from the inside out. By the time its visible the chassis rails are orange dust right through!
Sundayjumper - did you buy genuine porsche coils or aftermarket?
Beru from ECP. I've just looked and they're currently £28.74 from carparts4less and you get £15 off for spending over £100, making a set of six £157.44 delivered. My indy (Northway, who are excellent, btw) use Beru so I'm happy with that.
plenty mx5 spares availible at the scrap yard though. never have seen a boxster there.
They are all at my local scrappy, it's loaded with Porsches, Ferraris and TVRs.
I keep meaning to take a pic.
Actually, if you place two orders, 4 + 2, you can get £15 + £5 off, making it £152.44 😀
I'll defend the MX5- really only if you don't check and clear the drain holes. Its fine otherwise. Just needs attention. You CAN replace the sills worsecase. The rot spreads to the rear wheel arch internally but only if you've parked it under trees and never done anything to it IMO
awesome, thanks sunday
plenty mx5 spares availible at the scrap yard though
Seen how many were sold over its lifetime?
who slagged the mx5 hora ?
The coil packs are easy enough to replace yourself but be very careful with the bolts which can get a bit corroded.
I had one round off on me but it was fine as It was easy enough to get it out with a torx an a hammer but access to the others wouldn't be fun...(it wasn't me being heavyhanded it just wasn't in good shape to start wiv)
Hopefully you haven't bought the coils yet as the delivered option with topcashback from ECP is worth having (10%).