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Two often conflicting schools of thought i find....
One requires a "mini manual" - Pull back on the bars and weight through the feet, the other seems to be the "mini hop" pull back on the bars (as the first option) but then also de-weight the feet.
I'm a bit more of the second one. What's your preference?
Surely it depends on the drop?
For 'normal' trail-centre drops I tend to just lift the front (possibly with a pedalstroke if I'm not going fast enough) but for bigger ones you might want to 'pre-jump' it. But as I said, it depends on the drop IME.
Second option. Means both wheels land at the same time
No pulling or mini anything. I just move my weight back on the bike and that's it. Simples.
badly 🙁
Depends if it's a jumpy drop or a droppy drop really. But i guess in the logic of the question i think..... I don't.... i forget it and find an alternative.
Neither - you use a push to get the front wheel up.
Surely it depends on the drop?
Fair point - I'm talking about any drop where a drop in the front wheel would cause an OTB moment. So possibly 3 ft+. And nothing where you get a pacey run up as speed often hides all manner of sins 🙂
Just lick the stamp and send it.
Neither – you use a push to get the front wheel up.
Yes, as per a manual as i said- you still have to pull the bars up though.
Big old tug on the bars. Respect the send.
No pulling or mini anything. I just move my weight back on the bike and that’s it. Simples.
Consider the physics
I would often unweight the back wheel a bit, but more so it doesn't kick me over the bars than a "jump".
I'm definitely more of a "drop" kind of a guy than a "jump" kind of guy.
Two often conflicting schools of thought i find….
One requires a “mini manual” – Pull back on the bars and weight through the feet, the other seems to be the “mini hop” pull back on the bars (as the first option) but then also de-weight the feet.
I’m a bit more of the second one. What’s your preference?
I always hated drops (I'm not a massive fan now, but at least I can ride them, and sort of, almost, maybe slightly bigger than average ones, occasionally, if I'm feeling brave).
I went on not one, but TWO courses to try to break my fear of them.
Course 1 was at 'Degla with Neil Donoghue who taught the 'mini manual' technique, partly I think because it was a drops and jumps cause and there's some cross-over if you can do it that why.
IMHO, it's by far the worse of the two to learn at first, it requires you to do a lot more, whilst thinking a lot more and more importantly needs to be timed right or things can go badly wrong. If you can manual well it's probably okay, but I'm yet to meet a rider who can manual as long as they like who can't already ride drops well.
Course 2 was at BPW, they teach the easier, less flashy version, keep you head up and that's pretty much it*, if you're in the right position I.E. normal attack position and looking 10m down the trail, you can't really **** it up, you can make sure your weight centre is behind the weight centre of your bike, but just looking up will usually do that and you'll land pretty much both wheels at the same time, even if you 'stall' because you're going a bit slow, you'll still roll it out if you're far back enough.
Once you can do that, you can add finesse later.
*this stops you looking at your front wheel. Lots of people nervous of drops look at their front wheel, because that's the scary bit, if you do your weight is over the bars which means you'll roll over the edge rather than straight out and if the drop it more than 2ft, probably straight onto your face.
Hob Nob
Big old tug on the bars. Respect the send.
Yuh! 😀
I only recently old dogged the learning for this. My son laughed as I practised the same drop 5 times until I got it right, but it had to be done - I don't believe I tugged or pulled. Just used legs, body & much style.
Only time I really tug on the bars is going up a kerb on my road bike. (I have to pull this move every morning, so have it dialled (most days))
I hop, because then I feel more in control of everything. It's not the bike simply rolling off, it's me actively jumping off and landing on the other side. It's a very small hop of course, I don't want to sail too far.
at BPW
Ah, yeah, there's quite a biggun on Root Manoeuvres (I think)... kid flew down that. I walked. Gutted. I'll do it next time though.
We teach kids the manual technique. Start over logs then progress to small rollable drops, then bigger ones that can't be rolled. Yeah, you can just blast them and look up, but with kids the speeds might be low so we want a technique that'll see them right at any speed.
Does depend on the drop and speed.
Fast and small, I just ride over it, so I suppose my attack position and speed means I don't have to do anything.
Massive death type drops, well I pop the front a bit sort of like you would lift the front over a small branch, just by pushing through your feet. Trying to land both wheels first.
Certain death type drops, that may be vertical or undercut to start with but then turn into a slope, well those I unweight the front wheel and look to place it on the slope and ride it out. Those are the ones where the drop is just too big to land.
Yes, as per a manual as i said- you still have to pull the bars up though.
It's possibly phrasing / how it feels to you, which affects how you describe it, but I don't have any feeling of 'pulling'. That to me would mean elbows bending and the bars getting closer to my chest.
I push the bike forwards and away with arms and feet and as the arms extend the front wheel rotates up. Same as when you pop the front wheel up to flip the bike over to change a wheel, or wheel it through a kissing gate, etc.... you don't get the wheel up by 'pulling' although clearly your arms are causing the wheel to come up.
Small drops with no gap would be a manual. If there is any sort of gap to clear, or a lip then it would be a hop.
Everyone should learn to do a small manual and bunny hop. I've got friends that can't do either and it's very limiting I find.
I tend to favour the “look like I’m doing a poo” method
It’s no wonder it’s hard to coach MTBing well because I’m struggling to say what I do in words... Kind of a preload with the feet and a push with the arms. Harder preload if I’m going slower, more arm push if the landing’s steeper.
That’s a fair size Col!
* both brakes on almost to locking
* speed < 2mph so there's no momentum to throw me over the bars
* arms locked just in case
* fixate on the front wheel and watch it crawl over the lip
* brace for a pedal/crank strike
* the rear wheel rolls over the lip
* relief as the bike levels out and I haven't fallen off
Trying to land both wheels first
??? 🙂
As mentioned above, if it's a drop of any significance I push the bike forward to lift the front wheel.
Like this
http://endeavourcoaching.co.uk/how-to-drop/
Id say three trails of thought for this, with the third being this:
No pulling or mini anything. I just move my weight back on the bike and that’s it. Simples.
Basically squashing the drop through body movement only
That’s a fair size Col!
fnar, fnar!
It’s a funny one because the gap is a bit small for the height so you have to brake a bit on the run in and go quite slow or land to flat. Hence my weird body position in that shot.
send or be sent
My arse was knitting buttons watching that..... getting to that point where you've somehow got the bars in front of your legs and no means of escaping and yet still you know you're going over the edge. The time between departure and landing must have felt like an eternity, just waiting to see how bad the impact'll be.
pull and pray, pop and drop, or nose manny. only you know best. #sendyfortheboys
I did a skills course years ago at Llandegla with Bob Campbell & we were taught the manual method of loading the pedals & then almost pushing the bike away from you with your feet as you go over the edge. I seem to remember the emphasis was on NOT yanking on the bars, but pushing the bike forwards away from you.
I was impressed that I went from not attempting drops properly at all, to dropping off a fairly high obstacle in of <1 hr.
But, having barely practiced this over the years, I would say this is my preferred technique:
* both brakes on almost to locking
* speed < 2mph so there’s no momentum to throw me over the bars
* arms locked just in case
* fixate on the front wheel and watch it crawl over the lip
* brace for a pedal/crank strike
* the rear wheel rolls over the lip
* relief as the bike levels out and I haven’t fallen off
Problem is that there's not really anywhere local I can practice on & when we go to places with drops, it's hard to go round and session them for a while to gain confidence.
As mentioned above, if it’s a drop of any significance I push the bike forward to lift the front wheel.
Like this
> http://endeavourcoaching.co.uk/how-to-drop/
That is kind of a manual. The "unweight the bike as it goes over the lip" technique which I think it what @oikeith and whoever he was quoting said is different. It is like in that video, but done later. You move your weight down and rearwards (having first risen up a bit, and also a bit forwards) just as the front wheel goes over the lip. I tend to do that, if the movement is great enough and well timed, it works down to quite low speeds. Obviously at really low speeds you need to manual or wheelie off the lip.
The point is avoiding forward rotation. If you just did nothing, there would be a period when your rear wheel was supported but your front wheel not, leading to a momentary imbalance (the faster you are going, the more momentary it is, so the less problematical the rotation). if you unweight the rear wheel completely during that time, there is no rotation and you launch off level.
I think I could have a reasonable guess at who on this thread has been Jedi'd...
"every action has an equal & opposite reaction"
Hurling my body out into the void, attachment to bicycle optional.
actually I have been jedi’ed, there is no drop, only success
Ah I see, the jedi method appears to be a variant, the "Mid-Atlantic bunnyhop before the lip" approach. Same idea in terms of unweighting the rear wheel for long enough to clear the lip. Different from the manualling approach, where you ride on the rear wheel (keeping the bike relatively stable forward/backward rotation wise) as you go over the lip. Same end result, the bike stays level.
Colp... That's Austria? If its the one I'm thinking of, there are a bunch of dodgy jumps/gaps there. The landing on that one does not look nice, you could really send it and do some proper damage!
With drops I have no idea what I do anymore! Close my eyes, hope for the best and then pretend I'm a cool guy when I land it. I certainly don't lean back, body in a neutral position so the front doesn't dive and the rear lands at same time as front. As someone else has said, speed helps hide a multitude of sins!
This is how a ride drops (in my mind)....
In reality it's a combination of manual technique and body position to keep the front up, and the pushing the front down to the landing, all depending on speed and the size, shape, angle of the drop and landing.
Colp… That’s Austria? If its the one I’m thinking of, there are a bunch of dodgy jumps/gaps there. The landing on that one does not look nice, you could really send it and do some proper damage!
Spot on mate, X-line in Saalbach. There's 2 smaller drops before it and the bigger of the 2 is actually sketchier than this one. But yeah, with this one, if you hit it too quick you'd definitely be needing your EHIC card!
That Jerryoftheday vid above looks like Fade To Black in Whistler? Awesome trail.
I don't like the pushing the bike forward idea because my weight ends up rearwards, and I feel less able to control the attitude of the bike in the air.
When I say hop, what I mean is a little unweighting of the bike to stop the nose diving. Unless it's a small lip and I want more air, then I hop as much as I can.
does nobody else go for a 360 with optional superman ?
geex ?
anyone ?
I normally go as quick as I can, then throw my body weight backwards and hope I don’t die. This has had a variety of results from clearing decent drops to comedic OTB and other crashes. I really need to save up for a skills course.
Love how brendog makes it look so easy. Might have a go at something like that myself..
Pretty sure I've never ridden a 3ft drop out on the trails, but have on rides from my doorstep, on features of the urban coastline, when I've wanted to practice. I don't have great technique, so usually use speed. Got a street trials bike recently so started trying to do drops with as little momentum as possible. Had to move back down to much smaller heights. Finding it difficult to get the timing and the motion right each time.
Good example of the technique with Ali C making it look easy at 4:53
That movement Brendog does, that’s exactly how I visualise doing it in my head (thought I doubt it’s even a tenth as well executed) but I’ve never done it off anything higher than about 8’. The size of that blows my mind - his run at Rampage was amazing.
How do I do drops? with great fear usually even on the small yins, anything bigger, I'll either bump down, find the smoothest line, or just plain get off! 😆
I was not built to fly!
That Jerryoftheday vid above looks like Fade To Black in Whistler? Awesome trail.
It is indeed.
The video of Brendan in terms of 'form' looks pretty much bang on to me.
Hora style.
Do not bounce your arse off/stop the back wheel, Jenvenator style!
Interesting technique (pushing the rear wheel down with your legs) I've never heard discussed anywhere, is in the Ben Cathro video below. Anyone who has ridden proper DH trails, will know drops on them can be really tricky, in corners, where the luxury of speed isn't there to prevent disaster, or in sets with sketchy takeoffs and landings!
Drops with manicured takeoffs and graded landings, found at most bike parks are the easiest of the lot (well until they get really big). The absolute worst for me are the slow, really steep ones with holes and/or step downs just before the takeoff and bowled out landings, which g-out the bike and can stall it and buck you off, if you are not strong and positioned right on the bike.
#whatwouldbenderdo?
(can’t believe this hasn’t already happened in an STW thread on drops...)
Roll off and give the bars a bit of a shove forwards. The mini hop thing looks gash, and surely won't work at slow speed. I only hop off a drop if there is a root or something you might stall the rear wheel on at the lip. I have a drop near me that is on a downhill slope, you are breaking going into it to control your speed, then let the brakes off and unweight the front a little and off you go to a landing about 8' below, hopping off that would be near impossible.
Edit - Anyone who wants to session drops I've a few built near Preston if you want to have a practise.
Kinda of like a manual, i shift my weight back and use my legs to push the front forward but not really up, as i'm aiming to keep the bike level in the air, then straighten my body in the air to absorb the landing.
(This might be a terrible technique)
does nobody else go for a 360 with optional superman ?
geex ?
anyone ?
Front flip
<p>As qwerty posted... Still practicing</p>
Of all the situations for your manual to end prematurely...
The Cathro technique is for small ones that you can (in effect) pump? Yet another variation!
I like to slam the front wheel into the landing while still having the rear wheel on the top and hope the geomtry of bike and drop have something in common.
I did the wooden ladder drops at the Rothorn lift station in Lenzerheide at the end of season. Wooden "park" features are a mind warp for me. Facing up to the perfect sized ladder drops with perfect landings meant I had to get my head around the gravity of the situation; typical bike park features with a gradation from small to large but the small was still significant. I usually don't cope well mentally with man-made stuff because I presume the size range goes from "competent" to "confident" to "just not me".
Here's what happened. I was confident that day...
Little one was fine. Moved onto the middle sized one; that was fine too. Did it twice to make sure I'd not fluked it. Didn't really have any qualms rolling into it. Correct speed for both of these was a gentle roll in; nothing more.
Big one was lurking there and felt like an opportunity that I'd regret if I didn't take it.
It was a real struggle to get my head around; I'd obviously defaulted to viewing it as a "just not me" feature but I also knew my riding was as good as it has ever been. I looked at it. More distance to make; bigger drop overall - maybe 3m; maybe more; I'm not good at judging. It just felt huge. Important to not case; important to not overshoot. The only people I'd seen going off it in the preceding weeks had been yoof on DH bikes. I'm not yoof and bike was a season-weary enduro machine. But I had a factual basis for feeling confident; confident in the way I'd been riding all over the mountain; confident in the bike I knew well having ridden it all season.
I resolved my mental struggle into a decision about the "right speed" to carry into the drop. I locked that into my mental program and rolled in. No problem; slightly heavier landing than the middle size; maybe a bit short. Lined up again; locked in my mental game; rolled in: heavier landing; a bit over-excited trying to over-compensate for coming up a little short before; possibly touched down the rear wheel first so had a bit of slap bringing down the front which is the opposite of what's required. Tried it a third time; still needed to play my strong mental games to take myself off the edge; used "relaxation" as the key target state: nailed it.
Technique for all sizes of drop was just about the same: 1. have a plan; 2. visualisation; 3. keep it simple at launch; a mild impulse to leave the lip (if anything) and a softening at the hips for the rear wheel tracking off the lip; 4. keep the mental game solid for having a good ready position in the middle of the bike; ready for anything.
For me, "a manual" is something I visualise as a high energy move that has a significant percentage chance of my not executing it correctly. It involves pushing through the feet; pushing through the back wheel. Done incorrectly, that hard force delivered to the back wheel could turn into the dreaded forward rotation. Manualling off the launch also means you're in a back wheel heavy position for an obstacle where you're planning a front wheel first or both wheels touchdown. That sounds crazy to me; far too much to sort out in flight.
My technique is more a "squashing" technique; I'm taking energy away where I can; I start by a small impulse to keep the front wheel up (I suppose manual-like, but miniscule) then the softening at the hips means I'm lowering my body mass early (meaning there's less drop still to come) and in the air I have range of motion to either extend out to the landing or let the bike come into me even more to take the edge off casing the landing if I'm coming up short - I used both those contingencies in my attempts on the big drop.
That's all for artificial features with a horizontal launch but I don't think much changes on more natural features. The key is to have a good position, good mental commitment and good visualisation. If you have a good position over the bike with range of motion in your arms and legs, you're ready for most things.
^^^ Great response that. Cheers
I do think the way Brendog does it on that massive boulder drop is the only way you should learn to do it. You can manual off a drop but it's a less reliable approach for sure. Brendog's body movement can simply be adjusted for speed, size and angle by varying the push and timing with both hands and feet. It's not hugely dissimilar to the manual process but it's definitely not trying to manual off a drop, and it can vary from a hop-like pop to a squash depending on how you initiate it.
Badly!
The best advice I was given was to push the bars away from - then by the wonders of physics the bike stays flat in the air and you land flattish. doesn't work on the tandem tho 😉
I am actually rubbish but my preferred technique is as follows.-
Correct speed. I imaging a pencil being pushed off a desk, too slow and it nosedive and go into near vertical flight, correct speed has it flat landing a safe distance from the take off , too fast and it overshoots tthe correct landing zone.
Body position , weight central, armsbent, knees bent , head up , looking at landing zone.
Then its drop heels and drive bike through the BB with an upward trajectory aiming at the front fork crown. No silly yanking on bars , or pickig the bike pedals with your spd's. This can lead to a bike getting sideways and squiffy in the air as one arm is always dominant.
Then , as the feet push the BB forwards the arms also do the same , but softer, moving the body back as the bike leaves the lip. This enables me to extend the bike torward the ground whilst airborn and adjust the attitude of the bike in the air by incresing or decreasing pressure on the bars, better than being a dead sailor and freezing whilst in the air.
Aiming for a front wheel touchdown and compressing elbows and knees to absorb the hit , also seems to help the bike roll through the transition between flying and rolling .
This is the technique i would use when i am brave enough to ride off a drop , albeit maybe 2 -3ft maximum
Unless it's a trail centre style, which usually have a straight run in and out, I try and stay as central and 'fluid' as I can. Throwing your weight back ain't a great option if there's a bend straight after it frinstance. Lots of the trails we build locally have berms straight after jumps/drops, I find that I like to land slightly nose first in these, to get the weight and traction right for the start of the corner.
No one size fits all approach but there are certain things you don't do.
That is get so far back you lock your arms or put weight all on the front.
Generally stay flexible and in control of the bikes position. hold the front up.
I pull a small wheelie and ride off as have no other choice given I can't stop pedalling.
I'm generally pretty rubbish - my main technique is manualling off the drop for slower speeds. If going quick enough I just generally move my weight back a bit to lighten the front.
It really depends on the drop, but mostly I just "unweight" and try to angle the bike to land both wheels at the same time, if i'm going fast.
If i'm going intentionally slow, i'll manual or wheelie off it, but still try to get the bike to land flat, if not rear wheel slightly earlier.
If i'm going accidentally too slow, and the drop takes me by surprise, I use the "if in doubt, push it out" method, and get the bike as far in front of me as I can, usually ending in a hard front-wheel first landing, or occasionally OTB...
All of that said, I haven't done anything that would be considered a big drop, since I was a teenager on a Raleigh Burner, and I was made of rubber.
Meant to link to the video below in my original post. Although not drop specific, it's probably the most comprehensive scenario based video on YT and is a great learning tool in conjunction with others and of course doing.
Just be thankful I've linked videos rather than ramble on explaining my way, for a page or two, leaving everyone non the wiser!
Right gentlemen here is an example of a pedal kick drop. For the love of god don't try this unless you are already a dab hand at drops and a bit of a brute! Otherwise you could become a victim like so many before you, in my favourite genre of YT video, flat bed truck to face!
I just stand up. Jedi taught me that.
I don't do huge drops but Jedi's method works for me.
I was honestly just glad to realise that I am not the only person that walks the bigger drop on Roots Maneuvers... I'm off to tackle it again on the 14th. Maybe this time I'll ride it.
Next time I comment, I'll probably be bashing out a replay with my nose!
Jesus, the only time it's mildly complicated is if it's a drop out of a slow corner that requires a trials bike technique.
Every other drop can be taken succesfully, with the smallest little "pump" - you are pushing the bike forward - not manualing.