[Closed] So are road disks always a PITA?

Shimano 105 discs here, had them for a few years and several thousand miles with no complaints.

@13thfloormonk to the thread svp

Yes that is my experience. Many more problems with road disks than I ever see on the MTB. Don't know what the answer is aside from all of the usual obvious things, which do work but never for as long as off road.

Sounds like the usual Shimano problem that afflicts MTBs too.

I use RX4s, they're great.

Not something I've really experienced. You always get a bit of contamination eventually, but it generally takes a long time on a road bike, unless you're spraying WD40 all over them?

Road discs for years, Shimano 105. Used on my winter bike in North Wales, snow, rain, hail, steep descents. Love them. Apart from the fact they squeal.

Running road and gravel bikes with 105 discs and never a problem.

Mountain bike discs? Constant bloody nightmare

I'm with Bails and the others, Shimano 105 disks on my bike, over 4500 km on it to date, the most I've had to do is change the pads when they've worn down.

Both my wife and I have run ultegra discs for 3 years now. Zero problems. Much much more faffing on our MTBs.

Got ultegras on. The nice bike.

Rarely rides in the mank.

No squeeling or brake issues.

Fully prepared to drop on rx4s if needed. Shimano calipers of old always been a pox for me.

Got cable Hayes disks on my rove touring bike I use for winter duties. Again no noise and work well stop on a dime.

My Cannondale had 105 non series shifters / brake levers with a mixture of R785 post mount front caliper and I think r505 rear flat mount calipers. They’ve been commuteD on in all weathers And apart from some squealing sometimes in the rain they’ve been pretty good. They had sintered pads in them from new. I wasn’t aware of this so I ordered replacements which are resin and I think I’m chewing through the pads a lot quicker.

When I get the micro leak problem with the calipers I’ve already decided I’m going down the Hope RX4 route.

Edit - just to add I can endo whilst sitting down when braking from on top of the hoods. Definitely no lack of power. I would say the lever travel gets longer on long fast downhills though.

No issues on MTB or road bike. Can get a bit noisy if it gets wet but that is to be expected...caliper brakes are hardly quiet in the wet so no issue there and at least disk brakes actually work in the wet. Do get a bit noisier if the pads are run down too much, I tend to replace pads when they get to about 3/4 worn, but still work fine. Swapped out my Shimano 105 callipers and discs on my road bike for Hope RX4 with Hope floating rotor disks which served me very well hurtling down some Alps last year and in the Peaks in the UK, and the Hope E4's on my MTB do a grand job too. But didn't have any issues with other setups I've run in the past.

Who knows why some people have no issues and some have constant issues...like BB's I guess, some people seem to eat through them in no time and others they will provide years and thousands of miles of creak free service. Difficult to diagnose the issue in all individual cases without a thorough investigation.

Avid BB7s on the Arkose haven't missed a beat, wind the pads in now and again.

Which reminds me, it's done a good few thousand miles on the original pads, I should check them really!

Same here, 105 disks have been boringly faultless.

That said so we’re my hyrds too. And my cable discs other than the constant cable adjustment

I have Giant’s Conduct hydraulic system on my Arkose and have had no problems at all. The mechanical discs that were on there before were ok too, just needed adjusting for wear regularly.

Coming down dry hot alpine cols the power and silence and modulation of road discs are fantastic.

For UK winter road riding discs are a frightful cacophony. They never build up enough heat to burn off the road grime/contamination. After three years of perseverance, I switched to the sublime silence of deep drop caliper rim brakes. I'm not goig back.

No

Over 10k miles in poor weather on RS505 calipers. Seals on both of them started leaking after about 18 months, giving poor braking and horrific noise. Replaced under warranty and flawless since.

Apart from when they were leaking, they're mostly pretty quiet, but can squeal a bit in the wet.

@13thfloormonk to the thread svp

😀 Crimsondynamo has stolen my lines!

OP most of your problems sound like contamination though? Maybe you need to go forensic and replace rotors, pads and callipers to ensure no leaking or residue?

Which pad compound are you using?

I have Ultegra on the posh road bike and only had squealing issues when I did not use Shimano JO2A pads.

Otherwise all good, lots of power and modulation even on worn pads.

Ultegra 6800 hydraulic groupset on my CX bike which I bought in 2015 and ride all the time - off road and winter commuting included - about 8000 miles I think.

Bled them once. Changed the pads once. They have always just worked.

Only issues are:
The rubber bit around one lever doesn't sit back into place properly.
The hex head pad retaining pin in the front one has rounded, so it will need to be drilled out and be replaced with a split pin when I next change the pads. Supposedly a common thing.

I get the most problems with road discs in just the conditions where I value them, UK winters. Road grime, salt, oil etc isn't a massive issue but it does kill pads / brake effect at some point every winter. My all-road bike isn't as affected as the dirt seems to clear them off more but still get problems on salted roads. Road discs are problem-free in the dry when really I don't care what brake type the bike has.

I've gone back to my old rim brake bike over the last 2 winters, the brake type wasn't the reason but it wasn't a reason not to either. On 25mm tyres I'm just not going that fast down any hills here in the wet and it's on basic rims that I don't mind wearing through every few years. Good pads reduce that anyway and I don't mind rinsing it off after a ride. They don't work as well as a disc on a good day but they're consistent.

For UK winter road riding discs are a frightful cacophony. They never build up enough heat to burn off the road grime/contamination. After three years of perseverance, I switched to the sublime silence of deep drop caliper rim brakes. I’m not goig back

My deep drop calipers are also wonderfully silent. They're also not very good in the wet. The occasional chirrup from my RX4s is a small price to pay. I do agree that Shimano calipers seem to be noisier, and TRP Spyres are deafening.

The occasional chirrup from my RX4s is a small price to pay.

Occasional chirrup? Oh what I wouldn't give for an occasional chirrup!

This is the reason I'm developing a reputation for hanging around these sorts of threads, I want to love discs but as JamesO says they typically just take a lot of the fun out of the very rides they are supposed to excel in (wet cold winter rides).

When it's already wet and grey and cold I want to just be able to hunker down and tap out a rhythm on the pedals, and not have my nice meditative state disrupted at every junction or corner by howling brakes.

The manufacturer that offers a consistently quiet, low maintenance (blowtorching pads doesn't count...) disc brake can take my money!

I do wonder if this there's geographical factors at play, 13thfloor is in Edinburgh, Jameso - no sure but in the busy south somewhere - increased traffic and road film compared to folks that ride quiet country roads all the time?.

Aberdeen

Never really been concerned by any noises.

Really the only noise I've had is when my front floating rotor on my minis developed play at the rivets and got an horrendous vibration under braking.

I ride with Ultegras in Edinburgh and out on country lanes and on gravel all year in total filth. Around 4000 miles on them and they're just about to get their second set of pads. They've been totally faultless.

Duplicate

Oh an especially relevent to the good bike.

I'll take a little noise and actually stopping over carbon rims which in the wet were/are lots of noise and not much stopping. I still am reminded of the horror 3/4 times a year when I take the TT bike out with its carbon disk/88 combo.....even with posh Mavic calipers and carbon rim pads it's suggestive at best.

I deliberately held off on carbon rims for the road bike for this reason. When I updated from prehistoric I went lockstock carbon rims/disks. They are just complimentary technologies.

No problem with Ultegra brakes here on my road bike. There's always going to be a little more noise in the wet than mountain bikes, I think, because the frames and forks aren't as stiff.

Goes without saying but since you say they improve after cleaning and new pads, are you absolutely sure you're not contaminating them by accident? Silicone spray can ruin pads if it's used in the same room, let alone sprayed near the bike.

You could consider getting the brake mounts properly faced by your LBS.

I deliberately held off on carbon rims for the road bike for this reason.

I totally get this, one of the reasons I'm holding off carbon rims (apart from expense and frankly no benefit to my paltry performance) is braking performance. If I really wanted to shave aero watts I'd probably want to go carbon and would therefore probably also want to go disc.

I do wonder if this there’s geographical factors at play, 13thfloor is in Edinburgh

Yes and no, my only city centre riding is on cycle paths, so little or no road contamination I would have though. All else is country roads e.g. Bathgate Alps, Fife etc.

You could argue geography in that the terrain rarely allows for brakes to get hot, I've tried Scotroute's suggestion of repeated hard braking to burn off pads but this either becomes a ride in itself to find a hill to go up and down to do repeated hard stops (almost like the bedding in process all over again) or you just end up ruining some good descents and scaring your riding buddies by suddenly coming to random screeching halts in the middle of descents! (sort of tongue in cheek that last point).

I'm virtually certain contamination isn't an issue for me, if only because of how infrequently I ride my disc brake bike, and only in the dry!

The manufacturer that offers a consistently quiet, low maintenance (blowtorching pads doesn’t count…) disc brake can take my money!

I did 50 miles in the pouring rain last Sunday... the RX4s squeal a bit on initial application but clear very quickly and are then quiet. They're always quiet in the dry. In contrast, I've noticed that a lot of club mates' shimano calipers howl even if there's just a small amount of moisture on the road. My Spyres were deafening.

Couple of shops I'm friendly with said they had alot of issues with customers with Shimano disks.

In the end after alot of testing they found the only way to get satisfied customers was to change the generic Patern rotors that the bikes in question were coming with and fitting genuine Shimano rotors and new genuine pads on warrenty.

Are RX4s 4 pot? Do you think they have a degree of toe-in? Seem to remember that was a feature of the original DH4s e.g. they had one smaller piston and one larger.

+1 for road grime being pretty awful stuff on disk brakes.
Even carrying bikes on the towbar rack can cover everything in mank...

Thanks for the input everyone. Suspect problem is mainly contamination from the road. Will clean rotors to death and change the pads again and see what happens.

I've had problems a couple of times where the brake performance on my commuting bike has deteriorated badly, and they only bite (with lots of squealing) if I really haul on the levers. Last time this happened I decided it was caused by the pads glazing and the discs polishing up during the better weather over the summer. A bit of wet and dirt over the winter seemed to sort things out. It wasn't oil leaking from the seals because the lever feel hasn't changed over a long period of time, and they are working perfectly now.

We live in Lancashire. Bike gets ridden in grim weather

This stands out to me, OP. On MTB discs it's all about the right pads (generally sintered because organic gets chewed up by the grit) and bedding them in. I've not actually heard that mentioned for road disks, but would the same not apply? From what you've said, the conditions could be fairly minging for the average road pad, so you might want to check out different pads and do some bedding in (if you don't already)

Had my flat bar commuter for a year now, and it has basic shimano hydros, they're still really good.

The best way I have found to clean rotors is simply to douse them in bike cleaner (using Halfords orange stuff currently which is excellent) then ride it in the street and do a couple of braking efforts, then hose it off thoroughly.

I do wonder if this there’s geographical factors at play, 13thfloor is in Edinburgh, Jameso – no sure but in the busy south somewhere – increased traffic and road film compared to folks that ride quiet country roads all the time?.

Chilterns. Rarely ride through anywhere more built-up than Wendover. Traffic level's higher in the SE for sure but it's starting to get rural here, some really quiet loops on my doorstep. There are a lot of short, steep descents on gritty, pot-holed lanes though, I'm backing right off on those hills in the wet whether on discs or not.

My Spyres were deafening.

The OE pads aren't great and I had a lot of noise and warble from some semi-sintered but get great performance from Shimano Deore resin pads - silent, smooth and long life year-round also. Used the Deore pads for a couple of the Turin-Nice trips and they lasted the whole thing, a lot of loaded descending on the brakes, plenty left by the end. Suprising at first but I've stuck with them.

In the dry, no issues. In the wet, sometimes they get noisy, especially if I've not ridden in a while. My MTB is the same though. Mostly I'd say I have no issues - Shimano were noisier than my etap hydraulic, but they were fine.

I ride my bike with discs in the city. the brakes are fine. I think the key is hard braking - I often ride down leith walk and brake HARD for traffic lights

I'd agree with that tj - our TRP spyres can get a bit gobbly and squarky. One properly hard braking at the bottom of some of our hills can sort them out.

I've also got some Clarks pads that immediately braked better and are quieter.

Five and a half years on early Sram hydros (pre flat mount) with no issues. Never needed bled either, they’ve just worked.
Another year on Force 1 with similar experiences.
Confidence they give to a “bigger” rider in crap conditions is amazing.
Plus, never could get rid of brake rub on calipers when frame and wheel flexed when out of the saddle.

My spyres were pish on the cx bike, but concensus on here was that they were some early model, as only one side of the caliper moved, and on 'proper spyres' that isn't the case.

Just changed the front br505 caliper to an RX4 and it’s amazing the difference. I’ve had no issues with the back br505 but the front was always prone to fade. I tried aftermarket sintered pads and they were awful so I went back to the OE resin pads. No leakage at the caliper that I could see.
I have Rival hydroR on my CX race bike and they’ve been great all the time.

I think a lot of noise issues will be related to resonance, which will be specific to frame/fork/caliper/pad/disc combination.  Changing any one of these elements may shift the resonant frequency enough to stop the squeel.  Or it may not, depending upon what is resonating! ( a single element or the whole system).

regarding Performance issues I think that road discs are just not as suited to their environment as MTB discs.  The road grease/grime doesn't provide a natural cleaning grit on the surfaces, and the nature of the braking (long, gentle applications) doesn't do the pads/discs much good.

I remember when discs were being introduced on MTBs and there was loads of press about changing how you brake, from long draggy applications to scrub off speed gently, to short hard applications drop lots of speed quickly, and generate lots of heat to maintain pad/disc interface.  I don't think I've seen much of this with the advent of road discs, so wonder if it's been forgotten in the mists of time?  Or just no longer relevant with modern pads etc.

another +1 for RX4s. Can't actually compare them to the SRAM Rival calipers I bought as I replaced them without actually using them, but the Hopes have been faultless.

Road grease and grime? What the hell is that? And if grease is going to affect disk brakes then they’re going to affect rim brakes too. Any form of lubrication is going to affect the performance of any friction braking system.

Nowt wrong with disk brakes. They work fine. If you’re having problems it’s something you’ve done either in the installation or the maintenance.

TLDR for the rest of the comments, but OP - you seem to have the classic problem of failing Shimano calipers. Squealing, lack of power, etc. Cleaning the pads and discs will fix it for a very brief period of time, but you need to replace the calipers.

If you’re having problems it’s something you’ve done either in the installation or the maintenance.

Nope, tempting accusation to make but I've done everything a home mechanic can do, and have lived with discs on MTBs for 15 or more years so am no stranger to them.

Have tried SRAM, TRP and Shimano, numerous different rotors and pad compounds (but of course, never mixing pad compounds on the same rotor). Always fastidiously bedding them in. Pads checked for glaze and given a rub with wet and dry if necessary.

If they've been contaminated it's only been with road spray which to my mind is an inherent flaw with road discs anyway 'hey, they're great in the wet, but by the way all that spray coming off the road will ruin the pads'... and I've even taken a blow torch to them occasionally to burn off any contaminants, as well as giving them a spray with isopropyl after any particularly wet ride.

Mounts all faced, callipers centred and aligned using an alignment gauge.

After all that, all my set ups have worked perfectly in the dry, quiet, smooth and powerful if occasionally requiring realignment.

But all have been gut wrenchingly noisy in the cold and wet, which is why I agree with this:

I think a lot of noise issues will be related to resonance, which will be specific to frame/fork/caliper/pad/disc combination.

Obviously my size/weight/speed/frame/fork combo just guarantees noise when stick/slip friction is occurring e.g. braking on a wet rotor.

Road grease and grime? What the hell is that? And if grease is going to affect disk brakes then they’re going to affect rim brakes too. Any form of lubrication is going to affect the performance of any friction braking system.

Disc pads can get contaminated in a way caliper blocks don't. Pads are porous, blocks are not (not since they stopped putting those leather strips in them anyway). It's mainly salt on the roads that kills pad friction ime plus oil or fuel on wet roads, or diesel soot can do it - put a bike on a car rack and it can happen. Stiuff splashed up would affect either but rim brakes seem to just get rid of it. Bigger area to brake on, faster surface speed? Not sure exactly why.

My experience is that they can be a PITA, but it's quite possible to have them be almost zero-maintenance too.

For Shimano discs, the two pieces of advice from me are fastidious bleeding and blow-torch the pads! Shimano road discs are tricky to bleed well - far more so than MTB IME - but you can get them really well bled, with good feel and boat-loads of power, just don't expect to do it first time. Unless you do it every day, expect to have a few goes at it before you get them spot on. Personally, removing the caliper from the frame so it can be moved around to release air, combined with a similar process on the lever and a lot of "flicking" and pressured release of fluid from the caliper will always (eventually) result in a well-bled system, but it may take 30 mins of dicking about before it's spot on. Make sure the caliper mounts are faced and that the caliper is *perfectly* aligned to avoid noisy brakes.

For squealing brakes in the dry, it's nearly always down to contamination - road film in the winter, and leakage from the calipers if the bike has stood for a while. Pads out, stick 'em on a slab, and heat them with a blow-torch until they look cleaner. Stick 'em back in and job's a good 'un. I did some absolutely filthy looking ones on an MTB just yesterday and after a short ride, they were good as new despite the bike not turning a wheel for 2 years. I admit that I have swapped rotors in the past, which definitely helps. I think this comes down to the resonance that others have mentioned - sometimes you just need to change something to adjust the combination of bike / rider / brakes so that they don't resonate for your particular combination.

I do think that disc brakes on road bikes can be a bit more faff than rim brakes, but not so much more and they are undoubtedly worth the extra effort! And once you've got them dialled (at least in the summer when the roads aren't as filthy), I rarely need to touch them.

I'd get your LBS to check the alignment of the mounts. We had lots of issues especially with flat mounts not being aligned properly on the fork and frame. A few mins (or hours if Ti) with the right tool and all will probably be solved

Shimano 105's here and no end of problems (extremely, and I mean extremely, noisy squealing and complete lack of power).

Have tried everything within my remit cleaning wise (pads out, cleaned with disc brake cleaner, in the oven, disks off and cleaned to within a inch of their life) which sometimes helps for a few rides but then it comes back without fail.

I have gone through a few calipers and always get the same problem.  My mechanic (I am rubbish with hydraulics!) has tried for warranty via Madison but they deny any issue...so it has cost an arm and a leg.

Royally hacked off with it as the bike (which is the mile munching winter bike) does not get used when it should be.  MTB disks on the other hand never had any issues (mostly Shimano)

I was thinking of going down the RX4 route as well but its quite a pricey option....if it definitely cured it though probably one worth taking...how do people find the RX4's generally, write ups seem pretty good, power wise I;m not expecting a massive improvement (at least when the Shimanos are working that is) but if they did not suffer noise i, like the OP, would be happy.

PS not that it should make the blindest bit of difference but I'm in Yorkshire.

how do people find the RX4’s

Mine have been excellent. On the other hand, the RS405s on my gravel bike have also been ok and are half the price.

Ultegra’s on my road bike here and they’ve done over 5000km problem free in all four seasons. They’ll get a bit loud in the wet but then quieten down again once the initial load of water has been scrubbed off.

Would love to get a set of RX4s but I fear this bike (a Parlee Altum) isn’t quite the one for them. Maybe if I manage to get myself a nice titanium jobby...

EDIT: Should have said perhaps, this bike mainly gets ridden from west London out to the Surrey Hills or the Chilterns or similar.

I used to have a diverge with spyres and deeply deeply regretted not going for the model up that had hydro brakes they just took so much force to slow me down (i am a fatty) my hands would be aching after any long descents.

My dad has a cx bike he's had for years that I've always maintained for him with bb7s, went through pads very quickly and always noisy.

He bought a new bike with 105 hydros last year and while waiting for me to fit new pads to it this week (first set in a year) took the old bike out then immediately decided to sell it as he's never going to ride it again after how bad the brakes are in comparison to his new bikes.

So for me and my dad's experience
Cables disks = crap
Hydro = good