You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
....can riders adhere to the voluntary riding ban. NWMBA have received an email from the Access Officer for Snowdonia National Park stating riders are ignoring the ban. The ban is in place for very good reasons including rider and pedestrian safety. If the ban is flouted access could be removed completely. NWMBA and other groups have worked hard to continue to ensure MTB are allowed on the mountain. Please don't ruin this.
Cheers.
I know it's a sensitive topic but citing "rider and pedestrian safety" as a reason for a ban is a bit of a hostage to fortune. Surely getting out the message that "it's shit trying to descend as it's so busy" would be a better approach?
Maybe there should be a week or two in the year solely for biking with no walkerists 😉 But yeah - liking that scotroutes.
including rider and pedestrian safety
Nonsense. It's there because the main route is busy and to placate grumpy walkers. How busy exactly is Rhydd Dhu on a Monday morning though?
I agree with the ban entirely but say they did bring in a full ban how would it be enforced? Would the wardens chase lads on bikes? Plus ignoring a footpath ban won't get you in prison therfore no consequences?!
I see the keyboard warriors are out in force this morning.
Rider and Pedestrian safety was a topic of discussion during the meetings. Along with other reasons the ban is in place. Including respecting other users.🙄
Regardless of any ban, voluntary or not, would i **** want to go riding anywhere that’s popular with walkers.
Nonsense. It’s there because the main route is busy and to placate grumpy walkers
This x10000
To say it's in place for safety reasons is just wrong.
I was there Saturday, I don't know about Grumpy walkers, we spoke to more than a dozen walkers going down as we were going up and everyone was friendly.
One guy asked "Are you allowed to ride here then?" in a tone that lead me to believe he knew the answer, but I played along, gave the 10am to 5pm embargo rule, which he followed up with "all year?" Which we gave the correct answer to too, he seemed pleased. I was too, We decided to push up at about 3pm figuring that was okay, pushed the parts that we completely empty and easier to ride figuring you never know who's looking.
Since we are 'banned' from virtually all the good, natural trails in the UK owing to them being footpaths personally I think a ban on any of the few decent bridleways we have is laughable. If anything hikers should be banned. As it happens I give Snowdon the same treatment I give any other big, popular mountain. Ride at dawn, dusk or midweek outside of school holidays. That is purely common sense to reduce the irritation of having to deal with militant walkers who frustratingly have the ridiculous law on their side and stop at nothing to get in the way. The fact that this aligns with the voluntary 'ban' is entirely coincidental.
It's absolutely in place for safety reasons. I ride Snowdon a lot myself but my ex used to walk it all the time and got hit by a mountain biker who was screaming down at a busy time, slaloming between walkers.
650,000 people climb Snowdon every year. It's ****ing busy. If you can't stick to the ban you're a prick. It's not hard. Get up early or go up later on if you must ride it in the summer. If you do it in the day, regardless of safety, then you'll have a bad ride anyway as you'll be stopping for pedestrians all the time.
Idiots will be idiots though.
Riders flouting the ban are harming everything we have achieved over the last 10+years in keeping MTB access on the mountain.
At a time when access to the countryside is being looked at these agreements are a great example of access users working together on a common goal. Simply put it our sport can not be responsible why would National Parks allow us further access or changes to access laws.
The ban is in place. Adhere to it or lose access.
Agree 100÷ monkeysfeet.
I've not been up there for a while, I presume the ban is well signposted and riders are just being dicks?
"Keyboard warriors" because they don't agree with you? 😂
What you are supporting is the idea that it's ok to ban mountain bikes wherever it's busy or there's been an accident involving one. That precedent has repercussions way beyond one hill in Wales and isn't a decision you are entitled to make on behalf of cyclists across the country.
Since we are ‘banned’ from virtually all the good, natural trails in the UK owing to them being footpaths
Bollocks, you need to get out and explore more.
What you are supporting is the idea that it’s ok to ban mountain bikes wherever it’s busy or there’s been an accident involving one.
Bicycles are banned from Motorways as well - I suppose that is an unreasonable restriction on our liberties too? Especially when theres them gert big cycle paths painted down both sides!
The worst thing welsh government is still in the middle of processing the consultation about opening more (all?) footpaths to bikes. People flouting the ban are giving such a ridiculous amount of ammunition to those who would oppose that they are more than likely shitting all over any chance of that now happening. Way to go guys!
I'm amazed people want to go anywhere near Snowdon during the tourist season. It's pretty much stuffed to bursting with the sort of people that can be normally found at the Mall and have all the sense and situational awareness of a fish finger.
There are mountains nearby that are deserted, don't have idiots all over them and silly bans. Leave Snowdon to the tourists
I’m amazed people want to go anywhere near Snowdon during the tourist season. It’s pretty much stuffed to bursting with the sort of people that can be normally found at the Mall and have all the sense and situational awareness of a fish finger.
Exactly the message that needs to get out.
I agree with nickc - way too busy in the holiday period.
You can't really 'ban' cyclists though when all you have to do is lift your bike over a stile.
I agree with the ban as it is a busy mountain and I will observe it, I'm considering a trip up in a few weeks, late evening. But a partial ban or full ban is not really going to make any difference to people who want to ride it.
Surely a voluntary agreement not to ride should be seen as just that.
Some people don't volunteer. It's the minority
The vast majority who do observe the times are greatly helping the cause. Surely a positive thing.
It seems to have been turned into an 'actual' ban where anyone who didn't know or disagreed is seen to be bringing everyone else down with them.
It's Snowdonia - are there really no other routes, you have to ride the tourist path ?
Should also be noted that revocation of access will only affect riders who currently support and observe the agreement. Those riders who don't currently observe it will continue to ride up and down the mountain whenever they fancy.
I'm sure that the current agreement has led to far fewer mtbers leaving the summit at peak hours and coming into conflict with walkers. Complete compliance may be unrealistic.
I support and adhere to the voluntary ban. However, a permanent ban is going to impact people like me, but unlikely to have any impact on those currently ignoring the ban as they've already demonstrated their inability to give a shit.
Jekkyl - I believe if a ban were to be brought in it would be a bylaw and as such would be enforceable. Different to using a footpath in general.
P Jay - no it's not ok to go up at 3, that's why the ban is 10-5. Why did you think that would be ok, was the ban not clear? Post 5 gives more than enough time to get up and down and makes for quiet trails.
P Jay – no it’s not ok to go up at 3
Yes it is, he was walking with a bike, not riding it - he made that clear in his post. The ban is on cycling.
Having said that, most sensible people would not have a problem with someone riding a bike at walking pace (or less!) uphill.
Is this signposted? I know many folk who do not frequent online forums, and who would just turn up with no map to ride Snowdon completely unaware.
I also know that many folk are just idiots, and you cannot argue with them or label them as riders. They are fools.
The vast majority of folk respect the ban.
I also agree with marketing it as 'it is too damn crowded' is a smarter move than 'oooh, its risky'.
I thought there was a voluntary agreement not to ride there. This has now become a ban, it seems. However, yes - it’s busy and therefore rubbish to ride like any busy path.
Yes it is, he was walking with a bike, not riding it – he made that clear in his post. The ban is on cycling.
Having said that, most sensible people would not have a problem with someone riding a bike at walking pace (or less!) uphill.
I think that kind of attitude does piss a lot of people off though.
<p>What you are supporting is the idea that it’s ok to ban mountain bikes wherever it’s busy or there’s been an accident involving one. That precedent has repercussions way beyond one hill in Wales and isn’t a decision you are entitled to make on behalf of cyclists across the country.</p>
<p>The ban is already in place. The post is a reminder to those that are not adhering to it. It isn't a question of whether or not you disagree with me.</p><p>Your post is incorrect. As a member of an organisation that provides a voice to the sport I do speak on behalf of the MTB community. People like me give up their free time to attend meetings and canvas our sport on behalf of riders.</p><p>If you don't already, try attending the access meetings that have been advertised recently surrounding open access.</p>
I think that kind of attitude does piss a lot of people off though.
Why? The ban is on cycling. Pushing a bike uphill is definitely not cycling, and is both within the terms of the agreement and its spirit, which is to stop bikes flaying through packs of walkers at speed.
Why? The ban is on cycling. Pushing a bike uphill is definitely not cycling, and is both within the terms of the agreement and its spirit.
Because people interpret a sign that says 'No Cycling' to mean no bikes allowed. Biking is a minority sport, walking is much widely participated in. Piss off the majority and you are more likely to get a complete ban.
It also shouts a bit of childish behaviour.
A good analogy would be the seasonal restrictions on climbers accessing certain crags because of nesting or roosting birds or in some cases rare plants, admittedly these tend to have a "backstop" of a significant fine if you get caught climbing those routes or on those crags. Usually any transgressions are accidental or because the birds nested late.
As a result of pretty good compliance with the restrictions, in discussions I've had with the RSPB climbers are seen as an ally and there's an understanding if not agreeing ear should any problems arise. This has resulted in some restrictions being reduced or being flexible - the birds haven't nested at this site this year so no restrictions, that sort of thing.
The child like "I want, I want" from some about the seasonal restriction on Snowdon is frankly embarrassing.
I would like to point out, it is not a ban.
It is a voluntary agreement.
The sign is clear.
If a few folk choose to ignore it, then they personally should be spoken to in an attempt to see if they will help in future.
Because people interpret a sign that says ‘No Cycling’ to mean no bikes allowed.
I've come across walkers who think that a bridleway means them and horses only. I'm always happy to explain. I'd hope that the people who administer the agreement would be happy to define 'cycling' for anyone complaining.
It's already a pretty restrictive agreement. Let's not make it even more restrictive. Common sense suggests that the main risk from pushing a bike up Snowdon at 3pm on a sunny day is heatstroke, not walker carnage.
Is this signposted? I know many folk who do not frequent online forums, and who would just turn up with no map to ride Snowdon completely unaware.
Yes it is, at the start of every bridleway up snowdon, with a map showing which routes are out of bounds.
was up there a few weekends ago, rode up after 5pm and it was still really busy with walkers coming down, although pretty much had rangers to ourselves for the decent.
walked up the next day via ranger and saw two idiots coming down the zig zags at 2pm. Decent bikes and all the kit, so Mikey not newbies, but barely in control and clearly struggling. Wasn’t fun for any of the walkers around and cant imagine they were enjoying it
I think most mags & online guides mention it too when it's discussed, you have to be trying really hard to not know.
As for safety - you have a large number of walkers and bikes travelling at a much different pace, early you are mostly riding towards people coming up so you can see each other and leaving at 5pm it's normally very clear on the way back down. Between those times it can be a complete mess of people with no clear right of way/travel and several sections where you can be funnelled into a group of walkers. Anyone who can risk assess would pick it up as an issue.
Maybe they should start an uplift service on the train to get to the top for 5? Thus avoiding any confusion whether pushing a bike is ok or not.
Someone needs to ride down it at a very busy time wearing a video camera, post the result on YouTube and then get everyone to Like it. That way, anyone looking for it there will see how shit it is and be put off.
I just drive my 4x4 up, get the bike out, ride down, and wait for the authorities to bring it back down for me.
He got 22 months, apparently. Should have pushed up after five.
The train doesn't take bikes, which is a great shame. They are missing a trick though, I'm sure you'd get people willing to pay £100+ for a mountain uplift. Perhaps the authorities have disallowed it!?
Last time I went there it was April and I rode/pushed Llanberis and went down Rangers. The mountain was snow covered at the top and amongst the "you have shorts on, are you mad" comments, 2 groups of walkers told me bikes were banned from Snowdon. So it's not just riders.
I get the novelty factor of wanting to ride up / down Snowdon. Having walked up it I can also see how it would be a great challenge. But its busy, some of the paths are busy most of the year. Why would anyone want to ride down it when you know you are going to come into contact with large groups of walkers on a very regular basis?
Antur Stiniog isn't far away or Coed Y Brenin. Different riding, but at least its contained and away from walkers.
I also don't understand the "we have a right to ride it if we want", yes we do have a right. But why would we want to exercise that right when there is perfectly good trails that have been purpose built for us not far away. If we had walkers getting in the way at AS because they feel they have the same right, then we wouldn't be happy.
If we're talking about safety (which we aren't, because the ban isn't about safety, it's about the trail being busy), then surely sending riders, who are much more likely to find themselves in tricky situations (broken bones etc) than walkers, up after 5pm is a bigger danger?
What will happen with the ban if the Welsh access laws change? I assume if there is no option to downgrade the route there's nothing that can be done?
I've never broken the ban, but I have pushed up before 5. Because the point of the ban is to ease the pressure of riders going quickly downhill when it's busy, and pushing uphill isn't a problem.
If we’re talking about safety (which we aren’t, because the ban isn’t about safety, it’s about the trail being busy), then surely sending riders, who are much more likely to find themselves in tricky situations (broken bones etc) than walkers, up after 5pm is a bigger danger?
the trail being busy means there is a safety issue. you can't unlink the 2 things
Someone needs to ride down it at a very busy time wearing a video camera, post the result on YouTube and then get everyone to Like it. That way, anyone looking for it there will see how shit it is and be put off.
Then compare it to someone riding down ben lomond or ben nevis at a busy time. Compare and contrast the live and let live attitude. (tbh I suspect the reality isn't that much different down south, might be different in the town halls, but on the hills? I've never experience anything but support and encouragement/astonishment)
tbh the easiest thing would just be to build a mountain bike route down the hill. Separate walkers and bikers paths. Job jobbed.
ninfan
Since we are ‘banned’ from virtually all the good, natural trails in the UK owing to them being footpathsBollocks, you need to get out and explore more.
This is fair comment
the trail being busy means there is a safety issue. you can’t unlink the 2 things
automatically a safety issue? Nah.
Arguably there is more of a safety issue on quieter trails where riders are likely to reach higher speeds and are less likely to expect to encounter other users.
As I referred to in my original post, justifying a voluntary restriction based on the safety argument could have much wider repercussions.
As I referred to in my original post, justifying a voluntary restriction based on the safety argument could have much wider repercussions.
Ah the slippery slope, this has been in place for a very long time now, what other restrictions have come from this? It's a BW in a very unique location.
Since we are ‘banned’ from virtually all the good, natural trails in the UK owing to them being footpaths
Bollocks, you need to get out and explore more.
This is fair comment
No I don't think it is - I explore a lot...and the best trails I find tend to be illegal - Of course it depends what you like to ride.
I find bridleways are good for getting to the top of the mountain.
But the most crucial thing is not where but when to ride - and that goes for Bridleways and footpaths. The former are normally busier than the latter.
It’s a BW in a very unique location.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountains_and_hills_of_the_British_Isles_by_height
Unique in that there's 276 peaks over 3000ft in the UK? Of which only 30 you aren't allowed to take a bike up?
There are plenty of hills that are also very busy that have no restrictions on cyclists.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">FunkyDunc
<div class="bbp-author-role"></div>
</div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
Because people interpret a sign that says ‘No Cycling’ to mean no bikes allowed.
Then that needs fixed. The solution to people misinterpreting the agreement isn't for everyone to act like their misinterpretation is correct.
Riding and pushing within the actual terms of the agreement isn't "childish".
Unique in that there’s 276 peaks over 3000ft in the UK? Of which only 30 you aren’t allowed to take a bike up?
Easily accessible, highest in Wales, part of the dreaded 3 peaks, few hours drive from major populations, relatively straight forward walk, so yeah fairly unique. This is one you can take a bike up... there are just some long standing restrictions that have been in place for a number of years in peak season.
oh and as others have mentioned..... it's one of the least rewarding experiences to slog up and ride down stopping and slowing to walking pace all the way. It's a great system to stop you wasting a few hours of your life.
Then that needs fixed. The solution to people misinterpreting the agreement isn’t for everyone to act like their misinterpretation is correct.
See also: All the other things that some cyclists do that some non-cyclists are convinced are illegal - two abreast, not using a cycle path, not wearing a helmet, not having/using a bell...
It's a good agreement, we should follow it, but not exceed it based on the whims of some walkers who half-read/misinterpreted the sign. And we should remember that the minority group is already being very generous - cyclists are voluntarily giving up a fair chunk of their statutory access rights in the interests of public safety.
> Unique in that there’s 276 peaks over 3000ft in the UK? Of which only 30 you aren’t allowed to take a bike up?
> There are plenty of hills that are also very busy that have no restrictions on cyclists.
But it's the only one with a train delivering thousands of tourists to the top and it takes "very busy" to another level on fine summer days.
Unique in that there’s 276 peaks over 3000ft in the UK? Of which only 30 you aren’t allowed to take a bike up?
Completely disingenuous. What is the number of 3000ft peaks in Wales that you can/ can't take a bike up in midsummer?
One guy asked “Are you allowed to ride here then?” in a tone that lead me to believe he knew the answer, but I played along
I’ve had similar conversations in the Peaks before when I’ve been pushing the bike on a FP link where I’ve been questioned on why I’m not riding and people have seemed pleased to know that I’m not riding there because I know I shouldn’t and am heading somewhere that there is no such problem.
Especially in these days of smartphones, cameras and social media, “you never know who’s watching” has never been truer.
Due to the ridiculous system for rights of way in England and Wales, one, and it's Snowdon. Maybe if the national park opened up some more of the peaks the pressure would be removed from Snowdon.
Last time I walked up there was a mid teens lad with a downhill bike & full face pushing up late morning. I spoke to him re the agreement & he wasn't bothered in the slightest as he said that was the only time he could do it due to his parents dropping him off & picking him up. All the time there are those with their own excuse as to why it isn't an issue to them there will be potential problems. I suspect that even if it had been against the law he'd have risked it as it would have added to the challenge & adrenalin hit he was looking for.
Due to the ridiculous system for rights of way in England and Wales
Try living outside of the UK.....
Since we are ‘banned’ from virtually all the good, natural trails in the UK owing to them being footpaths
Speak for yourself.
I just find the idea of bans and restrictions mental. If people are coming to ride down a hill, it means there a market there and that could be an operchancity to help boost the local economy.
Rather than restrict access, open it up, build more trails. everyones happen. (well apart from the people that think uk hills and uplands are natural undiscovered wild areas! 😆 )
Misread this title and thought there was a ban on riding Swindon for a moment!
I have no idea of the history, as I've never been to Snowdonia, but I was up Ben Nevis on saturday, and the idea of taking bike anywhere near that place with that many people is a bit daft. I reckon there were over 1000 people on the hill the same time as us, most of them too ignorant to respond to a cheery 'morning' never mind someone on a bike.
I see the keyboard warriors are out in force this morning.
You don't know man, you weren't there!
I'll put my hand up and state I've yet to go up any UK mountain by any means (king of regret these days not climbing Cader Idris when we lived in Dolgellau in the early 1980s when I was a nipper), but given how Snowdon is the highest peak in Wales, could the national Trust (or whoever owns the land surrounding the peak) not provide two cyclist only routes... One going up, one going down?
Charge a (small?) fee to upkeep the bike-only routes, winner winner chicken dinner! 😉
, could the national Trust (or whoever owns the land surrounding the peak) not provide two cyclist only routes… One going up, one going down?
Charge a (small?)
Want to put the quote in per m for building it 😉
The whole point of taking your mountain bike to the mountains is that they are not bike park / trail centres. We have plenty of those and they are great. Riding big mountains is a completely different undertaking. More wild, remote, unforgiving, even dangerous. We definitely don't need bike trails on them. That would remove the whole reason for visiting.
More wild, remote, dangerous.
It's Snowdon! It's got a path all the way and a cafe at the top!
There's plenty of remote and wild riding round there but Snowdon isn't it
Want to put the quote in per m for building it
They are resurfacing (well putting in a surface that isn't mud) part of the Leeds-Liverpool canal towpath, cost is somewhere between £150,000 and £200,000 for 2.7km. I've heard of costs of £100 per metre for canal towpath work, doing something similar up a mountain and making it fit in it going to be at least as much.
I wonder how many people in this thread have actually ridden up Snowdon and how many are suffering from "internet outrage" about someone daring to restrict their riding?
I rode up a couple of years back on the last weekend before the summer restrictions came into place and can offer a few insights:
- There was still plenty of snow at the top, even relatively far into the year. Perfectly rideable, but some sections of the village path were a push as a result
- The cafe was still closed. They had only cut the train through the snow a couple of days earlier. Not sure if this is typical.
- There were loads of people out even then. We rode down the ranger's path and this wasn't so bad, but the village path would have been a constant dodge of people. I can't begin to think what it would be like in August
- Some people were riding down the ranger's path like it was a closed downhill course and almost scattering walkers as they went. Really poor form and, frankly, they were a bunch of cocks. Really sad to have seen this.
- I didn't find it so hard to adhere to the rules - we simply arranged a trip to coincide with the last weekend of open access and rode up. I am very grateful for the campaigners who have worked hard to ensure that this access is maintained and certainly wouldn't have ridden up during the restriction.
- It was pretty obvious from talking to other people that it was a pretty fragile arrangement and that it wouldn't take a lot for the whole mountain to be reclassified as "footpaths" and bikes to be eradicated altogether. This would have been a shame.
- Bugger me, it's a bloody winch up! I've done it, I wouldn't feel a need to do it again...
Come on people - it's not so hard. Ride up in the off-season, or make an early morning / late evening of it and then we can all enjoy biking up Snowdon for years to come.
It’s Snowdon! It’s got a path all the way and a cafe at the top!
There’s plenty of remote and wild riding round there but Snowdon isn’t it
I said mountains - I didn't specify which one!
I wonder how many people in this thread have actually ridden up Snowdon and how many are suffering from “internet outrage” about someone daring to restrict their riding?
Probably 8 to 10 times sometimes cut short as it was Feb and common sense was a thing.
Again wouldn't want to do it between 10 and 5 on a mice day. Done some early morning missions up there and even comity down a out 9 was too.busy to really enjoy the lower sections.
P Jay – no it’s not ok to go up at 3, that’s why the ban is 10-5. Why did you think that would be ok, was the ban not clear? Post 5 gives more than enough time to get up and down and makes for quiet trails.
I don't think that's right, whilst I've never seen a sub-section to the rules that says "pushing is okay" I've looked into it a few times and most people agreed it was within the rules and the spirit of the agreement.
I'm sensing a lot of hostility around Snowdon, a lot of anti-walker, anti-'tourist' feeling and perception that there's a lot of anti-cyclist feeling.
Truthfully, we must have spoken to a dozen groups of descending walkers on way up. I sensed a few disapproving looks, but my Mate reckons it was just me being paranoid. Everyone we spoke to was friendly, most asked in a joking fashion why we were carrying / pushing bikes and not riding and we'd explain why, no one said anything negative and no one, made an arse of themselves to slow us up. We smiled and said hello and everyone else did the same, even the ones in Gortex and walking sticks.
As for time, we set off at 2ish hoping / expecting a 2 ish hour climb, sit in the cafe for a bit and descend. It actually took just over 3 hours, by the time we scoffed some food and took some pics etc we didn't set back down till 7ish. Due to getting lost and a bit of a crash we didn't get back to the van until it was getting dark. We didn't see a soul on the Rangers Path.
Frankly, if anyone is considering it, it's worth considering if it's actually worth it. For us it was a almost a box to tick. It's not easy shoving your bike up. We read some on-line guide (Might have been MBR) which talks about an easy pedal up, it's really not, it's very steep in parts, merely steep in others and very loose rocky and a challenging, but fun descent on Rangers, I'll be honest and after the initial ride down from the top it was beyond me, very loose, rocks of every size from golf balls to golf cars in size, blind drops from a few inches to shoulder height. Admittedly due to the whole getting lost thing we missed the lower rangers and telegraph, maybe it was especially hard as it was just so dry everything was loose, but I spent more time tripoding trying to find lines than riding.
I'm glad I did it, I had a great day out, but I've had a lot more fun at Antor or Coed which was pretty close.
I’ve ridden a few mountains and would not like to ride them busy or even less than busy. It not only has safety implications but ruins your ride as you have to slow down. I decended Ben lomond after 6.20pm and still had about 4 groups of people to slow down for.
http://www.mbr.co.uk/news/trail_news/snowdon-bike-access-risk-375686
I can't spell this out any clearer. Don't frikken ride during the voluntary ban.
I comply with the current agreement. However, the agreement is very one-sided. I don’t have a problem with a reasonable degree of bias towards the larger user group - but the current agreement is by no means as balanced as it should be.
I am also unsure that this agreement is helpful to the wider-debate of access. To my mind it reinforces the attitude that people who cycle are a marginal group that represent a danger to others using the outdoors and are generally have an undesired impact on the environment. Education and awareness would deliver a better long-term result IMHO.