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I've decided to fully embrace the fact that I'm at best a fair weather cyclist. I hate riding in the rain, and even sacked off riding on Monday due to the wind.
10 years ago when I was racing I used to use a turbo a couple of times a week to fairly good effect. This was a basic Tacx trainer that required you to get of to manually alter the resistance. Obviously times have changed somewhat!
So I'd like a smart trainer and possibly zwift to keep me bike fit. I think that I'd enjoy the race/social aspect of zwift....from what I've read of the training plans, then probably not so much with those. I don't really have a lifestyle that fits a regimented training x amount on y day every week.
I've got laptop/smart phone/tablet etc and a Garmin Edge plus hrm. I'd be using my flat bar gravel bike on it. 42 x 11 gearing.
What sort of stuff should I be looking at? Are there loads of post lockdown bargain smart trainers to be had? Any particular risks buying a secondhand smart trainer?
I'm really not much of a fan of tech nor investing time in learning more than the basics of these things, so a relatively simple setup up would be ideal. Budget can be whatever I guess, but I'm a skin fling at heart and £500 is what I've got in mind.
The race/social aspect of Zwift is what makes it unique, it works well but the STW stuff (casual meet-ups, races etc) since Covid has taken it to another level of (painful) fun, because it's not just different randoms all the time. So definitely get involved with that if you get into Zwift! There are a few different long-running threads now.
No idea about the current trainer market but defo try to get wheel-off if you can, so much better. I bought an original Tacx Neo which wasn't cheap but looking back, definitely worth it, it's so good, had loads of use out of it & totally hassle free (no calibration needed etc)
Tablet or laptop is fine - I used an iPad for the first few years - now upgraded to Apple TV & big telly in garage which is awesome, really immersive!
Just make sure you can't run out of gears on the flat, that would be really frustrating, you can reach some serious speeds in the peloton that you'd never realistically attain IRL!
Elite Direto is £500 at Wiggle; just remember to factor in a new cassette unless you like lots of swapping around ! My only concern would be whether 42x11 would give you sufficiently tall gears to make the most of it on the flats; but that's probably close to a 50x13 and I tend not to use the 12/11 cogs very often on my road bike..
Ah I'd overlooked the need for a cassette! Can you get a cheap 11 speed with a 10t?
wrt the social aspect....are you guys chatting to each other via the app or something? Apologies if that sounds daft, not really sure how it works.
Cheers for the info though, Elite Direto was what I'd got my eye on. Seen a Tacx Neo2 for 750....would I notice much difference?
I got my refurb Kickr Core for that but there was a TdF sale on. It does the power/cadence bit, have a basic bluetooth HRM strap (optional but nice to have), run Zwift on iPad. And a basic fan. Swapped cassette over because I'm not likely to go out on that bike till the Spring.
Gearing doesn't really matter, for workouts the trainer is in ERG mode where it controls the power eg you're doing 200W for 3 minutes - trainer gives enough resistance to hit 200W. So you just leave it in one gear and go.
Pretty much all the trainers are standard Shimano driver, so 11 speed, 11t bottom are your limit.
You can always turn down the trainer difficulty setting, it just affects how much of the inclines/declines you feel through the trainer.
Elite Direto would be a good trainer to go for.
Have you looked on ebay for second hand options if you are trying to keep costs down.
What laptop/tablet/smartphone do you have? Apple or Windows/Android-based?
It's worth just trying to download & install Zwift on the tablet &/or laptop & see what happens. If running an Android tablet & it's not compatible with Zwift, it won't be available in the Play store.
Don't mix it up with the Zwift Companion app - that will run on virtually any mobile I think & is what is generally used for messaging while zwifting.
For events like TT races, people use discord to communicate & keep the group together.
Other things to think about are a heart-rate monitor, a large fan & some sweat bands.
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/elite-direto-smart-turbo-trainer/rp-prod177808 £450 with SALE10 code that ends tomorrow
Gearing doesn’t really matter, for workouts the trainer is in ERG mode where it controls the power eg you’re doing 200W for 3 minutes – trainer gives enough resistance to hit 200W. So you just leave it in one gear and go.
That won't work with Zwift, or if you want to do an FTP test.
Make sure your smart trainer covers all the stuff you need ie power, cadence, speed etc, not all do so you can have to end up buying more devices.
I already had a Garmin watch for HR
I use and an iphone with lighting cable to hdmi TV and works fine.
Other than that as above a fan, doesnt have to expensive but as big as you want to afford. I just use a desktop 12" fan on a low shelf blowing up.
and then a towel over the bars and top tube and another towel for mopping face etc.
Have a look at Rouvy/FulGaz too. They offer riding on real roads virtually, I just find that much more engaging that Zwift and an artificial world. Rouvy races are good for group rides, but the standard is pretty high !
10 years ago when I was racing I used to use a turbo a couple of times a week to fairly good effect. This was a basic Tacx trainer that required you to get of to manually alter the resistance. Obviously times have changed somewhat!
My old trainer was like that, and I only ever managed 1hr max, as it just all felt so false. However so far my record is 2.5hrs on my Wahoo Kickr. The difference was that the smart trainer makes it feel so much more natural and engaging than a non smart.
What sort of stuff should I be looking at? Are there loads of post lockdown bargain smart trainers to be had?
Yes, have a look on ebay. There's a lot of buy it now's at what look like sensible prices, but if you look at the slightly less popular trainers (Saris H3 , Elite Drivo, etc) that are listed as auctions they've been selling for <£250! Wahoo Kickers seem to hold their value, probably because they haven't been updated in a long while so 5 year old trainers appear "new" whereas an Elite Drivo bought over lockdown last year for £800 looks 5 years old because it's not sold anymore.
Any particular risks buying a secondhand smart trainer?
The Drivo gets noisy and needs a bit of silicone grease on the belt to keep it quiet. Other than that any trainer will eventually fail apparently at random either belts, bearings, brackets or electronics. Fundamentally they all work the same, a flywheel, connected to another flywheel via a belt and multiplying pulleys, and an electronic brake controlled by a stepper motor.
I’m really not much of a fan of tech nor investing time in learning more than the basics of these things, so a relatively simple setup up would be ideal. Budget can be whatever I guess, but I’m a skin fling at heart and £500 is what I’ve got in mind.
I got a BKool wheel on trainer for free (see, prices really have crashed), updating to zwift compatible firmware was a minor faff* but the only real expense was a laptop to run it at high resolution/frame rates. Apple TV and the phone/tablet app also work, but limit you to the basic graphics settings.
*the firmware exists, but BKool no longer support the trainer so the app won't update it, you have to find the old Bkool software from a 3rd party website, then change the config file to the latest version number so it will boot up without trying to do an update. Then you can plug the trainer in and it will flash it with the correct firmware.
@binners will surely be along shortly with his (sound) suggestion that you make your way to FB marketplace.
My 2p:
Get a wheel off / direct drive. The difference is night and day.
If you buy new, don't pay extra for an included cassette if you aren't running 11sp (although I think you are?)
@robbo1234biking organises and races (and flourishes) in the STW race series using a bike with gravel gearing. He can tell you the upshot better than me, but I think it only holds him back at sprints.
Some mega info here folks, so thank you all so much.
Interesting about the Elite Drivo.....it looks like it was crafted in the early 90's by Packard Bell!
^that is only 20 minutes away from me. Worth a punt? I'll have a peruse on marketplace. Don't really do Facebook anymore.
I've got a hrm for my garmin, think I have a cadence sensor somewhere too. Will the trainer do the power stuff then?
yeah there's text messaging via the companion phone app or on your laptop running Zwift or whatever, bit of banter on the start line, but then some of the guys seem to be able to chat merrily away mid-race whereas I'm blowing out my arse just struggling to keep on someone's wheel let alone type out messages!! There's also a lot of pre/post race bantz/analysis/etc on the threads here.wrt the social aspect….are you guys chatting to each other via the app or something? Apologies if that sounds daft, not really sure how it works.
naaaaaaah, ignore this, leave real roads for real life rides - Zwift is ace, join the STW bumblebees 🐝🐝🐝 🤣Have a look at Rouvy/FulGaz too. They offer riding on real roads virtually, I just find that much more engaging that Zwift and an artificial world.
yes, a smart trainer will appear on Zwift as a BT power meter, basicallyI’ve got a hrm for my garmin, think I have a cadence sensor somewhere too. Will the trainer do the power stuff then?
The smart trainer will do power, cadence, speed leaving just a HRM to connect.
Don't ask me how they measure cadence. Black magic, I think.
Not all do cadence
I use a 46 up front and get away with it on decent power outputs on the flat but I do have a fast cadence (90+). If you are more of a grinder you might struggle to get a good power output depending how strong you are as a rider. I do struggle with sprints but that could be poor technique as much as anything!
This is assuming you plan to use zwift for racing. For group rides and erg mode you will be fine. And by decent power output up to 400w is fine at about 100rpm on my set up. Higher power outputs require a quicker spin.
I'm not really back to any type of bike fitness currently. I returned to cycling last year after 5 years away. Was doing well fitness wise I thought, nothing like my early twenties racing fitness levels mind. Then Covid completely kicked my arse in August, so just getting back going again now.
Historically I was very fast uphill, and rode with a fairly high cadence. Sprinting was never my thing at all, can't imagine that that will change much nowadays!
Seems like the zwift app will work on my tablet. Laptop is a fairly ancient 2015 thing now! Only on Windows 7, not sure if that will be an issue. Fan shouldn't be necessary at the minute as I'll be using it outside/in the bare shell of our barn conversion that we're doing! In a few months time when it's somewhat more, I'll be able to setup zwift on my PC with a decent sized monitor.
What would be consider a 'fair' price for that Elite Drivo that I linked do we think? £350? Need to wait until the boss finishes work to clarify the exact budget. I'm owed a birthday and Christmas present though 😂
Fan shouldn’t be necessary at the minute as I’ll be using it outside/in the bare shell of our barn conversion that we’re doing!
Remember this when you're literally dripping with sweat an hour into a session. Even if it's cold where you zwift, you'll need a fan. Overheating isn't fun.
^^^ yup. It might be cold, but you’re not actually moving - unless it’s whipping up a gale outside, you need airflow!
My turbo is set up in the garage.
Even when it's 2deg outside I use a fan.
I don't think Zwift will run on Win7 anymore.
There's a computer requirements table somewhere on the Zwift website.
My 10yr old laptop runs Zwift although only.on basic quality. It has been upgraded to Win10 though.
https://support.zwift.com/en_us/supported-devices-to-run-zwift-H1Cj9QbeB
Win 10 64-bit or later.
You can still upgrade for free and no reason not to IMO. https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/
I bought a kickr core a year ago after getting frustrated with all the lockdowns. Have to say i quite enjoy it. Tried zwift on the laptop but discovered it is too old and laggy to run it properly. Currently use an old huawei phone which worls ok. It is too small, some of the small numbers a bit hard to see but it works overall. Have a spare tv which i will link it up to once i get round to it.
I use it on an 11 speed mountain bike. The gearing is not great. Find myself in the hardest gear a lot of the time. 34 x 11. Currently considering buying a cheap or broken road bike to use it on.
Fully impressed with kickr core though.
Apple tv is probably the best ratio of cheap:quality...
Not as plush as my gaming pc... but way cheaper.
DrP
Fair weather cyclist and runner here, last straw was a forecasted sunny day, went to run and it was torrential rain, came back inside and ordered the Elite direto X from CRC in November(which they now dont sell but halfords does).
I already had a garmin HRM and 530, had to amend the wheel size in the elite app after the first ride but has been fine since. I havent as of yet started using Zwift or Rouvy or Trainer Road, I've just been doing intervals of varying lengths or easy rides, I did get stuck the other day and found a site called whatsonzwift.com and it shows all workouts on zwift, I've been scanning some of the FTP builer or dirt destroyer weeks and pinching some workout ideas from there. I use the level mode on the trainer with a few levels of resistance applied then use the gears as per normal to hit diff power zones.
EDIT: I find doing the above with a high tempo playlist I have made is enough to get me through up to 90mins on the trainer
Question re: Directo v Neo2. I have the former and my bro the latter. Mine has done around 5000km and apart from the squeaky belt (which just needs a bit of silicon spray as per previous comment) its been rock solid. My bro's is 'nicer' in that it seems to respond to gradient changes a bit better, and it's definitely faster to change in ERG mode.
I saw the Neo 2Ts for £750 as well and personally I can't justify it. But if I didn't have a trainer, at that price I'd have one over the Directo.
I've got a direto X and have been doing a lot of workouts in ERG mode, it does take a second or 2 for the resistance to change when going from a 100w section to a 250w interval, but it's never been long enough to trouble me.
For the 10s intervals I'd just start cranking with a second to go and by the time I'm putting out the required power the trainer has caught up.
The only issue I've had is when asked to do 65w at 100rpm, I think 65w is basically the minimum resistance so any attempt to increase cadence saw me at 80-100w. That's the training plans fault.
The slow response in ERG mode could be to do with Zwift's ERG mode more than the trainer. In TrainerRoad I find it responds fine but if I do a similar workout in Zwift I find it slower to respond. I just dont think Zwift controls erg mode as well.
FOr the 65w issue - what gear are you using? If you are using the big ring up front then try using the little ring instead. It should go lower than 65w but each gear will have a minimum and maximum power output dependent upon the RPM. This graph below shows it for the Direto.
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I did the early bit of Zwift's Ramp Test Lite the other day as a gentle ERG cooldown of sorts, using my 4iiii for power readings, which is whyy the readings are a bit erratic. It starts at 50W and increases by 10W every minute, it works reasonably, albeit I was only doing 70-odd cadence.
https://www.strava.com/activities/6594122679/analysis
As Dr P says for cheap and quality then Apple TV hard to beat. £80 for a used AppleTV4K from Cex and a £20 telly with a hdmi socket of gumtree makes a pretty good garage setup. The AppleTv remote is garbage though.
@binners will surely be along shortly with his (sound) suggestion that you make your way to FB marketplace.
Hi @savoyad
*waves*
There do seem to be an awful lot of them on FB Marketplace though. I picked up a TACX Vortex, complete with trainer tyre and ANT dongle, that were all like brand new, for £140. I've got my road bike on there and Zwift on a Macbook
I've just had a quick look and theres loads of turbo trainers on there. Wheel on and direct drive
Whatever you get, the best thing you can buy is one of these. You'll need it!
Cheers again for the fantastic advice here folks.
I've just won an Elite Drivo on ebay for £235 and it's only about 20 minutes away from me.
Is there anything that I should be looking out for when I collect? Given that it's not being sold with a cassette then a demo might be somewhat impractical.
FOr the 65w issue – what gear are you using? If you are using the big ring up front then try using the little ring instead. It should go lower than 65w but each gear will have a minimum and maximum power output dependent upon the RPM. This graph below shows it for the Direto.
Ahh ok, cheers - that makes sense. I would have been big ring and middle of the cassette.
Tbh I've only seen 3 or 4 intervals requiring 65w at 90-100rpm so it'll probably never come up again, but I'll know if it does now!
Fan shouldn’t be necessary at the minute as I’ll be using it outside/in the bare shell of our barn conversion that we’re doing!
lol
Enjoy your new turbo, they're horrible things but great at the same time 😀
RGT is worth trying imo. Couldn't stand the gamey nature of Zwift, I don't want to choose power ups whilst racing
Quick heads up - the Direto is now down to £425 on Wiggle / CRC (maybe a bit more off if you're a 'new' customer)
"Any particular risks buying a secondhand smart trainer?"
Yes, early failure is not uncommon, are generally not user-serviceable, and warranties are very important. I think all the main devices (Kickr, Neo, Flux etc) have online groups discussing all the various ways in which they fail. Neo is probably the most reliable but there are still lots of stories of people being on their 3rd, 4th etc.
I've recently switched from laptop to Apple TV and a (used) PC monitor. Start up is much faster, the connection much more stable and the graphics are smoother. altogether a better experience.
Good luck though. Zwift racing/riding makes me go far far deeper than any other form of riding. "I'll just try to hang on to this group, oh actually, maybe with a massive effort i could bridge across to them, i wonder if i can hold this power all the way to the top, I can never maintain this effort for another 10km..."