You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I’m being asked about Xmas presents and I Need a new sleeping bag for touring next year .. spring through to autumn time I guess... I’ve got panniers so don’t need anything mega tiny and lightweight but equally I’d like to keep it reasonably packable.
Alpkit Pipedream seems well reviewed ..anybody use one? Would the 200 do?
There’s £20 off at the mo which is quite generous for Alpkit!
anything else to consider?
Oh, need a sleeping mat too if you want to Chuck any recommendations my way in that respect !
The 200 isn't a warm bag.
It's very generous with its ratings.
I have one. Should have bought something else.
I have north face bags too and I find them to be conservative with their ratings.
The 400 is a solid 3 season bag IMO.
200 does me for mostly summer touring but if I wanted a solid three season bag the 400 is great. (OH is comfortable one grade of sleeping bag warmer than me in pretty much all conditions so we have a nice spread).
Unless I was expecting cold weather I’d be happy with the 200 and potentially chucking on a jumper if I got caught out for ‘late spring to early autumn’. Proper 3 season and I’d definitely go for the 400. 400 is just a good all round bag.
I had a 400. Only used it once, it was around 5' outside, I was using a decent mat and a silk liner. I was wearing a base layer top and bottom and a fleece. I was cold so I put on a light down jacket then I was just OK.
It was also too short. It is 190cm long but despite being 182cm tall when pulled the hood cord tight it was too short for me, I couldn't lie straight.
Alpkit were excellent and let me buy the 600 tall version at a discount. I sold the 400 for a good price so wasn't out of pocket. The 600 tall is excellent - perfect for me.
Thanks for the replies.
I’d definitely need the long version then being 6’ 1”!
200 is usefully small/light but as said you need to be prepared to beef it up with extra layers in the shoulder months either side of summer. If I expected single digit temperatures overnight it would not be my first choice.
Also have alpkit mats - dumo, relatively big pack size but v comfy. Cloudbase does the job but a lot smaller to pack. If space/weight allows the dumo always gets the nod. I'm in the market for a scottish winter more extreme condition mat and my eyes are watering at the step up in price needed.
I was cold in central France in August using a 200.
I’d say go 400 for something more suited to U.K. temps.
Depends on budget but I’ve got a Mountain Equipment Xero 250 which have now been replaced by the newer Helium range but same design generally.
For its weight and pack size it’s superbly warm, good quality down and whilst the fabric looks delicate (you can see the down through it), it’s robust enough and never had any issues with it when bivvying or bikepacking.
Depends on budget but I’ve got a Mountain Equipment Xero 250 which have now been replaced by the newer Helium range but same design generally.
My wife has a Helium 400 which is lovely. I think I might get a 250 for touring.
I'm eyeing up a Thermarest quilt:
Thanks everybody.
That ME Helium looks like a nice bit of kit too so could be another option to look at.
Cheers
Assuming the x00 refers to grammes of down?
Quite surprised that people talking about 400g being three season. Either ducks have got far better at heat retention over the last 20 years or I'm going soft.
I often wonder if one of those survival suits might do the job. The ability to wander around in your sleeping gear can't be underestimated. 🙂
When sleeping a suit would be colder than similar weight sleeping bag but might be nice in some environment.
Also ME Helium is good but regular size is quite small for it's size.
The "problem" with survival suits is that there's a lot more surface area and consequently insulation required. Think along the lines of gloves vs mittens.
@thegeneralist - usually the x00 refers to the amount of down but of course not all down is created equal. Alpkit currently use 750fp down with a 90/10 down/feathers ratio. What you actually need is how that converts to "loft" since it's that that relates to how warm the bag is. Alpkit quote a tested EN13537 Comfort Limit of -4C for the 400 but how that relates to how warm you will feel in it at that temperature can only be determined by yourself - there's a few real life factors like tiredness and hunger to take into account as well. My take on the EN13537/ISO23537 ratings are that cold sleepers should look at the Comfort rating and warm sleepers should look at the Limit rating.
Also the amount of down is only half the story, the shell material also makes a difference in how the bag feels and how small you can pack it. The Pipedream series use 20D fabric which is both relatively heavy and harder to pack down. Pricier bags tend to use 10D fabric and the super light/super expensive ones use 7D. Of course with that lightness comes a loss of durability so you need to take a bit more care with those bags but then if you are dropping a grand or so for one I think that's a given!
OP - Sleeping mat, get an Exped Synmat Hyperlite - https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/sleeping-mats-c58/all-sleeping-mats-c146/exped-synmat-hl-m-regular-sleeping-mat-p6656 . Just 365g and packs down to about the size of a 750ml water bottle. My wife's used hers down to -16C so will cope with most conditions you are likely to find.
I used a Rab Neutrino Pro 200 [also 90/10] with the cheapest Alpkit bivvy bag for the Sandstone Way. First night it was 7 or 8 up on Hadrians Wall. The other two nights I used it it was fine so ok above 10cc. It wouldn't be my choice in a mountainous region. I used to have a Mountain Equipment three season bag, which wasn't so I'd echo others as to the generosity of makers' ratings.
The other two nights I used it it was fine so ok above 10cc.
Crikey, your own 70s soft-rock bivy entertainment 😄
I have a Rab Infinity 500 and its small warm and very light. I was really lucky it was on special offer for £200 at Snow and Rock, to this day I am sure they got the price wrong on it 🙂
I have a now well used 400 and also find the alpkit ratings a bit generous. When coming to buy a lighter bag I had considered a 200 as well. Bought a Cumulous Light Line 200 for similar money in the end and the quality is definitely better and the warmth is not that far off the old alpkit 400. Wouldn't be in a rush to buy another pipedream.
I replaceed my 25 year old rab bag with a ME Helium 400 in long, and have to say its a great bag. I originally bought the alpkit PD 400 and ended up sending it back as the baffles were crap - particularly the neck one. The ME is so much better in terms of quality for (at the time) £20 more. Also, the lining is really comfy - I never thought that would make a difference but it does. Agree its not a true 3 season - I'd use it in the UK hills April to October, down to about 4 degrees. Kind of wish I'd got the 600 for versatility, but at the time low weight seemed more important [rolls eyes]
Oh, I'm 6'2 and the long version is plenty long enough
I've got a Pipedream 400 that I bought about 6 years ago (think it was £150 at the time, recent price increases may make it less competitive against other manufacturers, but at the time there wasn't much other choice at that price point). I've not felt the need to upgrade it for UK 3 season bikepacking. Must have used it for 50/60 nights now and I've been out to about -5* with a down jacket/thermals/liner to boost it. I'm 5'11" and the regular version is long enough for me. I do use it with a decent Exped Synmat though which helps.
One issue I had (although definitely user error in hindsight), was ripping a couple of the internal mesh baffles while hand washing it in the bath, despite trying to be careful with it. This let some of the down migrate around the bag and left some bare patches. Remedied it by cutting open some of the baffles, adding an additional 100g of down from extremtextil.de and sewing it back up, so I suppose it's a Pipedream 500 now..
I’m eyeing up a Thermarest quilt:
If you're using a quilt and sleeping directly on your mat are you wearing long johns etc? Are mats not a bit plasticky and clammy to sleep skin on mat? I quite like the idea of a quilt but the coziness of being cocooned in a bag feels nice.
I did 100 straight nights in a 200g fill Rab neutrino and was cold every night. I should have known better as I'd already done 25 in it and was only warm on the nights you only really needed a silk liner to sleep in. We were trekking across Europe, generally lowish level, from the UK to Rome. IMO it isn't really enough - you can mitigate with a decent sleeping mat, extra thermals etc but if you are hoping to span spring to autumn you need more. I now have a 300g Phd bag that was worth every penny (a lot) but I fully anticipate it being the last one I buy.
For a mat I have a Neoair extherm and can't really fault it. It was a toss up between that and an Exped downmat/synmat. I think the exped may be slightly more comfortable as the baffles run length ways rather than across and are a bit more stable. But I figured the extherm wouldn't mind being blown up by mouth, so I went for that. Probably done a couple of hundred nights on it now, it's been ripped and punctured a few times but repairs quickly and easily. Even when drunk. It weighs nothing and packs up smaller than a can of pop (think its a short version).
Worth looking at Sea to Summit Spark SP2. Love mine, have slept in it down to freezing temps without dying, anything down to about 4 degrees its generally Ok and crazy small and light.
Thanks but that Sea to Summit looks like it’s another £100 ish more than the Alpkit / ME options .. that’s more than I’m happy to spend.
Rab NEUTRINO 200 is THE bag for cycle touring, without spending ££££
If you’re using a quilt and sleeping directly on your mat are you wearing long johns etc? Are mats not a bit plasticky and clammy to sleep skin on mat? I quite like the idea of a quilt but the coziness of being cocooned in a bag feels nice.
Yes, I do, in fact the temp ratings of bags assumes that you are wearing a full base layer. There's no official standard like EN13537/ISO23537 for quilts but manufacturers like Cumulus sort of follow that and IME aren't too far out with their ratings/claims.
I have a PD400 - not used it that much, I made the mistake of using it from the off without real trial out - I'd had a long day, was knackered - just rolled it out without warming myself up or fluffing it out. I was freezing! and this was May in Europe. Lesson learnt, but as above I'd not say it was a toasty bag. Luckily I have others and/or warm clothes to put on.
Ok, I got totally bogged down looking at sleeping bags since this post, tossing up between the Alpkit Pipedream 400 and a ME Helium 250 (£204).
In all honesty I don’t want to spend a fortune and truth be told I don’t need anything ultralight either - there’s plenty of pannier space for the kind of trips I’ll be doing so after watching two videos on the Alpkit Skyehigh 700 at the weekend I’ve ordered a Skyehigh 500.
Yep it’s a bit heavier and bulkier but the videos showed me that it can be compressed to a pretty decent size that should do me. Time will tell if I’ve made a bad choice but I need a new bag anyway.
£20 off in the current sale + £20 xmas voucher so it’s cost me £120. Happy to stick some pics on when it turns up.