[Closed] Slackline / Soul longshot owners out there - help!

The latest BFe sounds more suitable, but it may be time to accept that it’s new wheels time, sadly.

There is a new Slackline -Next Gen 3 on the horizon,hit the news recently due to a prototype being stolen that may solve your dilemma(no geo released yet as far as I know but the BB drop looks less than mine on it) although I reckon clearance could be fine on the older frame-I have the current Next Gen version .I like running a 150mm fork(worked really well for me with a 160mm too) on mine that raises the BB a tad :
Next Gen 3

I'm 5'10 and have the latest soul in large. It's the most agile bike I've ever had (previously had a mk2 solaris and 26" soul). Not sure how well it would run on 26" wheels though, I'm running 27.5" on mine with 2.6 tyres.

I will put my 26 wheels in my gen 5 BFe when I go for a ride later. Won’t be any jumps or tech stuff but I will see what obstacles I can test bb height with.

My BFe 275 has the 26 wheels in all the time and is more agile for it.

Yeah, I'd probably be looking at new wheels as I can't imagine 26" wheels and tyres will work especially well with this generation of frames looking at the huge tyres and crank length they're designed for. Happy to be proved wrong though.

I saw the next gen 3 and wondered how different it would be. I am guessing it’s going to have a longer TT.

Interesting to hear the new Longshot geo is still playful.

bsims, let us know how you get on today!

I will most run 26 for a small while and upgrade to 275 wheels and fork at some point next year.

You can get away with a rear 26, and maybe even both 26 with short cranks, but using both AND a 26 fork will be pedal clashtastic. The move to 275 forks was used by manufactures to greatly increase fork length for a given travel.

Don’t forget the boost issues as well.
[sad face]

I have a new BFe (well not the absolute newest now, but minimal changes) initially ran with a full 26 setup including forks as that's what was in the spares box.

It is a 'bit' nicer to ride with the 27.5 now, maybe rolls a bit faster and feels better on my more xc rides but to be honest the 26 was still good.

The BFe does feel like a tank though. I love it but suspect if you wanted springy lively steel it's not the right bike.

“You can get away with a rear 26, and maybe even both 26 with short cranks, but using both AND a 26 fork will be pedal clashtastic. The move to 275 forks was used by manufactures to greatly increase fork length for a given travel.”

I’m pretty certain that a 27.5” Pike is only 10mm longer A2C than a 26” Pike of the same travel. Even if it’s 20mm, then a current Soul with 140mm 26” Pikes would have the same geometry as with 27.5 120mm Pikes, so 67/73 angles and 43mm BB drop at sag.

With 26” wheels (and the equivalent tyres) as a 27.5” bike that’ll put the BB at the same height as a 27.5” hardtail with a 56mm BB drop. Conveniently I have a 27.5” hardtail with a 62mm BB drop. It works great, it’s definitely low but not too low.

The Cotic hardtails are all on the higher side of BB heights - I don’t think they’re too high, it’s just a different balance of compromises. But it does mean that you can run 26” wheels on a 27.5” frame and them not be too low, in fact still higher than a Stanton or Bird with 27.5 wheels on a 27.5 frame.

I’m pretty certain that a 27.5” Pike is only 10mm longer A2C than a 26” Pike of the same travel.

True of the ‘new’ Pikes, yes. Not true of older 26 forks compared to what replaced them.

26 wheels and a 26 fork will normally end up really low on the latest Soul (or BFe). Nothing super short cranks couldn’t mitigate, but I imagine his only reason for using the 26 kit is to avoid buying new stuff to get the frame going, so won’t want to buy short cranks.

BB drop at sag

Forks don’t stay at sag height during a ride, they move through their travel.

I’d suggest a new frame and fork… wheels later if need be… although the boost question might make that all a bit of faff and getting new wheels the easiest way forward, sadly.

Of course I should be saying “buy a Soul frame right now, worry about needing to buy anything else for the build later”, but I’m just trying to help.

That’s the answer… order a Soul frame now, try and put your stuff on it, worry about the boost compatibility issues and possible pedal clashes later.

I have my thin flat pedal recommendation ready…

“True of the ‘new’ Pikes, yes. Not true of older 26 forks compared to what replaced them.”

I think that’s because most forks have got burlier and tyre size has increased too. The old 36s and Lyriks were long too, but 32s and Revs and Rebas were shorter.

“Forks don’t stay at sag height, they move through the travel.”

Yes, the 150mm ones on my hardtail will drop the BB even more when bottomed out.

We’re only talking about a 12.5mm difference in wheel radius between 26” and 27.5” - that’s well within typical BB height variations on similar bikes.

I think that’s because most forks have got burlier and tyre size has increased too.

Exactly that. The change in wheelsize was a golden opportunity to escape from old norms about a2c vs travel issues, and increase both upper/lower overlap and tyre/crown clearance. Manufacturers jumped on that chance. Genuinely useful improvements were gained.

Yes, the 150mm ones on my hardtail will drop the BB even more when bottomed out.

Exactly. So, when compressed, a 26 fork will end up shorter than a 275 fork, even if the 26 has a bit more travel, so bb height when landing jumps and popping of drops etc will be lower. Add that to using a front 26 wheel as well, and it could be an issue for the OP given how he has described his riding.

We’re only talking about a 12.5mm difference in wheel radius between 26” and 27.5”

Yes, which is why using 26 wheels is doable, but when compounded with also using a 26 fork, might not be.

Again, I’d suggest new forks with the frame OP. And check the boost situation with the old wheels going into the new fork and frame.

But buy a Soul or BFe frame right now, and help feed my children, and worry about forks and wheels later.

= 87)

Sooo I had made a long reply about some crazy man maths before the iPad died..

Let’s assume my current frame could take 275 wheels and fork. The bfe26 has a 17.6mm drop with a 140mm fork at 25% sag. Let’s call the current BB height ‘X’, as I don’t know what this is.

If we put 275 wheels into my frame, this will increase the BB height by around 15mm. If we put a 275 140mm fork into my frame, this will increase the BB height by another 10mm or so. So, to achieve ‘X’ you would need to drop the BB by a further 25mm or so, Totalling to a 42.6mm BB drop. With 140mm forks; The soul has a 38mm drop, the Slackline 51mm.

This means the Soul with my 26 gear will have a bottom bracket height which is 20.4mm lower than my current ‘X’.

The Slackline with my 26 gear will have a bottom bracket height which is 33.5mm lower than my current ‘X’.

Given that either of these frames could be run with 100mm fork and 2.2 tyres, the difference could be even smaller.

Given a couple other 26 dedicated frames have a lower BB than my bfe (BTR ranger has a BB drop of 42mm which is 25mm lower than my current bike!)

Man maths gone crazy?

How long are your cranks? What pedals do you use? Are your hubs boost?

Remember, many current frames, including the three you mention, are already designed to have the BB lower to the ground than your BFe26… and you’re looking at dropping them another 25mm+ on top of that.

I haven’t done the maths, but you’re looking at your pedals being 40mm+ closer to the ground when static, more when bottoming out your forks.

I had the new soul but sold it for a fs. If I could have kept it I would. It was a really fun bike to ride. I’m 5’9 ish and rode a medium. It had 120mm pikes and I had a long dropper so could get the saddle right out the way. It made for a brilliant chuckable bike. It was light too which made it easier to pop off things.
The only thing I didn’t like about it was the 2.6 tyres I put on it. The bike felt direct and nimble but the tyres squirmed too much. I had to put so much pressure in the rear there was no benefit to the big tyres. A 2.3 cured that.

All in all. If I had room for one I would get another in a heartbeat.

“If we put 275 wheels into my frame, this will increase the BB height by around 15mm. If we put a 275 140mm fork into my frame, this will increase the BB height by another 10mm or so.”

27.5 wheels (with equivalent tyres) will only increase the BB height by 12.5mm - and more importantly, a 27.5 140mm Pike is only 10mm longer than the same Pike in 26”, so that only lifts the BB by 4.5mm.

Total increase in BB height is thus only 17mm. It’s not a BIG difference. Obviously going 26” fork and wheels on any 27.5 frame will drop the BB by the same amount, 17mm. It’ll work well on bikes that already have higher BBs, it won’t on lower bikes.

My Zero AM (150mm fork and 27.5 wheels) is low - I wouldn’t ride it with smaller wheels. But it’s properly low - even with the big fork and wheels the BB height is a full 40mm lower than the BB height of my old Soul 26 with 140mm forks. 40mm. That is a lot!

Right, had a go. I was unable to measure anything as my tape measure was last seen in the garden with Micro and he has been digging holes all week so it has almost certainly been planted. Also I cant find any rulers.

Part 1

I put a 26 Fox 32 100mm on theront and measuring it against the 275 Sweep at 130mm it was 50-60 mm lower in AC. I rode it in circles around the garden and down the path and it felt horible, very twitchy but also too grippy which I think was my weight tipping formard. This meant I felt like I was going to fall off the front. I didn't want to smash my front teeth out for a internet forum annectdote, especially at this time. Also I dont think it would tell you much as the Fox 32s are very diiferent to Pikes at 140mm. Based on this I would agree with kelvin.

Part 2

With the Sweeps back on and the 26inch wheels fitted with Arch mk 3 with Ardent 2.4 front/ Flow EX with Ardent 2.25 rear.

It felt more angile and forward but this may have been because I was closer to the ground like being in an old Mini. In fact it rode fine but not in the same way that my BFe 275 with 26 inch wheels rides. With the BFe 275 I am more than happy to use 26in wheels until I can't get half decent 26in tyres anymore. The Gen 5 was just fine. I tried some undulating terrain in a small wooded area which has got some paths, nothing fancy. I got a couple of pedal strikes where I would not expect them (but on reflection I cant be sure as I don't often ride through there). Later, on a large steep roller in a path gap, I caught the chain wheel, never done that before. I had a further pedal strike on a turn that I know well and have not hit before, but maybee I was leaning more to see if I could do it subconciously.

If all you did was trail centres like Cannock and FOD I think there would be no probs, as others have said, but in rockier areas and with jumping there may be more problems, as Kelvin alluded too with the Longshot Geometry.

So I would say, based on a few hours, get a 275 fork and keep the 26 wheels so you can give them a try.

Did you really go out and try those options? That is ace! Above and beyond.

Obviously going 26” fork and wheels on any 27.5 frame will drop the BB by the same amount, 17mm.

Reasonable maths for the Pikes. Key thing is that his pedals won’t be just 17mm closer to the ground than he’s used to, as the new frames he is looking at are already lower than his current frame, with the wheels and forks they are designed for. He’s going to end up with low low pedals. Thin pedals and short cranks could make it work.

Advice again… get 275 frame and forks… and reuse the wheels for now if they are boostable.

[ edit: just buy a Soul frame and try it with all your old kit… but be ready to buy forks ]

@ kelvin - I havent got much else to do at the momment! Luckily I have a lots of bits that allowed me to help out. Given what some have done on here for others it wasnt much at all and has probalby helped me more than the op.

My first bike when we moved into a house with a garage had a Suntour coil fork which I broke quite quickly. The LBS suggested upgrading the bike, but I wanted to experiment, so bought the Fox 32, this quickly led to realising I needed some stiffer wheels so I got some Flows on pro 2 evos which led me to thinking about better cranks... which led to.....

Eventually I discovered a bike company whose gib I liked the cut of. After a conversation with Paul I went for a medium BFe 275, however, because I have a long back and short legs, nad/ top tube interfaces became more common as failures of talent became more common. Longshot geometry could have been designed for my body shape. I changed the BFe275 frame for a Gen 5 in small and swapped the bits from my old bike to the BFe 275 which became my general bike.

I then found the RL2 Sweep was too firm in mid range so upgraded to the Roughcut, however it is perfect at 100mm on the general bike as it doesn't bob much in mid range, but takes the sting out of square edges.

Looks like the current soul has around 8mm higher BB than the bfe from what I can see... might make enough of a difference.

DMR axe cranks are on offer at £70 atm so could pick up some 165 (running 175 Shimano SLX right now).

Another alternative frame looks to be the Production Privee Shan 27. You can get a 26 dropout to ‘lift’ the BB. Static Geometry says the 26 will have a 30mm drop. It might not fix my need for a lighter weight springier bike but it does have a longer ETT and reach. At least it’s not any heavier than my current bfe26.

The DMR cranks need a special BB IIRC, so don’t forget that in your costs.

“Another alternative frame looks to be the Production Privee Shan 27. You can get a 26 dropout to ‘lift’ the BB. Static Geometry says the 26 will have a 30mm drop.”

Only with a 150mm 27.5 fork. With your 140mm 26 Pike it’ll be at 39mm BB drop and the angles will be a degree steeper.

I’d get the Soul. It’ll work better than any other 27.5 frame I can think of.

Going to go with the Soul as I'm interested to see how this longshot geo changes things and do it properly and get 27.5 wheels/fork.

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That's the newish shaped Bfe with 26 wheels and forks. Now running with 140mm pikes and the correct sized wheels.

Hmm actually that might be in weird experiment mode with a 27.5 rear and 26 front with a massive maxxis shorty.