[Closed] skinny steel frames (CEN content)

I love my Charge Duster skinny, in 26" flavour but rides like an old Kona, hence why i got it in the first place.i have seen a few come up in the classifieds.

Well, despite being told I'm imagining it on here, I fully recommend the Production Privee frames and the ride quality they produce.

They have everything you could need (except inexplicably absent stealth dropper routing) and are beautiful to boot.

The Shan at the the more gnarcore end of the scale and the Oka is a perfect trail bike. I have both.

The Shan GT 29/650b+ is also lush.

I've never ridden steel hardtails as 'comfortable' as them.

Oka
[img] [/img]

V happy with Genesis Vagabond. Skinny steel and the right twang-stiff balance IMO. Have had Cinder Cone, M-Trax and Kilauea butted cromo frames in the past, Vagabond feels like v familiar territory albeit with drop-bars.

And that Oka ^. Woof. Like. Got my eye on that now.

Cotic have a demo man & van touring the country, so you can get a demo on a Soul on familiar trails.

FWIW I have a Solaris and I don't think it's particularly twangy, but it does have a lovely ride feel and does that "smoothing out the bumps" thing.

I wasn't particularly hung up on frame material, but I have bonded with it very quickly and its looks haven't hurt...
[img] ?oh=4713f63f6a270a0a202854117890bc37&oe=598AF6BE[/img]

Would 29in wheels be better if you have back issues?

CEN laws came in that forbade them to make them as twangy any more and it damped down the fun.

imo long forks made zingy frames dissapear more(? or as well as) than CEN testing, and to some extent larger dropper post compatible seat tubes. Market forces. You can still make a frame with a flexy (zingy, flexy, similar thing really) frame that passes ISO, especially if you don't also want longer fork compatibility. imo a long fork and a whippy or flexy frame is a bad combo but a stiffer frame with a 120-140mm fork can still have a good ride feel if you use thinner-wall tubes and the right OD in the right areas.

(ISO replaced CEN but largely same tests)

as skinny/twangy as possible (for my bad back if nothing else)

Would 29in wheels be better if you have back issues?

imo zingy is mostly main frame twist and spring from slimmer less stiff tubes

The Shan at the the more gnarcore end of the scale

so..... how do you think an old dekerf or explosif (im talking disc brake versions) would compare against a modern hardtail say?
as for longer forks, i dont think id need them, the old 80mm SIDS would still give me enough bounce, i dont go silly 😀

i thought that was all about 'rollabilty' rather than comfort, wouldnt fatter tyres be comfier over diameter?

I wouldn't like to say for sure, but I like how the bigger wheels get hung up less - which I think gives a less jarring ride.

Maybe get on a Cotic demo day and try the Soul & Solaris.

😉

If u fancy a 'modern' take on a comfortable HT steel frame.....

Check out Stif Morf. Very forgiving rear end.

I'm really enjoying the comfort of my Karate Monkey (old school Ops version).

Edit to say:
Not sure what size you are but afaik you can still find them in XL.

That Privee Shan is absolutely beautiful!

Theres nothing as good looking as a sorted steel hardtail. My 26" P7 still gets plenty of use, and my next purchase, when I can justify it will be a 650b version

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4161/34099835940_3d5e506526_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4161/34099835940_3d5e506526_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/TXhzcS ]P7 on't moors[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/14162682@N00/ ]bin lid[/url], on Flickr

Theres nothing as good looking as a sorted steel hardtail

just remembered another bike i had, soulcraft plowboy i think, the ss jobbie. lovely looking bike.

do the makers still use 853 or truetemper say, or has that CEN thing ensured they have to use chromoly or somethings?

True dat Binners - just ordered myself one!. There is quite a few deals on them at the moment... including a frame only on eBay in mountain mint for 374. I also know the dealer whereabouts of a black one, frame only for 400.

The Shan Oka is being discounted now too. That was a close second for me.

Had time on the morf but they sold out of medium in both colours.

I am absolutely and completely in love with my old 'jalopy' 29er Genesis High latitude, cheap looks rougher than a bunch of chicks from Gloucester but rides like an absolute dream. When my new summer bike arrives I think I'm going to spend some money on a repaint. Unless a cheap second hand solaris frame turns up by chance.

do the makers still use 853 or truetemper say, or has that CEN thing ensured they have to use chromoly or somethings?

Charge Skinny Duster? As whippy as you're likely to like.

Charge Skinny Duster? As whippy as you're likely to like.

Was going to recommend exactly that*, then realised two people already had!

If you are happy with 26 then that's what I'd look for, my wife stole my old one as her hardtail and I'm constantly thinking about stealing it back, for XC and general woodsy singletrack razzing it is perfect, slightly older geo too so might suit you if you want that feel.

(shhh, but I prefer it to my Soul)

*If you do go looking for one make sure it's a [i]Skinny[/i] Duster and not the older beefier Duster

Frames need to be stiffer for longer forks, bigger wheels, and longer reach as well. It's not just about passing tests, but also also about modern frames built around modern components and making the most of said changes/advances. You'd design/build in very different stiffness for an old XC geom 26" wheeled bike that takes rigid or 80mm travel forks then you would for a hard hitting 29er to be used with 120mm forks.

[i][edit : I missed James' comment, and now realise that I've just pretty much repeated his points.][/i]

(shhh, but I prefer it to my Soul)

Frames need to be stiffer for longer forks, bigger wheels, and longer reach as well. It's not just about passing tests, but also also about modern frames built around modern components and making the most of said changes/advances. You'd design/build in very different stiffness for an old XC geom 26" wheeled bike that takes rigid or 80mm travel forks then you would for a hard hitting 29er to be used with 120mm forks.

thanks a lot.

Op, I've got a Mk1 Soul frame up in the loft, with one side of the bb shell threads stripped, but if you fancy getting it repaired, any proceeds would go to Barnsley Hospice.

Op, I've got a Mk1 Soul frame up in the loft, with one side of the bb shell threads stripped, but if you fancy getting it repaired, any proceeds would go to Barnsley Hospice.

thanks

Sorry, I've no idea how much it'd be to repair, but anyway, it's a large.
It'll stay up there collecting dust. 😳
Edit:
BTW, I realise, it would end up being a small donation, after I'd paid postage.

Original Niner SIR.9 or MCR if you can find one.
I've run mine in lots of guises but with an 80-100mm fork, & regular 29 x 2.3 wheels, its still the best bike I've ever ridden. That it can run a b+/29+ combo is a bonus.

(shhh, but I prefer it to my Soul)

ok, like for like then, how does a mk1 soul ride compared to the latest model?

Well I can't compare to the latest model, but I do have

A Skinny Duster
A Mk1 Simple - basically the same as Mk1 Soul but with SS dropouts
A Mk 1.5/2 Simple - post CEN (I think) but still has 1 1/8th headtube and 27.2 seattube
A Prototype Soul - Using Mk2 back end and 31.6 seat tube, but with 1 /18th head tube and the front triangle is a lighter weight/thinner walled tubeset, so its about 1/2lb lighter (well it would be if it didn't also have an EBB putting the weight back on) and definitely bendier!

I love them all but they are different, the Mk1 Simple is pretty much directly comparable to the Mk1 Soul and is ace, a brilliant blend of stiff enough but also flexy enough, it rides well rigid and with up to 120mm forks, but I've never tried anything longer on it.

The Mk1.5/2 Simple is definitely stiffer, I don't know what other differences are under the skin but it has a slightly flattened top tube, it doesn't feel any less comfy but the front end definitely handles rocky stuff better, just seems to hold a line a wee bit better, and I know it's not a difference in the fork as I've ridden it with the same forks as the other one.

The prototype soul is weird, i like it, but it's probably a bit too flexy for some people, and it does not like being stuffed into rock gardens at full pelt, there's tangible twist at times and it can get a little vague. It is however very very comfy and once you stop trying to treat it like a long travel hardtail and treat it more like a general XC bike it makes a lot more sense, which is why I dropped it back to 120mm forks from 140, it's not that the bike didn't ride well with 140, it's that with big forks you found the limits of the frame more often.

The Skinny Duster feels like a blend of the bendy soul and the Mk1 simple, in that it's flexier than a lot of bikes but it feels like a shorter travel XC bike from the off so you don't really get lulled into treating it like the Soul so it seems to behave better, if you did really rag it it would suffer the same issues as the proto Soul I'm sure, but it's just more old skool all round, shorter in the top tube, so I ran it with a longer stem, and 100mm forks as a max, (it was good at 80mm too).

If you're looking to try something as a cheap build/experiment then go ahead and look at the older 26ers, I'm sure you'll have loads of fun and there's plenty of frames out there to build some very good bikes for not a lot of money, but if I was a buying new I'd seriously consider 650b or a 29er, and I say that as someone who just stuck 26in wheels in his brand new 650b full suss frame!

Nothing to add sorry but I do like the look of those Production Privee frames !!

That was going to be a picture of my Charge Duster but I can no longer be bothered with trying to get a link that works, out of Flickr on my phone. 😆

oh and more important actually, is it medium?

...as it happens I'm trying to sell my dads early 26" medium Soul (complete bike, decent spec) as he's given up riding if you're interested?

Drop me a mail to joneATfisherproductionsDOTcoDOtuk for pics.

So what you want is zingy, springy, old school 26" hardtail, sorted for 100mm forks?

[url= http://sanderson-cycles.com/content/life ]Sanderson Life 853[/url]

I'd sell you my old soulcraft option 3 frame (Only 15.5" though) made for me by Sean @soulcraft back in 2004, designed for 80-100mm fork,

Not quite as twisty when you sit in the saddle and wiggle the bars as a Niner Sir 9 but go custom and you can get whatever you want!

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8685/28011974224_28e50f9def_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8685/28011974224_28e50f9def_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/JFjG1Q ]Swarf[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/8133348@N03/ ]oxym0r0n[/url], on Flickr[/img]

I don't know if they were built before CEN tests

And, NO disc brakes, but...

Try looking for a kona smoke on eBay, etc

Designed round a very rigid fork and in 29 flavour too.

If you can find a cheap one, it's not going to depreciate massively while you decide whether or not to flog it.

If you can get away with 26" wheels and a straight steerer Pipedream are selling off their [url= http://www.pipedreamcycles.com/shop/scion-r853/ ]853 Scion frames[/url] for just £199 (only 18" left).

I can't compare their springiness to other frames here, but I love mine (they are post CEN frame though).

I have a Mk II Soul and love it.

I snapped a chainstay but got that rewelded - and all is good again.

Have also tried a Pipedream Scion. The geometry is identical to the Soul but the chain stays are a bit beefier and it felt dead compared to the Soul. Currently hanging in the shed.

Sanderson Life - lovely frame and ride but I bent the rear dropout open three times on passing sticks. Binned it and bought the Soul.

How about an On One Inbred? Great fun to ride 🙂

I can't compare the Scion to the Soul (although I have heard that the Soul is springier) but the Pipedream Sirus I had before was too stiff for me (the Scion has narrower seatstays and is more comfortable).

I've got my eye on a Singular Swift for my next bike but I've never ridden one and don't know quite how they compare to other options in terms of comfort & liveliness , but they always seem to get a mention when steel hardtails are discussed.

I'd sell you my old soulcraft option 3 frame (Only 15.5" though) made for me by Sean @soulcraft back in 2004, designed for 80-100mm fork,

Not quite as twisty when you sit in the saddle and wiggle the bars as a Niner Sir 9 but go custom and you can get whatever you want!

If you can get away with 26" wheels and a straight steerer Pipedream are selling off their 853 Scion frames for just £199 (only 18" left).
(they are post CEN frame though)

The geometry is identical to the Soul but the chain stays are a bit beefier and it felt dead compared to the Soul.

...as it happens I'm trying to sell my dads early 26" medium Soul (complete bike, decent spec) as he's given up riding if you're interested?

EDIT as typing at same time:

I've got my eye on a Singular Swift for my next bike but I've never ridden one and don't know quite how they compare to other options in terms of comfort & liveliness , but they always seem to get a mention when steel hardtails are discussed.