[Closed] Skills compensator.... What to think of and buy.... 160-170mm, trail bike

I thought the T130 was all the bike anyone would ever need?

Skills course with a good coaching company (Proride at FOD gets good recommendations) would be the first port of call. Will make more of a difference over a bit more travel, you dont want to be getting into bother in the first place!

Longer travel will decrease your feel for what's going on under you. The way around it is going faster and making it work harder, long bikes like a G-160 especially so. It can end up being a bit of a catch-22 as a result (doesn't feel nice going slowly, so doesn't give the confidence to go faster where it would feel better).

However, a fairly basic G-160 can be had for nearer the £1k mark. So would be a reasonably low risk purchase if you bought an S model with a view to upgrading whatever needs doing (if you end up liking it)

Skills course with a good coaching company (Proride at FOD gets good recommendations) would be the first port of call. Will make more of a difference over a bit more travel, you dont want to be getting into bother in the first place!

I've done multiple days with Jedi and whilst i'm a lot better offroad than i previously was, i'm a long way from being Sam Hill. I'm not against more training as an idea... but not sure i'm going to get much from it as my balls stop me doing the harder stuff !

I thought the T130 was all the bike anyone would ever need?

Easy to agree... but when you come to something scary i do wonder if something bigger may make it less so.

There are a few cheap Bird 145/160 about, you can get the frame warranty transferred and they are pretty capable bikes.

If you've upgraded the whyte, i'd recommend getting a new frame and fork, and keeping everything else.

My shortlist

Bird 145LT (170 front, 160 rear)
Orange Alpine6 (170 front 160 or 165 rear)

If you go second hand, there was a year or two of oranges that broke a lot, I've got an idea that it was the 2017...

If you’ve upgraded the whyte, i’d recommend getting a new frame and fork, and keeping everything else

I've got all of the bits from the T130, so if i went bigger any of the bling bits would be coming off and going on my boys bike if they're not compatible with any new purchase and the T130 would be sold in standar trim. But no major hurry on that side of the debate really as i'm already wondering if i'd be better buying him something bigger instead of myself and just accepting he'll be doing harder techier stuff than me... But that's a whole different debates.

I wouldn't have an Orange if it were free... not sure why, it's just not happening.

Are early V4 alloy/C spec Nomads down to sub 2k S/H yet?

https://whyte.bike/collections/offers/products/s150crs on sale

Yeah i do like the concept of the S150 along with the S being that i can fit the 27.5s in it... but then i'm kinda wasting the fact it has 29er wheels... but i don't want to waste my Pro4's by not using them and i am still fairly convinced that 29ers don't turn as well/nicely as 27.5s.. So that then only really leaves me with the fact i've swaped from a 130-150, which, well, is it enough of a change to really be of much use ?

What about an Orbea Rallon ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orbea-Rallon-x30-2017-18-Full-suspension-mountain-bike-Excellent-Mint-L/202852263176?hash=item2f3aefe508:g:FgIAAOSwGQRdd3ti

If you want longer travel but something that isn’t a barge the trek slash is ideal. Lots of deals around in the 2019 alloy version at the minute (which has a steeper seat tube than the carbon). Stick it in the high setting and you can use a 27.5 rear wheel. The mullet set up works for me especially on more Dh focused stuff and I can change to 29er when suits. 2 bikes in one really.

Not sure that additional travel is a skills compromiser.  It brings additional challenges, things like longer bikes being slightly less direct and slower to turn.  Generally bigger bikes weigh more so require more speed/better techniques.  Sure you can plough through things easier, but that can be full of risks as eventually you try and steam through something which was bigger than expected.  That said I also don’t buy into the ‘130mm trail bike is all you need’ comments, it’s so subjective as to what and where you ride.  For me my 160mm bike is all I need for Proper gnarly South Wales off piste stuff.  Also plenty big enough for any trail I’m willing to ride at BPW (all reds and few of the blacks) but also is manageable around trail centres and FOD off piste trails.  It will also be coming with me to the Alps this year and be raced across the U.K.  In fact I doubt there is anywhere a 130 trail bike is noticeably faster than my Mojo HD4 if things like tyres are set up the same.

Try a Jeffsy. 29ers arent slow in the corners when you try a good one. My mates blew me away, it's a right laugh, and s whole barrel of fun.
I demo'd one last year with loads of posh bits and and was even more funnererer.
My Capra was a beast, but definitely more of a plough through stuff sort of thing. Current Patrol with a 170 fork is the perfect bike for me though. Pedals well, jumps nicely, carves turns but smashes through stuff when I need a bit of extra help.
So yeah, Patrol/Sentinel alloy is another good option, depending on wheel size choice. The Sentinel is a rocket downhill.

The above is where my problems kind of begin....

The place where a T130 is faster than the 160 etc is '95% of my riding' in all honesty.... mostly it's local/Swinley/etc and i'd wager the lighter faster nimbler 130mm is quicker on them than the heavier burlier 160.
Would i ride anything 'harder' in Morzine just because i have a bigger bike there... Mmmmm i'd like to maybe think the answer is yes... but the reality... I dunno 🙂

Which leaves us the obvious answer of "get a Nukeproof Pulse and leave for the big days" but that's a chunk of change for half a dozen days per year.

Nothing much is going to happen before we do BPW in a couple of weeks as i'm going to stick some bigger brakes on the T-130 and see just how much i 'need' more when my lad starts attacking things LOL.

Try a Jeffsy

I like them... one of the locals got one and it's very nice.

I have a 130 YT and a 170 YT. The difference that actually matters is not more travel, it's a slacker Head Angle.

I've done skills courses with Jedi, a couple with Tom Dowie and several with Katie Curd. They all helped, especially Katie. But just bunging on more travel could be a recipe for bigger crashes.

A slacker HA will give you more confidence, but it will also up the DH speed. Speed without skills and experience are a quick way to A&E.

Riding off Piste in the Forest of Dean there are a few runs Id not choose to do on the 130mm bike basically due to the HA, not travel. Well set up suspension and good technique can mean you dont need lots of travel. Sure, the 170mm will bail me out when I get it horribly wrong, but that's my fault, not the bike.

I'd go with the Bird, because of course I've got one myself. It's a fantastic bike.

Does need some commitment though, it's not hard to ride per-se, actually pretty forgiving, but if you're not committed it won't either.

It's fine to pootle around on, and if you're pinned it's amazing, but it's that whole bit in the middle, if you find yourself riding half-arsed it won't want to turn, it'll just want to drift wide, and ride a bit harsh on the rough stuff.

You don't need to be Sam Hill to ride it, far from, I'm not a great rider, but you have to be trying.

Maybe test ride some bikes and see what you like - where are you in the country?

It’s not necessarily all about travel (easy for me to say with 170/160mm travel) but angles / reach etc as well.

There’s another thread going about the Norco Optic and if I were getting a new bike I’d be considering something like that or in that ballpark. Something 29er potentially and 140f / 130r travel with around a 65 degree headangle, a good sized reach (for me at 5’9 and with quite short arms I’d be inclined to say 465-470mm reach) and with the shortest chainstays I could get away with whilst allowing for reasonable mud clearance.

My current bike is great - it’s an Aeris 145LT with 170mm lyriks / codes etc and on uplift days it’s amazing. Capable of far more than I can do and when you’re on it it’s fantastic. I’ve done all day rides on it like the big loop at Brechfa / Brecon Gap plus pedalled it up Snowdon etc as well as uplift days. I’ve been riding it coming up 3 years in a couple of months time. No plans to change it at the moment.

I do hanker for something inbetween the Aeris and my hardtail though - but don’t have the justification to add a middle bike! I wonder if one of the 130/140 29ers might be that bike - would it do the big stuff nearly as well as what I’ve got but be more lively in more vanilla / mundane trails?

There’s a Bird Aeris 145 in medium for £1000 on the Bird Owners Facebook page at the moment with Pikes on it which seems a bargain. Not a bling build (10 speed etc) but most of your bits would probably be compatible.

Threaded BB / external cables / metric shock / boost etc. Nothing out of date and good backup from the manufacturer.

Whilst a new bike is always nice, and longer travel might soak up enough to make you a little bit quicker on rougher stuff in some situations, the only way you will really progress is to ride more of the stuff that pushes you more of the time. Take time to practise the skills you have been taught and you will become faster as your 'comfort zone' changes.

(speaking as someone who did a session with Tony and didn't really practise what I'd learnt at the time. Now, several years later, I've been making a concerted effort to practise and have seen my skill / confidence level increase considerably).

But, a new bike is always nice, so do both - buy new bike & practise more! Win win!

thanks for the replies... i'm not ignoring posts if i don't directly reply.... just not necessairly anything to add to them.

Get an S-150...

Without wishing to sound all Chris Porter, there’s FAR too much emphasis been placed on a bikes ability to turn in MTB design over the years, mostly at the expense of stability and confidence in said turns. OK so maybe a Geometron G1 makes his point a little too bluntly for your average trail rider that also rides some twisty Singletrack from time to time, but you can get any MTB round a corner if you want to! In fact MX/Enduro motorbikes will also go round surprisingly tight corners too with their 1500mm+ wheelbases, limited steering lock and short offset crowns, if they need to. My mates were decrying 29ers as the work of the Devil 3/4 years ago, and thought I was stupid to ride one, but they couldn’t work out why despite longer travel 26/27.5 wheeled bikes they were struggling to keep up with me at times. They all ride modern 29ers now funnily enough!

You won’t be bothered by the preconception that 29ers don’t turn as well once you’ve ridden it. For the type of riding you’re describing, it’s ideal. Geometry is more important than ultimate travel figures, in fact as has been mentioned already, too much travel can rob you of feel. S-150 is just such a confidence inspiring bike in all situations,

I did a bit of back to back testing with the one I ran for a bit on 29x2.35 vs 27.5x2.8 and in most situations the cons to the 27.5x2.8 size vastly outweighed the pro’s. Any smaller tyre than 2.8” on a 27.5” rim on the S-150 and the BB would be so low as to mean pedal strikes inevitable rather than just something to be cautious of.

G-160/170 is also a great bike for sure, but I’d rather have an S-150 for UK trail riding every day.

Just admit it, you want a new bike. Nothing wrong with that. You did just say that the T130 is right for 95% of your riding so that would be the end of the debate for me.

I'm also not sure what another 10 or 20 mm of travel would do for your mental game. Because your current bike probably isn't holding you back as much as you think it is.

the only way you will really progress is to ride more of the stuff that pushes you more of the time. Take time to practise the skills you have been taught and you will become faster as your ‘comfort zone’ changes.

Can't agree more with this, coming from motorbikes and trackdays etc, the only way to go faster is to do it more and do it harder yes.

In a MTB context it's something we're actively trying this year and next and without doubt i'm faster and better than i used to be as a rider, so can't argue there either.

Ah forgot you were a motorbike rider weeksy...

So I’m gonna double down on my previous post! Have a look at geometry and design of a typical motorbike vs a typical MTB. MTB’s have much shorter wheelbases and much steeper head angles like for like typically. Also MTB’s tend to run much more fork offset, and hence have lower trail figures... Why?

All of those things contribute to why most MTB’s are less stable than motorbikes. Ok so maybe you’re not planning on doing 200mph on your MTB, but a more modern bike than your T-130 (not knocking them, they’re ace fun bikes it’s just they were designed to be fun and playful at a typical trail centre, and they’re a bit short and upright if you’re pushing on) will open your eyes as to what is possible!!!

Go too far though and it’ll be hard to adjust. It’s like the bar width thing... I’ve progressively gone from 580mm in 1994 to 680mm in 2004, and here we are in 2019 and 780mm is my new normal. Had I gone from 580 to 780 in one go, it would have taken some getting used to perhaps!

get a burley hardtail and ride it to develop skills. At the same time ride your fs. Hardtails require a more skilful type of riding and would enable you to get the most out of your current fs. Or get a used bmx for next to nothing and go to the bmx track with it. This would be a cheap way to enhance your skills too.

get a burley hardtail and ride it to develop skills. At the same time ride your fs. Hardtails require a more skilful type of riding and would enable you to get the most out of your current fs. Or get a used bmx for next to nothing and go to the bmx track with it. This would be a cheap way to enhance your skills too

Errrrrrm no....then no.... and lastly.... no 🙂

160mm travel full suss ebike is surely the logical answer !

160mm travel full suss ebike is surely the logical answer !

Nah, i enjoy the challenge of pedalling... He's slower than me both up and down... well, as long as i don't have to stop and walk a feature he attacks 🙂

Just go and buy yourself a 2nd hand g160 in your size... Swap your fancy parts over to it and enjoy it😉... Have a go on an ebike with the motor off for a few days and then any bike you ride after will feel extremely light and nimble 😁

I'd even go as far as to say that once used to a g160, you'll never opt for the t130 again

Could you build up a cheap longer travel bike for stuff like this? That's what I've done - I have my Hightower as my go to, I absolutely love it for the places I ride. But I've also built up an older Nukeproof Mega for alps trips and bigger riding places (like Black Mountain) - its on a Cane Creek coil, and some 170mm 36's I had from my previous Transition Patrol. I'd say it total it cost me around £1k to put together.

I've got a T-130 and a G-160. It was a really hard decision which one was going out to Chatel this year, the 160 won out as it's got better brakes. The 130 is an incredible bike. I prefer to jump that as it feels a lot more playful but the 160 does give a bit more bail out.

Find the 130 a lot more fun and playful and the 160 a complete beast, really got to let it go to get the most out of it. I'm a fairly average rider but I can get down most of the stuff I ride as quick on either bike until it gets really technical when the 160 will be slightly quicker.

Have you gone 140mm fork on the 130?

There's no way I'd be getting rid of the 130, it's fun everywhere rather than just where it gets really rough! The geometry is so similar though it's really easy to jump between them and be straight up to speed.

Could you build up a cheap longer travel bike for stuff like this?

Due to having just bought the Wife a Liv Embolden E+ last week, plus multiple motorbikes in there, there's no space for another bike... Especially again, if my lad carries on and wants a DH bike LOL.

It's not a cost thing as such, but a space thing.

Have you gone 140mm fork on the 130?

Yes the Fox 34s are 140mm (i think... i should check... but i think so)

edit... i lie...
Fox Suspension 34 Float Performance Elite 27.5 130MM 27.5 BLACK/BLUE DECALS ¬

I don't think more at the back would really help you if its really about committing to more sketchy stuff.

I have a 130 YT and a 170 YT. The difference that actually matters is not more travel, it’s a slacker Head Angle

This

Have you thought about putting a bigger fork on? More travel and a tad slacker might help. Plus a chunky front tyre and short stem.

Have you thought about putting a bigger fork on?

Not really, i only recently went to this set of forks.

Bird are near you and have a demo fleet at Swinley I think. The 150mm AM9 should be enough for most riding most of the time unless you are really set on 160/170mm.

As others have said, it’s not the bike holding you back, it’s you. If you want to improve your skills, you have to spend time working on them, which is a different mindset to ‘going for a ride’.

Yesterday, for example we headed out, ended up finding a steep & rutted trail which we ended up riding over and over for the best part of 2 hours, trying stupid things, hitting corners way too fast, endless crashes & some runs which actually turned out well. Unless you repeatedly push how hard you can ride something, you don’t know where the limit is - I was probably 50% faster on the corners by the end of the day, but if I tried to ride them straight off the bat at the end speed, I wouldn’t have made it round the first one 🙂

Go and find some steep ruts and ride them too fast over and over again.

IMO you won’t improve riding at Swinley (other than your ability to pedal) or the likes of somewhere like BPW, as you arnt focussing on improving how you ride certain corners, or drops etc, you can’t, unless you go all that way and keep riding the same 200m of trail.

MO you won’t improve riding at Swinley (other than your ability to pedal) or the likes of somewhere like BPW, as you arnt focussing on improving how you ride certain corners,

I am 🙂

Ok, you may be somewhat, depending on your starting point, purely on the basis of time on the bike.

But you can, and would do better trying a more focussed approach to messing around on your bike.

There is as little point to buying a big 170mm enduro bike as there is to buying a DH bike & riding it once in a blue moon. You need lots of time on them to make them work properly.

But you can, and would do better trying a more focussed approach to messing around on your bike.

That's then all sounding a bit like training and homework rather than fun and riding... I struggle with that as a concept... Sure, i get the idea of it... but doing say 200m then going back up, doing it again, and repeat, i'm not feeling the love as a riding day.

is @weeksy the new @hora

Have you thought about putting a bigger fork on?

Common mod on a T-130 is a 10mm increase in fork travel. Changes the attitude of the bike slightly and gives a bit more bias towards descending without ruining the geometry. I’ve done this on many bikes for customers.

In fact I’d be tempted, before splashing loads of cash if you only have space for one bike, would be to increase fork travel by 10mm, and also fit a -1deg slackset too. Should get you around or just under 66deg head angle whilst retaining BB height and Seat angle, and improve the attitude of the bike somewhat. This is pretty much what they did for the 2019 T-130 range anyway, they all have slacker HA and 140mm fork fitted now anyway.

is @weeksy the new @hora

I've bought 2 bikes in 3 years ? Both were T-130s.... where are you going with this ?

That’s then all sounding a bit like training and homework rather than fun and riding… I struggle with that as a concept… Sure, i get the idea of it… but doing say 200m then going back up, doing it again, and repeat, i’m not feeling the love as a riding day.

I’m sure given your Zwifting obsession, you can appreciate the irony in that statement 😉

Why is skill improving frowned upon, yet spending days on a static bike trying improve your fitness not?

Sure, it’s a different approach to riding but it doesn’t just have to be that. Go and ride somewhere with tech trails, ride a loop and stop off somewhere or on a trail section that’s challenging, or you’re struggling with & spend an hour on it, breaking it down & then building the speed back into it.

You will get more from it than than buying a big travel bike that feels alien to ride most of the time.

In fact I’d be tempted, before splashing loads of cash if you only have space for one bike, would be to increase fork travel by 10mm, and also fit a -1deg slackset too. Should get you around or just under 66deg head angle whilst retaining BB height and Seat angle, and improve the attitude of the bike somewhat. This is pretty much what they did for the 2019 T-130 range anyway, they all have slacker HA and 140mm fork fitted now anyway.

Not sure how viable it is on the forks i have ?

Why is skill improving frowned upon

Not saying it is, not saying that at all. But me spending a day at BPW riding as many trails as possible and pushing myself is very different than going there and doing 1 section of 1 trail for hours. Along with the fact that i'm going to these places with my lad and that's not on his agenda either.

We're starting at the Swinley skills area in Jan every other Saturday, which will actually give us that completely focused type of riding you describe... But hoping it's fun for both of us at the same time too

’m sure given your Zwifting obsession, you can appreciate the irony in that statement

Zwift racing is a completely different thing to MTBing for me, it's a totally different mindset and activity, the only thing that they have in common is a set of pedals. But that said, each and every Zwift race is different, tactically, mentally, physically, all different but based upon a theme of course.

@weeksy it s a light hearted quip as it seems you are constantly on the look ut for the next thing 🙂 #emporersnewclothes and all that

it s a light hearted quip as it seems you are constantly on the look ut for the next thing 🙂 #emporersnewclothes and all that

You rekon ? I'm not getting that at all... well, in my perception anyway.

I wasn't taking offence though, i just don't see it in myself at all.

You seem certain you don't want to change forks yet seem to be happy to swap out or buy an entirely new bike just for 5% of your riding?

That’s then all sounding a bit like training and homework rather than fun and riding… I struggle with that as a concept… Sure, i get the idea of it… but doing say 200m then going back up, doing it again, and repeat, i’m not feeling the love as a riding day.

Its all bike riding, we've got some trails locally which are around a minute long, all loamy. Spent yesterday sessioning the same tracks over and over, slapping turns, a bit of falling off, great fun and you build up skill/confidence. Back there next weekend and over Christmas.

Bike riding isn't all about distance or height gained.

You seem certain you don’t want to change forks yet seem to be happy to swap out or buy an entirely new bike just for 5% of your riding?

My fork issues are that 1, i'm not convinced 10mm will make enough of a difference and 2, i only bought them 3-4 months ago so would be upset to swap them this early on...
3, it would cost me loads as i'd end up putting them on my lads bike and then need a new boost wheel for him too 😀

Dont need a new wheel, spacer kit off ebay, or proper adapters if they do them.

I had A similar thing earlier this year. My prefered riding is steep off piste techy stuff so I was tempted to go for a bigger bike. The more I thought about it though I came to the conclusion that I didn't want to be the older guy in his mid forties trying to pretend to be "sending it" but actually the being far from that in reality.

In the end I went for a slack / long 130mm trail bike with 150mm forks as a compromise, and accepting that in reality the bike is never going to be the thing to hold me back, but would suit most of my riding better.

Ymmv may vary of course and you may indeed get the most out of a bigger bike but that was the conclusion I came to fir me. Worked out for me as I've done every trail / feature / drop on my new bike that I did on my old dh bike without any problems and I'm loving it.

So reading behind the initial post and the follow up replies, basically what you asking is what enduro bike with screw fit bb do people recommend under £2k??? Because it sounds like you have made your mind up already

The more I thought about it though I came to the conclusion that I didn’t want to be the older guy in his mid forties trying to pretend to be “sending it” but actually the being far from that in reality.

Dammit - shot most of us down there... 😉

weeksy - come over to Rogate sometime on the new mega-sled when you get whatever this ends up being and we'll catch up. Or I will try and make one of your BPW days at some point.

So reading behind the initial post and the follow up replies, basically what you asking is what enduro bike with screw fit bb do people recommend under £2k??? Because it sounds like you have made your mind up already

Well, if i had made up my mind already then yes, that would be the question.

However, i've not... 🙂 I'm still sitting here contemplating.

As said earlier, until we go to BPW in 2 weeks time and then also Swinley Skills area the weekends after that, i won't know the answer to my own question. When i see if my lads reality is different to his perception and my riding is fine and we stay together, then this doesn't even need to come up in disucssion. But just weighing things up. The answer may be that for this year i'm happy on the T-130 and maybe next year after he's had more training and experience then I buy something bigger, but by the same count, i may come to terms with the fact that he's outgrown me and i have to accept my place in the world.
It may be that i'm still brilliant and i can beat the little bugger anyway 😉

Granted, my T-130 is better than i'll ever be, granted if you stick an Atherton on it, it would do things i can't dream of... but i'm just me, I'm not them.

can't your son teach you some skills. Once you have those following a better rider down a trail can help too.

come over to Rogate sometime on the new mega-sled when you get whatever this ends up being and we’ll catch up

I have no idea where Rogate is mate, but if you can get to it, so can I.... If you're heading there over the Xmas weeks, then shout on here or Email and me and my lad will come 🙂 We've both got 2 weeks off to play.

It's a push up bike park near QECP. But it's on greensand not chalk-clay so is ok after rain.
Yeah - will do!

can’t your son teach you some skills. Once you have those following a better rider down a trail can help too.

LOL he can barely tie his own shoelaces.... but he's a decent rider "Just get on with it Daddy" isn't quite cutting it as teaching 😉

I know this is coming over like i'm some sort of incompetent who can't get down a trail, but that's not quite the reality, i'm not a bad rider as such, but as a 'jumper' he's a skilled little lad.

I’m not really sure what the Question is then Weeksy.  As you have had some great responses.

Hob Nob is right in what he says session if a trail that isn’t just riding a purpose bike trail centre is the beat way to learn, it’s training and is needed to improve skills in different formats at every sport. Riding somewhere you ride all the time is great but you are only going to improve riding that trail. Dropping BPW even a few times a year is unlikely to really sharpen your skills, just highlight your shortcomings.

It has been suggested that you upgrade your fork travel to modernise your bike to somewhere near current trail bikes by a former whyte dealer (10mm extra fork travel and an Angleset to slacken) but it seems you don’t want to do that.

so like I say it seems like you want to be convinced which bike to buy, which in itself is absolutely fine...I enjoy those threads as much as anyone.

I’m not really sure what the Question is then Weeksy. As you have had some great responses.

I've not said i've not had great responsese, i've not said there's not plenty of food for thought in here... I'm perfectly happy with the responses, what makes you think i'm not ?

You won't need more than the 130 at Swinley Skills area. There's nothing which has not been built for a smooth landing and 20mm extra travel won't make a difference.

I'm looking at new bikes at the moment, on a 150R/160F Bronson V2 and looking for a do-it-all for anything from trail to a week in the Alps. The most 'trail' friendly big bike I've ridden so far is the new Rallon which is currently out of your price range (at least for a new MY20 with the updated rear linkage). That's a 160R 170F 29er which is pretty light with decent geo. I have also ridden a transition smuggler - 120R / 140F (or thereabouts), this felt really nice and capable (as other have said I feel the geo really helped here), though I feel I'd want a bit more. The Rallon was quicker though (although it felt slower at times it wasn't). May also try a Sentinal, but concerned it may be a bit porky for everyday riding.

Rogate is a good call.. some good scope for progression in manageable sized chunks - just sessioning Bottlerocket alone will help with improving key skills.

i’m not a bad rider as such, but as a ‘jumper’ he’s a skilled little lad.

Longer travel bikes are harder to jump IMO, unless the jumps and massive.
Are you consistently using all the travel on your current bike? Are you bottoming it out on harsh drops, or hitting rocky sections fast?
A longer travel bike won't help you land a drop or jump smoothly, and it's not going to help if you mess up a drop by landing heavy.

What it *might* do is give you the feeling of confidence, which in turn will make you more confident and commit more, thus actually managing to ride better. 95% of that will be in your head though. Which is why new bike syndrome exists.

Can’t you just change the air shaft in the fork when it’s being serviced to take it to 140mm?

And if the Whyte has a sensible head tube design, swap the headset for a Works one, I’d go for -1.5 deg.

Total cost about £100 if you do all the work yourself, and not that much more for your LBS to do if you needed a fork service anyway.

That’ll give you a head angle of just over 65 deg and about 20mm more front centre, whilst everything else will stay the same. My old Spitfire which had similar geometry and only 10mm more travel at the back was awesome at BPW etc.

Can’t you just change the air shaft in the fork when it’s being serviced to take it to 140mm?

At this stage I have no idea. They're only 3-4 months old.

Works headset I'll look into tonight.

I ran my T130 with Fox 34’s at 140mm then changed them to 150mm, it’s a 20 minute and £35 air spring job.

Thanks Jimmy.

I'll go in search

https://www.tftuned.com/air-shaft-assembly-34mm-float-lc-na-2-1214/p3465

i’m already wondering if i’d be better buying him something bigger instead of myself

Wouldn't want to do that... scares me silly following Ollie when I'm on a bigger travel bike.

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My current bike is great – it’s an Aeris 145LT with 170mm lyriks / codes etc and on uplift days it’s amazing. Capable of far more than I can do and when you’re on it it’s fantastic. I’ve done all day rides on it like the big loop at Brechfa / Brecon Gap plus pedalled it up Snowdon etc as well as uplift days. I’ve been riding it coming up 3 years in a couple of months time. No plans to change it at the moment.

I do hanker for something inbetween the Aeris and my hardtail though – but don’t have the justification to add a middle bike! I wonder if one of the 130/140 29ers might be that bike – would it do the big stuff nearly as well as what I’ve got but be more lively in more vanilla / mundane trails?

Obvious answer is get the shorter travel linkage for £100 and new airshaft for the lyrics ?? (Umm.... unless N+1 is REALLY strong)

Top video Steve, your lad has clearly come on massively! Nice one

Top video Steve, your lad has clearly come on massively! Nice one

It's age mate, we're doomed! They just pick everything up faster, bounce better ...
Yeah he's riding insane (to me) stuff.... and the Stuff in Dyfi/Antur and Rev's is a step up from that.

I quite honestly made a conscious choice Saturday to take a bigger travel bike than he's riding (my Bird is identical except he's on XS and I'm on a M so I took the mega with 170/160) which was nice since I cased that drop/jump on one of the runs.. and when I follow him now I just rely on the extra travel as a skills adjuster but he still drops me like a bad smell.. but it does help a lot if he can smash through knowing I got another 10mm both ends... (though its seen me OTB a few times its saved me lots more)

Ideally though I'd get one of the newer Bird's with the change-able linkage... but currently both bikes take same shocks and wheels so I've effectively got a 160/140, 160/150 (on the Bird) and 170/160 (On the Mega)

in my experience as a totally average rider, what you need is LENGTH and lots of it!

I moved from a large zesty, which isn't really a particularly small bike, to an XL mondraker dune, and it's amazing, simply because the "Middle of the bike" is such a wide zone now. Previously, i felt that i had to have my weight in just the right place, especially on drops, now, there is just more leeway for error, which is amazing, because error is how i ride!

Taking that massive bike to the Alps was actually eye opening, as i got round tight Les Arcs hairpins of certain death that i'd never got round on the much shorter zesty, simply because of stability and the confidence that gave me!

So whilst travel is useful, to try to swallow your mistakes, length is ime, actually far more important!

(and yes, it takes more effort to manual and bunny hop, but because of the stability and wider "centre" window, i can actually flat land manual this bike, which i could never quite manage previously! The only iussue is now when i get back on my HT, every time i manual or wheely i pretty much end up sat on my ass on the floor behind having forgoten i'm riding a much shorter bike........)

Would a Calibre Sentry fit the bill? Currently £1699 at Go Outdoors. Even the Pro model with coil shock I think is about £2100.

So a new N+1...

My current bike is great – it’s an Aeris 145LT with 170mm lyriks / codes etc and on uplift days it’s amazing. Capable of far more than I can do and when you’re on it it’s fantastic. I’ve done all day rides on it like the big loop at Brechfa / Brecon Gap plus pedalled it up Snowdon etc as well as uplift days. I’ve been riding it coming up 3 years in a couple of months time. No plans to change it at the moment.

I do hanker for something inbetween the Aeris and my hardtail though – but don’t have the justification to add a middle bike! I wonder if one of the 130/140 29ers might be that bike – would it do the big stuff nearly as well as what I’ve got but be more lively in more vanilla / mundane trails?

Obvious answer is get the shorter travel linkage for £100 and new airshaft for the lyrics ?? (Umm…. unless N+1 is REALLY strong)

I had the shorter linkage and 160mm fork and the bike rides better with the longer linkage on it (more poppy) and higher front end.

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Would a Calibre Sentry fit the bill? Currently £1699 at Go Outdoors. Even the Pro model with coil shock I think is about £2100.

So a new N+1…

This is probably a good shout

Having spannered on a Bossnut, that goes down as a terrible idea... If it's built with the same crap componentry, bearings, parts and setup... I'd rather walk.

I went from a T130 to a patrol and it was a huge change in ride feel and skills required, not helped with a huge crash first time out.

I do sometimes think about going back to 130, but the patrol is fun when finally set up, the loss of speed on trail centres and so on doesn’t bother me either, I’m not a racer, but as others say, slow speeds on this one takes adjusting too, not helped by me using a short travel hardtail most of the time!

If I was to look at getting something now, a giant reign would be one of the first I’d check, looks good and by all accounts just as good as any of the enduros out there.