[Closed] Single speed setup questions

No idea on microspline setups, but you MAY find it's cheaper to get an HG, and the myriad of rear sporcket options there, than it is to be tied into microspline sprocket...

TBH - i'd get a new setup - chain, front and rear rings... A new front ring is what - £35, and you'll then save the 12 speed stuff. You'll want a new chain and rear bits anywat, so it's worth getting it all new..

I run a blackspire n/w wonky chainring, but have used all manner of rings. as long as it's a 1x ring it'll be fine

DrP

If you want to try it for a ride or two then the simplest way would be to pick a gear and not change it. Next simplest as above but remove shifter from the bike (use limit screws to hold mech in right place). Either of those options will let you experiment enough to decide if you want to try it properly.

The surly tensioner is good but not cheap. If running longer term then yes a SS chainring, sprocket and SS width chain are better.

@nixie Nah!!! Go the whole hog from the word go... grow a beard, get swallow tattoos on your hands, also buy a fixie, and whack a bunch of stickers on your lovely shiny bike 😉 !!!

RE chain - i've jsut got a KMC EBIKE single speed chain.. the non ebike verson lasted, ooh, 2 months before stretching WAAAY past 1%.
Tensioner... a sprung one is best..the alfine one is meant to be good

DrP

@nixie Nah!!! Go the whole hog from the word go… grow a beard, get swallow tattoos on your hands, also buy a fixie, and whack a bunch of stickers on your lovely shiny bike 😉 !!!

That's stage 2 but I need to know I like it before I commit!

What's good value for an hg cog setup then?
I have tried just sticking to 1 gear but I imagine it feels quite different not having the option to shift..

Bikepunx.com make microspline cogs and they're reasonably priced. You'll also need some spacers. I'm not sure if HG freehub spacers fit on microspline freehubs? You might have to ask bikepunx about that. I don't really see the point in buying another freehub just to fit SS cogs.

KMC Z-series 3/32 chain is probably the best regarded. It comes in all sorts of versions with hollow links, hollow pins, chrome plated, nitride plated, etc etc. Whatever's cheapest and 3/32" is fine unless you're tarty.

Surly Singulator is nice, the generic version off ebay for about a tenner is fine.

Front chainrings, if you can get 3/32 chainrings then that's great, otherwise either just keep what you have if it's not worn, or get a steel 1x chainring if buying new.

If you want to try it for a ride or two then the simplest way would be to pick a gear and not change it. Next simplest as above but remove shifter from the bike (use limit screws to hold mech in right place). Either of those options will let you experiment enough to decide if you want to try it properly.

In theory, this is correct in reality it never works out quite as well as you would think.

1) Gears slip and jump under SS levels of gurning up hills, unless it's brand spanking new I'm never quite as keen to smash the pedals as hard as I can and risk a scrotum-stem interface like I would with a SS sprocket and chain.
2) SS sheds a LOT of weight from the rear of the bike, which makes it handle noticeably differently when climbing over the rough stuff. And you can mentally be a lot braver threading the bike through rocks/stumps when there's not £200 of rear mech hanging off it waiting to catch them.

I’m not sure if HG freehub spacers fit on microspline freehubs?

They do but there's a little bit of a gap between the smaller MS freehub and the HG spacer (HG is roughly 3mm larger in diameter than MS). It's not ideal and I'm looking for an economical way to make MS spacers, at the minute we'll only make spacers to specific lengths, ie if you know what sizes they need to be we can make them but it's not viable (at the minute) for us to make a Micro Spline spacer kit with loads of different thicknesses to play with because of the time it'd take to make them (and the price they'd need to be because of that) 😐

+1 on 'just sticking it in a gear and leaving it' not giving a real idea of SS, the weight difference is really noticeable and there's an amount of flex* and drag** in a derailleur system that just isn't there in a good SS setup.

* trigonometry baby!
** I don't care how good you are at spannering, there's drag in them there clutches and jockey wheels.

I get it's not fully the same but if your really unsure and don't want to commit money then it's at least similar for a ride or two. At that point then yes trying it properly is the way to go. I think I trialed SS on shonky worn bits from the shop rubbish bin before spending on a nice kit.

I do miss SS, maybe time to build a new one soon.

I've come across your MS cogs in my search Kayla but saw that you didn't do spacers so wasn't sure how that'd work. So you can use HG spacers, it's just not ideal? Also I think I've seen people having to bodge a sort of end cap/washer because the lockring is smaller?? How do you go about that?
Thanks

You need an end cap sort of thing to be able to lock everything in place, yes. People have been using the smallest cog(s) from an MS cassette with HG spacers, it's not ideal (again!) but it works ok.

edit- I've just found some metric aluminium tube on t'interweb so I've ordered some and we'll see if we can whittle some Micro Spline spacers/end caps up from it.

That sounds good Kayla, let me know how that goes - as it stands I was heading towards getting an hg freehub as the cog/end cap setup isn't that appealing. But if you can make that work I'd certainly be interested.
On the tensioning side I'm looking for something as neat as possible and have just come across using a blackspire stinger on the iscg tabs pushed up. Looks neat. Any experience?

If you are wookie sized then consider going 1/8 rather than 3/32

I use 9sp chain (pc951) and have done for 6 years or so. There's no benefit in 1x chains IME, even extremely expensive track types. Have been using a Shimano thick/thin ring since summer 2017. Not much wear.

Have used a blackspire stinger myself. It's neat and easy to readjust - just don't tighten everything too much and you can just give it a tap upwards. The dmr version has more adjustment on it (the blackspire may want tinkering with a bit if you're a bit 'between links') It means there's no screwing around if you need to get the back wheel out.

If you're lucky you can magic ratio it but make sure the chainline is good.

If you're this far down the road just go for it.

If you are wookie sized then consider going 1/8 rather than 3/32

I've been told (albeit, by a mate, rather than science) that tehre's 'more technology going into 3/32 chains", so they are getting better than 1/8th..

I generally run 3/32 as my chainrings/cogs are all 3/32...

DrP

The thing with single speed chains is they tend to have slightly taller side plates and less side-to-side flex than geary chains so they're less likely to come off when it gets bumpy. No need for posh track chains or whatever, a brown KMC single speed chain is a few quid and will last [i]ages[/i] -

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CHKMCZ1W/kmc-z1-wide-1-2-x-1-8-chain?gclid=Cj0KCQiArt6PBhCoARIsAMF5wahX6si8lp1sUC1X7TrqCzNlk1PHzHnrZYDPdOU4Txvwc3ODB9SBKIMaArieEALw_wcB#CHKMCZ1W-112-BRN

As per kayla... whether a skinny or fat chain, get singlespeed (i was suggesting it's possible that the thinner singlespeed chains hav more science in them. But as i write this, I too cn see how odd that sounds!!!)

DrP

I thought the reason to avoid 1/8 chain was initially the weight, then they actually end up weaker in practice? The plates are the same, they just have longer rivets and rollers. So under ideal conditions, they both have the same breaking load. But because you can't get 1/8 chainrings the chain isn't supported that well and the 1/8 chain can roll over slightly which puts more strain on one side of the rivet which is how chains fail in the real world.

The only bike I run a 1/8 chain on is my commuter fixie, and that's just because one snapped and Halfords had that one or a geared one for twice the price. It's not snapped, and I've had 1/8 chains before, mainly by ignorance/accident when ordering. So I'd put it down more to there being no point in 1/8 chain, rather than it being inferior.

On the tensioning side I’m looking for something as neat as possible and have just come across using a blackspire stinger on the iscg tabs pushed up. Looks neat. Any experience?

The common issue with anything that pushes up is it relies on you having very close to the ideal chain length to start with. If you're only just too short and have to add almost 1" of chain to make it work then they can't take up that much slack on most frames before they hit the chainstay.

It does look neater though and makes getting the wheel out marginally easier if you have to do it a lot.

YMMV but I just found them heavier and wear quicker. I think the 'technology' thing comes from either Sheldon or Surly. I went through a fair spread from pc1 up to some track use approved thing at twelfty quid. In and of itself the expensive one was a nice thing, and I used a few of them, but readily available 8,9,10 speed have far more load put through them with some Clydesdale running 28:46 than you'll ever put through it at 32:18 stood up pulling your best sex-wee face.😀

Each to their own though. 👍

The thick/thin Shimano ring I've been running a few years might just be hooking up a bit now I come to think about it - I caught my shadow yesterday and remember noticing the bottom of the chain bouncing a bit. She'll be fine for a while yet I reckon. 11speed slx ring running pc951 chain which is relatively new.

The common issue with anything that pushes up is it relies on you having very close to the ideal chain length to start with. If you’re only just too short and have to add almost 1″ of chain to make it work then they can’t take up that much slack on most frames before they hit the chainstay

Gotcha.I think I'll try that first though as it looks much nicer than the rear push down type and much much nicer than the derailleur type..

The gospel: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/singlespeed.html

Cheers for the replies RE the 1/8th vs 3/32..
It was either gonna be science or Magic as the reasons... 😉

DrP

This is handy for getting somewhere close to the right ratios for your frame's chainstay length-

http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/chain_length/chainlengthcalc.html

Using that, it shows that I can use a 37t front ring and either a 19t on the back for trail stuff or an 18t for more trundley, cycle path stuff on my Switchback (running 26" wheels). I've got two sets of wheels, one with knobblies and a 19t cog and one with rolly tyres and an 18t cog, there's just enough adjustment on a Stinger type tensioner to take up the slack on the 18t cog.

edit- we make 3mm cogs and rings for use with 1/8" chains 😁

I’m using a 1/8 chain, chainring and cog. It my mind it’s stronger but that’s probably psychological.

https://www.bikepunx.com/singlespeed-sprocketscogs-196-c.asp

This is handy for getting somewhere close to the right ratios for your frame’s chainstay length

That's really useful thanks. Do you know how close you'd have to be to a full link size to be able to use the push up tensioner? Anything up to .5" out sound ok?

I'm not massively heavy so it sounds like either chain thickness will be fine. That kmc chain is bloody cheap which is good!

Some great advice so far, thanks. I kind of feel obliged to do it now but the thought of some of the hills around here is making my legs buckle already 😆

I might give it a whirl with my current 34t chainring before buying a new one. Seems that for steepish mountain biking pairing that with some like a 22/24 cog would be a good start? Any advice on ratios? (29er 2.3 tyre)

I might give it a whirl with my current 34t chainring before buying a new one. Seems that for steepish mountain biking pairing that with some like a 22/24 cog would be a good start? Any advice on ratios? (29er 2.3 tyre)

I'd go with 34:21 then unless you live somewhere flat. "Traditional" would be 52" (so 29/52 *34 = 19) but in general you can always learn to spin faster so knock a couple of teeth onto that figure.

Lower than that and I've found it frustrating on non-technical flatter bits so 22+ would be excessive. Those gears are generally available and sold to people playing bicycle polo rather than MTB or the occasional fat bike.

What you need is a gear that's just barely comfortable to climb quickly whilst standing up (because that's your default SS pace). Because downhill is all about coasting and pumping for speed with the odd pedal stroke out of tight corners.

Ok. 34:21 gives me a very close round up to a whole chain link too so it looks like it'd work well from a tensioning perspective. I am worried about the hills though, it's pretty steep here! (west yorks) But I want a challenge and to get fit and would find it frustrating if it's too spinny..
I've read 32:20 is pretty standard for mtb and 34:21 is very close to that so probably a good start.