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Trouble is what would happen, even if they were asked, is they would just dole out the same ‘we’re trying our best, bike Industry is hard, we’ll try and be better, etc’ bollocks they always have.
The only thing that will fix their reputation now is action. Refund those that want refunds, give honest estimates of delivery times (under promise, over deliver) and stop ****ing around with side projects and renderings. There’s a reason start up brands only have one or two models to behind with then expand when they do well (DMR, Cotic, Starling, Stanton). Seems Sick wanted what those brands have, but from day one and with none of the financial security.
I think my main issue is the reputation they have on the forum here and over on pinkbike, then the weird disconnect of the content on the front pages of the websites. It's like pb and stw seem to think the forum users aren't reading front page content, and I'll admit to heading to the forum as opposed consuming the front page as often as I used to, but still...
That post got 736 odd likes this thread has 53 voices...sick wins
Not sure the anger is an energy thing is down yet
I make it 22 comments there vs 85 here, but whatever. They paid you for your work yet?
Probs the same 736 that back their kickstarter campaigns
I make it 22 comments there vs 85 here, but whatever. They paid you for your work yet?
ah but thats not likes is it and thats what counts in the modern world ....exposure
i have heard more from their customers ...
How many of those likes are from actual happy customers and not 10 year old fan boys.
I understand Mick is a respected frame builder, but I'm not sure of his credentials as a social media guru - or what some of his cryptic postings are supposed to actually mean.
I feel this need sharing far and wide... from pinkbike thread
I had the same experience as alot of people. just fed BS from the word go. Had to fight them for ages for a refund too before they caved. I would be interested to know exactly how many people have received frames vs order. See the BS they send me other months. Just excuses that never added up
____________________________________________________
Jake,
Orders are shipping already, as I explained.
There are 2 us us sorting a backlog of 100s of frames. And it’s gonna take some time. We can’t do this any quicker.
We have continually apologised for the manufacturing delay. Nothing we can do about it.
Every outstanding frame is boxed and ready to ship. It just takes time. We aren’t giant or Specialized.
I can’t give you a date, you will get an email from the delivery hub when it ships, with a tracking number.
I’m struggling to think how this could be done any differently based on the resource we have, and the number of frames we are trying to ship.
Again, I thank you for baring with us.
___________________________________________________________________
I asked for refund and got this:
Jake,
At this late in the day, we are not going to offer a refund. And having waited as long as you have, you would simply be cutting your most off to spite your face. It’s seems trite.
We operate a really small business here. The terms you speak in below work for big companies, I have managed operations for big companies and you can do exactly as you describe.
But it’s currently me; and Jordan. Taking new orders; sorting customers, launching crowd funded bikes and everything that comes with running a good bike company.
It’s going to be with you really soon. And you’re going to love it. And the whole wait will be forgotten and you will be riding your new bike.
We can’t apologise enough for the delays, we really can’t and if ringing me and venting and getting it all off your chest sorts it, your welcome to.
But asking for a refund a few days before delivery when you have waited this long, it’s not what you really want. I’m sure.
Thanks again
_________________________________________________________________
Then this:
Jake,
Ignoring the legality of the refund for a second.
Your bike is in a box, done and finished, and is on the process of shipping.
If I give you an exact date and it misses it by a day or so then we will have ‘built up hopes and dreams again’
The delay was in the manufacturing process of the bike. Buts that’s now done, and finished. I would wager it will be with you before the one you have ordered. We originally quoted 30 days as that’s what we were told it would be.
We don’t manufacture bikes ourselves. So we are at the mercy of our suppliers.
You only need to check our IG to see that customers are taking delivery of frames in the same batch as yours, we just need to process all the frames.
You are of course entitled to persue a refund through PayPal: they will open a case for you and we will have X amount of days to respond with our side of the story. But your goods will be shipping very, very soon and probably be with you long before PayPal have resolved it
I would be as frustrated as you, absolutely. But I have to stand by the decision to not refund a custom built, frame we have supplied and paid our suppliers for, purely based on it ending so close to delivery.
Kind regards
James
Customer Service
Sick! Bicycle Co_______________________________________________________________
My reply was:
James,
I can't shake the feeling that I was getting strung along. Nothing was adding up for me from the little amount of information I was given.
Even if you dont manufacture your own frames you need to at least give your customers timely and up to date information. At the end of the day they are paying for your product and services. If you cant deliver that in a timely manner then it's only fair to recieve a refund. I have persisted with constant emails to find out what is happening to be fed with vague and misleading information. 90+ days is totally not acceptable for a product and the customer service I have recieved. If the frame is boxed up and ready to go then why couldnt I get a ETA of the frame? As a paying customer you should be doing everything in your power to get your product out there as fast as you can to keep your customers happy. At the absolute minimum give them a timeframe of when they can expect to see it arrive. I felt you are merely treating this situation as when we get around to it then we will ship it out. This whole exprience has been an eye opener and definitely disappointing. You say you are a small business and not like the other big bike companies. In that case your customers should be of the up most importance, but sadly this is not the case.I appreciate your prompt response.
Thanks
_____________________________Then i got this:
Jake
Refund will be issued today
Cheers
James
Customer Service
Sick! Bicycle Co__________________________________________________________________
There are 31 emails all up back and forth asking for dates and them not being able to provide any. Just playing the victim saying we've had delays with this and that. Then saying it's all packed and ready to go then 2 weeks weeks goes by with no confirmation. I really hope people stop funding their scheme and the bike media can call these pricks out.
‘Ignoring the legality of the refund for a second’ was a particular highlight.
@singletrackandi did you talk about that with them?
James, care to explain what you meant by that?
cryptic
What's cryptic it's simple numbers
You have a good few hundred people in some cases thousands of people thinking the sun shines no matter what happens.
'100's of frames waiting to be shipped.'
Even I could get them shipped next day from my house. All you need is a computer and printer to sort out the labels. Ring the Courier to collect, and your job is done.
Or do they expect us to believe a container of unpacked frames has arrived at their 'warehouse' and they need to pack them up before posting:?
Even then, I reckon 2 days would sort it.
They are full of BS.
If they stopped typing so much guff they might actually get something done.
#tradingstandardz
Your bike is in a box, done and finished, and is on the process of shipping.
If I give you an exact date and it misses it by a day or so...
Lukas, my friendly local DPD driver, delivers within an hour window. I get an email the day before to let me know he'll be with me between x and y o'clock. He never fails to hit his window, and i deed usually arrives within the first quarter of the hour. He's also always cheerful, packages are delivered with care, etc.
FitBit recently did a warranty replacement for Mrs CFH. They acknowledged that there was a problem, and to make sure of a happy customer, had it delivered on a "before noon" next day service by DHL. Yes, a bit more expensive, but if you've got a potentially unhappy customer, that's what you do - Make the extra effort to keep them happy, or to make them happy.
So, if the bike is indeed in a box, done and finished, they could give the customer not only an exact date, but an exact hour, and be 99% confident of the delivery being made within that hour. That would make the customer happy.
Pathetic excuses.
But flashy, that doesn’t represent the UK scene.
Duh...
Does seem odd to be telling the customer that their item is boxed and ready to ship repeatedly. If it was ready, then move it up delivery line and get it sent sooner.
Are you allowed to publish other people's emails? #notaskingforafriend
For example I send Dave an email
Dave replies
Dave's section is not mine ?
So can I publish Dave's return email
But flashy, that doesn’t represent the UK scene.
Longer (wait times), lower (customer numbers) and slacker (approach to customer care).
It's like Donald Trump decided to start a bike company.
New school social media misinformation and misdirection disruptive shite.
Are you allowed to publish other people’s emails? #notaskingforafriend
Fairly normal in the media, if it saves somebody else getting scammed it's probably worth it.
Fairly normal in the media, if it saves somebody else getting scammed it’s probably worth it.
Really see an actual legal person told me once upon a time I wasn't allowed to do this unless I had enough firepower in the bank to let it play out
Edit
Holy shit the advertising bot
Mickmcd it depends on their disclaimer, if it says only intended for the recipient and not to be shared etc or words to that effect then no not really, however if someone has good reason to act as a whistle blower as they believe the other is acting illegitimately then I don’t think they they would have any issue in a court. The fact that the Suck bicycle co customer service person said “ignoring the legality of a refund “ means they wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. I also very much doubt they could find the 20-30k to put a libel case together.
I’m assuming those that are told their frames are ready and waiting for shipping aren’t within driving distance. I’d want to call their bluff and turn up to collect the frame personally.
Looking at that image near the top of the page, it appears they could do with some life coaching.
"Dress smart, work smart" is something that I was told as a youngster trying to make it in the adult world.
Get out of bed in the morning in a timely fashion. Make sure you have a shower, a shave, brush your teeth, comb your hair. Wear a clean shirt and a tie, polish your shoes etc.
Take pride in your appearance and you'll take pride in your work.
Wear a clean shirt and a tie, polish your shoes etc.
Take pride in your appearance and you’ll take pride in your work.
If you’re working in the city or 1958 this would apply. Not trying to derail the thread, but the move away from short and tie in most jobs is to be applauded. If I were at a MTB show and the brand representatives were suited and booted it would look ten kinds of wrong.
Everyone should assume that whatever they put in writing is effectively released into the public domain.
My organisation has these nonsense disclaimers on our emails and they really dont mean much execpt in quite specific contractual circumstances.
“Dress smart, work smart” is something that I was told as a youngster trying to make it in the adult world.
Get out of bed in the morning in a timely fashion. Make sure you have a shower, a shave, brush your teeth, comb your hair. Wear a clean shirt and a tie, polish your shoes etc.
Take pride in your appearance and you’ll take pride in your work
There goes answering emails..in your boxers eating cornflakes first thing am
Take pride in your appearance and you’ll take pride in your work.
Are you saying a man covered in tattoos doesn’t take pride in his appearance? None of them look like they do by accident.
I was at the bike show today, Sick had a big stand but it was pretty quiet. Walked past a few times and didn't see many people there, Atherton stand was pretty busy all the time though.
Are you allowed to publish other people’s emails
An email is the same as a letter or a phone call, it's a statement.
In this day of age you should treat all correspondence as if it was being published or you are being recorded. That way, if its ever published you have nothing to worry about.
Nothing is ever off the record these days.
Good to know I've got some proper charmers from some proper two faced ****ers ...it will be great to publish them without fear of legal implications....
What’s cryptic it’s simple numbers
You have a good few hundred people in some cases thousands of people thinking the sun shines no matter what happens.
I think you just have an unusual turn of phrase that I sometimes find it difficult to follow Mick, no offence meant.
With regard to the publishing emails thing, it does kind-of depend on the content, context and medium used to "publish" - however it's unlikely to land you in any real legal bother.
That's based on studying libel law for journalists and working as one for many years, I'm not an actual lawyer but you're welcome to message me if you'd like a semi-informed opinion.
I doubt you'd fall foul of defamation unless you adjusted the text or published it so wildly out of context that it distorted the meaning in a way that was potentially defamatory.
The only possible legal issue would be any expectation of privacy in email communication. I can't see any circumstances in which a communication between a company and customer of that type would fall into that category. The condition of confidentiality would have to be made and agreed by both parties up front.
Has anyone else watched The Inventor?
I think you just have an unusual turn of phrase that I sometimes find it difficult to follow Mick, no offence meant.
With regard to the publishing emails thing, it does kind-of depend on the content, context and medium used to “publish” – however it’s unlikely to land you in any real legal bother.
That’s based on studying libel law for journalists and working as one for many years, I’m not an actual lawyer but you’re welcome to message me if you’d like a semi-informed opinion
wasn't offended sadly im from yorkshire quite dry and write as i think luckily i dont have to interact effectively with the public at large
wasnt trying to be cryptic the way i figure social media works is that if you have enough numbers even bad publicity is good for you
chief ...elizabeth holmes theranos
wasnt trying to be cryptic the way i figure social media works is that if you have enough numbers even bad publicity is good for you
Nah, it just means that it's harder and harder to suppress bad news and bad events like this. You can't delete all the comments and things like screen shots mean that it's starts to look way more obvious what you are doing.
i figure social media works is that if you have enough numbers even bad publicity is good for you
If you have a good product/business, it can help to put divisive statements on social media, as your followers will lap it up, and the haters will share it, in an attempt to discredit you, thereby putting your business out there further to more eyes. chances are, 50% will like what you do.
EG The White Moose Cafe, said Vegans would be shot on sight, breastfeeding mothers would be charged corkage, and the gluten intolerant would have to produce a doctors note. They have the kind of 6 figure following sick dream of, their reviews are either 5 star or 1 star, nothing in-between. but they are a cafe, they do decent food, and if one of their followers happens to be in dublin, chances are they will seek it out, just to check in.
bit different when there are legitimate claims of a shoddy business, people not getting what they paid for, and a general **** you vibe.
It's clear that they can't take criticism. They see someone shocked at how they treat a customer and instead of taking it as motivation to improve, they see it as a wish for them to quit.
That instagram post suggests that they take it much better when the meet with people face-to-face and that does provide motivation for them.
I haven't really seen many people wish their business to fail - just that they make good on their promises and stop lying. Repeating the same pre-order model after already being called out on past failings is a bit off-putting though.
I think it's a shame about the name. Hope they mange to come up with a decent alternative.
That instagram post suggests that they take it much better when the meet with people face-to-face and that does provide motivation for them.
I've got to admit I've been following this thread (and one or two others here and on Pinkbike) certainly with a wish that they'd sort it out rather than quit. I think their frames aren't something I'm likely to buy any time soon (or even attempt to buy), but I do quite like the punk image etc.
But I've found many times at work that it's a lot harder to just dismiss someone as a dick when you have a face to face meeting with them. Working on projects in various foreign countries with a small team here, it's easy to take an "us and them" attitude, but get across to visit the client and no matter how the project has been going things seem better.
Anyway, I hope Sick! can take something away from their face to face meetings and find a way out of the hole they've dug themselves, which will undoubtedly require a decent degree of motivation - and fewer excuses.
"chief …elizabeth holmes theranos"
Yep. Amazing how what starts as a good but improbable idea can end up in an insane spiral of deception and delusion and take a lot of believers down with it.
I don’t wish them to fail either. Just wish they would act like grown ups, sort out existing customers before catering to new and own their mistakes. They come across like teenagers in most posts.
Likewise, although I prefer the bikes* to the imagine. Its the lies and excuses that get on my wick. The "from an aero background" followed by "out of our hands" really does it for me as the former would rip you a new one for using the latter quote
*obviously I acknowledge that as an STW member I would never be allowed to buy one
I'm currently writing a general piece on the mindset of crowd funded ventures and they'll be in there but what is interesting to me is their complete lack of willingness to own up to their mistakes and the the attempts to write their own history by shutting down any critics on social media and sucking up to the fanbois.
The “from an aero background” followed by “out of our hands” really does it for me as the former would rip you a new one for using the latter quote
From a few things I've heard being at the mercy of your supply chain and offer no form of control over it!!
The Sick boys should stop poncing about and get back to the basics of running a business. Step back from the internet, get their sh!t together and sort their customers out.
As for the Trademark 'issue'. Look at registering "Sick Corp" and "Sick Bicycle Co" and select the relevant classes (eg Bicycles Class 12)
Recommended reading: Starting a Business For Dummies (BTW this is a serious recommendation)
IMHO they've got something good about them, just don't F$$k it up Sick Boys.
I understand bike mags being essentially glossy adverts
Bike “journalism” is too timid to even bite a hand that doesn’t feed it.
I used to do some freelance writing for magazines in an unrelated industry, but the companies in which shared a very similar business model to the bike industry. I recall a number of occasions where someone at the mag asked me to revise my review to be more positive as the manufacturer wouldn't like negative comments, which would affect the advertising revenue.
Now, I'm not suggesting that a magazine should be fiercely editorially independent to the point of pissing off its advertisers, but I think that some mags/websites struggle with the balance.
For what it's worth, though, I think STW are closer to having the balance right than many others.
Now, I’m not suggesting that a magazine should be fiercely editorially independent to the point of pissing off its advertisers, but I think that some mags/websites struggle with the balance.
Which is really interesting as I don't think the Sick guys have much of an advertising budget for print etc.
@tomhoward I didn't speak to them about it simply because we have a story on the brew about Sick which Hannah is working on now. Her plan is to interview people at Sick to see what they have to say, I didn't want to sour her chances of getting that arranged and published as it's a pretty important story.
FYI we know of a contributor who has been messed about by Sick too, which is where Hannah's story actually stemmed from. So keep your eyes peeled for that.
Also, someone called me a "Fanboi" of Sick's because I posted a photo from their stand. The bike is actually owned by someone I know and who happens to be a rather cool guy. It's not his fault he owns a Sick branded (actually Marino) frame 😉
I saw that Insta post, you gave them a winking emoji.......a WINKING EMOJI FFS!!1!! Totally unacceptable
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😉
@mashr Ah, yes I do need to calm my emoji game down quite a bit 😉 damn it!! 😉 ......
Hmmm, I'm thinking it will go something like this:
STW Hannah
"Hi guys, care to do an interview about your bikes?"
Sick!
"What magazine?"
STW Hannah
"Singletrack"
Sick!
reckon 3 accusations of drug use and a sexist comment
PS edit
there's a lot of folks in here who do writing for a living
and
stress enginners
I didn’t speak to them about it simply because we have a story on the brew about Sick which Hannah is working on now. Her plan is to interview people at Sick to see what they have to say, I didn’t want to sour her chances of getting that arranged and published as it’s a pretty important story.
Looking forward to it. Got a timeline on it yet?
How much does a stand at a Bike Show cost?
£5k?
How do they pay for that when they have sold so few frames?
If you've paid upfront, maybe have a google of 'ponzi schemes'.
. Hannah is working on now. Her plan is to interview people at Sick to see what they have to say, I didn’t want to sour her chances of getting that arranged and published as it’s a pretty important story.
reckon cat is out of bag
singletrackandi
@tomhoward I didn’t speak to them about it simply because we have a story on the brew about Sick which Hannah is working on now. Her plan is to interview people at Sick to see what they have to say, I didn’t want to sour her chances of getting that arranged and published as it’s a pretty important story.
Fair play Andi/Hannah - will be interested to read that, there's a good story to be told there from a customer's perspective.
There are some good leads in this thread for any budding investigative reporter to be pursuing, I'd suggest.
Hmmm, I’m thinking it will go something like this:
STW Hannah
“Hi guys, care to do an interview about your bikes?”
Sick!
“What magazine?”
STW Hannah
“Singletrack”
Singletrack -
We approach Sick! about this article, but they declined to talk to us.
That usually tells you more than if they did want to have their voice heard.
Looking forward to it. Got a timeline on it yet?
It's just being finished now, should be with you soon. Can't give you an exact date though, for reasons...
I hope Hannah shows them where the reply button is in outlook