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eventually this frame will be mine 😈 see plenty out and about now, but dont see many pics on here, so inspire me with some of your bronsons please!
[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3843/14863241975_e6f3132825_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3843/14863241975_e6f3132825_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/oDq11F ]20140808_110156[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/43020435@N08/ ]lowey.com[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3908/14600734223_68c62808d6_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3908/14600734223_68c62808d6_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/ofdzAX ]20140705_143259[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/43020435@N08/ ]lowey.com[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3913/14386440771_bcb248b061_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3913/14386440771_bcb248b061_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/nVhgCg ]20140521_195431[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/43020435@N08/ ]lowey.com[/url], on Flickr
Up date on that link I got the Bronson, great bike, brilliant handling. Certainly no regrets. It's been flawless and suits how I ride. If you haven't already done so get a demo day to make sure it's the one for you.
Seconded what pawsy said, it's a cracking bike - it's way better than I am at any rate. Only had it a couple of months and already absorbed a few of my mistakes and kept me on it where I'd have gone over the bars in the past. Anyway, you wanted photos:
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Is this pretty much a 27.5" Blur LT2, with the VPP2 suspension etc?
Never seen one in the flesh, but look cracking from the pics so far.
Posted before but here it is again 8)
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One of the worst mountain bikes I've ever ridden. Each to their own.
Not often I'd agree with JCL, but I rode a demo out in Whistler this week, as my wife wanted one badly. We picked it up at 10 and had it for the day. They had it back by 11. She was so disappointed, as her heart was set on it. We don't often agree on bikes, but I also rode it, to see why she wasn't complaining so much.
It went up great. I went down like sh*t.
Does everything very well for me without any fuss. Which is what I was looking for rather than something that was useless going up but fantastic down.
I've heard conflicting reports about them. Mostly negative.
Would like to have a go to see why.
Hob Nob, can you elaborate any more on your experience, in what way was it poor on the downs, I'm not questioning your knowledge I'm genuinely interested as I'm going to be replacing an Alu Nomad shortly and was thinking about this bike specifically as it's basically an old Nomad, the new ones too slack for me etc.
I'll be riding Whistler, Colorado, Alps on it so it's pretty important that it comes down well. My nomad has to be the best bike I've ridden it's just so good on the downward stuff and also surprisingly effective on the ups. Dependant on my legs and lungs of course.
IF I am honest though.......... I think the Bronson Is Fugly ! I'm not keen on that brace and think the rear triangle looks skew, I quite like a bike to be symmetrical like the Nomad, like the Heckler how it forms around the seat tube and is pleasing on the eye. I know it's not imperative and it won't be a deal breaker as long as it works but if its not compliant on the descents then I'm sticking with Nomads.
I came from a Blur LTC2 to the Bronson and can say its a definite evolutionary step but not revolutionary from the Blur. I feel it sits in the middle of the road with its attributes, climbs and descends well and is comfortable for all day riding. It doesn't truly excel in any area but also doesn't do anything badly. With the current Enduro specific bikes coming out I'm not sure how it would do against them. It would hold its own but would it be king, doubtful.
I got mine as frame warranty for the Blur but would I put my own hard earned cash down for one, probably not purchased at UK prices but maybe from the US although I would like to see a few of the newer bikes before I decided.
Discoduck, make sure you try the Nomad first, thats all I will say.
some nice pics there, has anyone got the green colourway one?
agreed its best to test, ive had a little go on a mates, even though his was a medium it felt nice the brief ride i had (id need a large)
i'd consider a nomad too but it would require new forks i think as my pikes are 150mm they do just look amazing in real life especially if its built like ricks is!
If your thinking Bronson, have a serious look at a Pivot Mach 6. Only had mine month and a half, but IMO it is just such an awesome bike. This is probably the first bike I've had where I never really stop for a rest, I just want to keep going on it. It's such a larf to ride. Bit cheaper than a Bronson too. Demo bikes available too.
Different colour way other than the tennis yellow.....
Love this bike does everything that's want it to.
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JCL - MemberOne of the worst mountain bikes I've ever ridden. Each to their own.
One of the worst, curious to know why??
Rick, do you have a new Nomad ?
How does it ride on the slower technical descents, how Is it on the slow climbs with switchbacks like at Dalby.
I've had a bit of a wake up call this afternoon, after winging and whining about having a Plastic bike my mate reminded me that I made as much noise in the early 90's when things went from steel to Alu.
One of the worst, curious to know why??
Suspension. Rising rate to sag point, falling from there on. I have no idea how people deal with it? Unless they're used to 150mm bikes feeling like 100mm.
Same goes for all SC's VPP's.. Fundamentally flawed.
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I have no idea what that graph shows but are the other two single pivot bikes ?
Hideous the lot of 'em.
JCL - As they say each to their own, but as an observation I thought the idea of the VPP was to counteract the natural rising rate of an air shock so the switch from rising to falling on the VPP ends up giving a linear rate of travel?
That's what I thought as well, a bit like a boy racer looking at BHP hikes on a graph, when what your actually supposed to be looking for is a fairly flat torque curve right across the rev range.
All that graph shows me* as a casual observer is that its set up wrong on the other 2 ?
You can even see where it ramps up at the end of the stroke where it bottoms out, or is that not what it shows, can some one explain what's going on with the graph, any one from TF, Loco etc who knows what they are on about.
And how come no one else knows that link activated VPP style suspension doesent work.
Weird. Mt LTc is miles better than any spesh I've ever ridden, including enduros.
My Nomad is the best bike I've ever ridden,
Same goes for all SC's VPP's
Mr Bryceland seems to cope with the handicap quite well
Try not to forget that unless you've got a steel hardtail you'll have your bike pooh poohed on this forum.
😉
eh? Lets not let facts get in the way of a good linching now shall we!
According to that ^^ graph up there, the "leverage" ratio varies between 2.4 and 2.65. And yet, with an air shock, everytime you halve it's volume you DOUBLE it's pressure (and hence it's rate). Hence, the SC VPP still has a rising rate suspension characteristic at ALL points in it's travel.
Which means WHAT ? Exactly
Is that a good thing or a bad thing,
And surely its a rising rate as the link in effect activates the stroke, where as a single pivot bike is solely reliant on the axle and the shock the VPP is reliant upon an axle, shock and an added Linkage which transfers the rate at which the shock is activated.
Is there not another graph somewhere which shows how happy SC owners are ?
I had a frame warrantied the other year with NO quibble, and as i keep on saying it rides really well. 
Compared to a Heckler the VPP nomad is well no Comparison, and compared to another popular single pivot Orange 5, its laughable. So i cant see why or how the VPP Link Activated Shock doesent work, on paper maybe its a bit confusing but out on the Trail is where it counts.
Mr Bryceland seems to cope with the handicap quite well
The shock is actuated by the lower link on the V10. The upper link actuation is the problem.
What's happening in that graph is the suspension is initially regressive to 50mm and then slowly moves progressive from there on. So the bike has a load of anti-squat to cope with the regressive suspension to sag point.
The other two bikes in the graph have typical, predictable, falling leverage rates. As do most other designs.
^^^^^ Are you confusing "leverage ratio" with "spring rate"??
This is an interesting read,
http://members.home.nl/vd.kraats/ligfiets/pa/pa45.html
Here's a plot of "Normalised spring rate" for those three leverage curves you have shown, for a nominal volume Fox RP2 rear air shock:
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As you can see, the rising rate of the air spring overwhelms the minor differences in leverage ratio by a massive factor! If you can ride a bike and spot a less than 5% difference in spring rate at one point in the rear suspension travel i'll eat my hat (i'm pretty sure i couldn't). Yes, the suspension systems will probably "feel" slightly different, but to say "SC VPP is complete rubbish" is not really true now is it!! And that's before we consider the effects of chain load etc 😉 (negation of which is i believe the real aim of VPP?)
I read this thread and now I have a headache. I don't even want a new mountain bike.
JCL, thanks for the reply.
I don't really do graphs just like to ride on feel, adjust when necessary and if needed then try a few things out.
To say it's one of the worst bikes you have ever ridden, well have you actually ridden one or are you just looking at graphs?
If it really is one of the worst you have ridden fair play but I'm intrigued to know what bikes you have ridden 😉
Just curious really..
I might be biased because I have one but it puts a massive grin on my face each time I ride it and I've ridden a few.
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I have a lot of love for my Bronson, minor blip in relationship after developing excessive fade / scratch after a weeks riding during Megavalanche week (muddy conditions) but that feeling of disappointment (strictly cosmetic) was quickly resolved by exceptional customer service by way of new frame en route from Uncle Sam.
What all you fules is forgetting is that JCL knows about kinematics and shit. Remarkable restraint in not dropping that in there yet JCL, well done.
Remarkably talented but then he does work in a bike shop 😆
I'm more concerned after seeing those graphs that my spitfire is shit!
Hob Nob, can you elaborate any more on your experience, in what way was it poor on the downs, I'm not questioning your knowledge I'm genuinely interested as I'm going to be replacing an Alu Nomad shortly and was thinking about this bike specifically as it's basically an old Nomad, the new ones too slack for me etc.I'll be riding Whistler, Colorado, Alps on it so it's pretty important that it comes down well. My nomad has to be the best bike I've ridden it's just so good on the downward stuff and also surprisingly effective on the ups. Dependant on my legs and lungs of course.
Looking at the graph, it does sort of make sense from that, both of our opinion was we thought maybe the shock was left in climb mode! or the air pressure was way too high! but we checked everything. It rode like a really short travel steep angled bike, which you were all over the front of.
The build kit, whilst blingy as hell (full XTR, Enve's etc) was odd, 80mm stem and 711 Havens feels really strange when you are used to 50mm stems and wide bars, so I don't think that helped, as is dragged you further over the front.
I'd read a fair amount of grumblings about the down performance of the frame, mostly seemingly aimed at the shock, and a retune, or binning it completely seems to improve things, but that's not a cheap fix.
Suspension. Rising rate to sag point, falling from there on. I have no idea how people deal with it? Unless they're used to 150mm bikes feeling like 100mm.
This is incorrect. As Maxtorque has pointed out, you're confusing leverage ratio with spring rate. It is actually a falling rate to sag point, then rising.
To explain: When you speak of a "rising" or "falling" rate, in suspension design this refers to the spring rate & not the leverage ratio.
Falling rate suspension is one that gets easier to compress as it moves through its travel - sometimes called the trap door effect. This can be exaggerated by incorrect shock spec' such as a large volume air shock or coil shock.
Rising rate suspension is one that becomes harder to compress as it moves through its travel.
So, because the leverage ratio on both the Burner and Spitfire go from 3.3 & 3.05 to 2.5 & 2.15 respectively this means it gets harder to compress their springs - this is sometimes called ramping up. When coupled with an air shock which, as pointed out gets harder to compress the further it is compressed, you get a bike that ramps up a lot throughout its travel. This is often a good thing as it sometimes gives that "bottomless" feel (depending on other things such as just how much volume the shock has and it's ending
Leverage ratio).
I've never ridden any I these bikes - I'm just looking at that graph; It's sometimes the case that a manufacturer will present these types of graph as evidence of ride characteristics. For example, the falling rate up to sag point could be presented as "excellent small bump compliance". But it could just as easily be ignored because if it's before the point of sag its irrelevant (we don't use that much of the travel 'before' sag do we?).
Bit because it's now 4am & I'm really tired I'll finish by saying that what you're actually (possibly) saying is that you prefer certain characteristics over others - & that is absolutely fine, but I wouldn't try and demonstrate a personal opinion/preference with a graph...
To the OP - go & ride one & see for yourself. I hated every Specialized and Turner 4 bar I tried, even though all the magazines raved about them. It wasn't until I rode a Titus Super Moto that I realised that not all 4-bars weren't the same. It's the same with VPP/DW link bikes - they all feel different. It all boils down to how it feels to you & not some bloke on a website or in a mag'.
Riding bikes is the only way to tell, if you keep looking at graphs and get charts you probably also like to keep your bikes polished in the garage rather than ride them. The fatally flawed vpp design makes the back of my blur ltc feel locked to the floor and grippy as he'll. I had to relearn how to ride it as it was so different to riding my old single pivot bikes and different to the fsr enduro I had. It took 2 full days on the shuttle at rotorua to crack the changes in riding style. Once that was done it's the gift that keeps on giving. I'll be taking it back over to roto for the ews round next year if I can get in.
could never ride a bike named after this chap
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VPP2 explained...
I've personally found it very pedal friendly, glues to the trail and plush.
I'm more concerned after seeing those graphs that my spitfire is shit!
I think most people here are misreading that graph. A falling leverage ratio means that the suspension stiffness is increasing as you go through the travel - which is why Spitfires should be used with coil or large volume air shocks, and is also why they feel much longer than 140mm travel.
Regarding this graph below, I don't know if it's right but what I do know is that a rider will not perceive the Y vs X number on the graph, they will perceive the gradient of the curve and even more so the rate of change of the gradient (dy^2/dx).
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That'll probably kill this thread...
It was said a bit tongue in cheek and if I'm honest! I really should understand graphs like that but my brain won't let me outside of work.
I think most people here are misreading that graph. A falling leverage ratio means that the suspension stiffness is increasing as you go through the travel
Yeah I lost the will to reply after rising/falling rates were confused.
just go and demo one
Computer says NO !
All of my mates seems to love their SCs.....
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Well if I must, I will!
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Tested one on Saturday. Decent spec including ENVE wheels. Found it a bit dull, and didn't do anything better than my Spesh Stumpy Evo 29er, and did a few things worse. On the other hand, the Solo we also had out on demo was an absolute riot and am seriously tempted by one.
GolfChick are those custom SC decals? Where did you get them from please?
It's pretty fair to say that you either love em or hate em, there's probably as many lovers as haters and if we all liked the same things then we would be in a quandary,
It's just as well otherwise we would all be running about on the same bikes, with the same helmets and kit on.
Now that would be sad
Stevelol they're custom decals designed and sent to me by a company called vidiomgraphics in Canada, they wenre't too expensive worked out about £60 posted to me. The guy there rides bronson so had no problem measuring the existing decals. he's done quite a few now for users on mtbr and the 'show us your bronson' thread has quite a few other options as well as him doing anything custom.
tavishcapewellATmac.com thats the guys email address who i dealt with and who is actually originally from nearby to me in Kidderminster.
Are the wheel Decals from Slik Graphics ?
The Bronson looks sweet as, the Black & Pink looks great
yep wheel decals on the bottom picture are from slik graphics. Gone and sold now tho as I'm running derby rims which only come with small triangles on them to mark the valve position really and part of his 'logo'. Love the look of enve decals but I'm not paying enve prices when I can pay derby prices and get something wider. Thanks!
I have those rims now 😀 Unfortunately they're going stealth once my Solo arrives 😀
I've had a sniff at DERBY Rims, they look pretty robust.
What Spokes did you use to build them up ?
The derby rims are senstaional I have to say, they have a steam roller effect. They barely alter tyre clearance because theres no sidewall flex at all but they really do offer awesome levels of grip and go wher eyou point them. Looking forward to putting magci mary on so I can make tractor sound effects! My local shop built them up with aci f1 spokes, we considered sapim cx rays but after his advice there just werent enouch benefits to justify the costs. So far no problems at all but Ill take them up for retensioning soon purely cause tending to get through kit lately having returned a chris king under warranty because of a broken flange.
Great looking bike and the handling uphill is fantastic. Can anyone confirm the head angle I thought it was 68 degrees but this review says 67?
Santa Cruz Bronson C Review
So is it the consensus of this forum that you shouldn't use a CCDB Coil on a VPP bike?
Nice bike GolfChick btw
Yeah I like mine. It's a good bit livelier than I expected after a few internet opinions I read. Works -1 headset and 160mm Pike has slackened it to about 65.5 degrees. Shock could do with a tune to get the most out of it but I'm not complaining too much.
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Mike the leverage ratio for the older Nomads were suited to an air shocks ramp up, PUSH used to do a new linkage specifically for Bronsons with coil shock.
To summarize- youm boughted wrong uns!