You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Or alt bar
Currently got standard gravel bars but never ever use the drops!
The brakes are cable disc and not great so thinking about flat bars or alternative bars with normal brakes and 1*11 as it currently is (aware of the brake and shifter technicalities) just wanting ideas for bars
Like riding on the hoods so assume bar ends
Hybrids. The word you're looking for is hybrids.
It's OK, there's nothing to be ashamed about. You can even put a shopping basket on the front and feel like one of the crowd.
Full length flat bars, full 29er tyre clearance, modern xc geometry, sometimes 100mm fork is where it's at for most of my southern off road needs.
That's just a short travel xc hard tail surely
I rarely used the drops on my gravel bike, it was more comfortable on the hoods but even that gave me a pain in the neck after a couple of hours! Also drop bars are rubbish off road.
So I bought a rigid 29er MTB and use that instead, which for me is a much better compromise. A bit slower on the road but much more capable off road.
My gravel bike, Pinnacle Ramin.
I only use the gravel bike for fitness rides but my neck ends up hurting lots! No issue on my mtb on rides of double the length either!
I love the gravel bike for speed and efficiency, the hands on hoods position is good. Main downside is the shit brakes from the hoods!
yep, just my take on riding mild off road terrain. The singular swift above is a rigid 29er with narrow tyres on and no gears, a different approach to the same kind of mild off-road. My local terrain suits this kind of bike best (for me), rather than a genre of bike deciding terrain suitability (tested extensively with a gravel bike and lots of different tyres and 2 wheel sizes). Just covering that point early on 🙂
At what tyre width does a rigid MTB become a flat-barred gravel bike?
These are 2.1"
I think these might be 1.95"
I've had that same bike fitted with 700x40c tyres too
This is an El Mariachi with 29x1.75" tyres
As you can see, I like bar ends with that sort of combination
Main downside is the shit brakes from the hoods!
When I had my Amazon set up with BB7 cable disk brakes, I had them "good enough" for breaking from the hoods. Since I fitted hydraulics, I have no issues whatsoever (and I have wee hands).
Cotic Cascade with Jones bars.
Its not really a gravel bike and its too heavy to be an XC MTB, but its just right for me.
Gives me confidence on rougher stuff and the jones bars give plenty of positions - I did 90 odd miles on it back in the summer cycling from Grasmere back home to east lancs which involved plenty of road and bridleway and a jaunt over salter fell.
Not sure either of those are gravel bikes
"That’s just a short travel xc hard tail surely"
Wooosshhhhh
Hasn’t stopped me doing 100km on the top one and 100 miles on the bottom on Sustrans trails. They don’t call the bottom one New World Tourist for nothing.
SQ Lab 310 are a good flat(ish) bar option with a comfortable sweep but not super wide and a forward jink so you don't need a long stem to account for the rearward sweep. SQ also do inner bar ends that give a better flat bar aero position but still able to reach brake levers quickly. I've bought a fork and just doing CAD for my next frame build which will be light gravel skinny steel (with those bars and inner bar ends).
These are the 310 bars on my commuter tourer lump.
Previous CX / gravel twin top tube thing with Sturmey hub but designed around drops so a bit too short with flat bars.
No pictures to hand but a bit like failedengineer above, I have an older Croix de Fer with 620mm flat carbon bars, a fairly long, flipped stem and proper bar ends. 3x10 MTB shifter & mechs, 105 road chainset and Hope X2 brakes. With chunky 40mm tyres, it's been over the Corrieyairick and last month, with 32mm slicks, I rode 160 miles from home to Kyle of Lochalsh in a day. It may be a bit old but it's great, anytime I need to simply get somewhere (and back again). Reynolds steel frame and a sound set of wheels mean it just rides well. With a trailer hooked on, I've even used it quite a bit to do shopping trips into town.
@mister-p I'm too tired, grumpy, and full of cold to be bothered about middle aged men "whooshing" me
It's lucky you didn't take the time to acknowledge it then!
Kona Dew DL bought bargainously about 18 months ago as a general duties bike for my daughter, but since ridden and upgraded a bit by me. Must be the only one out there with Next bar, PDW guards and DT GR1600 wheels but otherwise Deore spec from factory.
OK, it’s a hybrid but I do ride gravel on it. Great all round bike for urban use too. Might rebuild it around a nicer frame but there’s not much out there like this.
It semi replaced a less successful drop bar gravel build, hence some of the upgrades to this. I found the drop bar gravel too close to my existing lighter gravel / allroad bike.
Paint is a bit flaky as befits the budget but otherwise I’m happy.
Here's mine, a Giant Fastroad AR Advanced. 2x10 (that might change), 40c tyres, it absolutely flies.
I only use the gravel bike for fitness rides but my neck ends up hurting lots!
Wrong size bike maybe mate?
I was apprehensive when buying mine as I can't do an arse up, head down position.
You know my sort of dimensions long legs, short torso etc, but being a large on all my mtb's, I followed the Boardman size guide, went for a medium and it's spot on. On a large, I'd be stretched out too much and ergo end up with a bad neck I reckon
Yeah maybe but it's what I've got now lol. I'm in the middle of the large for the frame and reduced the stem length.
Tbh the neck pain is probs because I don't ride it enough to get used to it!!
Think I'll just swap bars to these:
A very old, chromoly steel Marin San Rafael, perfect for tow paths, fire roads, bridleways and shopping!
Is it big gravel or rigid MTB. Either way its great for pootling about the moors and did the Hadrian's cycleway on it in the summer.
Sonder Frontier with Planetx Geoff bars and 1x10 Deore groupset. Tyres are currently 29x2.25 G One all round and are fine on most stuff except slippy mud. Will be putting bigger treaded tyre on for the winter soon.
Not really a flat bar gravel bike. More of a gravelised HT. But, it's great in this format, light (ish) and fast (ish).
The singular swift above is a rigid 29er with narrow tyres on and no gears,
It'd be a bit rubbish with no gears, I can assure you it has at least one
Plus a rigid 29er with narrow tyres is exactly what a gravel bike is
"Plus a rigid 29er with narrow tyres is exactly what a gravel bike is"
Was kinda the point I was skirting around, that a rigid 29er is probably ideal, and needn't have skinny tyres...or always be rigid! 🙂 Nice to see lots of very practical, versatile bikes above, none of which would fit the marketing of a 'gravel' bike, or even a 'flat bar gravel'... don't think the latter is really a category. Also, apart from the actual 90s bike or two, none of the above look at all like one when looking at the geometry etc, but we've been down that road in other threads.
About 12 years ago I was riding a Specialized Langster Monaco with flat bars and pedals as a sort of proto-gravel bike. It had heavy duty puncture proof tyres on it and I rode it on all the rough bridleways and paths/tracks I could find in Hertfordshire because there were no hills to ride MTB down. It was great to drift around dirt tracks and very light XC rides. I also enjoyed riding it around places like Ashton Court in Bristol and what would have normally been boring tracks on Dartmoor
Controversial, I'm going to say a gravel bike has to have a 40t+ chainring
Kona Dew DL bought bargainously about 18 months ago as a general duties bike for my daughter, but since ridden and upgraded a bit by me. Must be the only one out there with Next bar, PDW guards and DT GR1600 wheels but otherwise Deore spec from factory.
Pretty similar to what I ended up doing after thinking I wanted a gravel bike.
Kona Unit X, JRA XC wheels, 2.2" fast rolling tyres, full mudguards (Velo Orange), that same Specialized Pizza Rack, and a high rise handlebar.
My Sonder Camino has flat bars. It's a gravel bike apparently.
I usually have some inner bar ends fitted.
[url= https://postimg.cc/XrXj8dwG ][img] https://i.postimg.cc/bw9ZqRrT/temp-Image-CJq-MDy.avif [/img][/url]
Genesis Fortitude, sometimes wears 45mm gravel tyres. Rear rack and bags on for upcoming bikepacking trip, usually they're off the bike. Inny bar ends give you an on the hood roady position. which is nice.
My OnOne FreeRanger.1x11 sram. Nice and light.Built up from frameset when Planet X were selling them off. Was originally gravel flared drop bar but I just prefer flat bar riding. I find it more relaxed and better bike control.
Sorry image won’t load.
Plus a rigid 29er with narrow tyres is exactly what a gravel bike is
No it isn't. A flat barred gravel bike is where you take a drop barred gravel bike and put flat bars on it. That is not the same as a rigid MTB. The geometry is different, the clearances are different, the fork AC is different, it is probably a bit lighter, the seated position is different and it feels different to ride.
Whether that difference makes any difference to you is up to you but there is a clear difference between the two bikes.
Only a 38t chainring though…
And only a 26/38 on this ATB
Another neck/shoulder pain sufferer here but that’s down to several spinal fractures, bulging discs, broken collarbone and torn ligaments being restitched. The Whisky Winston’s are really comfy and put my hands in a good place which minimises the discomfort. On audaxes the tandem nubbins help with a change of hand positioning. The Passchier bars are nice on the Rambler although jury still out on position.
Controversial, I’m going to say a gravel bike has to have a 40t+ chainring
My gravel bike, marketed as a gravel bike and kept as purchased didn't.
As for those not enjoying drops but liking the on the hoods position, wouldn't going old school with narrower bars and bar ends fix that?
I had a gravel bike that mostly got used for commuting and the occasional gravel ride home.
I replaced it with a MTB that does the same thing, but with better brakes and less terror on anything bumpy and down hill.
Now you may say Hardtail*, but a Cotic Cascade is technically a gravel bike.... Sonder Scope bars with 15degree back sweep.
*I would agree and actually Cotic description says 'Adventure bike' but then says drop or flat bar, gravel or bikepacking...
Before disk brakes, and wider tyre options, nobody cared. My track bike has regulations for track, my road racing bike has regulations for road racing. My commuting bike has adaptations for commuting. My gravel bike is any bike I choose to ride on gravel, with or without adaptation. Actually it’s a cyclocross bike. But I’ve ridden my race bike too. Since gravel bikes are basically slack road bikes with granny gears, adding flat bars is the very definition of a hybrid.
Personally I prefer swept back bars to flat. Soma Sparrow are great and I use them on my SS MTB.
Very apt thread - as I nearly decide I needed a Free Ranger last week. Planet X told me I needed a L not and XL as 6ft 2 ( I have shrunk an inch).
off to geometry geeks - and other than top tube length it is nearly identical to my old RoadRat . Even head and seat angle.
So the Gravel Rat stays
Now you may say Hardtail*, but a Cotic Cascade is technically a gravel bike….
nearly identical to the mk1 solaris isn't it?
the only bike I regret getting rid of, and I did run it as a rigid bike (and 2.2 tyres, no dropper) for a while in either 2018 or 2019; possibly before gravel was cool...
Mine's a Mk IV Swift and it's fab (if a bit porky). It's really just a mostly road based gravel bike for me. I got a bit carried away in the Chiggle meltdown sale & built up a proper drop bar gravel bike, which I'm struggling to get to grips with & still mostly ride the Swift.
Winstanley currently seem to have around a quarter off of '23 flat bar Croix De Fers if anyone's after a proper flat bar gravel bike - https://winstanleysbikes.co.uk/genesis-croix-de-fer-10-flat-bar-2023-bike#187=4617
Controversial, I’m going to say a gravel bike has to have a 40t+ chainring
Both of mind have a 38t chainring
|My gravel bike is the same as my tourer and the same as my mountainbike. Sometimes I swap tyres
A gravel bike is one ridden on gravel - anything else is just marketing. |Its not a CX bike unless its built for CX racing
As for those not enjoying drops but liking the on the hoods position, wouldn’t going old school with narrower bars and bar ends fix that?
That is literally why I started the thread 🙂
I have 800mm riser bars with SQlabs inner bar ends on my rigid MTB, best of both worlds.
I liked the salsa cowchipler drops on mine and the hoods.
Now I'm on an on one Jones bar. I double wrapped bits of it last week and it was significantly nicer.
I have sq inner bar ends on one MTB for another hand.position. the 800mm wide bar is substantially nicer than narrow bars and bar ends from back in the day. The sq bar ends are supposed to allow you to brake a bit, but I couldn't get the position to work with hope V4 as the hoses stick out too much. Probably not a combo they had tried .
Trying a set of the sonder bomber 45 degree flared bars
nearly identical to the mk1 solaris isn’t it?
Pretty much why ai bought it actually. I sold a MK2 Solaris (and then regretted it), but had always thought it could make a good rigid, possibly with some wide flared drop bars. MK1 would have been better though.
Controversial, I’m going to say a gravel bike has to have a 40t+ chainring
Even more controversial, I'm going to say a gravel bike doesn't have to have a single ring.
Trying a set of the sonder bomber 45 degree flared bars
That looks at least a 90mm stem if not more. Have you tried a 70mm?
Found this photo from 2013. Think I had it like this for doing some sponsored charity rides. Think I did the 75 mile ride on it that year, and the following year, the 100 mile sponsored ride. For the 100 mile ride judging by photos I'd gone back to a triple chainset on the front, with the biggest ring at 48t. Some of the guys on road bikes commented on the speed I was going on it. It did fly at times 🙂
A gravel bike is one ridden on gravel – anything else is just marketing.
Not really. Is a road bike any bike ridden on the road, no it isn't. People may not like the term, the marketing, the trend etc,. but I can clearly see what a gravel bike is as a category of bike. Therefore a flat bar gravel bike is a gravel bike with flat bars and not drop bars - it is not a rigid MTB.
@kerley I can certainly see you point, but for gravel your logic is a little too reductive. The term gravel, the bikes marketed as gravel, and the terrain described as gravel: it's a very wide spectrum open to a fair amount of interpretation for terrain, categorisation, and bike type. Hence this thread has thrown up lots of interesting and vastly different bikes, which is a good thing. This wide range defies a rigid interpretation of simply a flat bar on a gravel marketed drop bar bike. I say that to defend the honour of rigid MTBs as brilliant tools for this category! 🙂
There's also a degree of spectrum fluidity to road and MTB, but that's another thing entirely!
EDIT: love the Kona and Gary Fisher!
I'm inclined to think that we've pretty much gone full circle and come back to hybrid bikes which have been doing 'gravel' all along (I'd be calling my Swift a hybrid except that 'gravel' seems to be the thing these days).
Ribble for example sell gravel bikes, of course, for road/gravel duties but they also sell a range of flat bar hybrids which they describe as for city roads & country trails.
I think the hybrid question is true to an extent, though it's never going to make a comeback as a marketing term! Also, they traditionally used to be road geometry bikes with a bit more clearance (like my old Raleigh pioneer!), and modern ones are in that vein but perhaps a bit more tweaks and innovation...something like the marin dsx is a good case in point of a really good evolution of that. But it's all just stuff on the broad spectrum with it's various choices and compromises...
The term gravel, the bikes marketed as gravel, and the terrain described as gravel: it’s a very wide spectrum open to a fair amount of interpretation for terrain, categorisation, and bike type
Nope, it is very clear what a gravel bike is. If you went into a bike shop that sold lots of different bikes and asked to see gravel bikes they would not take you to the MTB section, nor would they take you to the road section. They would show you what we know are gravel bikes and what are marketed as gravel bikes.
though it’s never going to make a comeback as a marketing term!
Very true.
We've had freeride, down country and gravel, so what are we calling 'new' hybrids?
Well Ribble still sell them as hybrids (for on/off road riding & adventure) although I get the feeling that 'hybrids' have a slightly more recreational feel to them whilst, perhaps, Gravel bikes are for more serious folk.
Ribble say:
WHAT ARE HYBRID BIKES?
A hybrid bike, in a nutshell sits somewhere in between a road bike and mountain bike. They take the flat handlebars and riding position of a mountain bike which riders find comfortable and intuitive and combine them with the lighter equipment of a road bike. This allows for greater speed for less effort especially when compared to an out and out MTB. To provide the comfort they have flat handlebars rather than the drop bikes that a true road bike road will be supplied with. The flat handlebars provide better comfort and added confidence which makes them a very popular choice for beginner riders. Similarly, to a mountain bike a hybrid bike can be fitted with a vast choice of tyres from slicks for tarmac use to knobbly tyres for off-road surfaces. With gearing low enough for off-road terrain, yet not detrimental to rides on paved surfaces the hybrid bike is a very capable all-rounder.
It's hardly definitive and I'm pretty sure that there was a manufacture some years ago (Boardman possibly) whose hybrid bikes were essentially flat bar road bikes.
Personally I always understood a hybrid to be a hardtail fitted with semi-slicks or slicks (like my Swift & a variety of hardtails that came before it). It probably doesn't matter about defining terms anyway, call it what you like & enjoy riding it.
though it’s never going to make a comeback as a marketing term!
Very true.
We've had freeride, down country and gravel, so what are we calling 'new' hybrids?
I’m guessing flat-bar gravel bikes ?
They would show you what we know are gravel bikes and what are marketed as gravel bikes.
or a touring bike. 700c wheels, Slack geometry, wide gearing, mounting points…
Pashley pathfinder, a revision of original racing bikes from the early 1900’s. That’s a gravel bike!
I reckon if you put flat bars on my gravel bike, it would look like a gravel bike with flat bars
Certainly not a HT MTB and not totally like how I’d perceive a hybrid to look
I'd agree, but what if you put a flat bar on a Cotic Cascade with 2.0" or wider semi-slicks?
I think it's probably a fool's errand trying to tie everything down, there are too many types or bikes and too much cross over. Just ride what suits you.
I'm not sure Gravel is even a discipline anymore, it's a much wider range of riding than it once was, it's more of a main category (like mountain bike).
Nope, it is very clear what a gravel bike is. If you went into a bike shop that sold lots of different bikes and asked to see gravel bikes they would not take you to the MTB section, nor would they take you to the road section. They would show you what we know are gravel bikes and what are marketed as gravel bikes.
I know what you're getting at but there is still a wide variation. It covers everything from a bit more than an endurance road bike for a more racing bias to the longer slacker more MTB influenced bikes that are for more robust riding and then the longer ride bike packer/tourer bias. These are all distinctly gravel bikes even with something other than drop bars on them.
Just like if you are in the road bike area you would have full aero, lightweight climbing and endurance bikes.
According to the UCI, a gravel bike is any bike heavier than 6.8 kilos and that is not “E-bikes, time trial bikes, recumbents and tandems”and has drop handlebars. The qualifying events allow mountain bikes since the drop bar requirement is not included. I’ve not seen any other definition.
hence your flat bar gravel bike is a UCI-hybrid. HTH
Are discussions like this a sign that Western society has reached new heights of sophistication or is it a warning that the end is nigh?