[Closed] should you be required to carry safety equipment on mamats? (man made trails)

Na, just leave 'natural selection' to work it's magic 😉

Darwin applies,

In answer to the question, no. Carry what you like, if only because everyone's idea of a basic kit is different. I can't gety head round why some riders have to take huge camelbaks with them.

Mind you seeing the number of riders who have to fiddle at the beginning of a ride because that don't bother checking the night before might be why.

IMO, you should try to be self sufficient. Even on a short visit to a trail centre etc.

I always take my camelback and it always has a tube, pump, multitool, money, food/water, basic first aid. Don't see the point in not taking it really. Sod's law says that if I left it at home then I'd need it anyway!

Should there be highly visual information regarding what to carry before riders find themselves away from help and in trouble?

Nope. You've got to work on the premise that adults are responsible for making these decisions.

Plus if you go down that path you will end up with a ridiculously long list of things on the info sign, as if you leave anything off the list you're implicitly saying it's not required.

In answer to your question, no.

Do you queue at the start of the trails to have your kit inspected, could you imagine it! Trail centres are pretty sanitised anyway and you're never too far from help even if something unusual breaks beyond an informed persons usual "safety equipment".

For goodness sakes, people will be giving trail centres acronyms next... 🙄

I don't take tubes, tools, first aid to trail centres, what's the point, you can always run/walk out. If I didn't take something I needed, I would ask others to help me out.

Broke my wrist at one a couple of years back, I got myself in to that situation so my responsibility to get myself out, so just rode and pushed back to the car.

The other week I went out in the Dales by myself, about 25 miles from my car, and pretty remote, so took a tube and emergency bivvy bag.

anybody using the acronym mamat should always....repeat always ... carry safety equipment

I don't take tubes, tools, first aid to trail centres, what's the point, you can always run/walk out. If I didn't take something I needed, I would ask others to help me out.

Sorry typing error on phone I WOULDN'T ask others to help.

I usually have all my gubbins for leading in my rucksack, so I always look like I'm moving house 🙂
It's good training having that on your back lol. However I am liking the liberation of saddlebag with a tube and bits and a water bottle these days.

All trails are man-made by definition, aren't they?

Except SHET (sheep trails) and DERT (deer trails). All good but you need to carry a tool to extract stones from your cleats... 8)

4 miles? In midsummer. What were they thinking.

I think rule #83 crosses over into MTB for this purpose.

I don't take tubes, tools, first aid to trail centres, what's the point, you can always run/walk out. If I didn't take something I needed, I would ask others to help me out.

Point is to continue to enjoy the ride you have presumably traveled to after making the time available to do so. With a young family and very demanding job, the opportunity for a spare morning and / or afternoon to dedicate entirely to riding does not come around very often. I'd hate to bail a much anticipated ride because I didn't take a few spares. Likewise I'd be less than chuffed if I wasted time helping someone who couldn't be arsed to take the basics. Helping someone in genuine need is a totally different matter.

What about BADMADETs (badger made trails)? they's the most awzumest

I do not think anyone should be 'required' or forced into carrying anything. What is the worst that could happen there? (a walk home in the cold).
Now that is very different from taking responsibility and having gear.

I blame the UCI!

Seriously, in the past, mountain biking was recognised as a discipline where you were supposed to be self sufficient - when they changed that, then you knew that we were doomed to a future of scalextric track trail centres. we're all roadies now donchaknow!

Bring back OS maps!

(point of interest, I've worked support on road sportives in the UK, where people turn up without a pump or tube for a 100 mile ride - thats a killer of a walk back in roadie shoes!

Seriously, in the past, mountain biking was recognised as a discipline where you were supposed to be self sufficient - when they changed that, then you knew that we were doomed to a future of scalextric track trail centres

When did they change 'that'? I didn't het the memo.

Come to think of it I never seen the memo to say mountain biking had been recognised as discipline to be self sufficient.

op, where?

is was swinley wasnt it? on the green?

(point of interest, I've worked support on road sportives in the UK, where people turn up without a pump or tube for a 100 mile ride - thats a killer of a walk back in roadie shoes!

I thought that was part of the entry fee...

Drac:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2004/09/news/tech-talk-ucis-new-outside-assistance-rule-is-counter-to-spirit-of-mountain-biking_6962

Anyone issuing that acronym should be bludgeoned to death with the track pump that they will be forced to carry.

That's great ninfan but I don't use the UCI when I got our for a ride so can't see how that effects anything at all.

Drac, thats like saying that the TDF doesn't influence the mindset of road cyclists

(looks out window at bunch of MAMIL's in sky kit riding carbon road wheels with 23mm tubs and not a single one of them carrying a spare)

lol at Ninfan's link, what goes on in WC XC racing has very little bearing on what goes on around UK trails. It's gets bugger all coverage on TV and not much press coverage if you don't go hunting it out.

It's more that more and more people are buying bikes (C2W anyone) with no idea of how they work. I see people taking a bike to a shop to get a tube changed or a new tyre fitted.

However I do reckon the UCI are responsible for global warming, harsh winters and the amount of dog eggs in parks.

Drac, thats like saying that the TDF doesn't influence the mindset of road cyclists

Ermmm! No it's not at all. You're now talking about the world's most popular cycling race not a governing body effecting people popping out for a Sunday jaunt on their bike, a massive difference.

If I'm riding fairly late or in bad weather, I take a survival blanket in the camelbak. I think the phrase "you can always walk out" is a misnomer, because if it goes really bad, you can't.

Tsk, trail centres, eh ?

I don't ride trail centres. Or carry any tools, as all my routes are carefully planned, so that at no point am I more than half a mile away from a pub. In case of emergencies. I have been known to slash my own tyres on a sunny day, to justify bailing out and spending the afternoon in the beer garden, before giving the missus a bell to come and pick me up

binners - Member
...all my routes are carefully planned, so that at no point am I more than half a mile away from a pub...

binners has it in an emergency improvise on kit but always have a plan and work the plan™

OK, morality check... I've never usually got a problem giving away tubes to people in need, but sometimes, when it's someone out on an expensive flash bike with all the kit, I do think "Nah, **** you, you're an idiot, you're not getting my tube" Is that wrong?

Yesterday I was stopped at the side of the track fixing a flat, a feller on a Glory came down with no pack or anything, pushing as he had a flat. "Have you got a spare". You know what? I'd been carrying my kit all race while he was getting the benefit of riding light, no way was he getting any help off me. In the event, I only had 1 anyway so I didn't have to make the call. Again, right or wrong?

ninfan - Member

Seriously, in the past, mountain biking was recognised as a discipline where you were supposed to be self sufficient - when they changed that, then you knew that we were doomed to a future of scalextric track trail centres.

South Park
"Who are "they"?"
"You know, "they"
"They're bastards!"

The mysterious They who psionically implanted in everyone's heads the idea that they didn't need to be self-sufficient, are presumably the same They that ripped up all the natural/non-purpose-built trails and force everyone to only ride trail centres, aye?

If its a puncture I think the minimum is that you can fix it at the road side, that is a repair kit or a spare tube. If its mechanical maybe a different matter. I take everything on most rides, multitool, space blanket(you never know what you come across).

If someone doesn't even have the basics depends, I would probably help but advise them too get some spares.

Saying that I had a disaster the other week. Tried 700x28 and got a snake bite first day that I couldn't fix and snapped the valve on my spare tube. Had to ring Doris while I sat and had a pint, unfortunately it happened right outside the pub. Next day same route and another puncture but had used my spare so had t walk a mile or s to a place Doris could rescue me as I had used my spare tube and was really not in the mood.

Anyone want to buy some 700x28 Conti 4 seasons.

I believe the correct procedure for this sort of situation is the "Ned Beatty Treatment".

I always ride with tools but then again i met my riding mates on STW 😉

I think I would probably stop and help but lecture them all the way through fixing it so they never want to experience "help" like that again- thinking more the puncture thing than lost.

Northwind i once met a commuter who I had seen many times on my commute [ went in opposite directions] who had two punctures and no tools and though I was an arse for not giving him mine - I was about 10 miles from home. I offered to sell them as i could have gone home via Merlin [ about 2 miles away] and the thought i was taking the piss..he literally wanted my tubes for nothing..I would have taken payment the next day/whenever.

He still scowls at me but he has a seat pack now

I think someone wanting your tube for nowt is an arse. They aren't magic bits that appear in your kit. I buy a load in so I always have stock. I always carry 2 tubes (if both go your having a bad day!), if they can't be bothered to sort their own admin out, sod them 😀

Can't see the point in not carrying a tube , patch kit pump
Takes up so little space.

Bike, check.
Natty racing shoes, check.
Rapha top, check.
Oakleys, check.
Strava, check.

Lickle wee tube and Co2, not very pro tour peloton is it.

When my club started i was dishing out tubes left right and centre, my pump became known as the 'Club pump' One bloke even threw his punctured tube into the woods, the big C. Only one fella ever returned a new tube. Went back to Co2 and never help anyone anymore.
That said today I gave a stranger all my food and water as he was struggling and I was only ten miles from home.

acronyms' ahoy!

I normally ride with a camelback mule, 2/3 full of water, multitool, tyre levers, patches, 1 tube, leatherman, pump, lightweight jacket (if it's not raining when we start) and a small 1st aid kit. May seem overkill, but after a few k's you don't know it's there.

Had my derailleur hanger snap in forest of dean after taking a dodgy shortcut and a stick getting caught in spokes, managed to get it all apart with the help of the leatherman, wouldn't have otherwise, so I had somewhere to store the derailleur & chain & could coast back to the shop for a new hanger. Would have been a shit day otherwise!

I carry a spare mech hanger 8)

I carry:
2 tubes
1 pump
1 shockpump
3 prs gloves
1 gilet
1 waterproof
2 hats
2 buffs
multi tool
swiss army knife
lube
zip ties
canister of spares
2 spr brake pad sets
1st aid kit
3l water
gps
energy gels
headtorch
pen
camera and headcam

but i am at work!

Pump, puncture stuff/spare tube, allen keys, etc are not safety equipment, just the basics to keep your bike going when the inevitable happens. Anyone that has cycled a few miles a few times knows this.

I carry:
2 tubes
1 pump
1 shockpump
3 prs gloves
1 gilet
1 waterproof
2 hats
2 buffs
multi tool
swiss army knife
lube
zip ties
canister of spares
2 spr brake pad sets
1st aid kit
3l water
gps
energy gels
headtorch
pen
camera and headcam

Fark me! Even for a week away I take less!

70 miles today, 2 tubes, patches, pump, multool, and 750ml of water (filled up again half way).

Offroad I might add a mech hanger, gear cable and brake pads.

In winter a gillet and arm warmers.

But how do you not fall over sideways with all that!

Never understood why people carry shockpumps.

mind you if you're carrying all that crap all the time, you may as well.

suspect bobbyspangles was taking the almighty pish. Unless his every ride is a vast tour into the unknown wilderness behind the Nationwide in Swindon.Or his job requires all that kit to look after noobs like in the op? What do you do BobbyS?

Always carry what I consider the basics -

Tube
Patches
Pump
Multi tool
Leatherman
Couple of zip ties
Small 1st aid kit

All live permanently in my hydration pack which I wear every ride out of habit (even if I don't put the bladder in it). Had too many long boring walks early on in my time MTBing to not want to be able to fix/bodge anything that goes wrong.

Would help out anyone without spares/tools, but would probably be thinking what a stupid ****er they were while doing so.

Kevevs - Member - Quote
suspect bobbyspangles was taking the almighty pish.

It's not a race, everyone else isn't there to help me.

I run ChaseSkills mtb coaching/guiding company. so the extra is alway sfor others as well as myself.
to be honest it is lovely to go for a local blast without anything at all! just me, my bike and a water bottle!

although the last time i managed this i ended up with 2 punctures.

On trail centre stuff i carry malt whisky in hipflask/bottle cage holder if that counts as safety equipment (medicinal?), i don't carry anything else but if i'm heading into the hills for an all day explore i may carry a teeny seatpack with a couple of co2 canisters, tubeless patch and mini tool.

Some peeps may want to carry the entire contents of their toolbox and spares kit so if it makes them feel equipped then hey-ho - crack on.

I always carry as follows:
2 tubes (even though I am tubeless)
Patches
Bike multitool and a gerber
Gear cable
Chain missing link
Cable ties

And when further a field
1st aid kit/foil blanket
Map/compass
Clothing, food as required.

May be overkill for some people, but my ride time is precious and I don't intend on walking most of it. I also normally have to pick my lad after a ride so timing is very important.
As such I factor extra time in my rides to cover breakdowns/ getting lost. I would rather carry kit than factor in / have to do a 10 mile walk.
Each to their own though.

Yesterday I was stopped at the side of the track fixing a flat, a feller on a Glory came down with no pack or anything, pushing as he had a flat. "Have you got a spare". You know what? I'd been carrying my kit all race while he was getting the benefit of riding light, no way was he getting any help off me. In the event, I only had 1 anyway so I didn't have to make the call. Again, right or wrong?

How dare they, It should be in the[s] golf[/s] club rules to be more responsible.

Oh.. wait! silly me, you were only "eventing" not "racing" weren't you?

Can't work out if you're joking or sommat, but you sound like a right tosser. 😕

I don't carry the kitchen sink, will help others I come across, but I'm not giving them my only tube.

And anyone who uses the term "mamats" really needs to be beaten to death with the contents of their ridiculously overfilled Camelbak.

Bike tools aren't safety equipment. You aren't going to die at a trail centre if your chain snaps or your tyre goes flat.

Quite a few people at my local trail center don't seem to bother with lids, which always strikes me as being a bit selfish.

Thread just reminded me of when Ewan and Charlie first went adventuring on their BMW GS's. They carried a complete toolkit - EACH. And a tent - EACH.

Silly boys. But anyway, what's a UCI? A type of pump?

persona - Member

Wrong! You should have ridden down on your flat tyre and repaired it in the gondola so as to lose far less places.

Nah, if you flat higher up it's prety much time neutral, but you risk damaging the wheel. One thing to ride out the motorway, lower woods etc but another to batter it off all the rocks.

I set off on a club run yesterday and forgot my pump,not a problem,plenty of others had one.
Then I decided to head back early on my own.
If I had got a flat ,it would have been a long annoying walk/faff to get home. You only have to get caught out once to learn that lesson.
I don't really want my cycling spoiled ,just because I forgot/didn't take some kit. 🙂

Why all the replies? The question was answered by the first response.

bobbyspangles - Member
I carry:
2 tubes
1 pump
1 shockpump
3 prs gloves
1 gilet
1 waterproof
2 hats
2 buffs
multi tool
swiss army knife
lube
zip ties
canister of spares
2 spr brake pad sets
1st aid kit
3l water
gps
energy gels
headtorch
pen
camera and headcam

You are Dale Laywood and I claim my £5.

For the hard of understanding/quick to attack 🙄 Yes, I was joking.

I always carry:

10 tubes
3 chains
Foot pump
track pump
mini pump
arm pump
chain tool
chain whip
cassette tool
marmalade sandwiches
pruning shears
toe nail clippers
barn owl
fret saw
bench grinder
cheese knife
pair of compasses
wallpaper steamer
salad spinner
eye gouger
faberge egg
chameleon
false teeth
real teeth
counter sink
kitchen sink
trevor francis track suits from a mush in shepherds bush

forgot me tyre levers yesterday though.

[i]Had too many long boring walks early on in my time MTBing to not want to be able to fix/bodge anything that goes wrong.[/i]

This.

I generally take sufficient tools and spares to cover my own needs.

couple of tubes, patches and a pump, plus split links and multi-tools, I try to strike a sensible balance between being self sufficient and carrying the kitchen sink.

If I encounter someone who's not planed ahead and is in trouble, I offer a spare tube or a patch and the use of my tools/pump and some friendly help as required... General common decency to help out a fellow human being in distress innit?

I've helped strangers like this a couple of times and there's no point crowing or telling them "what they should have bought along" they've just learned the lesson and you can guarantee they'll always b the one to carry a spare tube/pump/multitool in future...

TBH telling them off for failing to plan and being a grudging dick about sharing a tube and some tools only serves to put beginers off the sport. I'd rather they learned a useful lesson and went away believing that MTBing is a sport/activity full of friendly helpful people so they stay involved... but that's just me...

Edit-

Also I've never heard the term "MAMAT" where does this (****y sounding) term come from? MBR?

out of curiosity, my tyres are now tubeless.

thanks to luck/tubeless, i haven't had a puncture in about a year.

to minimise faff, i only carry 1 tube, and it's a 28er (yes).

back in the good old days i'd hand out tubes to any poor soul who needed them. (i carried 2, so i didn't snooker myself)

but now, even if my 28" tube fitted their bike, i'd be reluctant to hand over my tube - sod's law dictates THAT would be the ride where my tubeless experiment failed.

interesting... a combination of tubeless, and wagon-wheels, has turned me into a git.

FFS, who cares !

If you get a puncture and you have no spares you walk or ride on the rim !
Any one would think that all the posts above were referring to outback riding where there are no means of gaining mobile phone coverage or there's no fresh running water !

"I'm off out on my bike dear I may be some time"
- Have you got your spare cleats, spark plug wrench, blow torch & bear gun ?
"Yes dear I have all those things, my camelback is 2/3rds full and if I drink it before the moon is in its 3rd phase I will surely die ! So I will return before the six 'O' clock news so you don't have to look for the life insurance policy under all the shit I have aquired in case something might happen to me"

Returning solo on a club ride with no pump is hardly a life changing lesson, if it is then you need to stay indoors more,

WTF is a MAMATS ?

And why is every one carrying Zip ties ? Wht are they going to do ?

out of curiosity, my tyres are now tubeless.

thanks to luck/tubeless, i haven't had a puncture in about a year.

to minimise faff, i only carry 1 tube, and it's a 28er (yes).

back in the good old days i'd hand out tubes to any poor soul who needed them. (i carried 2, so i didn't snooker myself)

but now, even if my 28" tube fitted their bike, i'd be reluctant to hand over my tube - sod's law dictates THAT would be the ride where my tubeless experiment failed.

interesting... a combination of tubeless, and wagon-wheels, has turned me into a git.

Also Tubeless here and like you largely without incident for quite some time (touch wood).

I still carry two tubes (26") and some Park glueless patches, my logic being, that if one UST tyre goes, the other is still potentially the subject a separate failure, and tubes are still the best get home option, hence I carry two tubes, I also carry the patches as an extra, extra backup just in case having had to fit both tubes I then pick up a hole in one..

The patches weigh barely anything and are simple enough to use, TBH though I've not had to resort to using them since going tubeless and only had to use one tube to re-inflate a holed tubeless tyre.
But think about it, what's the worst thing that could possibly happen on a ride?

Say you run over something big and pointy enough to hole the front tyre, who's to say it won't catch the rear too? - Ride over without a means of repairing both.
Or you get a front flat 10 miles in fix it with your one tube, only to get an un-fixable rear flat 20 miles into a 30 mile ride, you're ride is knackered all for the want of a couple of hundred grams of Butyl...

It's a bit like playing rock, paper, sciscors I know but how else can you mitigate something as random as flat tyres?

Of course as soon as I hand over a spare tube to a stranger in need I potentially open myself up to a similar fate too, maybe I should carry three or four tubes, just to be on the safe side 😉

And why is every one carrying Zip ties ? Wht are they going to do ?

Hold stuff together?

I smashed a front mech once and use a ziptie to hold it over the middle ring to avoid having to ride the next 10 miles in the granny.

I take the things that weight very little but may need replacing ,,pads , spare links, mech hanger, spare gear cable all weight next to nothing to carry
multitool pump and 2 tubes.
Emergency blanket and cheap plastic bivvy bag and whistle if proper remote/winter- oddly enough i carry more safety stuff walking than riding though I have yet to really injure myself walking but have a few times riding

Would not like to find myself immoble in thin clothes waiting a few hours for rescue but each to their own

Cable ties weigh nothing, so chucking a couple in does no harm

Aye, likewise spare pads, mech hanger, powerlink, all basically irrelevant weightwise and very small so not much reason not to.

Ok now I can fess up to carrying foil blanket, orange bivvi and a whistle,

Aye, likewise spare pads, mech hanger, powerlink, all basically irrelevant weightwise and very small so not much reason not to.

Nope, was it inadvertantly funny? The mud on my camelbak probably weighs more than that stuff inside it.

Say you run over something big and pointy enough to hole the front tyre, who's to say it won't catch the rear too?

as seen before possibly too many times but i think other photos or vids of big pointy things at trail centres would be good

How many of the people who carry nothing with them have borrowed spares from a friend or stranger when they've had a mechanical?

Now you are joking, aren't you?

If you want to go riding armed only with your wits then please dont let me stop you

Re zip ties I zip tied a rear jockey wheel in place when the bolt was lost

I also zipped tied a wooden wedge when my rear shock bolt snapped

tha time i did the next big drop to see if it worked ..WTF Was I thinking off 🙄

i take my camelbak whenever on MTB, either wilderness or trail centre of somewhere in between. Standard contents are :

2 tubes, multitool, leathernman, pair of brake pads, couple of zip ties, black tape, spare mech hanger. Also mini pump and fork pump, tick tiwsters and some wetwipes.

If I have the kids with me I drop in a small first aid kit. For big days in the hills a warmer top and some food.

I'd add that it's up to individuals what they carry, but on our club rides we'll help out others who don't bring stuff....the first time....thereafter they will be subjected to ridicule and embarrassment 🙂

I've had a few occasions of someone begging a tube off me

I now keep a puncture repair kit (I blagged a few off somewhere ages ago) in my bag for such 'giveways'