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I think trying to claim back the e-bike name for pedal assist electric bikes is a lost cause. Electric motorbikes are becoming more numerous, increasing referred to as 'e-bikes' in the media and often associated with antisocial or criminal behaviour.
What alternative names are there? Pedelec? EPAC?
Serious question... Do we need to?
Is it the bike industry's fault that the general public choose to be wilfully ignorant about the differences? Should we also call Football "soccer" just because the Americans decided it needed a different name because they decided to confuse the issue by calling their own distinctly different game Football too...?
The media have some explaining to do for sure, but that's literally always the case...
I don’t know how to tell you this, but soccer is an English term. It was coined to distinguish association football from rugby football. You can’t blame everything on the Americans!
Wheres the fun in that LAT?
How about "legal e-bike"? Might help clarify that what the scrotes are up to is already illegal so we don't need new laws
How about
Laz-e-bike for anyone over 25
And
Scroterocket for anyone under 25
Semi-acoustic bike?
It's an audience context thing isn't it? If you use 'e-bike' on here, everyone knows what you mean, in the wider world, language kind of roams free and non-specialist media, like it or not, are at least partly feral and beyond our control, particularly in what seems to be a post-subbing media ecosystem.
I guess it also depends a little on who you're referring to when you say 'we'. I also think the reputational 'damage' has already been done and undoing it would take a concerted effort, but it's hard to know who'd be able to do that.
Apologies for being a bit dull in my response, but I think the media are getting better at reporting on e-bikes vs. Surrons and the like.
My experience is that it takes a while for people in newsrooms to learn to question the terminology used on a police press release, but after a while they become aware of these pitfalls. Like using Hoover generically.
That's not to say it might not help for C-UK to ask ACPO or whoever to send a memo to all the press offices.
I'm getting adverts for illegal scrotemobiles in this thread.
Surely moped.
I don't think you can complain if someone calls an electric motorbike an e-bike. It's an obvious contraction of the name. Therefore clinging onto e-bike to only describe a pedal assist electric bike seems fruitless.
E-by-gum bike if it's being used in t'Yorkshire ?
How about Battery bikes or Batbikes.*
Housed in batcaves and used by people that wear capes and tights.
* this is a 'just back from the pub' answer,so please judge accordingly 🙃
Doesn't batman wear a hood ?
Just become a Surron rider you will fit right in.
If any term is settled on, I suspect that, over time, it'll just end up being applied to the whole gambit of e-bikes again, legal or otherwise.
I think that I'd rather try and claim back the term "Cyclist" to refer to people who actually cycle rather than those who zoom about on e-motorbikes. I think that a lot of the "killer/dangerous cyclists" panic that's going on at the moment is really about e-motorbike riders being referred to as cyclists.
If any term is settled on, I suspect that, over time, it'll just end up being applied to the whole gambit of e-bikes again, legal or otherwise.
I'm not sure how say, Pedelec could come to describe an electric motorbike. Also if something like a Surron was described as a Pedelec then it would be easy to point out it's not. However, saying it's not an e-bike seems a bit daft
(I'm not that keen on the Pedelec name myself, but it is a better description in my view)
Motorcycles are referred to 'bikes' pedal cycles are also referred to as 'bikes'
Therefore E-bikes can be either E-motorbikes, or E-pedalcycles
Its just a generic term.
Maybe it is only a minority, but it seems there are people who believe 'e-bike' should only apply to pedal assisted electric bikes. E.g. complaining that the news media have got it wrong when an electric motorbike involved in criminal activities/anti-social behaviour/an accident is referred to as an 'e-bike'. Both pedal assisted electric bikes and electric motorbikes are e-bikes.
I just wondered if we could help those people and those who use pedal assisted electric bikes in general by not referring to them as 'e-bikes'.
I think we need to rename cars.
They quite clearly aren't motor carriages but the media...
I just wondered if we could help those people and those who use pedal assisted electric bikes in general by not referring to them as 'e-bikes'.
Who is 'we' in this case? Do you mean the industry? The specialist mountain bike / cycling media? People on this forum? I think the 'problem' - if you perceive it as being one - is that the whole media eco-system these days is so vast and unregulated that even if you corrected the mainstream outlets - BBC, Grauniad, Sky or whatever - I think maybe that horse has bolted.
I think the reality is that while the terminology may be confusing, most reasonably sane people can tell, with their own eyes, the difference between a hooded, masked oik on a Sur Ron - or whatever they're called - and an overweight middle-aged man on a Levo, Rise or whatever. Yes, it's slightly irksome, but does it have a major negative impact on e-mtbers?
Maybe it does and I'm missing something, but it strikes me as being a bit like the thing where off-road motorcyclists get het up about the differences between trials bikes, trail bikes, moto-crossers, enduro bikes and weird super moto things. It's irritating if you're a specialist, but doesn't really make much difference beyond that.
Am I missing something?
E-by-gum bike if it's being used in t'Yorkshire ?
How do you know if a Yorkshireman is cheating on STRAVA?
You can hear the E-Bike Hum.
Very good, Diggery. Ten points to Hufflepuff!
To answer your question the original question, time to reclaim/redefine the word “moped”, It’s got a MOtor and you PEDal it.
Do you mean the industry? The specialist mountain bike / cycling media? People on this forum?
Yes, yes and yes. Because as you rightly point out the horse has bolted for "correcting" the media.
Maybe it is only a minority, but it seems there are people who believe 'e-bike' should only apply to pedal assisted electric bikes. E.g. complaining that the news media have got it wrong when an electric motorbike involved in criminal activities/anti-social behaviour/an accident is referred to as an 'e-bike'.
These people have too much time on their hands (and I say that as a basement-dwelling pedant myself). They're exactly like the bores that complain about automatic rifles being described as assault rifles or whatever...
The amount of abuse us ebikers get is already pretty bad. People calling us "fat", "lazy" or "unfit". It's just ridiculous. I held the gate for someone the other day and he said "Thank you BATTERY BOY" and then laughed as he rode off, which is tanter-mount to bullying if you ask me. I think it should be classified as a hate crime.
I held the gate for someone the other day and he said "Thank you BATTERY BOY" and then laughed as he rode off, which is tanter-mount to bullying if you ask me
Just take consolation that you were probably having way more fun than he was and that his jibe just reflected his own fears and insecurities.
I am still not sure what the issue is?
I am still not sure what the issue is?
You need to stay in more.
Wider public perception and lumping together of illegal electric motorbikes and legal pedal assist electric bikes in the public populist mindset.
Is that a thing? Like an actual issue?
Most people seems to understand some wallopers in cars doesn't make everyone else in a car a walloper?
There is the odd miserable bastard who tars everyone with the wrong same brush but who give a shit about them?
Scroterocket for anyone under 25
I'm going to be using "Scroterocket" from now on.
I think we've covered this before and honestly, the argument was already lost long ago; the Sun, DM nor the Beeb care a jot about differentiation or detail on this topic. Most ordinary people who are not already interested in bicycles could barely give a toss...
What does it really matter anyway? Lots of people already hate "bike riders" they really don't care if they're propelled entirely or partially by leccy, if you're doing all the work yourself they're still not really interested...
Who precisely do you think is going to be won over by pedantry?
I am still not sure what the issue is?
One brings KFC to your door, the other one delivers Ketamine...
I think trying to claim back the e-bike name for pedal assist electric bikes is a lost cause.
Well, if calling it an electric bike is out, then the other descriptor you've highlighted is "assisted". Calling one an "a bike" would obviously be confusing, so perhaps an ass-bike?
Who precisely do you think is going to be won over by pedantry?
I'm advocating giving up on the pedantry from the pedal bike side. It does seem for every mainstream story or post that gets it "wrong" there are plenty of people saying "that's not an e-bike. E-bikes are limited to 15.5 mph blah, blah".
Calling one an "a bike" would obviously be confusing, so perhaps an ass-bike?
I think I prefer ass-bike to pedelec 😄
I held the gate for someone the other day and he said "Thank you BATTERY BOY" and then laughed
🤣🤣🤣
I think I prefer ass-bike to pedelec 😄
Now I'm really considering adopting it in response to people who insist on calling bikes "acoustic" or "analogue".
What about bicycle for human powered bikes and assisted bicycle for bicycles with electric assistance.
But with surrons dodgy conversions, wheels, powered skate boards and powered scooters, things are completely out of control and it's difficult to see how you put the genie back in the bottle.
'Ow can yer tell something about Yorkshire int writ by a Yorkshireman?
I'm advocating giving up on the pedantry from the pedal bike side.
Are you? From the OP onwards you seem determined to find new terminology to use
What alternative names are there? Pedelec? EPAC?
It's all just different flavours of pedantry to chuck at people who fundamentally do not care. A two wheeled thing with any sort of leccy motor attached is an 'E-Bike' now to 96.78% of Jumanity. Start talking about 'EPACs', 'Pedelecs' or 'ass bikes' and you'll still get blank looks back.
I know it's frustrating, but it really doesn't matter, the general public get lots of things wrong all the time and simply don't worry about it. You'll waste far too much of your own energy trying to correct this sort of irrelevance if you're not careful...
Now I'm really considering adopting it in response to people who insist on calling bikes "acoustic" or "analogue".
There are definitely words that describe those people but they won't get through the STW filters.
The word for a bike with pedals and a motor is a moped right?
I don't have a problem with e-bike per se, the ambiguity comes from the media's failure to differentiate between legal & illegal (and sometimes the difference between the two is just a software hack).
If a car is involved in an accident you assume that it was legally driven, licensed, insured etc. but would expect to be told otherwise if this was the case.
With "ebike" reports I think that the public perception is that it's a legal, cyclist ridden bike in the same way; most likely it's not.
For me the key is to get the media to report properly (responsibly). Legal-ebike & illegal-ebike (or simply legally/illegally ridden ridden) would probably work for me if it was applied consistently and properly and if the media took the time to clarify their facts before jumping in.
@cookeaa pedantry is being overly concerned with minor details. In this case I see it as vain attempts by others to "correct" the use of the e-bike term. I'm advocating not using 'e-bike' within the cycling community, and I'm not suggesting a singular replacement (which would probably also create other pedantry).
Might appear that I'm being a pedant about other pendants, but actually I couldn't care what is used. I just think using the e-bike descriptor isn't a great idea
I take your point though, we could stop using e-bike but then how to we get the new terms adopted into wider use. I doubt we're going to see headlines like "Pedestrian knocked down by ass-bike".... probably would still see "Pedestrian bulldozed by cyclist".... or if it is an illegal electric motorbike then "Pedestrian run down by e-bike".
How about "e-steed" or "e-poon"?
If a car is involved in an accident you assume that it was legally driven, licensed, insured etc. but would expect to be told otherwise if this was the case.
"accident"? ACCIDENT?!?! You monster!
Rather than try to rename e-bikes - as in electrically-assisted pedal bikes - it would arguably make more sense to press for a more accurate description of electric motorbikes. Anecdotally they're often referred to generically as Sur-Rons in the same way that vacuum cleaners all get called 'Hoovers'. If nothing else, it suggests that even if the police and media seem confused, actual people know exactly what they are.
I think it's lost too.
Ebikes now include Surrons in the court of popular opinion, and I don't want us in that category, so I think given their popularity ebikes maybe should just be bikes/cycles again. Ebikes have far more in common with the latter than the former, and I'd rather distance us from electric motorbikes.
The general public don't understand, or want to understand, the differences.
I think it's lost too.
Ebikes now include Surrons in the court of popular opinion, and I don't want us in that category, so I think given their popularity ebikes maybe should just be bikes/cycles again. Ebikes have far more in common with the latter than the former
Not really though. ebikes are substantially different to bikes. If you're looking for "most in common", then probably a moped.
We’re doomed.
no matter what they are called.
the genie IS out of the bottle and the Police don’t seem to have the resources or the will to stop the electrically powered “silent” modified (Demerol/ Just Eat/ Uber eats) bicycles with throttles (or scooters or those crazy single wheel things) speeding along the route add and even the pavement - or even the ninja masked Sur Ron nutcases. It’s rife in Brighton.
actually they can’t even stop the loonies in the woods on MX bikes.
When the forests get closed to “bikes” due to electric motorbike accidents we’ll be buggered.
While we're writing about poor enforcement of non-legal ebikes as far as UK law stands, it's absolutely nuts that only hire electric scooters are legal on the road for those who have a UK driving license iirc because they come with insurance, while Halfords and many other UK stores have been selling electric scooters for years.
When the forests get closed to “bikes” due to electric motorbike accidents we’ll be buggered.
Which is why many people were against ebikes [as originally legally designated] in the first place. Don't quack up a good thing.
I think it's lost too.
Ebikes now include Surrons in the court of popular opinion, and I don't want us in that category, so I think given their popularity ebikes maybe should just be bikes/cycles again. Ebikes have far more in common with the latter than the former
Not really though. ebikes are substantially different to bikes. If you're looking for "most in common", then probably a moped.
I'll politely disagree.
Actually, this is a daft argument. If I put a Bronson, Heckler SL and any number of street ready or offroad mopeds in a line up I think I know which you would say are the most similar.
I'm also pretty sure I'd rather the public put electric mopeds, Surron types and illegal electric motorbikes in one category of 'ebikes', and leave us on mountain bikes alone, whether there's a little motor on there or not. Our bikes having the label ebikes isn't doing us any favours, as we've seen in countless headlines now.
Well I'm happy to see all the e bikes lumped together, I think it represents the overall vibe of the newer powered transport options.
They definitely aren't cycles or mountain bikes.
WALL-E bikes could work, after the film.
I think it's lost too.
Ebikes now include Surrons in the court of popular opinion, and I don't want us in that category, so I think given their popularity ebikes maybe should just be bikes/cycles again. Ebikes have far more in common with the latter than the former
Not really though. ebikes are substantially different to bikes. If you're looking for "most in common", then probably a moped.
I'll politely disagree.
Actually, this is a daft argument. If I put a Bronson, Heckler SL and any number of street ready or offroad mopeds in a line up I think I know which you would say are the most similar.
Mopeds, not scooters.
It's not what looks the most similar, it's about most similar in type. Can be both human and machine propelled.
Isn't it ironic that e-bikers are worried about being sullied by association with e-motorbikes, and so want to pollute the bike nomenclature?
I don’t know why we can’t just say (legal) e-bikes and illegal e-bikes, the latter being the source of the vast majority of problems, be it going too fast, destroying trails with excessive power, transport for drug dealers etc or prone to catching fire.
I ride both assisted and non assisted bikes all the time and find the dinosaurs crying about "cheating" or "being fat" hilarious. Its like they don't understand that its OK for some things to simply be more fun.
I ride both assisted and non assisted bikes all the time and find the dinosaurs crying about "cheating" or "being fat" hilarious. Its like they don't understand that its OK for some things to simply be more fun.
Noone has said that here.
As far as i am concerned it is cheating.
I also am of the opinion more than one gear is cheating.
I don't particularly care if you don't like it. But i also don't particularly care if you cheat.
But then i am the kind of sicko who finds my own efforts way more fun even if i am lying on the ground desperately trying not to hurl.
I don't know how you got "cheating" or "fat" from that.
Have you not seen WallE? Think its more aimed at the fat bit.
I don't know how you got "cheating" or "fat" from that.
Have you not seen WallE? Think its more aimed at the fat bit.
As far as i am concerned it is cheating
Valid
But i also don't particularly care if you cheat.
And this is key.
I'm aware i'm slightly derailing the thread here. I agree it makes the effort aspect way easier and thus can be viewed as cheating. The weird thing is why those not on them always seem to get so bent out of shape by those that are.
I'm aware i'm slightly derailing the thread here. I agree it makes the effort aspect way easier and thus can be viewed as cheating. The weird thing is why those not on them always seem to get so bent out of shape by those that are.
The weird thing is that it doesn't seem like it's those not them who are bent out of shape...
The weird thing is that it doesn't seem like it's those not them who are bent out of shape...
Well as you've already proved your deficiencies in reading and comprehension...
I could not give a stuff what you ride, provided you ride with respect for other people and the environment.
Dood, WALL-E is about far more important things than a few fatties caught in the aftermath.
I don't see eeb's as cheating, I just see it as a different way to get around. For me E bikes as a category includes legal and illegal electric bikes, the laws seem unenforceable so until that changes they are as one. Different is totally okay but don't be an e-bike snob, embrace your bed fellows 🫶
I ride both assisted and non assisted bikes all the time and find the dinosaurs crying about "cheating" or "being fat" hilarious. Its like they don't understand that its OK for some things to simply be more fun.
Loving the thoughtful use of 'dinosaurs', yay for mutual tolerance. Anyway, as a sort of occasional accidental e-mtber - think recuperation tool - I don't really give a stuff about whether e-mtbers are fat or lazy or having 'fun', which always makes me think of whooping morons, but that's just personal prejudice. I don't care whether the media can't tell the difference between e-motorbikes and e-mountain bikes, because hey, it has absolutely no impact on me either way.
The thing that gets to me is the motor noise. It's like a weird trail tinnitus. You sort of get used to it, but it's always there in the background, even with quiet motors at low levels of assistance ime, even worse when you get gangs of e-mtbers charging around in boost/turbo (whooping because of all the fun, obviously;-) ).
Maybe it makes me some sort of weird outlier, but one of the things I love about getting outdoors, on bikes or on foot, is the sense of peace and quietness, being able to get away from traffic noise in particular, so it always feels a bit wrong when you bring your own noise with you. I don't want to ban e-mtbs or anything like that, I just find the noise intrusive. We pay so little attention to noise pollution, but it's a damaging, ever-present part of our environment and needs reducing not adding to. One of the few good things about lockdown was the general sense of peace: no planes, massively reduced road traffic etc.
I think it's lost too.
Ebikes now include Surrons in the court of popular opinion, and I don't want us in that category, so I think given their popularity ebikes maybe should just be bikes/cycles again. Ebikes have far more in common with the latter than the former
Not really though. ebikes are substantially different to bikes. If you're looking for "most in common", then probably a moped.
I'll politely disagree.
Actually, this is a daft argument. If I put a Bronson, Heckler SL and any number of street ready or offroad mopeds in a line up I think I know which you would say are the most similar.
Mopeds, not scooters.
It's not what looks the most similar, it's about most similar in type. Can be both human and machine propelled.
Isn't it ironic that e-bikers are worried about being sullied by association with e-motorbikes, and so want to pollute the bike nomenclature?
I know the difference, and I completely understand your point - I just don't share the same perspective.
Other than riding up a hill at about double the speed of a regular mountain bike there's really very little difference, in looks, performance on the flat or down a hill. Unlike every other illegal electric motorbike that gets the ebike label from the general public.
As for the last sentence, I don't have an ebike at the moment. I'm not worried about e-mountain bikes being 'sullied by association', I'm worried about all mountain bikes whether they have a motor or not, because to the general public they all look the same.
When a non cyclist, lobbyist or grumpy bloke in the woods is complaining about electric motorbikes, I don't want them picturing a mountain bike (whether there's a motor in there or not).
As for the last sentence, I don't have an ebike at the moment. I'm not worried about e-mountain bikes being 'sullied by association', I'm worried about all mountain bikes whether they have a motor or not, because to the general public they all look the same.
When a non cyclist, lobbyist or grumpy bloke in the woods is complaining about electric motorbikes, I don't want them picturing a mountain bike (whether there's a motor in there or not).
Yeah, fair enough. Point taken.
I guess I've had a different experience, I seem to get a bit more respect from walkers and stuff for not being assisted. I've had more than one comment of "oh! human powered!". I do mostly ride on my own, which might make a difference - large groups of anything are annoying to other trail users. I'm a bit concerned that as e-bikes become more powerful and more popular, we'll see more people on them who just hop on them and head out, without having gained the necessary experience to share the outdoors respectfully with others. And then I'm a little worried about bikes being lumped in with them wholesale.
Im now an e-biker. I bought it to try to burn less caLories, since I am struggling to stop losing weight. I love riding every day, and the choice seemed to be - either ride less often, or burn less calories. My experiment had totally failed. Instead of riding the same distance, im riding 2, 3 or even 4 times as much. And burning the same or even more calories each day. Damn. On the plus side, I’ve never enjoyed so much singletrack in one year. And the biggest benefit has actually been in winter, where trudging through sloppy trails has become faster and much more fun.
However I have to confess that i cringe when I see overweight e bikers. However, on the other hand, why shouldn’t they enjoy the trails I love (im trying to be accepting).
I was also shocked when I saw the latest EGMBN video, which was shot in the states. I didn’t even realise there are class 1, class 2 and class 3 e-bikes. I don’t consider class 2 e-bikes as e-bikes at all. They’re motorbikes! So, I do think there is a justification to finding a different name for bikes that you have to pedal, rather than simply twist a throttle.
i think it’s a losing battle however. The general public has such a short attention span that I don’t think anyone will even listen to our definition of e-bike vs e-motorbike!
I've had more than one comment of "oh! human powered!".
I've had this a few times - I reply with "my other bike has a battery/motor"
Personally, I couldn't care less what they are called, not really bothered how the general public view them and even less bothered about anyone who thinks they are cheating.
Cheat code for more fun!
^^ which is exactly what you'll hear from the bolt-on-bafang crowd.
E-bike fits well, no need for change.
im riding 2, 3 or even 4 times as much
And the biggest benefit has actually been in winter, where trudging through sloppy trails has become faster and much more fun.
That is part of the problem though.
20 years ago winter mountainbiking was something you did with a few like minded idiots for an hour or two in the evening and we'd all have a good old moan about a handful of horse riders doing a disproportionate amount of trail damage and ruining it for everyone else. Now with the invention of e-bikes and dirt-suits some riding areas are as busy in winter as they are in summer, and people are doing laps not just one run. It's a fine line to be trodden between sustainable use and gatekeeping, but 10 people doing one run is sustainable, 1 person adding 10 runs to that isn't. Especially if that one person has the ability to keep riding the area long after it's been rendered unrideable for the other 10.
ironic that e-bikers are worried about being sullied by association with e-motorbikes
+1
Especially newer models and people talking about de-restricting them or changes to the law. Specialized and Bosch are ~600W motors, DJI is 1000W. The bikes might be more expensive and better packaged to look like "bikes", but they've got more in common with a deliveroo special.
I like e-bikes, they're great. But I worry that the genie is out the bottle with them being used irresponsibly and either they're going to get banned, or worse all bikes will end up banned seasonally / from certain trails / areas. It happened to motorboats in the Lake District, it's happened to 4x4/dirtbikes almost everywhere.
I've just stumbled across a sad but relevant article (Telegraph). The headline mentions a pensioner being killed by an e-bike but although the article continues to use the term, (rather than e-motorbike) it does identify it as a Sur-On & reports that a charge has been made for causing death by dangerous driving thus identifying the offender as a driver not a cyclist.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/18/e-bike-hit-and-run-kills-pensioner-northumbria-police/
Sloppy BBC reporting, again. The headline “Man held after cyclist hurt in electric bike crash”, then states in the article the bike was a “Sur-Ron” and then notes “Electrically-assisted pedal cycles, external (EAPC) can be legally ridden by people aged 14 or over but not on pavements. Electric bikes that do not meet the EAPC rules are classed as a motorcycle or moped”.
Can’t help but think the journalist knows full well that Sur-Ron’s are far faster than 15mph, but hey, let’s blame electric bikes 🙄
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c70xzvx01ywo
Apologies, I could not get the website link address to work.
EDIT: eventually got it working 🤷♂️