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With lockdown, and the lack of biking, i have spent a lot of time hunting and messing about on the ebike, leaving the enduro sat about mostly, before it was used for all the fun stuff, and uplift days and so on, it's a 27.5" Transition Patrol, same wheelsize as all the bikes, but i've been thinking of trying 29", and it would more than likely mean selling the tranny and getting a 29, maybe even slightly less travel, but what would the benefits be, i've already kind of binned it as at 5' 7" i've rarely found one that isn't either too much standover, or too little reach, but i do see they're getting better with this.
So, what would be the real benefits of changing, or would it be just a faff, i mainly do enduro stuff, with a bit of XC to join it together, anyone about my height done the shift over, was it worth it really, or just kind of the same (some benefits, some negatives), but with bigger wheels meaning?
If your stuck to the same type of bike then very little you would notice.
The type of bike ( enduro, xc etc.) Is going to have vastly more impact on how the bike feels if you decide to go down that route.
Unless you’ve got particularly long legs, I’d be expecting someone of your height to prefer a mullet (29F/27R) bike to a full 29er for gnarly riding.
If you’re ok with losing 20mm fork travel you could put a 29” fork and front wheel onto your Patrol which would make the whole bike about a degree slacker and raise the BB by about 6mm.
Edit - On second thoughts, let's not be stoking that particular old fire...
What I found was, I never once rode over a root or a rock and thought wow, these slightly bigger wheels made that easier. But over a distance and especially on a technical/rough descent, I just get that bit less beat up and tired and that means I can ride harder, or safer. There's a couple of descents that as race stages I'm just hanging on for my life by the end- prospacker at innerleithen if run from the top of the red, most things at kinlochleven- and that's where the difference really shone through for me. But it's there all the time really, just most obvious when things get mad or racy but even a short pedally blast like say Magic Mushroom at glentress felt pretty different.
I'd never really felt any big downsides til I went to the mega and discovered it's way way less good on the glacier 🙂 and just occasionally when sort of bodging through drops it makes things sketchier, shouldn't do really but there's times when you're sort of just barely landing it for whatever reason and "just barely" could become "not" I reckon if things were just right.
But as much as I love 'em and think it's the best size for me, if I had a good 650b bike or even a really good 26er with modern style geo, I wouldn't replace it just for the wheel size, no chance. A good bike is a good bike.
But as much as I love ’em and think it’s the best size for me, if I had a good 650b bike or even a really good 26er with modern style geo, I wouldn’t replace it just for the wheel size, no chance. A good bike is a good bike.
Such objectivity and good sense has no place here Sir.
A good bike is a good bike.
+1
I rode the same trails last week, once on a 26" hardtail once on a 29" hardtail.
The trails weren't any more alive on the 29" but the grip was better and I was a bit faster on the 29" up and down.
The bikes are different in lots of ways, but if either was my only bike is be quite happy.
If I had to sell one it would be the 26"
A 29 would be a slight bit faster overall given a variety of riding and terrain over a given distance but to me a 26 feels better.
I have just built up a 29 as no point fighting against the tide but I would probably still prefer riding a 26 as I am not racing so if I am a minute slower over an hour it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
How funny, spent most of lockdown wondering if I should go back to 27.5!
29ers roll easier over rough ground than small wheels.
Does that help?
A good bike is a good bike.
This. Wheel size is just a part of the equation. I’ve ridden bikes with both wheel sizes, some I liked, some I didn’t, still have bikes with both sizes, for different reasons.
I’m told that 27.5 does bring the trail alive though, so what do I know?
"Should i try 29ers, what are the main benefits?"
I'd say, finding out if you like 29ers.
(Answering the subject, like)
What I found was, I never once rode over a root or a rock and thought wow, these slightly bigger wheels made that easier.
OTOH, on my 29er I can more easily clear dry, hoof-pocked and rutted bridleways and fields (for the most part) without dabbing nor performing hundreds of core-busting micro-hops. After a lifetime of 26ers (my hardtail is still 26er) this is noticeably more doable. Riding buddy often dismounting behind (on his 26er) agrees on the evidence, but is wedded to the old.
But as much as I love ’em and think it’s the best size for me, if I had a good 650b bike or even a really good 26er with modern style geo, I wouldn’t replace it just for the wheel size, no chance. A good bike is a good bike.
Agreed, but my next bike will prob be a 29er, mainly cos it's looking like it's either that or a mullet, ain't much choice really.
Good stuff, i'm inherently lazy, so changing bikes is way too much effort, just a lockdown think, maybe the next bike will be a 29er, probably have 32" by then!
OP - I'm sure you'll find one with the right fit and geometry now, it sounds like you know what you need to look for.
I'm 5ft 8in with short legs and have had to become very familiar with reading bike geometry charts (and dropper post insertion depths & stack heights). All my current MTBs are large models which have short-ish seat tubes.
The benefits have already been addressed, but for me they just make everything a bit easier, except maybe cornering.
In summary;
If you're in the market for a new bike now, 29er would be the way to go (unless you're some sort of hobbit / dwarf).
If you already have a nice 26 / 27.5 bike you enjoy riding, then you're not missing out on anything life-changing.
I'm 5'7" and ride a medium frame S-150.
Before that I was riding an On-One Codiene, both with 29" wheels. So I wouldn't worry about height being an issue.
Compared to the 26" Turner 5 Spot I was riding they feel like cheating, I've never ridden 27.5"
Its really difficult to compare what impact the wheels have on their own though, as obviously there is also a big leap in geometry compared to a a 10 year old 26" bike.
But, if I had a modern bike that I liked I don't think I'd change just because of wheel size.
If you’re in the market for a new bike now, 29er would be the way to go (unless you’re some sort of hobbit / dwarf).
What if you've bought into the 50:01 Instagram hype and try to turn XC rides into Jibfests though? Is there still a role for a 'playful' bike having 27.5 wheels?
My current bike is 27.5, I spent the last 4 years feeling sure that the next one would be a 29er. Now I'm not so certain.
Good point, if you sned more time hopping on and off picnic tables than shredding the gnar, definitely stick with 27in.
5'7" ridden various 29ers since 2010ish, 1st big wheels were xc, just seemed faster, latest ride is 170/160 gnar behemoth, which flatters me no end, I love em... ymmv
“ they just make everything a bit easier, except maybe cornering.”
Cornering is about 90% of the important stuff where I locally ride!
Ive got a 29er and two 650b bikes, they're all roughly the same type of bike (enduro bikes) and of similar amounts of travel, geometry etc. and I have ridden various other 29ers in addition to my own.
Generally speaking I dont like how 29ers feel, but I cant put my finger on what it is about the feel I dont like. For me 29ers are definitely faster, the stop watch doesnt lie, but there's something about the way they feel I dont like, and thats not just my 29er, but the other 29ers I've ridden.
My arse also gets buzzed by the back tyre of the 29er on steeper stuff, which never happens on the 650b's, and I'm 5 foot 10.
None of this is a massive problem, but I do prefer the 650b's. If 650b bikes disappeared over night then I'd carry on riding but with 29ers but if I have a choice when buying my next bike, all other things being equal I'll choose 650 b
i’ve already kind of binned it as at 5′ 7″ i’ve rarely found one that isn’t either too much standover, or too little reach, but i do see they’re getting better with this.
Neither of these are problems with or caused by 29 inch wheels. They just happen to be an issue of incorrect fit (or personal preference if you are trying mates bikes).
You may be a fraction shorter than the median western male but you are far from being a statistical outlier that needs specially catering for.
I tested Bird Zeros in both flavours, I wanted the AM as I expected it to be more fun and I didn't really want to move from 26" but my ti456 was getting on a bit and harder to upgrade. But the 29er was a revelation. Rode them back to back on the same trails at Inners, so steep, twisty, flat out, all the fun stuff. Both bikes were great fun but the 29er smoothed out the kind of trail chatter that wears you down and felt more stable at speed. I would occasionally buzz the back tyre with my backside in the early days but that doesn't happen often now. I wouldn't want to buy a bike without demoing, that is one of the reasons j went with the Bird rather than an Orange or Whyte which I was also considering.
“ they just make everything a bit easier, except maybe cornering.”
Cornering is about 90% of the important stuff where I locally ride!
Yeah I have pals who are still happily on 650b for similar reasons.
I have been working on my cornering a fair bit and am quicker now on my 29ers than I ever was on smaller wheels, but sometimes I swap bikes with someone for a run and it surprises me how much more natural they feel in the turns.
Would like to try a mullet, but no way am I changing now that I've got my various wheelsets and tyres all sorted.
That is hard to say the only 27.5 full suss I have owned was a 2017 Trek Remedy found I was sat in it to much never liked the handling compared to the 26" Remedys I have owned so my bikes are 29ERs find them faster and more fun to ride apart from the ridged Fattie which has 27.5" wheels and rolls great so no help at tall.
I went from a Nomad 4 to a Starling Mumur. I'm 170cm and have pretty short legs.
Nomad
Changes direction a bit quicker
Feels a bit easier to get off ground
Murmur
Holds speed better (particularly noticeable on flatter and techy-er trails)
Holds a line a bit better
Feels a bit grippier in corners
There are a number of other differences between the bikes that would also have an impact, so it's not exactly scientific. The biggest thing to me was the Murmur just feels like less work to keep the speed up, especially when it's really rough. I've never had any issues with being a short arse on a a 29er and before lockdown I did manage to ride some proper steep stuff without any bum/tyre interface.
Those buzzing their bums on 29ers, I've found two solutions to this.
1. Higher handlebar.
2. Longer chainstays.
The first probably easier than the second in a lot of instances.
Both my hardtail and enduro bike are 29er, I feel like I had more fun on 27.5 wheels but maybe that’s rose tinted specs! I am really keen on trying mullet on my meta, there is a linkage available to keep the stock geometry but run a smaller back wheel. That way would be a direct comparison. Incidentally I don’t know if I would change my 29er hardtail as the bigger wheels make more sense on that in my head
Trouble is my airdrop was shorter and different angles so there is likely more at play than just wheel size!
You may be a fraction shorter than the median western male but you are far from being a statistical outlier that needs specially catering for
I'm stealing that for my Tinder profile
i’ve already kind of binned it as at 5′ 7″ i’ve rarely found one that isn’t either too much standover, or too little reach, but i do see they’re getting better with this.
I'm 2 inches shorter than you and find current small framed 29ers very comfortable. I didn't 6 years ago when i forst sat on one, but they have changed a lot since.
The standover on my small On One Whippet is lower than my small Whyte T130.
I'm 5"7 as well and have opted for a mullet. My old bike was a Bird Aeries in 160mm guise and I was pretty happy with it. Bought a 29'er hardtial in the summer (Orbea Laufey) for mucking around and winter riding and was surprised to find it felt a lot quicker on the trail center and flatter rootier stuff than the bird, even with the crappier fork. Took it on some of the off piste stuff as well for a laugh and got myself in a bit of trouble. Buzzed the back wheel twice on the steep stuff. I sold that to get a gravel bike as I didn't think I would use it enough - it really exacerbated my hand pain issues so I tended to avoid it.
It did however convince me of the benefits of the 29er front wheel, so I've gone and gotten a banshee titan and mulleted it. The main advantage for me is holding speed in rougher stuff more easily and giving my hands a bit of an easier time.
I'm 6'2" and I'm still on 27.5. I've just never ridden a 29er that I like. Yeah, they're smoother and faster most of the time but that's not the stuff I'm bothered about.
I've only had a few demo days on different bikes (Scott, Trek, Spesh etc) but I remember that when they're up to full charging speed they're harder to tip over and change direction and they like to stand up in corners. I also struggled to get them off the ground on jumps and generally wiggle them around. I might get used to all this if I owned one but at the time it felt silly to switch to something that felt worse everywhere except on the boring bits.
If I was all about distance, bridleways and heart rate monitors and stuff, I'd probably get one. But I still prefer the 'arsing around in the woods' style of riding so I don't feel the need for bigger wheels.
Unfortunately the options are becoming limited and all the new bikes I like the look of have 29 inch wheels. Maybe I could have two different bikes for the first time? I've never tried that.
To be honest, it was just a thought, been there a few times but with Covid and the lack of biking, was looking at options, but wanted to hear folk around my height, who had changed sizes, reality is i like my patrol, for what i use it for it's great, it just gets a bit lumpy on trail/xc stuff to and from enduro stuff, but then again it's 170/165 so not exactly built for long days out in the saddle!
Was thinking of going down to 150/140 or similar, but again talking myself out of it as i enjoy uplift days at BPW, 417, etc and days at Windhill.
Think i'll just wait it out until i need to replace the patrol, so breakage or a few years from now, reality is i can just use the ebike for trail stuff, again it's an enduro ebike (e-reign), but it does all well enough, then just the hardtail for the proper benign stuff.
Cheers for the comments, just a daft thought being put into a post to get it out in the open and in the bin now!
Ive got a 29er and two 650b bikes, they’re all roughly the same type of bike (enduro bikes) and of similar amounts of travel, geometry etc. and I have ridden various other 29ers in addition to my own.
Generally speaking I dont like how 29ers feel, but I cant put my finger on what it is about the feel I dont like. For me 29ers are definitely faster, the stop watch doesnt lie, but there’s something about the way they feel I dont like, and thats not just my 29er, but the other 29ers I’ve ridden.
My arse also gets buzzed by the back tyre of the 29er on steeper stuff, which never happens on the 650b’s, and I’m 5 foot 10.
None of this is a massive problem, but I do prefer the 650b’s. If 650b bikes disappeared over night then I’d carry on riding but with 29ers but if I have a choice when buying my next bike, all other things being equal I’ll choose 650 b.
Second the above (no idea if it has linked properly or not!).
I'm 5 10. Got a Med Whyte S150 29er nearly two years ago now and despite not riding it that much due to lockdown and other issues, I've always struggled to get it feeling just right. I rode the last tweedlove epic on it and it was really confidence inspiring on those stages, so it must be good. But riding on my local trails I find getting it round corners difficult and it regularly buzzed my arse on steep stuff. Flat out on stoney rough trails it is definitely faster than the 650b Airdrop Edit I had previously, guessing due to the improved rollover of the 29er tyres.
I've bodged a mullet set up on it and that has definitely helped although I still find the front a little vague but think that is suspension set up more than anything. If you are going to get a 29er I'd recommend getting one that can run either 650b or mullet set up with the correct geometry (like Forbidden's Druid which has a different linkage you can buy for mullet set up I think).
I've got a 650b hardtail and think I've got them the wrong way round, a 29er HT would be better for smoothing out the bumps on the local fields, bridleways, etc. whilst I think a 650b full susser would be better for me for going to trail centres, races, etc.
See if you can demo one first in a couple of different places and see how it feels.
I've just switched to a geared hardtail 29er after decades on XC 26ers (mostly singlespeeds). I bought a Whyte 529 as it also has an interesting geometry which is between XC and Trail - slack headtube, steeper seat tube and 120mm forks. So, very different from what I had before.
I'm really liking the bike and 29er wheels. I think the reason being that I am 6ft 1 with long legs and a shorter torso. The larger wheels and the way the frame is designed means that everything feels more in proportion and therefore 'safer'.
On the downside, the bike is heavier and probably less nimble on the twisty stuff, but that second issue may lessen as I get the hang of it.
I'd certainly recommend a switch to a 29er but would suggest that they are probably a bigger benefit for taller riders.
Each time I’ve gone to a new wheel size there’s been something more significant changing too! My first 27.5” bike was also my first full-sus. And my first 29” bike was also my first ebike. My other bike is a 27.5 150mm hardtail.
If I was any good at racing I’d only race on a 29, be it XC, DH, whatever. It’s just faster everywhere, although you do have to put more effort in on tight or slalom turns. But my 27.5 hardtail is so versatile and so fun - it’s never the fastest but it’ll get down very tech stuff (obviously I’m the limiting factor but it raises my limits more than most bikes) whilst proving entertaining on easy trails, pump tracks, etc.
My main riding mate went from a Transition Patrol to a Sentinel 2 years ago and I went from a Nomad to a HB130 last year - so both went from a similar bike to you (or identical) to a trail 29er but both are still on the enduro end of trail. (sentinel more so)
It takes a lot of adjustment, I needed 6 months to get to grips with the HB, needed to alter a few things but its running sweet now. Mainly brakes (hated hopes and needed more confidence as you hit things faster) riding position (you are far more over the font) and you have to adjust your riding to a slower in, faster out in the corners method as you can feel the extra wheel weight in the corners.
Collectively we have both noticed we are overall faster, we are riding rougher ground easier and suffering less fatigue for same trails.
Personally I have now ridden a couple of things I couldn't on the Nomad, both are very rooty/technical and the HB just doesn't get as hung up as the Nomad did, so I can concentrate on line knowing the bike will get over it.
Downsides? noticeable gyro effect on steering (running heavy tyres) more flex in the wheels (I like mine stiff!!) and I have buzzed my butt a few times on the back wheel riding super steep stuff.
I still run a 650b hardtail (Shan, again 160mm enduro focussed) and it feels very strange when I get on it, but it is noticeable more flickable and gets up to speed faster.
I would not hesitate to recommend doing it but you need to adjust riding style and you might feel you take a step back, but after a period of adjustment you should be faster.
“ It takes a lot of adjustment, I needed 6 months to get to grips with the HB”
That is a long time!
I went from a Spitfire to a Levo (power off on the downhill stuff so it’s just a very heavy 29er). The geometry was very similar, just a fair bit more stack height but longer chainstays too (which sort of cancel each other out in terms of how the bike handles) and obviously the bigger wheels.
The day I got it the trails were filthy muddy and wet. Within about half an hour I was two wheel drifting these loose flat turns as well as I’ve ever ridden a bike.
It was so bizarre how quickly I got used to it! Jumps too, I’m not good at them but I fly a lot better on this big beast. It basically wants to go full speed in a straight line over everything - but once you crank it into a turn it wants to hold that line and grips so well. Requires a very active riding style and a fair bit of leverage, or you’ll be an out of control passenger!
The flip side is that it’s not keen on pootling, it’s a bit too capable.
“ they just make everything a bit easier, except maybe cornering.”
Cornering is about 90% of the important stuff where I locally ride!
If "cornering" for you means physically moving the bars whilst keeping the bike close to upright, then 29ers probably aren't for you...
Otherwise, the longer contact patch afforded by the larger radius is generally a fair bonus.
29ers changed Mountain Biking for me. Don't get me wrong, I'd still be doing it and having fun if I was on 26" wheels, but I jumped wholesale to 29ers in 2013 and have never looked back. Haven't even owned a 27.5" wheeled bike (though am just building up a 27.5" rear to give Mullet a try on my Geometron as proposed by Chris Porter)... We're all different, but I get my kicks from carrying as much corner speed as I can as a rule rather than slow speed manoeuvrability.
Report back when you've tried the mullet.
I've had a couple and I think they do mitigate the gyro effect described by Sharkattack on the previous page. Or whatever it is, they are just a bit more intuitive to corner - and not just at slow speed.
Report back when you’ve tried the mullet.
Planning on (at some point when I can get to the trails properly!) doing a bit of back to back testing hopefully. The theory being the tiny bit of rolling speed you lose is less important on the steeper/techier trails, and the 27.5 rear wheel helps the bike to turn faster without affecting the stability brought by the long wheelbase/slack head angle/shorter fork offset etc... The beauty of the Geometron is I can do this easily on the same bike, merely swapping shock mount position to compensate for the change in rear wheel size. 👍🏻