[Closed] Shockwiz - can it cope with progressive linkages?

Well, it does look at the compression ratio during set up. It knows where your curve starts and where it finishes but I've no idea what curve it assumes between those two points. There's certainly no way to adjust it.

Exactly, it knows top out and bottom out but no points between the two.  Maybe the software can roughly work it out?

I suppose the real question is, how important a difference does it make? There's a huge thread on MTBR, perhaps someone there has it figured out.

Thanks, I’ve just had a skim through that.  I see doubts being raised but no opinion on what it would get wrong.  What I’m feeling is that my forks are great but the rear shock is too soft.  I could be wrong since I’m far from a suspension guru but maybe it is impossible for the software to deal with the array of varying linkages out there.

I thought maybe I could get the attention of some of the geometry nerds for 5 mins to give some theories 😀

Presumably a progressive linkage will have a suitable shock and base tune. So, it's then just a question of how the shock reacts to any input and drawing conclusions from there?
That might be an oversimplistic view.

Not going to help here but it would be great if the shockwiz could take the serial number of the unit and then show the settings you can change for that - potentially possible with rockshox units.

I've used it and had some success but got properly confused with the umpteen compression adjustments it was suggesting.

It did improve things for me but I was using it on a basic shock and fork, so didn't have too much to do.

I’ve had lots of success with mine. My understanding is that it basically measures change in air pressure in the shock and specifically the rate of change on both the compression and rebounds stories. I assume it detects to out and bottom out by the way air pressure behaves just before it tops or bottoms out.  It should therefore by ok with all leverage curves

Yes, it knows pressure and time so it knows where in the stroke your shock is and how fast it is moving. But it doesn’t know how that relates to the suspension travel of your rear wheel because it doesn’t know what the linkage is doing. Does this matter?

well, I would guess that it assumes everything is linear, right?

so a progressive/ramp up travel profile would flummox it in the 'belief' that when the rear wheel is ACTUALLY 75% of the way through the travel, it may think it's 50% of the way through. this it may tell you to speed up the compression incorrectly.

but this is just a guess....!

DrP

My 2p

I've used one a lot, we sort of own one between 5 of us.

If you follow the set-up procedure properly it should be able to calculate the ramp curve or whatever it's called, but I don't have much faith in them to be honest.

It's not a box of magic that will easily give you the perfect tune for all eventualities and frankly it's tied a few of us up in knots trying to chase that perfect score and just made things worse.

It won't for example help you rip down that rock garden like Gwin that you have to tip toe down now, well unless you're brave enough to just 'send it' and let it help you find a setting that will make that more controllable, most people who want to use one, they'll ride it as quickly as they dared before and unless you're barely holding onto the bike it'll tell you it's about right, because you rode well withing the limits of the fork or shock.

My guess is that they can cope with progressive linkages because they will be able to compare the pressure unloaded, then with static sag, then on movement over drops. That should give them an idea of how the shock volume and linkage progression contribute. A thing like a ShockWiz is always going to only get you into the ballpark anyway, I think they are really just checking that sag is ok and that you use most of the travel over big impacts.

I still don’t think the linkage matters because unless you want to set your suspension up so uses x% of the travel on a particular impact it doesn’t matter. If you do a whole ride and never bottom out them for that ride you could run it softer. I leave mine on for half a dozen rides and see what it suggests then before deciding what to change if anything.

All good points.

it may think it’s 50% of the way through. this it may tell you to speed up the compression incorrectly.

Or it could tell me I need less pressure.  Unless it sees pressure more dedicated to sag

I still don’t think the linkage matters because unless you want to set your suspension up so uses x% of the travel on a particular impact it doesn’t matter

And you may be correct but you won’t cut it as a bike journo, they are all about the mid stroke support

As above, shockwiz determines the position in the shock stroke by the change in pressure as a result of the change in volume as per gas laws. On an aside I also wonder if the shockwiz makes any adjustments for temperature on long runs, I doubt it though.

So as there's no option to input the leverage ratio it can't gain that information from the air pressure change alone as that's a effected by a combination of both the leverage ratio and position in the shock stroke, with no way to differentiate.

However, as most mountain bikes with a few outsiders (orange and yt on each side of the spectrum, for example) have at least fairly similar leverage rates, I imagine the software is built around a typical set up and won't assume it's linear.

This would mean the position of the stroke compared with the actual percentage of wheel travel used may be slightly off, I doubt it makes much difference however. IME shockwiz does give an excellent starting point for suspension set up, and any small adjustments for personal preference/individual suspension designs can be taken from there if really needed.

IME shockwiz does give an excellent starting point for suspension set up, and any small adjustments for personal preference/individual suspension designs can be taken from there if really needed.

Exactly. And it's doesn't give a single 'answer' - as basic you can set it up as Balanced or playful and custom gives you softest - firmest (over 5 steps) and 'liveliness' form planted/poppy/active.

Ie, you can use it in reverse. If you think it feels a bit firm select a 'softer' target - you'll probably adjust the air pressure/air chamber spacers. Shockwiz then will help you get the damping settings back in line much quicker than you'd manage yourself.

On my Fox DHX2 I'd had two suggested sets of settings. One from a tuner, one from the Fox manual and I wasn't quite happy with it based on either.
In order Tuner, Fox, Shockwiz (which is what I'm running now). It was the LSR I'd had most trouble setting up

HSC 22 16-18 22
LSC 8 18-20 20
HSR 17-19 14-16 18
LSR 4-9 17-19 16

I am so sad and my life so hollow that I have taken the time to find a graph of my bike’s linkage ratio, put the values into a spreadsheet and calculated shock compression v rear wheel travel.

Interestingly (yes, really) when the shock is sagged to 25% my rear wheel is roughly 30% into it’s travel.  I am going to stick some more air in my shock and go for a ride

when the rear wheel is ACTUALLY 75% of the way through the travel, it may think it’s 50% of the way through

I know this was just an exaggerated example to make a point but I’ve now got a table of figures. When the rear wheel is 75% through it’s travel the shock is at roughly 71%