[Closed] Shock/Fork service - Am i unlucky?

I service my forks myself.  Rockshox and 'zocchis.  Pretty simple as its just an oil change

Never. Always used TF tuned.

I’ve had rebound adjusters fall off, scores appear shortly after servicing, one on a dropper post and one on a set of pikes.

I service all my stuff myself now and to be fair it’s very easy to nick a new seal that’s a right fit on reassembly.

I've used Mojo loads of times, Loco twice and TFT once I think and never had an issue with any of them.

TF Tuned - always reliable I've found

I've had an issue once.

Generally I service my own forks. TF will do my shock, as they are the only people who can, never had an issue with them, they are a bit pricey, but also very good 🙂

So i'm very unlucky, furry muff.

Really must stop being lazy and do it myself.

Mumble grumble

Of the stuff I've done myself, I've lost a rebound adjuster (no massive deal, it's set at the right point now - interestingly it was one that had a screw to retain it, whereas the rockshox o ring fit have never gone missing on me) a couple of months after servicing. I've also lost 2 rebound adjusters on another set of forks, but I'm pretty sure from the scrapes on them that that was due to rock strikes rather than anything to do with the service haha. In fact I'm pretty sure I lost one before I ever serviced them.

Of the stuff I've sent off... One pair of forks went away, then back, then away again about 4 times before I just gave up and got a new pair of forks. The worst incident was when the rebound adjuster was on the wrong leg with oil everywhere in the package. It was for a manufacturer that didn't offer service instructions and I was forced to use them for servicing. Lesson learnt!

A friend took his forks to his LBS just before going on a big week long trip. They said "Oh, the air-spring shaft looks a bit scratched and will eventually need to be replaced". On the trip, the forks, which had been fine, started leaking air and popping out the seals, and were basically unusable.

I service them myself, it's not that hard.

Never with TF tuned, brillant bunch of people.

Sounds like you're getting all the Friday afternoon specials Phil 🙁

I use TF Tuned now and they're spot on for me, they've even fixed a damper out of warranty on my DT Swiss fork

I've had two issues with Mojo - first time a warranty shock repair broke the rebound damping, second time a warranty shock repair had a faulty seal, which sent shock oil pissing out under pressure.  The courier subsequently lost my shock, so Mojo replaced with a brand new, shiny Kashima CTD free of charge.  I can't really fault them under the circumstances.

Never. Always do it myself.

Been disappointed ....

I spent a lot of time deciding where to send Jnr's fork for a tune.

In the end I sent it to TFT due to times as much as anything and they told me they would need to do a full service before tuning even though the shock was brand new.

I accepted that partly due to knowing they have to take it apart anyway....

When it came bad they did no tuning (other than a pressure that didn't actually return the forks) but changed out brand new seals and rings...

The report completely ignored it being a new fork... "bushings are in good condition"  (well its never been used so I hope so or its a warranty claim)

Got refilled with the same 5wt it went with.... no change of shim stack as discussed...

With the recommended pressure the fork still had 20% sag (80mm) without even being fitted to the bike..to extend it to 100mm it has to be physically pulled. The fork was also physically described incorrectly in the Service Record (120mm not 100mm) which isn't changing without a different airshaft.

In the end I had no written contract on this as it had been discussed over the phone when they said they would tune it for the riders weight so I didn't bother trying to discuss with them. Perhaps I should have but I just worked around it.

Won't be using them again though.

Those saying they do  it themselves are probably doing just a lower lube chscha and seals

Rebuilding a damper be it grip fit or a rs rs charge isn't viable as the parts cost a significant amount so yes they may paint by numbers themselves

Best it to keep on top of the lower lube oil changes yourself then once a year send off

I've used for tuned on several occasions and only ever had an issue with a reverb which mixed oil with air after 3 rides after itnhad been for a service.murray sorted it and they warrantied it for 3 months

This isn't a faufa of tf it can happen

Always had good service from them and Ruth is always good to desk with I'll continue to use them

What???

Ermmmm - fork servicing is just an oil change - damper and lower legs.  Seals and bushes are repairs.  I have not ever replaced a seal in my forks - perhaps because I service them regularly.  Rockshock fork dampers even high end ones are easy to change the oil in.  the zocchis on the tandem are going to need a bushing change at some point - must be 15 years old now.  that will have to go to a specialist.

Doing it yourself means you can do some basic tuning as well - oil levels and viscosity

Niot a bad thing to say about TF, they rang me today to tell me my dampers ETA and ask if I'd forgotten to order a spring with my new damper.

Lovely bunch. I always write down what I want changed in terms of the tune on the order form.

What's more is that their client facing staff have a  good amount of product knowledge, so you don't always have to deal with a tired and overworked technician.

Ermmmm – fork servicing is just an oil change – damper and lower legs.  Seals and bushes are repairs

Errrrr....

.....

....they are wear items.

That you'venever worn seals or bushings out says more about your riding than servicing.

Also, viscosity is a terrible, terrible way to tune a fork.

Ermmmm – fork servicing is just an oil change – damper and lower legs. Seals and bushes are repairs.

This is one of the reasons "full service" costs vary.

Do you guys get your car shocks rebuilt on each service? Probably not. Most garages will check, oil/grease as appropriate and parts/seals are considered repairs when they fail or rather the whole shock is just replaced. Mine usually go for 5 to 10 years without even being touched.

Full service replacing seals and bushes on bike shocks every year always seems OTT (sooner than that going by recommended 200hr full service intervals). Regular maintenance with oil changes and inspect the interior seals for damage and the former should avoid the latter generally. I replace wiper seals but they never seem to need doing either. Have started to do crush washers each time though, even though I've got away with reusing the old ones for years without leaks 😀 , just that I have a big bag of them now so may as well use them.

Rayban - more nonsense from you - why do you keep on making personal attacks based on your lack of understanding?  I really have got under your skin haven't I.  You have already been banned once for personal attacks on me.

Bushes and seals only need replacing when they wear.  Proper servicing means they remain properly lubed which means wear is minimal to non existent.

I suspect a fork on our tandem has had far more stress put thru it than most.  200 plus kilos landing from a few feet does that.  Of course its open bath which helps a great deal.

So please stop making yourself look an idiot by making personal attacks on me.  Especially when your basic premise is wrong once again.

Do you guys get your car shocks rebuilt on each service?

Cars a a lot more overbuilt and have much tougher, tighter seals, high end mtb kit is closer to motocross hardware in terms of service requirements.

I have been servicing and adjusting suspension on motorcycles and bicycles for decades.  No motorcycle service states seal changes at regular intervals nor does the schedule for any of the forks I have.

Lubrication does stop bushings binding - thats what its there for.  Why replace seals that are no0t leaking?

Why the personal attacks all the time - thats quite a few over several days

Depends, again, your average b road cruiser doesn't require it. Because they have been overbuilt from the outset for durability.

MTB and proper MX bikes are more service intensive.

Go on then - show me the service schedule from the manufacturers that says seals must be replaced at every service.  rockshox and marzocchi as those are the forks I have

Why replace seals that are not leaking?  Why replace bushings that are not worn?

TF tuned don't replace bushings that aren't worn. However the performance of seals degrade over time,in terms of friction coefficient (eg micro abrassions get introduced to the seals surface by dirt and some seals have a surface treatment that gets lost) and  their sealing properties.

Fox service schedule is a damoer rebuild every 125 hours which includes seal replacement. I believe that at least the charger damper forks require exactly the same.

It makes sense to replace the parts costing pennies as a preventative measure if you are paying someone hundreds to strip the fork.  But DIY why replace working parts?

So manufactures reccomendations to replace all seals at every service?   rockshock and marzocchi as those are the forks I have

Put up or shut up

Changing the oil is not a service . That is changing the oil

Rock shock suggest a lower leg service which the kit for includes the oil seals , foam rings and wiper seals as well as 2 new crush washers.

At 200 hours they suggest a damper service.

Now obviously that is excessive but in there cases like strathpuffer it's too long.

My sids were serviced prior and I still emptied out fine silica and had manky foam rings - after 24 hours only. But it is a light weight bearbones race fork and I'm a heavy biff.

Changing the oil will keep them feeling better for longer but the short of it is most folk due to gradual degredation don't know when their forks feel like shit. But don't kid your self an oil change is a service.

I actually have top end rockshox as I said earlier.

Again with the insults.  why?

I definantly wrote 50 hours for lower leg service in there but this new forum does its own thing these days

I don't believe for a minute anyone does those intervals mind .... Most folk would never get out on their bike as it'd forever be in the shop. Mostly it's a license to get out of warrenty claims ----although in adverse conditions it is a good idea to adhere .

Does the service schedule actually say to replace the seals?  I certainly don't remember seeing that in the workshop manual.  Seal kit every 50 hours?  having a girraffe

I've used TF Tuned for years now. They've been great. That said I seem to have a high proportion of damage discovered by them on servicing. Whether that's my hamfisted riding or sheet bad luck I don't know!

Just had a set of pikes serviced which are now running well but the monarch rear shock I sent in was a write off. Bought a Cane Creek DBIL coil shock off them which is lovely!!

Right - just checked the technical manual I have for rockshox.  It does NOT say to replace the seals at all.  Merely the fluids.  Inspect and clean for the seals.  Obviously if the seals are worn and letting muck in then a change would be sensible

I'll try to paste the service schedule but given how this forum works I doubt it will come out right

The following chart is a summary of the maintenance/service intervals for RockShox forks. Following this schedule is important to
ensure the consistent performance and longevity of your fork. Some of the information listed may not be applicable to your fork.
Maintenance Interval (Hours)
Inspect carbon crown-steerer Every ride
Clean dirt and debris from upper tubes Every ride
Check air pressure (air forks only) Every ride
Inspect upper tubes for scratches Every ride
Lubricate dust seals and upper tubes Every ride
Change Speed Lube oil bath 25
Check front suspension fasteners for proper torque 25
Clean and lubricate remote lockout cable and housing 25
Remove lowers, clean/inspect bushings and change oil bath
(if applicable) 50
Clean and lubricate air spring assembly 50
Change oil in damping system (including hydraulic lockout) 100
Clean and lubricate coil spring assembly (coil forks only) 100

so rayban - I have asked you several times now to give me the manufacturers recommendation for changing the seals as a part of the service.  You have not.  Until then I will continue to adhere to the service schedule as in the technical manual I have.

I've had many rockshox seals fail, usually the one at the bottom of the air spring around the shaft so the -ve air leaks out goes first, also had ones in damping going after far too long without being replaced. Had ten year  old dust wipers go funny and let oil out too. Also had monarch debonair sleeve seals fail after maybe 60 hours riding with the bike just sitting there over winter, they were permanently flattened when I took them out so must have been enough for the air at over 150 psi to leak through. Also had my reverb fail on the roof of the car on a long journey to italy, dumped all its oil en route.

This is what it has to say about seal changes

Suspension fork seals are considered "wear and tear" parts and require regular maintenance, depending on the frequency of
riding, riding terrain, and type of fork. The more you ride, the more frequently your seals need to be replaced. The following
chapter covers wiper and oil seal removal and installation. At this point you should already have the lower legs removed from
your fork. If not, you will need to return to the Lower Leg Removal section of this manual and follow the instructions for removing
your fork lower legs.

so no - you do not have to replace the seals every service.  Manufacturers own technical manual

I consider that conclusive.  According to rockshox you replace the seals when worn or damaged.  Service is replacing the fluids.

I consider that conclusive.  According to rockshox you replace the seals when worn or damaged.  Service is replacing the fluids.

You mean repairing worn and damaged oil right?

I don’t believe for a minute anyone does those intervals mind …. Most folk would never get out on their bike as it’d forever be in the shop. Mostly it’s a license to get out of warrenty claims —-although in adverse conditions it is a good idea to adhere .

For me, it ends up being a lower service after 6 months, followed by a full service 6 months later. Otherwise things start to go wrong.

Are you going to apologise Rayban for your insults and personal attacks now I have shown you to be wrong?

I'll just say it again.  the rockshox technical manual does NOT state to change the seals every service.  A service is a fluid change and inspection of the bushings and seals.  Seals are replaced when worn or damaged.as are bushings.

I asked you several times where you got your information from.  Nothing from you

Are you going to apologise Rayban for your insults and personal attacks now I have shown you to be wrong?

You didn't, you just quoted Rock Shox stating that it is a wear item and therefore a service item. Repairs indicate damage through misuse, accidents or manufacturing defects.

Although I do apologise for my tone and the way I went about responding to you telling me I don't know what I'm talking about.

Lyrik manual has you replacing damper seals at 200 hours.

I posted the service schedule and it does not include seal replacement.  Seals are only to be replaced if worn or damaged.  thats direct information from the manufacturer.

Ie what I said earlier and you gave me abuse for saying so telling me folk would damage their forks

You cannot admit when you have been shown to be wrong.

is that a current manual or did it come on the ark because it seems at odds with current recomendations.

Seals are to be replaced at 200 hours for the Lyrik - see page 36 - or does a seal head not count as a seal - did you not read my statement saying that your experiences do not translate to the equipment everyone else is using.

You'd be a nightmare in a GMP environment, technical documentation can become slightly contradictory when they get revised repeatedly.

"Dunning Kruger Syndrome" is a bit strong.

Edited to remove possible insult.

Trail rat   2011

rayban - thats the last time I answer you in any form.  I wish the blocking software still works.  You cannot even admit when you are shown to be wrong.  Neither can you read a manual.  Bye.

Neither can you read a manual.  Bye.

LOL. *sigh*

Do I really need to post a screenshot of that Lyrik manual? I guess it could be fake news.

I actually have top end rockshox as I said earlier.

Again with the insults.  why?

Well, calling technically correct opinions "nonsense" and telling others to "Put up or shut up" might elicit a terse response. But toodles TJ. 🙂

indeed maybe in 2011 they didn't suggest replacement but in 2018 manuals they definitely tell you remove and discard so i assume that means replace as the forks wont work without them

The current service manual for 2018 linked above is pretty clear on part replacement during a 200 hour service (parts are cleaned in the 50 hour service)

<div>Service Procedures</div>
<div>The following procedures should be performed throughout service, unless otherwise specified</div>
<div>
<div>Replace the o-ring or seal with a new one from the service kit. Use your</div>
<div>fingers or a pick to pierce and remove the old seal or o-ring.</div>
<div>
<div>Parts, Tools, and Supplies</div>
<div>Parts</div>
<div>•</div>
<div>RockShox® Lyrik™ or Yari™ 200 Hour Service Kit</div>
<div>
<div>Follow this maintenance schedule and install the service</div>
<div>parts included in each service kit that corresponds with the Service Hours Interval recommendation below.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div>Also repeated throughout the 200 hour serice instructions "remove and discard"</div>
<div></div>

<div>
<div>Remove the top cap o-ring and discard it. Apply grease to a new o-ring</div>
<div>and install it.</div>
<div>Discard the seal head and wave spring.</div>
<div>
<div>Remove the quad ring seal from the air piston and</div>
<div>discard it</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>etc etc</div>
</div>

<div>For Fox forks again clear service parts are to be replaced</div>

<div>Every 125 Hours / Yearly, or whichever comes first</div>
<div>Full fork service (Full internal/external inspection, damper rebuild, air spring rebuild, bath oil and wiper replacement).</div>
<div>
<h1>2018 36 FLOAT NA2 Air Spring Rebuild</h1>
<div class="chunk lists">
<div id="partlist" class="list">
<h3>Required Parts</h3>

• 803-01-226 Seal Kit 36 FLOAT NA2 Rebuild

<h1>2016-2018 36mm F-S/P-Se FIT4 3pos w/Adj Damper Cartridge Rebuild</h1>
<div class="chunk lists">
<div id="partlist" class="list">
<h3>Required Parts</h3>

• 025-03-010 Oil: AM, FOX Bath Oil [32 oz.], 20 WT Gold
• 025-06-007 Oil: Suspension Fluid [1.00 Quart] R3, 5WT, ISO 15
• 803-00-961 Seal Kit: 36 & 40 FIT4 Cartridge Rebuild

</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div>Again "remove and discard" in the manual

</div>

Quick look at a 2011 Boxxer manual is all about changing o-rings as part of a damper service. Do we know which super-duper high end RS fork TJ has that doesn’t have this as part of the service?

FWIW I am in the clean and change oil camp, however I’d also be fuming if a seal let go shortly after i’d serviced it

Seriously guys, let it go.

We are only talking about bloody bikes here.

Life is too short. Really.

Just skirting round the little thread detour if I may ....

Thanks for all the kind words and feedback, which we always read and digest carefully. Some responses to the comments raised.

If a shock tune requires a complete strip and rebuild then the labour and parts involved equate to a service and so are treated as such in the workshop. This is case whether the shock is new or not.

We’ve seen enough poorly built suspension to know that you should never assume that a new, factory fresh fork or shock is automatically fit for purpose. This is why all the suspension we sell gets a thorough checking over before we send it to you. Comments about bushings etc in reports are deliberately there so you can be assured we’ve checked it on your behalf.

In the busy periods we type a lot of reports, so occasionally, as we are only human, we make typos/ mistakes. If you spot something that doesn’t look right – just get in touch. We can always send you an updated version for your records.

If you have questions about our work – please always call us. You could ask random strangers on the internet 🙂 but however lovely they are they won’t have seen your suspension, and we will have!

Cheers,

Ruth @TFT

Well this thread turned into a shower of arse didn't it.

Get out of thinking about manufacturers service guidance and timescales as designed by engineers. They have an input but so do the bean counters, the liability people, the warranty guys etc, and then they weigh up what they can get away with and what people will acually do. If the old Fox schedule that insisted you stop before the end of a wet 24 hour race and service your forks didn't tell you that, or all the times a new model comes with "more reliable seals" and shorter service intervals, didn't tell you that then I don't know what could... Do all those parts need replaced every time? No. I think the only tme I've ever replaced a crush washer was because I lost one.

The thing with suspension is, they sometimes go wrong fast and obvious, but sometimes they go wrong slow and stealthy and most people just won't notice if they ride 10 hours a week and it takes months to go wrong. So yep it's pretty reasonable that a service will find a fault. It's why I like pro servicing- I can do anything bar a nitrogen charge myself but servicing isn't just changing bits and oil, it's also spotting things that have gone off and I'll only see that if it's really obvious.

But then there's economics. A really basic, frequent clean and fluid change will generally keep suspension happy for a very long time- whereas the cost of by-the-book servicing adds up very fast. Bangernomics kicks in really fast with bike parts- they hold little value and it can be reasonable to roll the dice and just do the least you can stand to do, and deal with it if it goes wrong.

And that's another way of saying, don't take service guides as divine law.As long as you have the ability to make sensible decisions anyway. It's like your 5 a day.

so some forks state to change some damper seals at a damper service.  this is still not what Rayban was insisting which was that at every service you change all seals including wiper seals.

Wow. Pathetic. 🙄

I do wish some would stay in the general forum to argue about their preferred topics of trump, brexit & the tories.

It was Ruth who called me to discuss my order, brilliant service. Over the literal decade+ that friends and family have dealt with them, they've never replaced anything that didn't need replacing and they have picked up on and sorted out issues that multiple warranties with the manufacturer failed to sort out. I find their product advice refreshingly impartial as well.

I feel inspired to spend a quiet evening changing the oil in my forks!

Over the years I’ve used

- TFT: both with Tim there and post Tim

- Loco: (Simon) who has now moved on I think

- J-Tech

- Sprung (Jake at the FoD)

I don’t remember having one poor experience. More importantly the forks or shock came back in a noticeably better condition than when it was sent. I have a mate who does oil/seals for me, but I still try and send them off every year. Might be false economy but when you’re away for a week riding, it’s good to know the suspension has been serviced fully by a professional.

I use Jake exclusively now as he’s close and I can drop stuff in, have a chat and get some useful face to face advice.

TJ and rayban, step away from the internet, both of you....

I've got to agree with TJ here, the only time I've had to replace seals has been on forks with damage on the stanchions and/or around the same time as bushings.

Those saying they do  it themselves are probably doing just a lower lube chscha and seals

Depends on the fork - the one point I'd disagree with TJ on is replacing bushes on Marzocchis being not a DIY job. If you buy the seal fitting tools it's quite possible to DIY it on Marzocchis - although I believe it's a more involved affair on Rockshox possibly requiring more specialist tools.

And, well, OK I've not done the travel adjust bleed on my Marzocchis cos I can't find the bleed tool online, and I haven't sent them off cos it'd be too much hassle/time without the bike! (They're stuck on full travel, so not the end of the world). Apart from that though none of my forks have needed anything more doing. I probably should use someone else to do the more complicated stuff cos it takes ages the first time (have had a Reverb fully stripped, took a while and there are 2 parts that require a knack to do, so took me a good while -won't take me so long next time though).

 A really basic, frequent clean and fluid change will generally keep suspension happy for a very long time- whereas the cost of by-the-book servicing adds up very fast. Bangernomics kicks in really fast with bike parts- they hold little value and it can be reasonable to roll the dice and just do the least you can stand to do, and deal with it if it goes wrong.

I kind of agree here too, as long as you do something - I've seen too many bikes with really sticky unlubricated forks from just not bothering to service, it makes me totally not trust anyone that bangs on about their great new set of forks being great compared to the old ones.

The thing is with wiper seals, you probably cant tell if they are past their best and starting to degrade visually, so as a precaution you replace them. By the time they are past their best it could be too late and crap starts to enter and damage the forks.

I tend to take the pragmatic view that whilst not necessary, its prudent to change them every other oil change, if nothing else it only adds a couple more minutes to change them out whilst you've got them apart anyway.

Treat them a bit like car servicing where you have minor and major services. You wouldn't necessarily change the fuel filter every minor service, only at major services.

Oh re. TFT I've used them for parts and they've been spot on, quick to respond and the people there genuinely know what they're on about.

The guy complaining earlier in the thread - you really should have gone back to them to get it sorted, it sounds like a pain but I would be surprised if they didn't sort you out even if you had only discussed it on the phone with them - makes sense to write stuff down to avoid these errors for future, but it's easy not to. Mainly this will stop people popping up on threads like this questioning their good name. As I said, they should have got it right, but everywhere makes mistakes and a one off can be rectified.

I used to use Loco and he was brilliant, sorted stuff and went out of his way.

I now use Rick at Slick & Slide who is even more helpful (if possible) and has gone well out of his way to sort stuff for me at the drop of a hat. I'll therefore be going nowhere else for the foreseeable.

On a slightly related note, how easy is changing the wiper seal without the right tools on a newer Pike?

Seals pop out with a big screwdriver or tyre lever, not difficult

For refitting, a 35mm Unior Seal toolf for about a tenner is a great thing to have. Slot the new seal onto the tool, sit tool into the lowers/bushing, and tap it home. Goes in straight, nothing gets folded or damaged.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xunior+seal+tool.TRS0&_nkw=unior+seal+tool&_sacat=0

There is a serious amount of sexual tension between Rayban and TJ.