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why are most bikes coming with such short/low headtubes?
long and low is not what tall people need in a bike frame.
You can always make them higher with stems/bars.Making them lower is more difficult (flat bars and negative stems on my 29ers and I'm 6'3).
I'd quite like a specialized but the head tubes are enormous on the xl.
Draw up what you want.
Get someone to make it for you.
i struggle to get the bars low enough on my bikes though, my last FS had to have a negative rise stem and still didn't feel low enough (6ft2")
infact i test rode a medium size Solaris last week and had to slam the stem on that, headtubes are too long!
surly have it right, longer headtubes on larger bikes. i dont want to run a high rise stem or a stack of spacers.
Ermmm......buy a Surly then?
eeerrmm, i might want something else, but because they all have low front ends, they are not suitable
Try a canyon spectral, head tube is massive! Put me off buying an XL, something like 175mm !
If you can make the front end of an XL or XXL stiff enough with a short head tube then I don't see the downside of a low front end. If you're very tall and/or like a higher front end then run the stem higher up the steerer tube, use a stem with rise and use riser bars. You can always make handlebars higher you can't do the reverse.
I'm with you on this one ton, what we really need though isn't longer head tubes it's longer forks to get the height under the bike IMHO. <edit> without altering the angles shortening the bike and so on </edit>
Also the fact the size range for a "large" bike now is actually aimed at medium sized people, 5'10" is not large, its bang on the middle of the bell curve.
If it fits since one of medium height is medium sized, doesn't matter that is got a 9" 19" or 29" seat tube. It's a medium.and also what is an effective seat tube? The seat tube is only really 17" but we'll call it an effective 20" and xl, only it won't fit because now they [xl people] need a 700mm seat post to achieve a reasonable ride height. So we'll just say the xl is for a height range of 5'11"to 6'3"
chiefgrooveguru - Member
If you can make the front end of an XL or XXL stiff enough with a short head tube then I don't see the downside of a low front end. If you're very tall and/or like a higher front end then run the stem higher up the steerer tube, use a stem with rise and use riser bars
Surely that huge steerer, stem and bars will then get rid of all the stiffness you're taking about though?
Or an XL Specialized. Head tube lengths are generally 10mm taller than Surly's by the looks of things 😀
I am 5'10 on a large Specialized and hate the headtube on it. It is enormous and makes it difficult to get the front end low enough. If someone wants the front taller on a bike there are options for them- spacers, stems with a rise, higher bars. If you want it lower there are no options, so it makes sense to have a smaller, prettier, lighter headtube and let tall people use the options available to raise the front if they wish.
Length is problematic, I understand it's tricky but frames grow from 44 cm to 60 odd in height, but length drops by just 10 cm. every bike I own is too long if it's right for my leg length.
Pet hate at the moment is same width handlebars whatever the size of the frame. Can anyone really think that someone riding an XS frame is going to need the same size handlebars as someone riding an XL?
I'd argue for the opposite to the OP. I'm 6ft3, my Nukeproof mega is built with a Ragley stem as its one of the lowest stack stems I could find, I'd go lower if I could but its on a flat top cap as it is. My Ridley road bike is the same, got a 10deg drop stem flat on the top cap to get it as low as I'd like it. How anyone can ride a specialised roubaix/secteur I don't know, the headtubes are ridiculously over long for the frame sizes.
Personally, and I standby to be flamed here, I believe that fashion has over-taken design.
In a far from exhaustive review, I'm seeing bikes today with toptube and stem lengths +/- 1% of very highly thought of bikes from 3/4 years ago, but suddenly riders are moaning they're too short and going up a size, even two. What's changed? Whats with the need to be laid out like Superman in full flight?
One person whines, and all the mfrs are crap.
Those mfrs who are in business making bikes that sell.
🙄
Al, they sell because that is all there is, unless you go custom.
Whats with the need to be laid out like Superman in full flight
Christ on a bike I thought we'd done this already.Seat to bar distance is staying the same on the 'longer' bikes by having a longer tt but shorter (50mm or less) stem.Increases wheelbase and front centre length.
OK give me a few examples of all these bikes then.
Al, pinnacle ramin 1. xl 19.5 frame with a tiny 120mm headtube
I personally like the newer way...at 5'9"(and a bit) with 27" inside leg, I have always found it hard to get a bike to fit properly...small for my legs and the top tube is too short plus the wheelbase is then too short. Medium/large feels a lot better but then I find I cant get the seat low enough for my liking when the need arises.
I normally resort to finding frames that are large and have the seat tubed braced from the top tube....I simply just cut the seat tube to the height I want and remove any signs of the brace where it meets the top tube.
The result is a 15"(or thereabouts) seatube on a large framed bike.
winner winner chicken dinner
It's amazing. In the time I've had one fantastic big, off the peg bike that fits me brilliantly and rides better than anything else I've been on, ton has been through half the bikes on the market, bought and sold them and still isn't happy.
If you want something specific that's different to what's sold, have the balls to get it made and enjoy it.
That Ramin is so small. Tried one and gutted it was to small but is was like a little toy bike.
Time to drop Nicolai a line?
Christ on a bike I thought we'd done this already.Seat to bar distance is staying the same on the 'longer' bikes by having a longer tt but shorter (50mm or less) stem.Increases wheelbase and front centre length.
Well a lot of people have been running 50mm stems for the last 10 years. I'm all for options but people talk about the silly long top tubes as if they're the only option worth considering, they're not.
TooTall - MemberIt's amazing. In the time I've had one fantastic big, off the peg bike that fits me brilliantly and rides better than anything else I've been on, ton has been through half the bikes on the market, bought and sold them and still isn't happy.
If you want something specific that's different to what's sold, have the balls to get it made and enjoy it.
tootall. that is because you are a boring sat on the fence type of ****er.
I bet you have toast every morning for brekkie, and sex every Wednesday, for 3 minutes on the dot......... 😀
why are most bikes coming with such short/low headtubes?
I'm presuming its because of bigger wheels / longer travel forks becoming standard now, hence the need to counter the increased stack height, relative to older 26" shorter travel frames.
It's because I found the bike I thought would work for me, managed to test ride it, bought it and rode it. Still riding it.
Given you've mostly lived in the same town, eaten chips and drank beer for 40+ years, you're a fine one to talk about boring and habits. Your perpetual bike-buying does amuse me tho.
I think I may have touched a nerve there old boy....maybe
I've got a fiver on thebiglad......
Tootall for me. Clean RAF Chap fight versus yorkshire yobbo 😉
That Ramin is a suspension corrected 29er, the pic I've seen has the bars pretty close in height to the saddle, seems reasonable to me.
Well a lot of people have been running 50mm stems for the last 10 years. I'm all for options but people talk about the silly long top tubes as if they're the only option worth considering, they're not.
Well, it is if it's what you prefer.
I'm 6ft and really don't see the point in riding a 20" frame, I could happily ride frames with 17" seat tubes, yet that's all manufacturers are making with 620mm+ top tubes so I'm riding with a slammed reverb.
IMO, a lot of bike designs have gone from 110, to 90, 70, 50, to 35mm stems, but top tubes haven't kept up.
£5 on the tall one, if Ton's right then he'll be full of pent up frustration ahead of tonight.
Al, it is ok seeing one, but I have bought and ridden one. for a xl bike it is far too small.
I know you work in the bike industry, and I am not saying that you don't know your onions, but sometimes the customer is actually right.
Luke, me or tootall...ppff, mere bagatelle.
The bikes are made for the masses and averages . All you posters on here are quite clearly freaks of nature and my mental picture is one of an orangutan riding a bike .
my mental picture is one of an orangutan riding a bike .
think more silverback..... 😆
In a mass produced market, you can't expect minority desires like yours to be met ton.
You are right for you, for sure, that's not the same as "what I want isn't getting made and it's the manufacturers' fault".
scotroutes - Member - Quote
Draw up what you want.Get someone to make it for you.
Ok to wade in on this.
I cant find the bike I want/ can afford in one go. (spesh enduro 29er would do but its not perfect).
So I decided to make my own frame, I'm into year two and could have bought the bike I want. But getting there and it will be awesome when riding home built bike.
I noticed at core bike that a lot of manufactures had stopped doing xl bikes. I asked them why. They tried to convince me that the large fitted people from 5ft10 to over 6ft4.
A 100mm stem really doesn't work on a xl 29er.
I tried a large kinesis ff29 but it was far too small for me (6ft3)
euro bike companies seem to be the place to look if you need a true xl bike,
cube, ghost, rose and merida all do a proper xl and xxl bike.
my cube ltd 29 is a xxl 23''
I remember having a certain branded ti hardtail with a 150mm head tube and it felt god aweful to steer, shame as it was the best floaty feeling ti feel from a frame I ever owned.
sold!
Maybe if you are on the lookout for a dead handling frame with vague steering then I'm sure a custom ht or just scout round for xl sized full suss brands for around the 140mm-150mm length in the head tube dept.
I work with a 6'7" guy - we had loads of fun adjusting his first Claude Butler roadbike anywhere near a slightly decent fit (it is still awful TBH).
He is now on the slippery n+1 slope. Specialized appears to be the only UK brand that is anywhere near his size. Have been telling him Netherlands is the place to go but not much help when he wants it on B2W. Noticed that Merida UK stopped at 58cm, whilst NL had same bike in a 60cm.
[quote=damascus ]I noticed at core bike that a lot of manufactures had stopped doing xl bikes. I asked them why. They tried to convince me that the large fitted people from 5ft10 to over 6ft4.
A 100mm stem really doesn't work on a xl 29er.
I tried a large kinesis ff29 but it was far too small for me (6ft3)
Gotta feel a bit of pity for the manufacturers given that the fashion for the past 10 years or so has been for tall folk to ride bikes that were much smaller than the manufacturers recommended (hora et al.). They must have got fed up doing small runs of XL sized bikes and even then not selling them.
It's the taller/larger sizes that seem to get increasingly screwy geo too. I was looking at the Cube Stereo when the current version came out. Big thing that started the alarm bells ringing as that even though each size went up in seat tube and headtube length in normal increments, the wheelbase barely changed. If I recall correctly 7mm between the 20" and the 22" frame. I stopped looking at it then.
The problem with some of the euro bike frames is from xl to xxl the seat tube dimension gose up an inch yet the top tube only increases half an inch.
Find the same with jeans/trousers 38" decent leg length, 40" shorter leg length than 38s?
Actually find the geo on the 21.5" scandal spot on.
There's plenty bikes out there big enough, and too big, for the OP. He's a serial shopper and complainer.
The choice is limited at the bigger end of the bike market, but there's bikes out there. When living in the UK I let a few fellas my size and bigger test ride my big bikes and they were all comfortable (or didn't actually need something as big as they thought).
FWIW, ton, IIRC I'm not too dissimilar to you in height (6'5") and it hacks me off when bikes have really long head tubes - my Swift's is 135mm and if I ride it with suspension fork, that makes the front end too high unless I use a negative rise stem.
120mm is pretty much exactly right for me on most frames (along with a 25 - 25.5" ETT)
There's plenty bikes out there big enough, and too big, for the OP. He's a serial shopper and complainer.
can you please point out where in my post, that i said that there were no bikes big enough for me.
my bike front is sorted for now, and both my bikes were bought because they are suitable for someone my size.
also while i am on, you seem to have a problem TooTall, whith my bike buying........are you jealous, you stalking bastard?
jealous of a fat northern bloke, who can buy what bike he wants, whenever he wants, and as many times as he wants.
mm what shall i choose next... 😆
alreet alreet calm daaawn. 😮
Who won the fight? There was a fight, wasn't there..?
pinnacle ramin 1. xl 19.5 frame with a tiny 120mm headtube
For a 6'3 rider with av proportions and the saddle up, 20mm of spacers, a fork around ~495mm, it's about 40mm saddle to bar drop. The Ramin 1 is a bit lower as it's rigid, maybe 60mm drop.
We've made the Ramin 1 and B+ head tubes a bit longer for next year, to suit rigid forks better. That's going against what most people seem to want on a 29er though, a common comment is that the fronts are too high. Personally I've never wanted a bar to be lower than a bike will allow, but often higher.