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I went to the Alps last year and found my SLX brakes just weren't powerful enough - considering upgrading to Saints for this years trip. Before doing so what are the alternatives providing the same stopping power?
Could try the new Hope Fanboi V6 Evos?
Only £700 but will last several millenia with minimal servicing using the easily sourced parts.
Great "feel" too. Less "on / off" than shimano...... 🙂 🙂
Someone has to... But, SLX should have shitloads of power unless they're the first gen, which were a bit more average. These days hardly any brakes really lack power.
One of the mags did some dyno testing and IIRC Deore and Formula R0 were the most powerful, but I think that was before the latest Saint came out.
My XT are worse than my SLX but fine for the Alps. The Zee on my DH bike were a bit better though.
What size rotors are you using?
On a serious note. I had the same situation in the Alps on Xt's so upgraded to Zees which I find much better. Any reason you need saints over zees?
Obvious alternative is Zee. I've joyfully used them for two years now and I'm sure you'll get others on here saying similar things.
SLX should have shitloads of power
I previously had Formula RX brakes that had loads of power but no modulation - The SLX brakes have loads of modulation but not the power. I want both power & modulation.
Any reason you need saints over zees?
Zees - No easy lever adjustment
Which SLX are they? TBH most of those models are the other way round, for the recent ones if it's got a lot of lever and not much power it'd suggest a service issue to me...
Codes? Whatever the confusingly named Hope big brake is? Formula The One/T1 might be worth checking out? I'm a slight fanboi but I have a set on the fatbike, they used to be on my XC race bike, before that they were on my downhill bike, and another set on the #enduro bike, and they've pretty much ruled in every job. They don't have a powerful feel, if you know what I mean- they're very progressive, they don't have that "rode into a wall" feel, but they have plenty of power on tap when you ask for it.
They can be pretty cheap now, only downer is parts are expensive.
Fit some zee/saint calipers to your levers?
Buy some near mint condition Code Rs with 4 spare sets of Brand New Pads off me... selling because they're too powerful for me!
Fit some zee/saint calipers to your levers?
One option I'm considering
Do you often wind the lever in and out mid-ride?
Not being sarky, I just always wind them in as far as they go and then never adjust again.
Do you often wind the lever in and out mid-ride?
In the Alps
Not being sarky, I just always wind them in as far as they go and then never adjust again.
That's how I have mine, nobody else I ride with gets it.
In the Alps
Not trying to sound like my seven-year-old daughter here... but why?
Not being sarky, I just always wind them in as far as they go and then never adjust again.
Same here, not like reach changes with altitude 😕
Saints here, massive overkill on my HT but I do ride BPW, Antur, FoD etc so I think I'm allowed.
Feel is great, no Shimano ' on off' cliches, I think one piston hits the rotor slightly ahead of the other one helping modulation if thats a big deal for you.
I'm XT on all my proper bikes. Mk1 Saints were amazing. Decent pads and big enough rotors on XT shouldn't be a problem unless you're a dragger?
Feel is great, no Shimano ' on off' cliches, I think one piston hits the rotor slightly ahead of the other one helping modulation if thats a big deal for you.
I've just sold a set because of the hateful lack of modulation. I thought my wife was being a drama queen, but they are nasty, grabby things, even worse than other Shimano's due to the huge amounts of power.
No wonder you see stories of ghetto mods, people trying different compound pads either side, filing out sections of the pads, etc, to try and make them feel less like a light switch.
They are probably the worst Shimano's I've ever used.
I'd suggest some of the DH brakes from anyone else, if you must have outright power.
I have just switched from Zees to Hope Tech 3 with E4 calipers. Initially i thought "where the hell is the power" then shortly thereafter "yep there it is". They took a bit of getting used to after running Shimano for so long but they are fantastic.
Pricey i know but for me a very worthwhile investment.
Magura MT5/MT7
Enduro mag and a few others have really rated them. Lighter than Saints, better modulating yet have the same amount of outright power.
Here is what enduro mag said
"There is a lot of new innovation in the Magura MT5, perhaps most notably its new magnetiXchange replacement pads that magically lock themselves into the correct location. As the Magura’s use Royal Blood mineral oil, bleeding is also a less toxic affair than some, and a simple process. The MT5 brake comes standard with two organic brake pads per caliper, but these are also compatible with the four individual pads from the more expensive MT7 brake. The only thing we missed was tool-less reach adjustment (they require a T25 torx key), and it has to be pointed out that the excitingly named “Carbotecture” lever clamp material looks a little cheap, as do the fast threaded clamp screws. However, some of our testers liked the utilitarian look and we could certainly not fault the performance. We liked that the lever can be mounted on either side and found the long blade was easy to locate in a comfortable position. The ergonomic aluminium lever has space for one- or two-finger braking. However, with power like this, using two fingers would be like riding into a wall.
During testing, braking torque and deceleration were brutal – but there was a delicate sensitivity present too, like a rhino in ballet shoes. The Carbotecture fibre composite material is certainly light, offering almost Saint-rivalling performance, but at a big weight and cost savings. Throughout the tests they proved reliable and the lever bite point did not shift once; again and again they provided dependable stopping power. Magura have shown that you can have it all, and with a five-year warranty, they take the Best in Test award with ease."
I went from XT to Saints with XT levers and they are much more powerful with some nice modulation. I used them in a 6 week trip in France last year and they preformed excellently. Heaps of power and modulation even on long 1900m down hills. One thing was I did go through several sets of organic brake pads, but that is the trade off for good braking!
Only thing i note on the Saints is that being "DH" targeted, the std pads are pretty hard. This means they need a bit of heat in them to really work well, so if you mince along not using them, the first few pulls can be pretty lame (compared to the retardation at the same lever load when they are properly hot).
You can easily fix this by experimenting with different pad types, although it is a trade off of course, and softer pads will not be as capable of withstanding real heavy duty work.
BTW, for brakes:
Brake Torque = Lever load x hydraulic ratio x friction co-efficient x mean pad radius (~half disc diameter)
Where as Brake Power is a lot more complicated as it includes thermal transfer co-efficients etc!
Most people want lots of nicely adjustable brake torque, only a few, who actually ride DH or live in places with 1000's of meters of continuous descent need lots of brake power..... 😉
I ragged my Saints for three weeks in the alps last summer and I found pads to be the biggest variable.
Normally run Superstar pads on all my bikes at home, including DH at Inners, Ae, Fort William etc and they've always been fine, but they don't cut the mustard in the alps. Brake fade was horrendous. Switched to the proper Shimano finned pads and the difference was night and day. Zero fade and consistent power.
BoardinBob - Member
I ragged my Saints for three weeks in the alps last summer and I found pads to be the biggest variable.Normally run Superstar pads on all my bikes at home, including DH at Inners, Ae, Fort William etc and they've always been fine, but they don't cut the mustard in the alps. Brake fade was horrendous. Switched to the proper Shimano finned pads and the difference was night and day. Zero fade and consistent power.
what superstar pad compound and rotor size where you using? got a couple of weeks in the alps this summer and want to get my saints alps ready
203mm front and back with Superstar Organics
203mm front and back with Superstar Organics
Hmm, that was my plan. Seems like a rethink might be in order! assuming it was the organic shimanos you were using?
assuming it was the organic shimanos you were using?
"metal" pads so whatever that is in Shimano's world
Not sure why no one is considering the Maguras, considering all the rave reviews. The Saints and Zees have been slammed in a lot of them for being way too grabby.
http://enduro-mtb.com/en/back-issue-grouptest-six-of-the-best-disc-brakes/
http://reviews.mtbr.com/review-magura-mt7-brakes
http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/05/18/review-maguras-mighty-mt7-4-piston-hydraulic-brakes/