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I’ve got a Cannondale caad12 105 disc which has 105 deraillurs / equivalent non series hydraulic brake lever shifters and a combo of post and flat mount brake Calipers.
So far I really like the brakes - they are a massive improvement on the rim brakes on previous road bikes - but the shifters drove me up the wall.
If you so much as catch / touch the main brake lever as you go to shift to a harder gear the shifter just swings uselessly with nothing happening. I use the bike mostly for commuting so always have gloves on and it’s really easy to slightly touch the brake lever as you shift the gear lever inside it.
Prior to this I had a Rival 10 speed double tap setup and I loved the way it shifted. It always felt more mechanical and snappy with none of this lever nonsense. That said the Shimano holds are more comfy.
Is this something that is shifter specific - with these hydraulic sti’s or is it Shimano specific?
If Shimano I’d love to swap to Sram but probably can’t justify the cost......
All my Shimano shifters (15+ years' worth, none hydraulic) have been like that. You learn to be less ham-fisted after a bit 😉
As Bez, this is something that will either sort itself with practice or you’ll decide that you hate Shimano levers and buy SRAM road only. The ergonomics of the levers are quite different. I love SRAM MTB stuff but can’t get on with their road levers at all.
If you think mechanically, the upshift and downshift are trying to move the cable in opposite directions so possibly shouldn’t be a surprise that nothing really happens!
I think most Shimano riders use their third and pinky fingers on the upshift.
Nope, index or middle finger here, occasionally ring finger. Never thought to use my little finger.
I do agree with Bez though - you'll either get used to it or switch (which will also mean new brakes). I can't stand SRAM double tap levers, but I've used STIs since I started riding, so it's a similar thing to you - going to a lever system that's less familiar.
I do agree with Bez though – you’ll either get used to it or switch (which will also mean new brakes). I can’t stand SRAM double tap levers, but I’ve used STIs since I started riding, so it’s a similar thing to you – going to a lever system that’s less familiar.
+1 to all of that. Can't say I've ever found it to be an issue.
It’s an odd one - I’d had tiagra and 105 shifters on previous bikes and don’t remember it being an issue - the newest of those was a Caad9 105 from quite a few years back. I got a Boardman Team Carbon in about 2011 and that had the double tap setup. Initially I was sceptical about it but it worked fantastically well with barely any adjustment required. All I did was clean / replace the chain and cassette when required.
I’ve had the new shifters for almost a year now of commuting 2-3 times a week and I’m still getting annoyed with these Shimano shifters. Maybe I’ve got less flexibility in my hands or something is at a slightly angle in these.
If it was just an sti swap I’d be well up for that, but it’s brakes as well as mineral oil vs dot fluid. Do Shimano mechs okay nicely with sram shifters or so they have a different pull ratio? It’s 2x11 gearing.
The cable pull and pull ratio between SRAM and Shimano road stuff is different, you can't mix them. Nowadays you can't even mix road and MTB derailleurs and shifters even if you stay in the same brand.
In my experiene all Shimano STIs have been like this, I got a Rival 1 groupset a year ago and I too love the very "clicky" feel.
A stronger spring in the rear derailleur might help somewhat. Usually there are two different settings for the cage spring tension on Shimano road RDs, try the stronger setting first, it's free after all. I did it recently on an old Tiagra RD and it made the shifter feel a bit more "clicky" and "responsive", slightly harder to move.
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/rear-derailleur-overhaul
Or you could go with an Ultegra RX derailleur that has a cluch, that would also make the main lever a bit harder to move, and clutch RDs are awesome.
I'd be trying a different model/design of Shimano STI before going any further. As you say, maybe it's a reach/hand position thing.
Definitely a hand position and practice thing I think. Similarly to njee being freaked out by my habit, using my primary fingers to operate the Shimano upshift blows my mind. The way my hand lies, it’s just natural to go for third and pinky for me, result is my brake is always covered which may also help explain why I’ve never really come across the problem...
I disagree. Right now I have my friends bike here with a Tiagra 10spd groupset and my bike with a Rival 1.
Even the sound the SRAM shifter makes is SO MUCH louder than the Shimano one. The Shimano is quiet and feels soft while the SRAM makes a huge bang when you click it. Also don't forget that when shifting up the cassette with SRAM there are two clicks because of Double Tap, with Shimano it's only one.
Doesn't matter how I hold the brifter, what fingers I use, the SRAM feels a 100x more "tactile". Some people like this, some don't.
Just like the word ‘brifter’ 🤢
Have you got the bulbous 105 shifters, I had those and they were awful for this, but the higher end 785 ones are much better?
I'm very sorry for using that word. I hope you're okay, no serious injuries.
I'll call them STi next time as in SRAM Total Integration.
As djglover, i tried a set of rs505 shifters on a demo bike, they looked bloody awful though i could easily forgive that as they were the most comfortable lever for sitting on the hoods I'd ever ridden but found i did this a bit when shifting*. I've ended up with the ?ultegra equivalent? Rs685 to go on mine when my bars and freehub (bloomin road 11 not fitting a standard hub grrr) turn up.
*i wasn't on it long enough to say kit not rider but never had it before on shimano brifters.
I've never even noticed that regardless of glove choice, but my bikes are all either 7800 or doubletap so maybe it's a quirk of the ergonomics of the hydraulic shifters?
@djglover I think I have got the shifters you are referring to with the huge hoods and a bulge out the side where the bleed port is. Maybe a better Shimano shifter would be better then - perhaps the ones I have are a bit too sensitive. Maybe I need to try some different Shimano ones on another bike to compare.
@hollyboni- I agree I just preferred the sram stuff all round - other than the hoods being a bit small to rest on. I have sram gx 11 speed / guides on both my MTBs.
I have Tiagra and I don't think this has ever happned. I test road 105 dydro which was i think brifter experience. It might have taken 20 minutes to settle down butthen it was fine
Now maybe my gloves aren't that thick but surely the trick is keep your fingr close to the bar and just catch the end of the paddle
Shimano 105 hydraulic user here, never had any problems with this even with thick winter gloves. I’ve always used Shimano though so must be used to the feeling. Index finger for me. I don’t think I’ve caught the brake whilst changing gear. Might just need practice before spending out on new levers.
I mean in terms of practice I’ve commuted 2-3 times a week for almost a year on the bike. Plus a couple of 40k ish summer rides.
It’s not like I’m pulling the brake lever a bit - merely slightly rubbing it / brushing against it as I go to pull the paddle. Doesn’t seem to take any pressure at all.
It’s annoying me - but perhaps not £600 annoying me!
I used to have campag stis on my old road bike. Man, they were nice to use. I've got R685s now, and they're fine. I think I know what you mean by the phantom lever swing, but had it very rarely.
You could upgrade your lever(s)..? (Only [url= https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-st-rs685-hydraulic-sti-levers-pair-107200.html ]£250quids[/url] 🙂 )
It’s not like I’m pulling the brake lever a bit – merely slightly rubbing it / brushing against it as I go to pull the paddle. Doesn’t seem to take any pressure at all.
Have to say that sounds odd: Either there is a problem or you are remarkably ham-fisted. Shimano is certainly less agricultural than campag/SRAM but I've never ever had that sort of issue. You still have to press the lever to make it change.
I’m pretty ham fisted I’m sure - maybe that’s why I like sram because it’s very positive / clunks as you shift. I find Shimano a bit too light / vague.
It definitely doesn’t take much pressure at all to get a phantom swing as someone above called it. Perfect description.
£250 for a shifter upgrade that may or
May not help is a bit risky (if they were in stock even). I’m going to have a look at the mech as someone suggested above to see if it has different spring tension settings - a bit more of a positive shift would be nice.
What would a Shimano front lever be like if used 1x, would the lack of cable tension create a nasty floppy rattle?
What would a Shimano front lever be like if used 1x, would the lack of cable tension create a nasty floppy rattle?
You could always fit a short run of cable and crimp it tight.
Funny thing is reading this I have 105 shifters on my bike a really couldnt tell you what I do to change gear!! 🤔
It might be worth trying someone else bike or calling into an LBS to get it looked at. I'm really sure that I'm not great at this stuff and my setup just doesn't do this in use
I just had a play with my bike not in use. I see your point now. If the break lever is pushed over then you can't achieve a down shift (I don't ever remember this happening on this bike). But I have to really move the brake lever. With my hand on the hoods I'd say that I have to push the brake lever at least a 1 cm before I can't get a down shift. In other words it's quite a movement. Maybe Tiagra is less sensitive? It's possible it did happen on a test ride with 105. Bit that was first go with Shimano Sti on a road bike
I suffer this a little so it's not just you. Mine are RS505 which I think is what you're describing. My other road bike is di2, so I don't have anything recent to compare this with.
scruff
Member
What would a Shimano front lever be like if used 1x, would the lack of cable tension create a nasty floppy rattle?
it's fine, just zip-tie/tape/elastic band (doesn't need much, just to stop it moving) the shift lever to the brake lever, had this on my CX bike for 'a while', never an issue
Obviously if you're running 1x you connect your lh lever to your dropper post 😀
What you need, OP, is Di2 - obvz
Di2 or etap! If only I had the funds that I could justify on it. For a mainly commuter bike it’s just not going to happen right now.....
I very occasionally get this (mechanical brakes, 11sp 105) but don't find it much of an issue to slide my fingers back a bit and repeat the shift.
Alternatively could you position your fingers behind the shifter and move them forward until you hit the shift lever, then nudge the rear edge of it?
I could try that to see if it reduces some of the phantom shifts. It doesn’t even have to happen that often - just occasionally and it winds me up. I think I was spoiled by my last shifters.
I tried to do it this morning with my 685s and they don't. I think I remembered it from my old canti STIs.
Problems with sram and Shimano? There’s a Campagnolo for that.
I started having the same issue on shimano 105 hydraulic shifters recently - it was driving me mad!
Turned out it was old grease built up on the shifter pawls. Gave it a good few hosing outs with wd40 and relubed it and it's like new again.
@granlaw - thanks for that - I’ll have a look in the shifter and see if I can flush it through.
I was playing about with the shifters last night on my commute home and there’s barely any pressure on the brake lever required to create the phantom swing of the shift lever.
Sounds very similar-good luck!
RJ the Bike Guy has right skanky nails.
@dezb- doesn’t he just!
I had the same problem on a new bike with Ultegra 10s shifters. It was bad enough getting ghost shifts riding with bare hands, even worse with full finger gloves on. Shimano replaced them straight away and the replacements were perfect.