[Closed] Shimano cleats - how do they work (Time ATAC content)

I'm not an expert on bio-mechanics but the amount of float inherent in the Time/CB engagement systems has always been presented as far more knee friendly than the Shimano 'lock you in but adjust the release tension' approach?

As above, you get less float with Shimano so it’s unlikely to help your knees. At more common to go the other way. Shimanos are locked in place, they just don’t have the same amount of float

wwaswas - me neither, but concave wearing of my shoe soles (always occurs over time with Time/CB, cleats that wear pretty quick, worn pedal, may, possibly allowing too much movement & causing me issues. Exploring the big S's take in shoe pedal interface retention. Not interested in sole savers.

Not interested in sole savers.

For a particular reason?

Had some really useful input from the guy in a bike shop today. I think if shoes & Time are new then all's good, but, Times wear shoe soles, my cleats don't last too long, and the whole time system when worn may allow more unwanted movement than designed for.

I've tried sole savers, in time they bend to the concave shape of my worn show sole, so don't take up the slack. I also find them a bit kinda "slippery" with the metal of the sprung bar pushing against a bit of stainless steel sheet.

fair do's.

I've filled worn soles with epoxy before using sole savers in the past but I can understand your concern re: worn cleats allowing extra movement.

I think the thing with Shimano is because there's zero float the only time the pedal rubs on the shoe is as you engage/disengage the cleat.

Couple of points,
1. Shimano cleats do have float, around 4 degrees I think.. it's less then Time but they are not 100% locked in.
2. there are plenty of knee problems that can be helped by controlling the plane of the knee movement. It can sometimes require some set-up but it can be a good thing.

The interface also rests on the rubber soles resting on the side lugs of the pedal, although the cleat is held down differently so the arms don't rub against the sole.
I do find that the pedal can develop side to side play with the shoe, especially the XT and above pedals can wear on those plates, which then require new pedals.

I used to use Time pedals, went Shimano with no issues, then tried Time again, but found the shoe was resting on the arms, which were wearing the underside of the shoe, rather than resting on the side lugs. Putting a sole protector would make this worse as it will lift the rubber soles further away from the pedal, and you will be riding on ice with the metal to metal interface of the sole protector to arms.

Just been for a play in the garage, my current rather well used set up, when clipped in can rock side to side creating about 7mm of lift between shoe sole and pedal. This isn't lateral float, this is the shoe rocking on the pedal. Surely this can't be good for my old knees. I think I may dip into the world of SPD with a M8000 race pedal & try that on my current shoes initially, then maybe upgrade to a Terraduro later.

qwerty, pick up a pair of M520's for £20, they all feel the same so this'll give you a chance to try with little outlay. And if you like them they last forever anyway!

Probably a very good idea ^

My 2p.

Initially I used TIME, then CB, and now shimano.

Time and CB work and feel pretty much the same, I found time would release the cleat if pulling up hard enough (seemed limited to certain pedal/shoe combinations so possibly the cleats bed into a certain pedal?) but other than that they were broadly the same.

Shimano do have nominally less float, but it's not restrictive. With Time/CB the shoe starts to engage against the spring almost immediately then finally releases at 17 degrees or whatever, but by that point your pressing quite hard. Shimano float pretty freely as the cleat pushes down on the pedal body, then you float upto the edge, there's a click and you're out.

The downside of shimano is it get's clogged with ice more frequently if you get off and push in the snow (a swift kick usually clears it). I've not really noticed any difference when riding in mud.

The other advantage is Shimano pedals are made of steel and last pretty much forever with no change in their characteristics. I've killed shoes quicker than I've worn out shimano cleats. Time/CB are made of brass and last months, or less if it's winter and you're picky about things like remaining clipped in and being able to unclip!

I used to have knee problems and now I don't. I didn't swap to shimano with that in mind, I just got fed up with maintaining Crank Brothers and Time pedals but the problems have not come back (but I've changed other things as well so it's not a scientific test).

M520 on most bikes, m540 on nice bikes. XT/XTR are a step backwards in reliability terms.

Some people like platform pedals, I can't stand them, I really don't see the point in them and just a load of negatives. Restricted float, not as efficient (part of the point of spd's was to eliminate the soft rubber sole sapping energy), harder to clip in/out.

Recently swapped from 2-bolt Time ATACs to 3-bolt Time Xpro10s, been having knee issues since starting to do a few longer hilly rides. Touch wood, I think I've solved my issues by heavily pointing the Xpro cleat at my big toes (I have quite heavily bow legs from walking from ~6 months old, which apparently is quite young, toes pointing out more than ankle), plus increasing the q-factor by using the "left cleat" on the right shoe and vice versa.

Also had to tweak saddle height to get a ~30 degree bend at the bottom of the pedal stroke between hip/knee and ankle in typical "ankle high" flexion for me, 1mm of saddle height roughly changes bend angle by ~1 degree (which kind of surprised me TBH).

Thanks for the food for thought all. M520 pedals ordered - i'll see how they fare.

I could never get out of Time Atacs!

New Road Time pedals are the easiest to get out off ironically.

Time pedals go on forever!  And the brass cleats are designed to wear, rather than the pedal itself. But m520s Will be all that's left after nuclear Armageddon, do you makes yer choice on that one I think.  I don't know what maintenance you can even do to s time atac?

I switched to time as I found I was regularly accidentally unclipping from Shimano pedals as I moved around on the bike. And they didn't clogin the Bristol mud like Shimano.

I love my times,mostly picked up second hand and none ever seen any maintenance

Just for a bit of an update, i've recorded the Time rock here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/u5CmDJzkHuwdveXA9

it's not the best clip, but you get the idea. The pedal bars wear the shoe sole & worn cleats exacerbate this movement. This won't be remedied fully by new cleats. I'm no expert, but this amount of movement in this plane can't be good, its definitely not "float" in my book.

I've fitted some M520 and had a short ride along the canal (too hot to venture out right now!), the pedals definitely do not rock on the shoe like the Times, they definitely do have float, the shoe pedal contact point seems much bigger & planted than the Times & obviously the M520 have a mechanical feel to entry & exit.

The Shimanos are new pedals & cleats on the old shoes, they seem an improvement, but need a few outing yet to decide. I hope this is my knee niggle ID'd.

I think the sides of your shoe’s sole, the yellow bits either side of the clear bay, are worn down.
If they weren’t the shoe wouldn’t rock on the pedal - no?

The sides of the discount sole should sit on the pedal body either side of the bars.

But if £20 of Shimano has sorted it, fair enough.