[Closed] sheffield wildlife forum drive horrid flat bridleways through rivelin

It's hard to argue against giving more access

There's plenty more trails to choose from

fair point. It's just bitterly disappointing to have something re-classified as a bridleway and then turned from interesting to featureless. and ugly.

and I really dont see why they have to be sooooo wide. Its not as if it would be hard to walk up if they were 3 feet wide. I could drive my car down them now

and another thing (rants). they could have 'improved' the footpaths which are dedicated to walkers and left the bridleways more interesting. as it is the footpaths are still prone to get waterlogged and muddy

I know they have done the bit going up hill from the lodge lane car park, and the bit from the byway to the middle of lodge lane and the first bit from rivelin reservoir.

Is there more? They have not connected the bits in-between have they?

<i> upgraded and widened with a £5,000 grant from Viridor Credits environmental company</i>

otherwise known as our money...

The middle track was the same as always last night

I presume this is on a right of way not permisive bridleway, in which case the city council who decide on what its going to be width wise.

yes, I was talking about the latest change in the bit from lodge lane up the hill. the council may have the final say on the width but none of this would have happened without the sheffield wildlife trust. They are not getting a penny from me for grenoside now, can you imagine what they could do to the bike tracks?

check out the improvements to the drive up to the house under Rivelin rocks and that's through a sssi.

there has been a load of aggregate parked in a layby to the side of Rivelin valley, I suspect that's for a bit of improvement too.

I've no idea who is in charge of all this down at the council but their plans seem to be a little odd. I guess they made it clear what they thought of cyclists when they proposed opening tracks on the local landfill... but only when it closes and that's 2018 at the earliest.

and if you thought the wildlife trust had anything other than banishing mountain bikers and installing the minimum amount of family friendly routes in mind then you're a less cynical man than me.

Few for the moment then.....cheers Matt

does anyone know know if the sheffield wildlife trust have consulted any cyclists in the past? Do we have a group in Sheffield that could approach them with one voice? I did hear talk of a group that met a couple of times but I dont have or recall any details. It would be good to at least get our point of view across before they get a chance to repeat the vandalism elsewhere.

I think we hold a pretty good card of we can get organised, if sheffield MTBers dont support the Greno woods campaign it would start to look pretty shabby

Do we have a group in Sheffield that could approach them with one voice?

cough (ridesheffield) cough

if sheffield MTBers dont support the Greno woods campaign it would start to look pretty shabby

google: "steel city downhill" - it raised a few quid.

previous thread that links to a previous thread that has some interesting input

[url] http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/another-sheffield-bway-motorwayed [/url]

as i didn't go to the consultation meeting either i'm not sure on this point but i understood that sort of in exchange for loss of the interesting redmires rd / lodge moor bridleway to levelling to make safe for horsesthe sheffield wildlife would officially give the route down to rivelin thru fox hagg permissive bridleway status?

and the good news is that in ridesheffield we do now have a representative body but that doesn't stop the pressure that doesn't favour or especially understand mountain biking

edit ridesheffield facebook sign up here

[url]

and if you don't do facebook

[url] http://www.ridesheffield.com/ [/url]

When this was originally planned it was to be part of a full loop. Now thus has been done, making a real mess of good paths for all users. It'll be a bike race track now.
Also, they haven't simply opened up new paths, they've closed and rerouted some. What started out as great plans have become deeply unsatisfactory changes. Were ride Sheffield listened to? Dunno.

I rode it before they'd flattened it all down too, when it was still open - that surface is built on sharp broken glass, bottles and mirror shards in the aggregate.

Balls! that reminds me, there is a notice at the bottom of one of the footpaths that they were supposed to be upgrading to a bridalway as compensation for closing some of the fox hag ones, an upgrade that never happened. It didn't look too official and I know that there is supposed to be a no horse / bike notice at the top of it. I meant to check it out on my way home. I suppose its a good excuse to go for a quick spin.

Yeah its on the rivelin rocks path through that wood by the horse field

Any idea what it says?

Pook and (especially) Podge, you seem to do a lot of whining on here about your precious trails and the changes to them but neither of you seem to have put much effort into the coming to meetings or helping with the Ride Sheffield stuff. If you're really bothered rather than just being internet warriors then why don't you actually come and do something worthwhile? I know you, Podge, came to a couple of the early meetings but you were obstructive and then disappeared completely but then you whine and whine on here where no-one of any importance will actually read it.

We (Ride Sheffield) are actually giving up our own time and actually trying to do something about this is real life and we do actually seem to be getting somewhere.

Bad day Matthew?

Nope not at all, just sick of you lot whining but not actually bothering to do anything about it in real life.

Hmm.

As a volunteer on dig days, volunteer video producer for getting people involved in said dig days, active participant in any participative lobbying that has been required of the powers that be here in Sheffield, (led by Ride Sheffield generally), and above all responsible rider, I find your comments particularly fascinating.

And not really all that encouraging for people who may wish to join in with RideSheffield's work in the future. Your comments make them sound such friendly bunch (which I'd happily thought them until now).

Podge and I have simply raised a question about the upgrading of the path on the other side of the road - which seems to have been abandoned. Nosedive has pointed out the massive change to the trail which arguably wasn't necessary. I suggested that when ridden prior to being flattened, the aggregate they'd used contained broken glass. Perhaps something to watch out for.
I also question how much RS had been listened to.

Internet warrior? No. Interested in plans being followed through, yes. Worried about 'my precious trails'? No. Worried about plans which included bikes - the rivelin loop for example - being abandoned? Yes.

This is a perfect illustration of a group (MTBers) which is theoretically pulling in the same direction tearing itself apart.

Here you have two people who quite clearly care about the trails and the plans made being actively disenfranchised by the very group which is supposed to be encouraging unity within the mountain biking community.

Sad really. Perhaps you could have encouraged a positive participation as a whole rather than singling out Podge and myself for voicing concerns here where 'no-one of any importance will actually read it'. And in an open forum such as the Ride Sheffield meetings, Podge has every right to voice his opinion on matters biking in Sheffield - regardless of how 'obstructive' you may consider it. Is it that bikers are allowed a say in trail matters as long as it fits in with your way of thinking?

As I say, quite sad really.

And I've been to the meetings too. Sorry if that's not enough for you.

Dig days? Video? Ok.

Ride Sheffield are doing a lot to help out and we are getting places but the fruits of this are yet to be seen as most of the stuff we are seeing happening now took place before we established. There are some very interesting developments in the pipeline that we have been closely consulted on.

All I see is whining on here and not much actually forthcoming. Podge was obstructive on R.S. matters, not actually related to riding, and then buggered off completely deciding just to moan on here. We are actually still doing something about it all.

Ok, maybe you have caught me with a bit of a bee in my bonnet but I don't see much other than internet moaning when we are actually out there doing something about it.

I'd be very happy for more people to get involved in things, that is what has frustrated me.

OK then (deliberately not getting involved in the arguments)....

when is the next ride sheffield meeting? Do you have to be a member or anything? If there is a real chance of influencing something then I would be interested in getting involved.

and as a side note - anyone else disappointed that steel city downhill is involved in supporting an organisation that seems to focus on ruining our tracks?

Keep an eye on the Ride Sheffield facebook page or website as linked to by Antigee above to hear about the next meetings.

Sheffield Wildlife Trust are actually well behind cycling and are not intent on ruining tracks for cyclists at all so we're happy to support them. They're very keen to encourage cycling in Greno hence the support of the Steel City Race.

OK, thank

I'm going to take some convincing about the Sheffield Wildlife Trust though. Seems you can be pro cycling but still not give a hoot about mountain bikers

There are a number of other factors at play here and piling all of the criticism on SWT in unjust really. Sheffield City Council Right of Way team are far more obstructive and SWT really are behind mountain biking. They're very keen to have us on their land.

are they still intent on 'improving' devils elbow?

The plans for that keep changing and I'm not up to date with the latest decision but I fear they might be unfortunately

does anyone know know if the sheffield wildlife trust have consulted any cyclists in the past?

Yes, Me.

They to are a bunch of lovely people who also want to get people outdoors and would be more than happy for a meeting or a chat - head to the wednesday lunch cafe at thier headquarters on Stafford Road, S2 for a chat with some of them.

I think the bigger problem is SCC and the seemingly widely held belief that by providing a wide, smooth path for users that access problems can be solved, or that pressure on these areas is somehow relieved.

I miss riding round Sheffield *sobs* But here is betterer 8)

Didn’t Chris write a press release for you too?

Do I whine a lot? Seriously, it’s hard for me to judge what other people think of the way I write things. I have been told before that I do have an "Internet" persona but I'm not so sure. Sometimes I mean to be a dick, sometimes I just come across that way.

I have no idea what to make of Ride Sheffield. You clearly mean well but a lot of things were said at that meeting about how the group should be run that didn’t sit well with me. Plus after being told off for building you a website because I didn’t consult the comity before going live with it I figured I wasn’t welcome and didn’t want to be part of the main body. Clearly I was right as I gave off the impression of being obstructive when all I really wanted was to see something being done... Something I'm still waiting for.

I forgot about that press release I wrote.

anyway..........

and is ride sheffield going to bitterly oppose any improvements to devils elbow, or would that group be happy because SWT are all lovely people?

you just all seem very positive about people who are shafting my riding

FWIW, my opinions above are personal and not representative of Ride Sheffield. Just to make that clear.

edited

Matthew, you've had a go at me, and podge. You've ignored or not considered the videos I've done for singletraction, the article I wrote for bike magic and Stw, and dig days I've been on. You've spoken as Mr ride Sheffield on here, then retracted your comments.

Like I say, I'm just keen to see riders in Sheffield and beyond watched out for by whomever.

But there you go.

See you at the next meeting. i might even write it up again.

Just ride it flat out, hanging your back end out at every opportunity. It can be fun, will erode the trail and flat wide bridleways = bikes at speed may make them rethink. I do find the lower section of cut gate hilarious these days! I do of course realise this is a flawed plan, potentially dangerous and anti-social.

Matthew, if RS were more informative on what was happening then I may be more inclined to help out. So far all I've seen is its members hanging out with Sheffield's cool kids (Steve Peat, CGCC, thisisheffield, ShAFF).

You mention there are some interesting new developments but not what they are. I find it difficult to get excited and support an organisation who keep me in the dark.

I could turn up to another meeting but I'd prefer to read an email or web post in my lunch its quicker, easier and gives me time to consider my views on the matter. The FB page has very little information on it and the website is filled with blank pages and posts bigging yourself up.

This was one of the things that I didn't agree with at those early meetings. Actively keeping quiet and making decisions behind closed doors that affect us all while pimping RS as representing everyone.

nosedive not only didn't know you existed (more grass roots promotion needed, perhaps join Chris on one of his very popular pootles) but also frequently uses and is passionate about a track that you are involved in. And you're still not giving him the info. you may not have been at the meeting but you should have been finding out and posting what is going on. after all if members of the main body don't know what is going on then what hope do the rest of us have?

davej, I've always said people should ride resurfaced tracks as much as possible to speed up wear and tear. only problem now is that its base is partly made up of glass so once the top has worn through it'll become dangerous.

Matt, its nice to know SWT are a good bunch, I like having my negative views proved wrong.

I think the bigger problem is SCC and the seemingly widely held belief that by providing a wide, smooth path for users that access problems can be solved, or that pressure on these areas is somehow relieved.

The look of the rights of way repairs does seem to be an entirely personal thing to the areas rights of way officer. That was one of the things missing from the excellent set of articles on STW a couple of weeks back. I've yet to find anything other than guidance rather than statutory obligations on width.

As I feel I was rather unfairly criticised on here the other day, and as I'm now in writing on a laptop rather than a phone, I thought I'd just give some evidence of what i've actually done [i] rather than just being an internet warrior[/i] which you may or may not think is [i] worthwhile [/i]

[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/2010/11/new-trails-for-sheffield/ ]Ride Sheffield meeting written up for Singletrackworld[/url]

[url= http://www.ridesheffield.com/ride-sheffield-meeting-a-success/ ]Ride Sheffield meeting written up and on the ridesheffield site (no less)[/url]

It was on Bike Magic too but I can't find the link.

Videos produced for Singletraction:

Dig Day.
[url= http://www.vimeo.com/10283271 ]I'm the chap in red in the sped up sections. Also the man behind the camera, doing the interviews and in the edit suite. [/url]

[url= http://www.vimeo.com/10976671 ]Boulder Trail video[/url] produced on request by Singletraction. I didn't ride that day as I was feeling sick as a dog.

But hey, I'm not one to bang on about what I've done. I've just done it and hoped it's helped.

Have I done enough to be allowed an opinion now?

[i]But hey, I'm not one to bang on about what I've done[/i], much.

Edited

There was only the tiniest bit of irony in that comment.

I can see both sides of this argument. Firstly, I'm an active member of ride sheffield and I'm definitely not "one of the cool kids". Getting involved with this kind of stuff is always a thankless task; in the past with trail building in Wharncliffe and now trying to work with Sheffield ROW team. Although we have succeeded in being consulted on ROW issues from now on, our views count for very little (read: nothing). The law gives us no rights in terms of how trails are built or surfaced and currently puts the views of all other trail users first. If the ROW improvement plan included proactive elements to improve things for mountain bikers (like the Lancs one appears to, according to the Tony Lund interview last month in ST) we may have some hope, but the next one won't be drawn up until later this decade. All we can do is win the small arguments where we can and make bigger gains (like parkwood springs and Greno woods) where the land owner / manager is more supportive. What isn't useful (although we all do it) is whining on a bike forum; it puts the back up of people who are giving up their time to sort this mess out and it doesn't make things improve. You really are welcome to get involved in Ride Sheffield and we are an inclusive, friendly bunch.

FWIW (and AFAIK), SWT have stopped the proposed works on devils elbow as they were appalled at the improvements to houndkirk. that's not to say works won't take place, but they want them to be on their terms, not on the council's.

...and Matt will be the first to say he's not the greatest diplomat; but he is doing what he can and I can understand his frustration.

Frustrated or not it's pretty bad form to get on your high horse about people not contributing when in fact they have.

FWIW I think anything about unifying the voice of MTBers is a good thing, and have been pretty impressed by RS's contribution overall.

I'm still curious about what has happened to the loop that was going up on the other side of Rivelin though.

I decided yesterday that I wasn't going to post any more to this thread but I've lapsed.

Ok, Pook, you've written a press release for a meeting 18 months ago and you've been to a couple of dig days for some stuff that is completely unrelated to the stuff we're talking about. Not really that impressive a CV imo. I appreciate that you're doing something but there is still far more that you could get involved in and much more local to the stuff you've been whining about.

Podge on the other hand has done bugger all as far as I can see apart from moan and whine at meetings and then throw his toys out of the pram when it was suggested that the website he made that was not asked for and not fit for what was required was taken back down.

The point that a lot of people seem to have missed about Ride Sheffield is not that it is a group set up for trail building and for creating new spots but more as a collective voice for us mountain bikers to speak to the powers that control the changing of the trails. We're not all obsessed about being with the cool kids however flattered I am that you think that. The thing we all want is to avoid having the trails we ride ruined and that is what we are trying, sometimes in vain, to do. We are however finding ourselves coming up against a very very unhelpful ROW team at Sheffield City Council who are just not interested in listening to us and not only that have actually tried to blackmail us into withdrawing some of our objections. Nevertheless, we have now established some lines of communication that are reaping some rewards for everyone in the area.

As for Sheffield Wildlife Trust, they are not responsible for the changes to the ROW through their land as they don't actually own the ROW. That is all down to the ROW team at the council and SWT have to just deal with it on the whole. They must also encourage access to their land but are up against the same troublesome ROW officers that Ride Sheffield are. The advantages of Greno Woods is that there are no real ROW in their and hence we are just able to ride bikes in the woods. This is something that SWT are very keen to encourage and therefore they are getting support from things like the Steel City Race.

And that [i]really[/i] makes me want to get more involved now.

And 18 months ago? Funny it felt like only November.

Which bit is it that is making you less keen to get involved then?

And, ok, 6 months ago not 18, my mistake.

Pretty much every single bit of your attitude towards this thread Matt to be honest.

6 months ago? What [b] the most recent big meeting[/b]? This thread has given you, Ride Sheffield whoever you are or you aren't, the opportunity to explain fully and inclusively what is going on - allay concerns, discuss opportunities to get involved (as I have in the past). Instead, you've brought in personal attacks on people who have been actively involved in the past - regardless of howsoever you agree with what they've done or what their opinions were/are.

Why? I don't know. I can understand your frustration. I can't understand your lack of ability to control that frustration and turn what in your mind is a negative slight on RS into a positive call to arms amongst the riding community who are discussing the very trails your concern yourself with on one of the most popular riding forums in the UK.

It's all left something of a bitter taste in my mouth if I'm honest - but I'm more than happy to discuss this with you further should you so desire.

I guess what I've been trying to say but clearly not managing is that we are actually trying to do something about the situation and that we are actually making some progress albeit slowly and against some pretty well stacked opposition. There are things happening and a lot of it is necessarily behind the scenes but that is not down to R.S.

The thing is, there was no special entrance exam or needing to know the right person to get in to the Ride Sheffield committee, the only reason I am there is because I cared enough to stay late after the first meeting, put my name on the list of people who were happy to give a bit more and boom, there I am. You could have done that too but you didn't. You still could if you're bothered enough.

I'm just fed up seeing people moaning on an internet forum about the stuff that's happening but not actually seeming to put much effort into trying to help further.

I'm also perfectly aware of the irony of me whining on an internet forum about people whining on an internet forum

We are however finding ourselves coming up against a very very unhelpful ROW team at Sheffield City Council who are just not interested in listening to us

well i suppose it is yorkshire and diplomacy on a public thread on a forum that generally sits high on google searches counts for nothing

as it says on website "what can ridesheffield" learn from the bmc
as someone who worked on access issues and other issues with the bmc for quite some time i'd say remember you represent a broad range of characters and you can choose to listen to see if some part of their viewpoint is valid - personally attacking anyone don't help

and that you have to work a long time to change entrenched attitudes or find new solutions that all find to their liking or educate - may lose some battles along the way of winning the war - cliched but true

edit ...and don't forget that even if people aren't helpful today - you'll still be working with them in the future

but he made a video!! rofl

BTW Pook "to pook" is a common term on our rides - definition is to mess with furry animals 🙂

Your rides must be laugh a minute.

If your videos are owt to go by, far more of a laugh than yours!!

Matthew,

I don't like what Sheffield council / Rights of way currently seem to be doing and neither do you. So we went to 2 meetings over a year ago, I didn't like it and never went again. You did like it and still go.

Although we didn't see eye about how things should be approached I still signed / emailed the Parkwood Springs "give us money" thing and I still support CTC & Singletraction. I could do more, I could do less.

My apparent moaning was aimed at SCC / RoW however you decided to attack me and Chris in person. Thats not really fair is it?

I kind of know and like a couple of the other RS members but you've done nothing to encourage me to give it another go, if anything you've given me another reason to not support them. Which oddly seemed to be the opposite of what you may have wanted.

and cruzheckler, go and bitch on your own thread, this is ours.

lol at diva podge

I've got the boa and glittery eye shadow... seems silly to waste it.

Private video though that one podge.

And Cruz? How are you wanting me to react? Be upset? Care? Tell me 'cos I've no idea what rise you're angling for.

its ok Chris, I pixelated you, no one'll know.

That's illegal in most European countries y'know.

This thread is a very good example of why ride Sheffield is both great and a bit bollocks. People passionate about riding in Sheffield but also bitching and no info on what is actually happening.

It should be a great thing, all of the sheffield mountain bikers together, bring represented. And that may be happening, but we don't see it.

All we see from ride Sheffield is:
- a website that never gets updated
- a twitter account that may as well be someones personal account
- people hob nobing with the cool kids
- people arguing on the Internet

All of the "representing" stuff may be going on but it's hidden. Why does the website not say "we tried to persuade them not to motorway xxx path but it going to happen so you may want to have a last ride"? Why do we only get limited info on your relationship with SWF on this thread instead of a post in the website explaining how Ride Sheffield are working with SWF? Show us what you are doing and more people will get involved. Otherwise you just look like it's a small clique of people using an invented mandate to get themselves an invite to a party.

thank you jfletch, you've put that much better than I could.

you don't fancy a job as my internet PA do you? it'd save me a shed load of hassle.