I remember reading this by designer Mark Sauders back in 2009 (blimey how time flies here in 2023!), with respect to the UK and many other markets think the contents holds up still now, and that the situation is making the current industry problems more acute, given that for the majority of people bikes are irrelevant and thus is a whole market untapped.
It is worth a flick through:
Page flip:
https://issuu.com/carltonreid/docs/mark-sanders-blue-ocean-slides
https://issuu.com/carltonreid/docs/notes
both prepared by Carlton Reid from the originals presentation.
I often thought for the UK if cars were marketed as bicycles were, the showroom options would be:
or:
of course, there's no cycle culture in the UK like some other European countries, so here bikes are just for sport/weirdos/the very poor!I often thought for the UK if cars were marketed as bicycles were, the showroom options would be:
If it were normal to cycle then bike shops etc would obviously be much more viable businesses.
very poor
In the UK the reverse is true, the poorer you are, the less likely you are to cycle for any reason, even getting to work and that is even the case in places such as London.
I'll also add in that in many cultures, cycling is seen as 'that's what the poor do', especially in the UK.
It's not a market that "the bike industry" can create. The original Charge bikes had a damn good go... with tough well priced simple (and well marketed) bikes aimed at people who were up for giving short commutes and hanging around on bikes a go. And obviously there is the success of Brompton at the high end. And even higher up we have eCargo bikes taking off. But ultimately people need to feel that transport networks (roads/trains/trams/paths) are ready for them to use with bikes, and that they are designed with their safety in mind. Public transport you can't take bikes on. Roads made for small carts/cars packed with huge vehicles. Paths away from roads having no cycling signs. You can't ride on that footpath, despite it being an unadopted tarmac surfaced road. No bikes in the building. Bike theft is not serious enough a crime to concern the police. The environment is still too hostile for most people to contemplate using a bike in their normal day to day life.
Most working people are also cash rich and time poor - a form of transport that takes way longer and is less convenient than a car is a big sell.
of course, there’s no cycle culture in the UK like some other European countries, so here bikes are just for sport/weirdos/the very poor!
This is my father.
He thinks I'm ridiculous, riding bicycles around in the woods for no reason at 49yo, but he doesn't really have an answer when asked what I should be doing.
Good god man! You mean you don't have a cardigan OR a smoking jacket?! How's a fellow supposed to live?!
I often thought for the UK if cars were marketed as bicycles were, the showroom options would be:
Yeah, unfortunately true. The problem has often been said to be about how the bike industry is full of enthusiasts who love bikes but don't relate to non-performance use of them. I'm not sure if that's true but there's enough of that influence through the whole chain from brand to retail that generally we haven't engaged transport cycling customers well overall, or the race/tech side of it takes priority. There's exceptions though and it's changing with e-bikes.
Edit to add, unfortunately +💯 that infrastructure and culture is the major issue in the UK. The UK Bicycle Association does admirable work in that area but it's an unfair fight.
i was in a typical provincial Dutch bike shop the other day - the sort they have in every small town and village. Rather than a typical temple to bling we have in the UK, there was wall to wall mudguards, shopping baskets, kiddie seats, bells and plenty of black utilitarian e-bikes for around 2k-3k as well as various cargo bikes. A few years ago there would have been no helmets at all but now due to the recent law change, those riding unrestricted e-bikes (they go 45 kmh) must wear helmets so they sell a few cheap lids. There were no road bikes or mtbs and very few bikes without motors at all - just a few old school Dutch uprights and a couple of hybrid style tourers. They also had a very busy workshop with 2 mechanics in it as well as 2 sales staff. The shop was pretty busy for a weekday morning and they sold a really expensive cargo bike with two child seats on it whilst I was there (I was also looking a cargo bikes with a view to bringing one back to the UK)
This is repeated all over the country - if you want a flash bike they obviously sell them but you need to go to a specialist shop in one of the bigger towns.
Looked like a pretty vibrant industry to me! Obviously as Kelvin said, it rather helps to have the worlds best cycle infrastructure outside them....
and no hills.
Edit to add, unfortunately +💯 that infrastructure and culture is the major issue in the UK.
This - def a case of if they build it, they will come.
ps @jameso were you the designer of the lovely Pinnacle kids bikes? if so 10/10!
Some hills - I did an offroad sportif in Limburg earlier in the year 120km with 2.5k of climbing. If you like XC there are also some fantastic singletrack trails in the Netherlands, mainly around Utrecht and Apeldoorn. Amerongen for instance.
Most working people are also cash rich and time poor – a form of transport that takes way longer and is less convenient than a car is a big sell.
for the school run, my tandem is quicker door to school and back than taking the car.
In the UK the reverse is true, the poorer you are, the less likely you are to cycle for any reason, even getting to work and that is even the case in places such as London.
Are you sure about that, I'm pretty sure that I've read elsewhere that for a lot of low paid shift workers whose hours fall outside of public transport, cycling is their preferred form of transport?
@kelvin 100% your post
I situation where you could leave a £40k car (average new car cost in 2023) in a car park and not be overly worried about whether it will be there when you get back vs leaving £4k Tern GSD attached to a pole....
The lesson from Holland was that it wasn't enough just to build the infrastructure, at the same time you have to make it more difficult to use the car.
However this is overwhelmingly popular amongst the majority of users when it's enacted. It's just a vocal minority who object.
In the UK the reverse is true, the poorer you are, the less likely you are to cycle for any reason, even getting to work and that is even the case in places such as London.
Are you sure about that, I’m pretty sure that I’ve read elsewhere that for a lot of low paid shift workers whose hours fall outside of public transport, cycling is their preferred form of transport?
Yep, certainly for London where the bus is king and where being seen on a bike reinforces a view you are poor.
and generally - leisure cycling rates were unaffected by income, but for utility cycling lower income relates to less:
One paper here:
The lesson from Holland was that it wasn’t enough just to build the infrastructure, at the same time you have to make it more difficult to use the car.
This is true, otherwise places such as Bracknell that did have inbuilt cycle infrastructure would work better.
However this is overwhelmingly popular amongst the majority of users when it’s enacted. It’s just a vocal minority who object.
Yes as it generally improves quality of life, with less, noise, pollution, and more space etc.
@rootes1 I'm pretty sure I read in the same book, that the English Travel Survey under-represented very poor people as they're much likely to have questionable immigration status, and so that actually skewed the findings.
Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the book at the moment, but will check when I'm at home.
@kramer I’m not sure about that - I drive in Netherlands a lot and it’s really easy to use a car. I mean they have massive traffic jams on the motorway but that isn’t where you would be using a bike instead anyway. They do have low speed limits in urban areas and plenty of traffic calming plus cycle priority at junctions but it’s not horrendous to drive there - quite relaxing actually. But it is really really easy to cycle and things like shops, sports amenities ,schools and restaurants are so close to housing that it makes no sense to drive for a lot of people.
for the school run, my tandem is quicker door to school and back than taking the car.
This is almost always true but very very few people realise it or are willing to believe it.
I'm in a local community group of people that do food bank deliveries - 4 addresses per night, all fairly local (within about a 1-mile radius). Some of us do it on a community-owned Tern e-cargo bike, some people use their cars. The e-cargo bike deliveries are always 20 minutes, done and dusted, carrying 4 large sacks of food. The car is a minimum of 30 minutes - all that driving around looking for a parking spot, squeezing through narrow estate roads filled with parked cars, carrying a sack of food 200m from where you parked to the house...
The problem is that people will only go down that route when absolutely forced to, such as some kind of School Street / Low Traffic Neighbourhood / Controlled Parking Zone / paid-for parking etc that makes life a pain for drivers but easy for cyclists.
@rootes1 - the very poor people who are commuting by bike are generally doing so at very unsocial hours apparently, either just after midnight, or about four in the morning. Hence they also get missed by many usage surveys as the surveyors have packed up and gone home.
This is not from my direct knowledge, just from a book I read about cycling in the UK a few years ago.
They do have low speed limits in urban areas and plenty of traffic calming plus cycle priority at junctions but it’s not horrendous to drive there – quite relaxing actually.
Those are exactly the measures that I'm talking about to make driving harder though. It's just that they're so successful that people don't notice them. Traffic free streets, less road area for cars, modality filters, wider pavements, all make it harder to drive.
But it neatly demonstrates another paradox, if we get unnecessary motor vehicles off the road, it actually makes it nicer for everyone including the drivers who are left.
"Most working people are also cash rich and time poor – a form of transport that takes way longer and is less convenient than a car is a big sell"
short journeys in towns and cities ie the usual commute is quicker by bike.
Netherlands is also seen as a good place to drive - because weirdly enough the shared spaces theme also increases traffic flows and they do put in relief roads
MY last workplace two of us cycled to work. the rest public transport or drove. they couldn't believe that I was quicker round the city on my bike. this was mainly poorly paid shift workers
Hence they also get missed by many usage surveys as the surveyors have packed up and gone home.
Most counts now use induction loops and/or AI sensors which (usually) work 24/7. Even if there's a temporary glitch, it's normally identified and rectified reasonably quickly and you can extrapolate a lot of the data.
It doesn't need people with clipboards sitting there counting although that can make a good verification if needed. You can also simply plonk someone in front of a video recording of the area in question and they can scroll through it at 2x or 3x - they don't need to be sitting out in the rain for hours on end at unsociable hours!
I’m not convinced that the bike industry can’t do anything about demand. If they lobbied for infrastructure, access and planning laws that favour bikes, sensible insurance options etc, I think that there would be a decent amount of influence as a global industry. You’d think that places like Taiwan might actually join in some of that lobbying, given how much bike manufacturing takes place there.
We have throwaway cans and bottles because the drinks industry got together and lobbied against deposit return schemes. It doesn’t take big oil or big pharma to have influence.
You’d think that places like Taiwan might actually join in some of that lobbying, given how much bike manufacturing takes place there.
Which currently in power UK politicians would listen to a Taiwan industry lobby group?
But agree... lobbying in the UK is important... and happens... check out what goes in front of the all party group for cycling at Westminster. It's all marginal though. It needs political shift, and the strength to stand up to neighsayers. Lots has happened in London, Manchester, and elsewhere... but it needs politicians to lead not be jostled along by small industry players.
I’m not convinced that the bike industry can’t do anything about demand. If they lobbied for infrastructure, access and planning laws that favour bikes, sensible insurance options etc, I think that there would be a decent amount of influence as a global industry.
The "bike industry" has about a million different offshoots all campaigning for their own little fiefdom. Sustrans, CTC / Cycling UK, British Cycling, Wheels for All... all manner of local groups (London Cycling Campaign, Cardiff Cycle City - there's usually one for most major cities and quite a few smaller ones), and then hyperlocal groups too such as individual London boroughs, smaller towns etc.
Then there are demographic ones such as Cycle Sisters (Muslim women), Black Cyclists Network (fairly obvious that one!) seeking to promote marginalised / minority groups.
All kicking up a fuss, none of them capable of working together in a cohesive way and not all asking for the same thing. It's a confusing mess of generally asking for better cycling but with very different ways of going about it and most operating on the sort of annual budgets that the average car manufacturer spends on a single advert.
I'm still fairly hopeful that Active Travel England can start to make a difference soon, that is one genuinely positive and fairly well-connected group with actual policy power.
This is not from my direct knowledge, just from a book I read about cycling in the UK a few years ago.
I live near a business park filled with warehouses and a couple of large veg growing greenhouses.
Lot of people cycle to work on bikes of differing qualities.
Walking past some the bike racks are large and packed vs fairly small car parks.
@rootes1, thanks.. yes, those and the Hoy kid's bikes, working with Scott Decker, Matt Ischt-Barnard and Ben Bratby, the Product Management team at Evans then. Fun projects! Thanks for the M Sanders links, will look through those later.
think for the UK market - biking is really very slewed towards discretionary spending, whereas car, mobile, TV etc. is often viewed as 'essential' and will be maintained. If cycling was something more widely used (such as NL) then it would be different.
The environment is still too hostile for most people to contemplate using a bike in their normal day to day life.
No bikes allowed in the rental property you live in, or even the flat you own in a shared building.
Cycling seems to be considered an optional privilege in so many contexts.
This is my father.
He thinks I’m ridiculous, riding bicycles around in the woods for no reason
Yes. The low-level friendly ridicule from relatives over 50. I think it can't be totally irrational, for example some of these people when they were in their 30s just didn't have time or money for anything other than work and family duties - maybe they just don't like people having discretionary time and money for hobbies and fun.
or even the flat you own in a shared building.
Unenforceable. Your flat you put a bike in it if you want
Where do you lock your £1000 bike? Maybe it's time for some of the empty retail units to be a locked unit and you drop your bike off, only get it back with Id and as ticket?
Cycling in the uk was actively endorsed by the socialist and derided by the capitalists.
I grew up in Birmingham and when I was a kid, it was easier to get from one side of the town centre to the other by car than by walking/cycling. You could see where you wanted to go but you'd struggle to navigate the dark underpasses and many flights of stairs. That's what happens when you live in a city that makes a good portion of it's lively hood from the motor industry.
That presentation hasn't aged well visually, it looks like a GCSE project. The contents are still pretty relevant.
Nothing makes a fat grumpy motorist more happy than seeing someone cycling in the rain. Sad but so true.
Most working people are also cash rich and time poor
Not sure that's true, most working people have a credit rating that the car finance industry takes a keen interest in, and increasingly the bike industry assumes punters will be funding their products with credit also.
– a form of transport that takes way longer and is less convenient than a car is a big sell.
The 'longer and is less convenient than a car' bit depends a lot on circumstance and the bit you missed is bicycles are actually be substantially cheaper to own/fuel/park/insure and better for users health. There's lots of selling points, the challenge is cultural i.e.:
