Shared use bike/footpath outside shops

I would think that will be a nightmare and I would not use it.  Just ignore the idiots

I posted this on another thread, but this is probably a better one for it. They’ve “upgraded” a load in Nottingham, and somehow made them worse than the line painted on the road that preceeded them. They’re slightly wider, but now have a kerb you have to go up and down to move out of it to avoid things like gravel in the lane, and send you behind bus stops – deconflicting the road by bringing cyclists into conflict with pedestrians, especially at the bottom of hills where even granny on a shopper is doing 15+ mph. (Although I now get more abuse from drivers for not using them) Good use of funds Nottingham City Council.

I get the feeling it's funding is connected to the new bike/scooter hire schemes that have come in, as they seem to stop where the hire scheme boundaries are, which on my route coincides with a dodgy junction where cyclists have been hit in the past (including me!) and some dedicated infrastructure would be welcome, but no dice.

Surely this is going to be a nightmare for accidents/conflict? Or maybe bikes right outside shops is a normal pattern?

Sadly its not an unusual pattern. Moronic but not unusual.
I assume they had a xKM of new cycle lanes as a target and since they couldnt possibly inconvenience drivers decided to wreck havoc on pedestrians and create animosity.
I wouldnt use it unless i was going to those shops.

but a bit of digging has shown the digging on the footpath is to turn it into a shared use path.

Wouldn't have thought that will be compliant with LTN 1/20?

Meh.  Go slower at the risky bits, be prepared to get off and walk, ignore idiots.  Job jobbed.

Maybe drivers should get off and walk whenever the road becomes a bit narrow, oh wait......

imnho a better solution would be to put the road down to 20 so cars and bikes can mix more safely pedestrians and bikes do not mix well unless the bike is ridden by a child with stabilisers.

Meh. Go slower at the risky bits, be prepared to get off and walk

Which renders it pretty useless as a bike lane and so everyone uses the road as before.
Personally I think there are better things to spend money on.

Some really bonkers ideas in places. I really dislike the ones that go round the back of bus stops, so dangerous for both cyclists and pedestrians. The council spent a fortune on a cycle lane near me, Jacksons Lane in Hazel Grove for the locals) and I avoid it. I had the misfortune of using a small section the other day due to a diversion. Absolutely horrendous on a road bike - lots of ups and downs due to driveways and dropped curbs - it looks great fun on a jump bike though !

I really hate this kind of infrastructure, causes more problems than it solves, and normally comes with a bunch of "cyclists dismount" or "cyclists prepare to give way" signs etc which generally have no legal basis (i.e. are not enforceable) and only serve to promote conflict with pedestrians!

Sadly if you then use the road as it's safer all-round (some) motorists take objection to that so you can't win!

for those concerned, there's no chance of me riding on it, I'm normally doing >25 down that hill, it'd be suicide to use the bike lane. I rode past it again today and the (unfinished at the moment so it might improve) dropped curbs where you're likely to join the path have surprisingly high edges to them, so more room for novices to trip up..

Whats even more bizarre is the bottom of that road is church walk, which looks like this

and isn't getting any cycle access through it

The new cycle lane on leith walk is a classic case of increasing danger and conflict.  Some of the junctions the same traffic lights as cars seems to apply.  some  cyclists get their own traffic lights.  some no traffic light applies.  Its on the pavement tho delineated by a different surface.  It has a low sloped upwards kerb at one side,  It narrows and widens and goes behind bus stops

In doing this latest revamp they have narrowed the road a bit and in some places the only place to ride on the road is either in the gutter or have to cross the tram tracks.  this is the third attempt in a few years.

https://goo.gl/maps/9N6DhhECVFXoSjn47

or “cyclists prepare to give way” signs etc which generally have no legal basis (i.e. are not enforceable)

Although the heirarchy in the Highway Code makes it clear where responsibility lies when it comes to cyclists and pedestrians.

But I agree, many of the so called improvements to infrastructure are really badly thought out and cause more problems than they solve.

Works both ways. Some really daft cycle routes out there with no appreciation of the real need but equally it's seems odd to moan about motorised transport being self entitled if cyclists won't give a bit as well. The overall difference between, say 15mph and 5mph for a section past the shops will be little different from slowing from 30 to 20 in a car. In shopping precincts etc I see no reason not to have a no riding area. This however needs real enforcement so that scooters etc are also banned.

My idea is to stick at least two zeros on all motoring/road offences. This will pay for standalone transport "police" organisation that has powers to nail offenders.

Eventually they would do themselves out of business and by then habits would have changed.

many of the so called improvements to infrastructure are really badly thought out and cause more problems than they solve.

Central Govt to local council : Increase the number of bike lanes to "x" otherwise we'll cut your roads budget

Also Central Govt: There's no extra money for you to do this

Also the leith walk one has this spectacularly unfit for purpose bit at the bottom.  If I am going north Ie towards the camera and want to turn left as I regularly do how am I supposed to do this safely?  the kerb activly pushes you out where he cars would be.  I think the bikes are supposed to have thier own signal but its not installed yet.

https://goo.gl/maps/MTp8b1mSJ2JBWmeM6

5labFull Member
for those concerned, there’s no chance of me riding on it, I’m normally doing >25 down that hill, it’d be suicide to use the bike lane.

DfT guidance says that cyclists going faster than 18 mph should use the road instead of any designated infrastructure, crack on

If it lets you cycle on what was previously a footpath then it's surely a benefit. If it's shared use them you just have to cycle to the conditions. You wouldn't expect to drive at 60mph on a winding country road with no footpath where you know people may also be walking.

No it's not an ideal solution but it's a start

dc - allit does is increase risks to pedestrians and cyclists.   a poor attempt is worse than nothing

isn’t getting any cycle access through it

Is it specifically not allowed via a bylaw? As it isn't a pavement fronting a highway cycling would be allowed by default

If it lets you cycle on what was previously a footpath then it’s surely a benefit. If it’s shared use them you just have to cycle to the conditions. You wouldn’t expect to drive at 60mph on a winding country road with no footpath where you know people may also be walking.

I'm not complaining for my sake, and it is potentially a benefit, but when people are stepping out of blind doorways onto what they probably think is a path, directly into the path of cyclists coming down a hill, its likely to cause issues. I don't expect to cycle fast on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if some people do (the town has a good number of scallys on bikes)

out yesterday on the Ormeau Road in Belfast, I came upon a bus shelter plonked down on a dedicated cycle path...

https://goo.gl/maps/ZSiJhV2SZRdyn38A8

how ridiculous.

@tractionman that's been there for years. Must have been up that road hundreds, if not thousands of times during my deliveroo days and not once used it. Almost insulting the council put that in given the road is 2 lanes in both directions there - as if to say motorists can't give up any of that space for cyclists!

It's also the exact spot I met my girlfriend about 4 years ago, both on bikes...

This is good for a laugh.  Not been updated for awhile but some utter beauts

http://wcc.crankfoot.xyz/facility-of-the-month/index.htm

@gotbike it's one of many such stupid and hazardous bike lanes we have in norn iron, as you say the road here is plenty wide enough for doing this properly!

This one makes me smile when I cycle past it in Sheffield. Less than 60m randomly painted across two side roads to then turn cyclists in to the school (or just on to the pavement).

https://maps.app.goo.gl/QHQQE1tFjzq2RiP16?g_st=ic

I also got an earful from a delightful old dear leaning out of her car yesterday for riding on the pavement (it was a shared cycle and footway) and also “undertaking” them (I call it filtering stationary traffic at lights). My language was admittedly below par but I’d had enough when she announced that everyone hates cyclists.

Riding through a local town I got shouted at to “get on the bike path” (as you do) which was a bit confusing as there wasn’t one.. but a bit of digging has shown the digging on the footpath is to turn it into a shared use path. Normally I’d be in favour of more infrastructure, but this path goes down a fairly fast hill, right outside shop entrances, and squeezes through narrow gaps.

This image is from a few weeks ago..

https://maps.app.goo.gl/5wPmBu4bKnmt5vn99

Surely this is going to be a nightmare for accidents/conflict? Or maybe bikes right outside shops is a normal pattern?

Shouldn't really be turning those footways into shared use. Too much chance of conflict. Heaps of carriageway space though. Sadly probably no money.

Its not the money - its that folk will not accept that to get decent cycle provuision you need to take road space from cars.  There is no other way.

See numerous debates on here about it and thats on a cyclists website!

Agree you need to reallocate road space. How do you make the changes though? Unless they're sitting on heaps of LTP or S106, then the pay outs they have had from recent funds is probably minimal.

Its not the money – its that folk will not accept that to get decent cycle provuision you need to take road space from cars.  There is no other way.

Nail. On. The. Head.

The lesson from Holland is quite simple. To make for good pedestrian and cycle access you both need to improve cycle and pedestrian infrastructure and put in place measures to reduce traffic.

See numerous debates on here about it and thats on a cyclists website!

I'm not going to name names, but I heard about a bike shop owner who objected to a proposed pedestrianisation and cycle infrastructure scheme in his local town because most of his customers brought their bikes by car.

This is in a very touristy area that has two absolutely thriving low traffic zone towns nearby that it is joined to by a beautiful cycleway.

Tj - I think the biggest danger in that area is the proximity to the Central bar!

Sadly probably no money.

they've spent £5mm repaving the footpaths on that stretch to turn them into shared cycle paths. plenty of money around