[Closed] Sexism in bikes, part 186 - Specialized the 70's called

capitalism is sexist.
But yeah let's all complain about Specialized and Playboy

Nobody forced them to do it, they thought it was a great way to promote a product.

? really? 🙄

Reminds me of the Ford adverts when they photoshoped all the black workers out of the poster and replaced them with white workers.

This wont effect Specialized, like when they told 'THAT' shop to change it's name or face court (Fuji stepped in and had a WORD'. Shame Specialized are to big to fail or feel the impact of any protest about their behaviour 🙁 (just like Ford)

Is it really so sexist and terrible?

I mean Specialized - yes the Ford 'incident' was disgusting.

I wouldn't have wanted my photo taken next to those ladies and it may have made me avoid looking at the stand (not through protest, but feeling uncomfortable being next to very scantily clad ladies) but it wouldn't put me off buying a bike from the big S.

Surely beautiful women and beautiful bikes are a great thing together. I'm not even being a deliberate arsehole (and I often am), but I'm yet to feel offended by any of the latest 'sexism in our sport'. I genuinely wouldn't have an issue if the latest ladies specific bike from any range had some hunk in lycra on it.

Do you think female has actually been put off riding because of an ad with a good looking girl in it? I go to the gym despite all the adds showing guys (and ladies) who could do bicep curls with me.

Think the guy in the I hate Jeffsy adverts was chosen for his gnarness or acting ability?

This sort of cultural difference towards being offended is exactly why STW needs to pull out of the EU.

STW needs to pull out of the EU.

A Sexit?

😀 😀

Reminds me of the Ford adverts when they photoshoped all the black workers out of the poster and replaced them with white workers.

Yeah it's just as bad as that

Are you saying one vile act is better than the other 😕

Reminds me of the Ford adverts when they photoshoped all the black workers out of the poster and replaced them with white workers.

Yeah it's just as bad as that

And that is just as bad as Nazism. Which is bad!

There, I'm the person who is the most offended - what do I win ?

Unlike makecoldplayhistory I'm very comfortable in the proximity of scantily clad ladies,but I think using the Playboy link to sell an ebike tells you exactly who it's aimed at i.e.fat elderly American men 8)

I wonder how many of you have put Danny Macaskill on the naughty step too.

'Scantily clad'......really?
I'm sure if you'd have stuck the young ladies in lycra you'd have still had complaints?
I'm not really getting the partnership (I'm presuming it's financial?) but people just seem to be jumping on the moral high ground bandwagon.
Chill.......no one got hurt.

Yawn. World needs to calm down and untwist their knickers.

Are women's only bike clubs and events sexist?

Are women's only bike clubs and events sexist?

Edit...
I'd also prefer the budget put aside for eye candy was spent on equal pay, prize money and sponsorship for women's events.

Stw professionally offended handwringers to the forum please.

Monika Zamojska, cycle clothing brand House of Astbury co-founder, spotted the “Playboy Bunnies” at the Berlin Fahrradschau over the weekend, and says she feels the marketing contributes to a gender imbalance in the cycling industry and in the sport.

A bit like the ratio of boys to girls on the front of cycling mags then?

Not so much offended at disappointed at the complete lack of imagination on how to promote their products other than by association with what's at best a sleazy brand Specialized have shown.

I follow @thenoodleator on Twitter who works for them and she's done a lot to promote women's cycling and the Specialized brand with innovative and different stuff over the past few years and yet they manage to shoot themselves in the foot with this.

Playboy will be delighted as they get more publicity and don't care about it's quality or tone, of course.

ever wondered about the ratio of girls to boys on the cover of runners world?
Im offended.
But slightly aroused.

Specialised have in the past done what I thought were excellent adverts involving women. Dressed for cycling, covered in mud, with big grins. And head only shots.

Looks like some people missed the mark this time though. I'd hope head office are having some strong words.

Don't get me started on sports illustrated.

Lovely, lovely, sports illustrated..

Reminds me of the Ford adverts when they photoshoped all the black workers out of the poster and replaced them with white workers.

ever wondered about the ratio of girls to boys on the cover of runners world?
Im offended.
But slightly aroused.

No but I am now. Is it mostly boys in shorty shorts? 🙂

Jesus ****ing Christ here we go again......

There's a commercial partnership between 2 iconic and longstanding American brands. It's not (as this half truth story reports) Specialized using Playboy bunnies to promote a bike - that's one of Playboy's signature branding elements.

We don't know what kind of $$$ Playboy paid Spesh for the branding rights on the limited edition but I'd guess it was healthy.

Can't help thinking the "professionally offended" perpetuate the myth to allow people like that Adele to monetise her freelance rants, and sites to leverage the traffic from handwringers for commercial gain - and there's something a bit insidious about stirring up faux outrage just to make a quick buck.

I see ladies wearing less than that through their own free will most weekends.
Not offended.

We don't know what kind of $$$ Playboy paid Spesh for the branding rights on the limited edition but I'd guess it was healthy.
Can't help thinking the "professionally offended" perpetuate the myth to allow people like that Adele to monetise her freelance rants, and sites to leverage the traffic from handwringers for commercial gain

For all the stuff spec does with its women's ranges and all that to flip back to a crass 70's legacy is just cheap.

It doesn't look sexist, just looks like crap marketing really.

Women wear less on the beach, is that sexist now ?

I'm most offended that the man from Specialized referred to them as "40 unique bikes". Does he not understand the meaning of unique? Tsk.

How would you explain it to a young girl or boy as to why you need tits to sell stuff.

What about bras? Difficult to sell bras without tits. 😯

[i]Women wear less on the beach, is that sexist now ? [/i]

no. The sexist bit is where you use women in bikinis to sell a product that has nothing to do with women in bikinis.

But you knew that.

It's all very well lots of men declaring themselves not offended by this, but it's also almost completely irrelevant. It has obviously offended a number of female cyclists, which in my view is a bad thing.

As for comparing it to men on magazine covers, that's missing the point rather too. If scantily clad men were regularly being used to sell products in a massively female dominated market then that would be more similar, but it still wouldn't come close as it doesn't have a system with a history and present of inbuilt inequality behind it. I'm sure a lot of you have seen this video already, and it's about racism, not sexism, but the same principles apply:

Checked out the pictures.
Those girls would never be able to pedal with flats in those shoes. FAIL.

Specialized are definitely completely sexist. After all, they don't have a bike called the Fat[i]girl[/i] do they, eh?

Scott? Big Jon and Big Ed. Where's Big Joanna and Big Elsie?

How come Schwalbe do the Jumbo Jim but it's Magic Mary?

They're all bloody at it!

We don't know what kind of $$$ Playboy paid Spesh for the branding rights on the limited edition

Does the video explain how some types of racism are bad, but some are good, based on the skin colour of those on the receiving end ?

Well there's a surprise.

Oh and there is no such thing as reverse racism, there's just racism and you are guilty of posting up a racist video.

Well done you.

Hasn't cycling been in sexism shame since Lance and Victoira stripped off for their shoots - appalling weren't they 😉 ?

Specialised have in the past done what I thought were excellent adverts involving women.

Dressed for cycling,

covered in mud,

with big grins.

And head only shots.

(Aren't playboy just a particularly naff corner of the porn industry? why any bike company would want to be associated with a brand that evokes an octogenarian bobbing about in a sea of silicone defeats me, embarrassed looking lasses in eight inch heels notwithstanding....)

I'm most offended that the man from Specialized referred to them as "40 unique bikes". Does he not understand the meaning of unique? Tsk.

Uniquely offended?

If scantily clad men were regularly being used to sell products in a massively female dominated market then that would be more similar...

How about firemen calendars?

[img] [/img]

And let's not forget that scantily clad men are also used to sell to the male market.

[img] https://s.yimg.com/ea/img/-/150331/mh0515_coverdamian_1ahkbs3-1ahkbsi.jp g" target="_blank">https://s.yimg.com/ea/img/-/150331/mh0515_coverdamian_1ahkbs3-1ahkbsi.jp g"/> [/img]

Would have thought better of Specialized as they always seemed like a good provider of female-specific equipment. This is very disappointing.

I'm a woman, I hate sexism and I hate sexist companies using naked women to sell products - I guess that makes me a "professional handwringer" in the eyes of about 70% of the male posters on this thread.

Didn't even notice the bike.

Does the video explain how some types of racism are bad, but some are good, based on the skin colour of those on the receiving end?

Maybe you should watch the video before commenting on it? But in answer to your question, no, he explicitly says that it has nothing to do with skin colour, it has to do with centuries of subjugation, enslavement and the building of a system that continues to massively disadvantage certain sections of society to this day. I don't entirely agree with what he says, and I don't want to portray myself as some kind of spokesperson for women or ethnic minorities because I am neither, but I think that sexism and racism both have to be understood within a historical context and with regard to the balance of power within society.

How about firemen calendars?

See above. It's closer, but it's still not the same. It's easy for men to be happy with this stuff when it's far less common and it's not just the tip of the iceberg in a system still full of inbuilt discrimination.

On a more positive note I think it's great that there are more and more women in cycling, and that they're standing up to companies like these when they feel that they've got something wrong.

Has anyone noticed just how many middle aged men are so outraged at charges of sexism in the bike that they feel the need to angrily post about it on the STW forum and social media feed?

See above. It's closer, but it's still not the same. It's easy for men to be happy with this stuff when it's far less common and it's not just the tip of the iceberg in a system still full of inbuilt discrimination.

I actually agree with you. I just wanted to make the point that it's not a simple argument. 🙂

I think sooner or later we're just going to have to accept that the all Germans are perverts.

Has anyone noticed just how many middle aged men are so outraged at charges of sexism in the bike that they feel the need to angrily post about it on the STW forum and social media feed?

[i]Has anyone noticed just how many middle aged men are so outraged at charges of sexism in the bike that they feel the need to angrily post about it on the STW forum and social media feed[/i]

has anyone who's posted on here saying they don't think it was a good decision by Specialized been 'outraged'?

It suits those who want to say 'meh' for there to be some huge wave of outrage that they're able to turn around and say 'blown out of all proportion' but so far on here all I';ve seen is people articulating the reasons why it's a bad thing in the face of others sayin 'but what about', not a huge group of middle class, male IT workers baying for blood.

As has been said above if all that women on stw see is bloke's going 'I didn;t see the bike' etc then it rather make the point that it was sexist and that those defending it really don't 'get it' and potentially this place becomes even more male dominated. Which would be a bit sad too.

Well given the number of put downs as handwringers maybe there is a reason women don't bother here in general. Perhaps some of us who think it's wrong should stand up and reject crap like this. I guess the rest of you either think it's a good thing or just want to ignore it.

Sorry, I didn't quite make my position clear on this.

Sexism isn't acceptable, end of. I find myself quite appalled and ashamed at my fellow STWers reaction to charges of sexism - for example the Maxxis tyres debacle - the STW social media feed made for depressing reading.

Fact is, you cannot suddenly redress the balance by posting a picture of a fireman or the cover of Men's Health, it doesn't work that way. A bunch of paunchy, middle aged blokes should not be arguing that objectifying women is in any way acceptable.

From reading this thread, it seems that some attitudes are changing - hurrah! - however, there is still a long way to go.

As has been said above if all that women on stw see is bloke's going 'I didn;t see the bike' etc then it rather make the point that it was sexist and that those defending it really don't 'get it' and potentially this place becomes even more male dominated. Which would be a bit sad too.

Dry yer eyes and grow a pair.

[i]Dry yer eyes and grow a pair. [/i]

Is that the best you can do?

I'd have expected something a bit more well, intelligent.

Dry yer eyes and grow a pair.

TBH you can tell a lot in these threads from people's reactions- always lots of people pretending there's "outrage", people are handwringers, "permanently offended", when mostly what there is, is eyerolling and mild disappointment. I reckon, if you have to wilfully misrepresent the other guy's position before you can attack it, you're probably fully aware that your own argument is rotten.

Fact is, you cannot suddenly redress the balance by posting a picture of a fireman or the cover of Men's Health, it doesn't work that way. A bunch of paunchy, middle aged blokes should not be arguing that objectifying women is in any way acceptable.

No but they were probably the wrong examples, they're not men being used to sell stuff to women. Pretty sure the majority of men don't give a fluff about that.

Low fat yogurt on the other hand? Everyone agrees it's a bit silly, you can't eat a muller and expect to be transformed into a godess being fanned by Adnonisses (Adoni?). It's a bit silly. And that's despite the fact that mens body image is clearly a bigger issue than it was 10-20 years ago, there's now as many 'mens health' style mags on the shelves as there were Zoo/FHM in the 90's (and whey protein is now so popular it's on the list of things used to calculate inflation).

As a bloke I'm more offended by Specialized than I am by greek yogurt that Spesh actually think this would make people buy them.

TBH you can tell a lot in these threads from people's reactions- always lots of people pretending there's "outrage", people are handwringers, "permanently offended", when mostly what there is, is eyerolling and mild disappointment. I reckon, if you have to wilfully misrepresent the other guy's position before you can attack it, you're probably fully aware that your own argument is rotten.

Mostly that.

Some women got paid to promote a bike.

Some men by inference weren't (there's sexism, I bet the requisition didn't alow for equal opportunities).

Most men thought it was all a bit crap.

For the most part everyone lost out.

The internet made is possible to turn it into a "my high horse is higher than your soapbox contest".

The internet made is possible to turn it into a "my high horse is higher than your soapbox contest".

Whoo hoo! www.myhighhorseishigherthanyours.com is not yet taken. Get on it 😀

Meh. It's not a product I'm likely to buy, the tits probably sligtly put me off in the same manner "hunks" used for advertising do. But then again, I look at porn, so I'm massively hypocritical for not liking objectification of either gender. I could justify it by saying it's the fact it's for unrelated, mainstream things if I wanted, but I'd probably be making excused.

How would you explain it to a young girl or boy as to why you need tits to sell stuff.

As is usual on these threads, it's those throwing around terms like 'professionally offended' who are the only ones appearing outraged. Crap, outdated marketing being called out on being crap and outdated is apparently not ok.

The internet made is possible to turn it into a "my high horse is higher than your soapbox contest".

It's made it possible for people to communicate very easily. You could call it a high horse but that just makes you look foolish.

"It's all very well lots of men declaring themselves not offended by this, but it's also almost completely irrelevant. It has obviously offended a number of female cyclists, which in my view is a bad thing."

I think many of those who'd cry 'oh it's just a bit of fun there's no harm get over yourself' might think want to try to think a bit more carefully about it all. Such 'advertising' objectifies women as men's sexual playthings. There is no link whatsoever, between the 'bunnies' (uurgh!) and the product. Those women are there purely to provoke interest in the stand. It's sexual exploitation of a particularly sad and pathetic manner.

Any Men who don't think there's a problem with using sexual exploitation in this way, might want to think about the facts of rape, sexual abuse and sexual assault of women that happens every single day. And the pressure on young women to conform to a standard of appearance and sexuality. The objectification of women in this way all contributes towards this problem, and the reinforcement in many men's minds that women are objects for sexual gratification, above being people and individuals in their own right.

This is a discussion I'd love to have face-to-face over a pint, but I know that getting involved in this debate on an online forum will only leave me in a grumpy mood.

If I see any of you in the pub after a ride let's pick it up there, eh?

Will this pub have a cardboard display for peanuts, featuring a topless woman; the more peanuts you buy, the more she is revealed?

Why have Eurobike's 'Kelly's girls' never seen an internet backlash? (that I know of)

Many people that would have seen the playboy bunnies at that show, or who are now reporting on the resulting social media reaction, will have seen the Kelly's girls at Eurobike. They're there every year, have been for close to 10 years. I think. Can't say I make a special trip to the stand to see some topless body painting.

PMJ, I think you meant this magazine,

[img] [/img]

*blue touch paper lit, retiring to a safe distance*

[i]*blue touch paper lit, retiring to a safe distance* [/i]

ah, the blue touch paper of a failed image post. That always riles people.

[edit] damn the edit function!

Why have Eurobike's 'Kelly's girls' never seen an internet backlash? (that I know of)

Classic whataboutery! Maybe it's to do with Specialized being a massive international brand? Just a thought.

Urgh, does this mean I have to return my Spesh emtb when it arrives, for fear of being spat on if I ride it? (More so than just because it's an emtb...)

Just out of interest. Is it (the girls selling the bike) OK if the marketing manager of specialized Germany is a woman? LinkedIn suggests this to be the case... Is it the girls selling being exploited, or the men they are (assumedly) selling at?

Classic whataboutery! Maybe it's to do with Specialized being a massive international brand? Just a thought.

Not whataboutery or a justification of Spesh. Simply a comment. Kelly's are very prominent at Europe's largest bike show and have been doing the same thing for a long time, if we're saying scale has relevance.

OK if the marketing manager of specialized Germany is a woman? LinkedIn suggests this to be the case.

jameso - Member

Why have Eurobike's 'Kelly's girls' never seen an internet backlash? (that I know of)

Probably because nobody's heard of em.

Sexism makes me so angry!!!
They are basically saying
"If you ride like a girl, buy an e-bike"

Grrrrrrrrr

It's not just sexist, the whole campaign makes literally no sense whatsoever.

"The Turbo S Edition combines Playboy lifestyle, innovative technology and pure joy of cycling."

What does that even mean? How have they integrated a playboy lifestyle into a bike?

As a brand, Playboy has stood for little less than the promotion of women as dumb, subservient objects of gratification.

That's about it.

I really can't see how anyone could think this association has any positives at all.

Dammit! As if my bike skillz weren't poor enough...

I'm now going to have to learn how do to an "Independent, empowered woman hop" and a "Person-ual"

How have they integrated a playboy lifestyle into a bike

It's a load of *ahem*?

Smacks of desperation by both companies.

Funny how everyone gets in a huff about a Specalized booth in Germany that no one on STW saw, and yet ignores the work they have done over the years of promoting products for women and producing products for women. All the while brands like Cove (and to a lesser extent On-One) continue to produce dubiously named products without a fuss.

Which is going to put a woman off more, a marketing girl or a bike frame with G-Spot, or Blowjob written on it?

Who knows?

Does this make it OK?

Here we are again with the imagined binary choices...

Ah if you didn't see it nothing happened....

The point being a company that has done good work has undone a heap of it.
Nice bit of whataboutary too, its OK to slap her on the arse cause the other bloke did it....