[Closed] Sexism endorsed by singletrackworld

I'd get the kettle put on only she hasn't finished the ironing yet.

My, but you're a happy little [s]troll[/s] camper, aren't you?

Cycle Surgery run these events as many women feel uncomfortable in what is almost always a very male-dominated environment. The events are great fun, and do a great deal to promote cycling for women. That's a good thing.

Oh, and there's cake and fizzy pop as well! Awesome!

Now, stop whining, get back under your bridge and think of something better to troll about.

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I'm not a troll, I just think its a fundamental wrong to be discriminated against just because you happen to be the wrong sex. I personally can't think of any women that would be scared of going into a bike shop, as although they have mainly male staff, they are still people and there to help.

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Am I right in thinking that dudes and dudettes can go to Cycle Surgery whenever they want?
Here is a special event for dudettes only and this is sexist, no?
It's only sexist if you want an event for dudes only, isn't it?
Small pecker?

I'm not a troll,

[img] [/img]

Interesting forum history you have, then...

Well if you aren't a troll then next time insist on paying the Barber £30 for taking half an inch off the ends. It's only fair.

How long have you thought you were the 'wrong sex' for? It's a complicated issue is gender, and I'm surprised more people don't suffer with identity problems like you do.

The Equalities Act forbids discrimination against "protected characteristics", which are defined as age, sex, gender identity, sexuality, religion and one or two others I can't remember.

Whilst it is against the law to discriminate against the "oppressed" in these groups, it is not against the law to "positively discriminate" by, say, only allowing gay people into a gay club or only women into a women-only event.

It's just the way it is (thank goodness)

Rachel

Mrs j is pretty fast and has graced a dozen more podiums than anyone else I ever ride with. She knows her way round a bicycle and a tool kit, and is QOM on strava all over the place.

But she wears floaty dresses and little shoes when she is not on a bike and the level of condescension she gets when she walks into a bike shop at the wrong time is hilarious. My personal favourite being the guy in the local enormo-brand-store who looked her up and down and suggested some nice shoes for spinning classes when she went in to buy some £100 disco slippers for racing in.

There is a girl-only downhill race soon at Hamsterly iirc. Personally I think it's great. And girls, Gawton Gravity Hub and Andy the new owner of Dartmoor Cycles have a big thumbs up from mrs J: recently organised a free (they got some kind of grant for it apparently) DH skillz day for ladies only, and Andy couldn't have been more friendly (in a totally normal non-pervy way!) when she nipped in the shop afterwards.

Team jelly baby, what you say is perfectly true, Cycle surgery are using feminism as a unique way of selling and approaching women to get into cycling, british cycling has the same so does Sustrans,who both organise ladies only rides, and also Bikemagic has its own part of the forums.

Some ladies feel uncomfortable for whatever reason with men, and some just dont fancy men, and like to be surrounded by like minded ladies.

Just perhaps if you want a goodie bag or freebies and a discount, turn up at a cycle surgery in drag, who knows you might even meet a nice lady or man.

Yeah, it's all pretty patronising for us hardcore ladies. 😉

Seriously, why not e-mail them and express your displeasure?

Mrs j is pretty fast and has graced a dozen more podiums than anyone else I ever ride with. She knows her way round a bicycle and a tool kit, and is QOM on strava all over the place.

But she wears floaty dresses and little shoes when she is not on a bike and the level of condescension she gets when she walks into a bike shop at the wrong time is hilarious. My personal favourite being the guy in the local enormo-brand-store who looked her up and down and suggested some nice shoes for spinning classes when she went in to buy some £100 disco slippers for racing in.

She doesn't like me referring to her as "Snookums" to people she doesn't know on the internet. 😛

We're all friends here.
[url= http://www.smiley-faces.org/smiley-faces/smiley-face-whistle-2.gi f" target="_blank">http://www.smiley-faces.org/smiley-faces/smiley-face-whistle-2.gi f"/> [/img][/url]

it is not against the law to "positively discriminate" by, say, only allowing gay people into a gay club

How does that work then? Do you have to have a badge stating your sexuality or something?

As a heterosexual man who has been to quite a few gay clubs/pubs, I have never heard of this at all. I've certainly never been refused entry(!).

He does have a sort of point. As a male, employed, non gay, non child owning, car driving, motorcyle riding, tax paying, cyclist who shoots things everyone is against me. 😥

If shop staff are condescending then don't use the shop, it surly doesn't call for a separate night. I also belong to a minority group being gay, but I don't expect a gay only night in the bike shop caus I'm afraid of going into a bike shop

but I don't expect a gay only night in the bike shop caus I'm afraid of going into a bike shop

Why are you scared of going into a bike shop?

Oh sorry - I didn't mean gay clubs were exclusive, jus tthat they *can* be exclusive if they want to be. As it happens, I'm not a fan of that, either...

Rachel

I can understand group specific shopping events based on pretty much any type - be it gender, sexuality, physical ability etc... I can really see the benefit of making our sport comfortable and unintimidating for all. Offering different prices for exactly the same services or goods from the same vendor on those grounds is wrong though.

As for the £30 haircut argument - simply does not hold water. Both men and women can get cheaper or more expensive haircutting services - paying £30 is your choice based on your preference...

J

I am expected to pay more for [s]goods and services on the basis of[/s] sex

Why mention you are gay (if indeed you are)? Cycling is traditionally a male dominated sport, whereas being gay is largely irrelevant in cycling.
Meaning it's not an issue, before you take umberage.

I think everyone should get a fair crack of the whip, which is why I'm prepared to give you all horas address.

It is discrimination and should be stopped, but we'll start with the big discriminations first, like women getting lower pay for doing the same work, jobs being traditionally done by females paid less than those done by men, and all the other petty, and not so petty injustices that women have been made to endure through the ages. Then we'll work our way down to the small stuff like this.

But how on earth would you be able to exclude non-gay people? Do they have a gaydar scanner on the door? 'Sorry you're too straight you can't come in'.

Why mention you are gay (if indeed you are)? Cycling is traditionally a male dominated sport, whereas being gay is largely irrelevant in cycling.

bollocks, how many cyclists can you name that are gay? if it was so irrelevant, how come more don't come out? we're nearly as bad as footballers

 

Do they have a gaydar scanner on the door?

mikeconner - I've had friends told exactly that. It's kinda hard trying to prove how gay you are!!!!

Whilst it is against the law to discriminate against the "oppressed" in these groups, it is not against the law to "positively discriminate" by, say, only allowing gay people into a gay club or only women into a women-only event.

It's just the way it is (thank goodness)

I've wondered about this "oppressed" bit before. My wife and I have got membership to the local swimming pool and pay the same per month for full access. One night a week is women only night after 8pm. There is no men only night. Like most working folk evenings are the only time I can swim so that's quite a chunk of prime time I am disqualified from yet expected to pay the same. I've never got around to challenging this but a casual enquiry to duty management got a shrug of the shoulders in a that's how it is kind of way. Feels like discrimination to me but the "oppressed" bit above says it might not be.

Or how gay you aren't; being a boy and a nurse..

If you are really interested (and have a *lot* of time to spare) then have a read...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents

I'm lost on this thread...I'm not sure what the issue is as I think the start of the OP's thread was fine, the middle part was fine and the end was fine but when read together it doesn't make sense...

(and yes, I've edited my post as I've no idea what is being ranted about and realised my post didn't make sense either!)

the level of condescension she gets when she walks into a bike shop at the wrong time is hilarious

My best friend's other half designs and builds industrial diesel engines for a living. I've not yet had the pleasure but I'm told watching her dismantle the idiots at the local garages when they say things like "You wouldn't understand it love" is a treat.

mikeconner - I've had friends told exactly that. It's kinda hard trying to prove how gay you are!!!!

They've been refused entry for being straight? I'm sure that's illegal! The worst I've had is 'you do know it's a gay club/pub/night, don't you?'. Never been a problem. I can see that you might get people unwittingly stumbling into a situation they could find uncomfortable, and i can see that clubs want to avoid potential trouble, but surely no club can discriminate on grounds of sexuality? You could never have a club that banned gay people.

mikeconner - no, that's what I'm trying to explain - it's NOT illegal to turn away non-gay people from a gay club.

It WOULD be illegal to turn a gay person away from (a theoretical) straight club for being gay.

Rachel

it's NOT illegal to turn away non-gay people from a gay club.

Because of their sexuality? really? Surely that can't be right?

I dont believe it.

bollocks, how many cyclists can you name that are gay? if it was so irrelevant, how come more don't come out? we're nearly as bad as footballers

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/sick-of-sexual-discrimination-in-bike-events ]Deja vu![/url]

Which races have lower entry fees for the ladies,then? I might buy a wig and a Menstrual Cycle (one of those bikes with the dropped top tube). I sadly already have the boobies. 😳

The Equalities Act forbids discrimination against "protected characteristics", which are defined as age, sex, gender identity, sexuality, religion and one or two others I can't remember.

Whilst it is against the law to discriminate against the "oppressed" in these groups, it is not against the law to "positively discriminate" by, say, only allowing gay people into a gay club or only women into a women-only event.

Rachel (allthegear), that is made up internet misinformation. The Equality Act 2010 (which replaced the Sex Discrimination Act 1976) makes it illegal to discriminate on various grounds (including gender and sexual orientation. Positive discrimination (i.e. discriminating in favour of the 'minority' is and always has (since the 1976 Act) been illegal. Positive action, is however acceptable - which is taking action to address a previous imbalance. The rules for this are quite strict. see here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/158

Certain things such as women only events in cycling are probably acceptable, just as it might be OK for a ballet school to run men's only classes. Differential pricing for the same goods/service is however dodgy territory.

Another case closed by Detective Inspector Squidlord.

poly - yes, sorry, my language was incorrect - positive action, not discrimination.

Much of the act is also really badly open for interpretation, too. What defines positive action is all down to how it is justified. This does make it difficult to tell what is right and what is wrong.

I've missed the biscuits haven't I?
Bugger.... 😥
They wouldn't let me join the school cycling club which I thought was discrimination...the head reckoned the fact I'm 46, never went to the actual school... and the yellow jackets were too small was reason enough..
It's an outrage I tell you 👿

Steel city was £5 cheaper for being a women, and I moaned about that too , but was told as usual it was to encourage women so was fine

Rachel (allthegear), that is made up internet misinformation. The Equality Act 2010 (which replaced the Sex Discrimination Act 1976) makes it illegal to discriminate on various grounds (including gender and sexual orientation. Positive discrimination (i.e. discriminating in favour of the 'minority' is and always has (since the 1976 Act) been illegal. Positive action, is however acceptable - which is taking action to address a previous imbalance. The rules for this are quite strict. see here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/158

I do know that there are times when you can positively discriminate in employment such as a female prision officer for a female prision but htey are few and far between and you have to have very good reason so im not convinced that a gay clib could turn you away for being straight (but they can just refuse you entry for other reasons).

So much to go for in the other thread, but I don't want to resurrect it.

teamjellybabies - Member

Steel city was £5 cheaper for being a women, and I moaned about that too , but was told as usual it was to encourage women so was fine

teamjellybabies, when a race does cost the same for ladies and gents, do you complain if the men's prizes are bigger/better too? Or do you complain if the women's prize is not reduced in value in proportion to the smaller number of racers or because they do one lap less? 😕 My head hurts.

if I was allowed to race against the ladies, I'd be consistently top three. I demand my rights to race in the female class!

teamjellybabies, you like moaning about women don't you?

I think positive discrimination is ok if the outcome is to actually help encourage/create better equality and fairness as well as increasing participation.

So it is actually illegal to refuse entry to non-gays then?

Don't like moaning about women, just don't like discrimination, and as for race prizes, all the races I enter women have the same prizes as men.

a gay club wouldnt need to refuse entry because someone is straight, every club ive been to (and shops too) usually reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, and they dont need to give a reason for it.

AFAIK, ive been wrong before like.

teamjellybabies - Member

I enter women

Thought you said you were gay?

I've never entered a women :-p lol

And the chicks get it easy at the races too, with fewer laps, which is not only easier, but also gives them more beer time. And then they drink halves which is just a wasted opportunity.

On a more serious note...

SSUK at Bristol bike fest back in 2007 ish. The 12 hour enduro ladies winning team won a set of pedros brushes, split up so they got a brush each... What every girl wants, a brush.

As a ss racer I got a customised stem cap with my name, a nice beer glass, free beer,and a BBQ... And that's for coming 120th or something crap like that.

Pah... I doubt any women that go to one of these evenings are 'scared' of men. I'm bored of meeting men on the trail and shops who offer unwelcome patronising advice telling me I need to buy something for £300 when I fully know what is wrong and it will cost around £20 to put right.

teamjellybabies, you like moaning, don't you?

He's got a point though! It's the thin end of the wedge! It's starts with encouraging girlees, but before you know it people will be demanding utterly crazy stuff like equal rights for Gingers! Madness!

before you know it people will be demanding utterly crazy stuff like equal rights for Gingers! Madness!

You know what's coming don't you? 😉

www.binnerstshirts.com

You only need to check out Chain Reaction to see the impressive deals they do for outsize clothing which is often much cheaper than an M or an L if you're looking to restore some demographic bias back in favour of the paunchy, middle aged male keyboard warrior.

I'm a ginger too :-O

Steel city was £5 cheaper for being a women, and I moaned about that too

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/sick-of-sexual-discrimination-in-bike-events ]Yes we noticed.[/url] You don't seem that quick at learning though.

You only need to check out Chain Reaction to see the impressive deals they do for outsize clothing which is often much cheaper than an M or an L if you're looking to restore some demographic bias back in favour of the paunchy, middle aged male keyboard warrior.

Though being a skinny middle aged keyboard warrior (who occasionally rides cycles, and even more occasionally rides them fast) with little feet I also often tend to do quite well out of such special offers.

[i]I'm a ginger too :-O[/i]

I don't mind you being ginger and your sexuality is of no consequence, but give over moaning about women! 😀

teamjellybabies - Member
If shop staff are condescending then don't use the shop, it surly doesn't call for a separate night. I also belong to a minority group being gay, but I don't expect a gay only night in the bike shop caus I'm afraid of going into a bike shop

.........................................................

I hardly think being gay is a minoritoy group , having been at Pride in Liverpool at the weekend, loads of you about, a prooud weekend for the city.

i love singletrackworld.com

why the f*** does someone getting something you're not bother you so much?

mrs aa's getting 12 months off off mat leave, I'm not gonna cry to the equalities commision that i only got 2 weeks off.

grow up, sometimes ou win, sometimes you lose.

anything to get more women into/onto bikes has got to be a good thing.

stop griping man.

anything to get more women into/onto bikes has got to be a good thing.

Why? If woman choose other activities or no activities rather than cycling that is their choice. I don't see any merit in greater numbers of female cyclists.

Maybe we could have a whip-round to get him his five pounds back? Everyone on this thread could chip in 20p. (Or 10p for ladies).

I'll throw in 15p, if you don't mind?

I suggest you enter the events anyway.
Like the gay nightclub analogy I doubt they could refuse your entry.
Just in case they ask for proof have a prepared [url= http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=man-gina ]man-gina[/url] handy!

team jelly babies is from Liverpol, and theyre always protesting that someone got more than them.

They carry more chips on their shoulder than a chipshop chip fryer with a twitch.

why should i throw in 10p, then i'll be worse off than someone who didn't chip in.

irc - it's a male dominated sport/pastime. a greater variety of participants will bring many positives to us all.

As a real life example of being a female cyclist:

When I ride with my local road club, I am the only woman, in a group of 30-40 guys. They're all great, but it's pretty intimidating to begin with, and even though I'm now comfortable with holding my own in the group, sometimes I feel self-conscious and that I stick out like a sore thumb.

So every month I organise a 'women's ride' for the club, and because they didn't feel like they'd be the only one, quite a few women come along. To be honest, it's great to have other girls to ride with occassionally, we talk about stuff that wouldn't be relevant to guys, and it gives us a more level playing field to compare our relative abilities. Plus it acts as an 'icebreaker' for the main club.

So, no I don't see 'women only' cycling events as discrimination - maybe you guys just don't really understand what it's like being a woman who rides bikes (and often the only one in the group!). And yes, they do help to encourage more women to get into cycling, so hopefully in the future they'll be an equal proportion of girls taking part and there'll be no need for women only cycling events.

Heres a linky to cycle surgery womens nights

http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/cycle-surgery-womens-nights/