[Closed] selfish pedestrians on shared use paths

You can do 17mph on a unicycle?!

you met some people, that's what you did wrong

This is one of my favourite bugbears. I often use a shared use path to get out to the Peaks through local parks. The path is clearly marked with bike signs and a solid white line and only occupies a quarter to a third of the whole path at most. Yet there is always somebody wandering about in the cycle path , or their dog is but on the end of one of those retractable leads. I always slow and smile politely but still get abuse for wanting to proceed on my side of the path .
Blarrrgh!

Perhaps stop and let them pass, with a cheery Hello and a smile. Works for me.

Squirt them with your joke squirty flower then maybe throw a bucketful of glitter paper at them? Were you in full makeup or just in shoes, nose and wig?

PJ266 you win, I had a little bet with myself that would be the first reply! Yes I can, set a new pb for 500m today of 1:10 which is just under 16mph average (not on that path)

FOG the thing is this is an extremely rare thing for me riding a unicycle, most people do get their dogs out of the way

I think you have to accept that most humans are really not that intelligent and cannot be rationally reasoned with. They act selfishly and irrationally because they are too stupid to do otherwise.

Sadly, the one thing humans are really good at is tricking themselves into thinking they are cleverer than they really are. Plenty of examples to choose from.

I was down at Hastings last weekend. The seafront has a bike lane that is between 1/4 and 1/6 of the total available width. Quite a few people decided they should walk in the bike lane, especially one group of chunkies. I just put it down to them being eigits but at least there is space to ride round them.

You were on a unicycle.
You were looking for attention and got it.
Go home and be happy. 😡

I was down at Hastings last weekend. The seafront has a bike lane that is between 1/4 and 1/6 of the total available width. Quite a few people decided they should walk in the bike lane, especially one group of chunkies. I just put it down to them being eigits but at least there is space to ride round them.

I don't moan at folk in the lane, as it means people would focus on me being only in the lane. Use the whole lot.

It always amazes me how quick people are to complain about cyclists on the pavement but then they walk right down the middle of a shared use foot/cyclepath and seem surprised to encounter cyclists.

You were looking for attention and got it.

Yeah at least I have more gears than him

We made the mistake of trying to cycle along the Prom last week (half term). It may be shared use, but I reckon the pedestrians had the Critical Mass!! The tram lines can sometimes make a suitable alternative route.

Quite a high %age of people are self centred and don't consider others (IMO of course).

Offroad trails in the sticks FTW.

singlespeedstu is a fake nevers rides one these days!

people don't expect to be challenged for their behaviour by other members of the public these days so when they are they automatically become defensive.
it's not pedestrians, it's just people.

Did you ask them where the picture of the cars are on roads, or pedestrians on pavements?

😳 at Rich.

Singlespeeds ain't flouro yellow shorts enough for me these days. 😛
TBF Rich I did manage to dig one out of the garage to attend SSUK...

I commute on a shared use path alongside a university.

Shared use, students, how bad can it be?

The intellectual elite who are going on to rule the world are, on the whole, as thick as shit.

It's Chimps vs Chimp. Their ego's vs yours. You'll never win, because they don't realise what they're doing, and cannot control their reactions. Remind yourself in the future that you can't expect them to move for you, and you won't be disappointed when they don't. We've all been there, and then when the air clears and dust settles, all pails into insignificance and you chuckle to yourself that they are in fact ignorant, and you are better than them.

Or just start windmilling and speed up, and video it on a go-pro for us all to watch!

It's a shared use path.......just chill a bit.
I expect pedestrians to cross in front and dogs to run across at the last moment; I see as many inconsiderate cyclists on shared use paths as I do pedestrians.

somewhere on mobilityscootertrackworld theres a post that starts

all unicyclists are *****

Try the Thames path. 8 pedestrians wide and still they won't move over no matter how polite I am. The thread title is bang on.

I commute on a shared use path alongside a university.

Shared use, students, how bad can it be?

The intellectual elite who are going on to rule the world are, on the whole, as thick as shit.

What he said.^^

I also can never decide what to do if pedestrians are walking in the cycle lane. If I move onto the foot path section to go round them they always seem to lurch across into my path as I get close and then tut at me as I am now on the walking section... If you head straight at them you appear like some angry militant type cyclist and a bit of a twunt. Can't win either way even if it's them causing re issue to begin with.

I pacify myself these days, repeating "They don't realise it's a cycle path" in my head as I approach. So I slow down, give a cheery 'good morning' and get on with my life. Same on canal towpaths. Life's too short.

Any dog off a lead is fair game, mind you.

Perhaps stop and let them pass, with a cheery Hello and a smile. Works for me.

If you learn one thing from STW it is surely that no matter how wrong and unreasonable a person is they will do only two things
1. Fail to see this]
2. Argue it to death.

I therefore choose to mutter swear words under my breath whilst doing nothing. It snot like they will ever listen pr be persuaded by reason is it.

On the shared Sustrans route I commute on, it's usually Dog walkers with their 80ft dog leads taking up all of the path. I usually get daggers or chunnering from them? Makes me chuckle, as you get moaned at if you are on the roads paid for by "road tax" or if you use the designated paths. People are idiots!!!

And why is it that pedestrian groups always split in the middle and leave not quite enough room through the centre?

And why is it that pedestrian groups always split in the middle and leave not quite enough room through the centre?

So you can double high 5 as you go through!!

And why is it that pedestrian groups always split in the middle and leave not quite enough room through the centre?

it's either that, or mavis pulls arthurs arm to get him to step to one side and they end up doing the swapping sides of the path dance.

Any dog off a lead is fair game, mind you.

and yes I did ride off that time where the dog's** paws went under my front wheel, but fortunately not right under, only under the edge.

* is accident the right word if an owner's dog is not under control and runs in to me?
**curly haired white mongrel

I was under the impression that pedestrians always have the right of way on a shared use path - is that not correct?

is that not correct?

Taken from an article on bikehub.co.uk -

Many cycle lanes can now be found on footways, with signage and markings telling cyclists and pedestrians the route is for ‘shared use’. Cyclists must not assume this means they have right of way on the cycle ‘half’ of the shared-use facility. According to this Code of Conduct from the Department of Transport, cyclists should “always respect pedestrians even if they stray onto the cycling side (if there is one); they are entitled to do so. Always thank people who move out of your way.”

[quote=billytinkle ]I was under the impression that pedestrians always have the right of way on a shared use path - is that not correct?

Eve if that is the case and they have the right to prevent you from passing, they're still selfish if they do that (as per the title) and a dog which runs in front of you is still not in control.

Though when they come out with stuff about going too fast when you're only doing 10mph (when approaching, I'd slowed to ~5 when I was going past them) despite being completely incapable of judging what speed I was doing and that bikes aren't allowed despite all the bike route signs they've passed then they're clearly just stupid. I do wonder whether he looked at the sign further up as I suggested and realised he was wrong...

Here is where that advice comes from and it is "suggested"
Really WTF is the point giving us a cycle lane painting pedestrians on one side and cycles on the other if they can just use both?
[img] [/img]
FWIW I would imagine almost everyone is ignorant of this fact - I certainly was

The following key messages are suggested as the basis for a code of conduct notice for cyclists. The code could be posted at points of entry and at intervals along the route. This will be especially useful when the facility is new.

If a feature segregating cyclists from pedestrians is present, keep to the cyclist's side. This will be indicated on blue and white road signs and by cycle logos on the surface.
Ride on the left hand side of the area available to you. If you need to overtake another cyclist, give a gentle ring on your bell or say 'Excuse me'.
When coming up behind pedestrians, always pass them at a safe distance, and slowly enough so that you could avoid them if they made a sudden change in direction.
Remember that some pedestrians may be hard of hearing or visually impaired and hence might not be aware of you. If in doubt, give a gentle ring on your bell or say 'Excuse me'.
Always respect pedestrians even if they stray onto the cycling side (if there is one); they are entitled to do so. Always thank people who move out of your way.
Ride at a sensible speed for the situation and ensure you can stop in time. As a general rule, if you want to cycle quickly, say in excess of 18 mph/30 kph, then you should be riding on the road.
Use lights at night.
In pedestrianised areas, only ride your cycle if there aren't too many pedestrians about; otherwise dismount and push it. When visiting shops etc, park your cycle so that people will not trip over it; use formal cycle parking if available.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20090902220008/http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/archive/2004/ltnwc/annexdcodeofconductnoticefor1688

Dog walkers with their 80ft dog leads taking up all of the path.

I once experienced this on the road. Guy on mobile phone, looking the other way, paying no attention whatsoever. Dog at opposite side of the road. Extendible lead stretched across the centre! Quiet country lane, but still...they were both stood on the opposite verges.

Shared paths though. Some people are ignorant. But also, some people are just unaware. And why should they be? They're out for a walk, enjoying the outdoors. It's not a road. It's not a cycle path. It's a shared path. For people riding bikes, dawdling, walking dogs, or doing whatever it is they care to do. They're frustrating places to ride at times, but I think you just have to accept them and slow down....stop if you have to. Say hello and continue on your way.

I did almost say something once mind. When I was forced to stop as a group of about 10 joggers approached across a viaduct, 10 abreast.... I thought that was taking the piss a bit.

Normal distribution says around half the people you meet will be below average intelligence. Even the intelligent ones can be ignorant...

The Dunning Kruger effect says there's no point debating people's mistakes with them... read up on it 🙂

+ tbf, shared use paths are rubbish infrastructure with conflict designed in. They're rarely signed or marked out well enough for non-cyclists to have a scooby where they're supposed to walk.

IMO you're better off just holding your tongue in these situations, your day will be better for it

at Junkyard on page 1....

The phenomenon was first tested in a series of experiments published in 1999 by David Dunning and Justin Kruger of the Department of Psychology, Cornell University.[2][3] The study was inspired by the case of McArthur Wheeler, a man who robbed two banks after covering his face with lemon juice in the mistaken belief that, as lemon juice is usable as invisible ink, it would prevent his face from being recorded on surveillance cameras.[4]

I am impressed he managed to both think that and rob two banks

I have been riding the shared use sea wall path from Keyhaven to Lymington for 35 years and after a fair number of incidents with walkers realised something that I wished I had known for all my life.

What I realised was that 1/3 of people are shits. It is as simple as that. 2/3 will smile, say hellow, even keep a gate open for you. But 1/3 will rather have a go at you even though they are out walking through beautiful salt marsh countryside, birds all around and the Solent with sail boats everywhere.

If someone had a go at me, I used to brood on it, and try to thing of a response I should have given. But now I simply laugh to myself, and say, yes 1/3 of people really are shits.

Just the other day a woman, they are mostly women, had a go at me about riding on the sea wall. She claimed she had read the sign which said it was not a cycling path. I explained she did not read the rest of the sign which explained that it was a permissive path and cycling is allowed but they must take care.

She just refused to accept this. I asked what was the matter with her, why did she have to attack a cyclist. Her husband joined in to say they were cyclists. I could not believe this, flabbergasted. She still having a go at me, I turned to him and expressed my regret that he was married to such a miserable cow, and that I felt sorry for him.

Just a few yards further was another sign saying cyclists please take care. Proving just a few yards on that I was correct.

I wish I had know all my life that 1/3 are shits. My life would have been so much easier, and I would have found dealing with people I just could not understand so much easier.

There's recently been a fantastic shared use path put in linking two towns on the edge of Dartmoor. In parts it's not very wide, only just two bikes width really, so coming at about 15mph towards two older pedestrians walking away from me side by side I decided to pass about 3m to one side on the grass.

This got me yelled at by the old man, so I pulled to a stop about 15m further along to question 'why?' Before I could say anything he threatened to put his walking stick through my spokes 'next time'.

I scooted back to them and asked what they felt I'd done wrong. Bottom line was I'd scared them. They hadn't heard me coming and despite the clearance. I'd given them they'd been frightened and the old boy admitted he shouldn't have ranted.

I learned to slow and say hello, even if I can keep my speed and pass anyway, and they learned cyclists are prepared to apologise and listen.

If I want a no compromises quicker ride I'll go elsewhere in the future. Shared use has its uses but it needs give and take to work.

They were correct.
It's a path for pedestrians and bicycles. Not unicycles.

Welcome to the world of transport limbo. Meet Segway.

Also, just in general I always slow down a lot to pass people, say "bring bring", smile and say "hello" or "thanks" as I pass.
It is quite easy to unwittingly scare a pedestrian - same way a car passing close to a bike scares us even though they don't realise.

Shared use needs a bell. It's amazing how often walkers complain I have no bell, when in fact I do have a bell, but try not to,use it because it seems rude when in fact walkers really do seem to prefer a good bell ring from some distance away so they know you are not about to run them down and they have time to respond.
I feel I am demanding they move and am happy to take time to pass slowly, but they seem to prefer my using the bell.

Shared use needs a bell.

they seem to prefer my using the bell.

They were correct.
It's a path for pedestrians and bicycles. Not unicycles.

Up until 1994, a cycle was defined as a bicycle, tricycle, or cycle having four or more wheels, not being in any case a motor vehicle. A unicycle seemed to be exempt from many laws applicable to bicycles.
However in 1994 the law changed, with Statutory Instrument 1994 No. 1519: The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 1994. In Part 1, Section 1 (Preliminary), Item 4 (Interpretation general) it states: “pedal cycle” means a unicycle, bicycle, tricycle, or cycle having four or more wheels, not being in any case mechanically propelled unless it is an electrically assisted pedal cycle of such class as is to be treated as not being a motor vehicle for the purposes of the 1984 Act.

^^^ this contrary to what the fashion victims would have you believe a ting bell/horn or a old school ringing bell are essential if you are using a shared path. A couple or rings as you approach from behind and they move to one side combined with a cheers as you go past and off you go.

I learnt a long time ago that if somebody is being a grumpy argumentative sod just be full of the joys of spring and bouncy about how nice it is to be outside and to ignore their moaning and if you are feeling in a mischievous mood talk over them as they start to rant about how you saw a rare bird plant etc it will drive them nuts and will shut them up. Don't let them drag you down to their level and spoil your day

Quality trollage.
Slow down and stop showing off. 😀

talk over them as they start to rant about how you saw a rare bird plant etc

I'm confused about the bell. Are you suggesting it's useful to use a bell when you're approaching people coming towards you who can see from such further away than they can heat your bell? Will this stop them deliberately obstructing you because they incorrectly think you're not supposed to be there?

When approaching people from behind I sometimes call out "ding ding" and always seem to get a positive reaction (and is audible f from much further away than a bell)

[list]Approaching from behind, nice loud single ding.

If group busy talking and not aware of you, nice loud single ding.

If you had a proper bike with handlebars you could fit a bell..although nothing stopping you just carrying a handlebar with a bell fixed to it.
It can obviously be used to ward off lemming type pedestrians, with a swinging motion..

Personally I don't use a bell, if they don't hear my hope freehub then a nice long skid gets their attention.

aracer - Member
...Flame away. What did I do wrong?

Try wearing a Freddy Kruger mask and brandishing a sabre. 🙂

people don't expect to be challenged for their behaviour by other members of the public these days so when they are they automatically become defensive.

Indeed. I had the pleasure of being able to explain to a rather large chap in a flash motor that passing as close as he did was quite scary. Once he'd got out of his car and around to my side, he defensively stuck his 50 inch perfume-soaked chest right in my face whilst mumbling about 'cyclist can't' or something along those lines...

Whilst I agree that cyclists should be considerate towards pedestrians, I'm constantly bemused by the following scenario...

Riding along one of my local Sustrans routes, staying to the left, on a wide straight section, with clear sight for about a mile. There is a group of people walking towards me, strung out across the entire width of the path. [u]If[/u] and when they finally notice my presence, they all move to the same side of the path as me (i.e. their right)

Now, on the law of averages, some of them must be drivers, so you'd kind of expect them to follow accepted norms and move over to their left.
Even if they're all non-drivers, you'd think that survival instinct would cause them to move out of the way of the impending danger (even if it was on percieved danger, because I has slowed right down and made sure that there was plenty of room for us to pass by each other safely)

People are just strange, I suppose.

P.S.Why is it that, on my local shared use paths, the broken glass is unerringly on the cycle side of the path.

Even though we drive on the left people seem to like being on the right. I've noticed this is many situations. Maybe, on this one point, the Euros are right.

I surely can't be the only one who meets other cyclists on paths like this who want to ride on the right (had one about 5 minutes earlier).

As someone pointed out on the first page, you were clearly looking for a confrontation, and you got one. What's the problem?

Anything like this can be avoided, you just have to say nothing and carry on, by arguing with them you haven't achieved anything constructive just re-enforced opinion and stereotypes.

I used to argue with ignorant peds. and walkers, but there's really absolutely no point.

Now, on the law of averages, some of them must be drivers, so you'd kind of expect them to follow accepted norms and move over to their left.

This is the thing. Most of us on bikes are thinking from some kind of roadcraft perspective. At least those of us who ride bikes a lot, labour over them, post on forums about them and all that kind of stuff. People out for a walk are generally in a completely different mindset, no different from if they were on the pavement or walking through a field: they're just walking.

I surely can't be the only one who meets other cyclists on paths like this who want to ride on the right (had one about 5 minutes earlier).

Similarly, not all cyclists drive, or ride on the road, or even care.

These incidents happen but no one is really looking for them.
How we react may vary but this does not make them any more or less likely to happen.

FWIW I dont think it is arguing but I do agree its pointless saying anything

[quote=nickc ]As someone pointed out on the first page, you were clearly looking for a confrontation, and you got one. What's the problem?
Anything like this can be avoided, you just have to say nothing and carry on

Did they? I think you're the first as everybody else realised I just wanted to go for a ride. In case you missed it I couldn't just carry on as I'd had to stop and dismount. On the contrary I'm fairly sure it was the peds who were after a confrontation and I made the mistake of giving them one (didn't realise at the time it was deliberate).

This is certainly the first time I've had such a confrontation whilst out riding my uni, but then it's the first time I've ever been forced to dismount by other people being selfish (probably a few times due to other people not being aware, but that's a totally different situation).

I think you have to accept that most humans are really not that intelligent and cannot be rationally reasoned with. They act selfishly and irrationally because they are too stupid to do otherwise.

More of less sums it up. I am self-consciously super-polite and thankful to pedestrians and equestrians who do the right thing - bit of good public relations and hope they will pass it on.

When faced with selfish / foolish individuals I usually come to a complete stop and give them a hard stare. Point made, but no need to get into pointless discussion. Does help that I'm a hairy ginger tank, mind.

Sorry to hear about your spot of bother.

People out for a walk are generally in a completely different mindset, no different from if they were on the pavement or walking through a field: they're just walking.

Similarly, not all cyclists drive, or ride on the road,

or even care.

[i] On the contrary I'm fairly sure it was the peds who were after a confrontation and I made the mistake of giving them one (didn't realise at the time it was deliberate).[/i]

well, now you know, and you won't make that mistake again. In any case, do we really have the right to not have things get in our way that we have to give way to?

In any case, do we really have the right to not have things get in our way that we have to give way to?

Well, it would appear that some pedestrians do.

Mostly I think peds probably have that right, get on board anything that goes faster than walking speed, and I reckon the onus is you to give way.

I was wheeling my road bike down some steps onto a shared use trail when a woman who was also walking down the steps make some very loud comments about hating cyclists. I wasn't even doing anything that could've been deemed a nuisance. I just gave her my Paddington Bear hard stare.

Aracer - you should write to your MP and demand action, here's a draft you can have for free

Dear Rupert (or whatever your f***ing name is),

Summet happened today and I wasn't best chuffed. You need to pull your finger out sunshine.

Yours Humbly and Respectfully

Aracer.

The End.

In any case, do we really have the right to not have things get in our way that we have to give way to?

If that gives them the right to completely block a path which is wide enough for me to pass them if they show a bit of consideration then presumably not. I'm not sure the requirement to "respect them" or any other rules about priority on shared use paths gives than that right, but I'll allow it as a possibility for the sake of argument.

Because even if they do have that right then it is still selfish (as in the thread title) and rude to do so.

Though of course if it hadn't been for the dog I'd have just ridden by tutting, and I'm fairly sure I have the right not to have an out of control dog run in front of me.

[img] [/img]

@thestabiliser [b]her[/b] name is Harriet, and I won't be wasting my time expecting her to do anything useful about anything. Though I suppose actually it wasn't in her constituency anyway.

A WOMAN?!!! The worlds gone mad.

Yeah, before you know it they'll be letting them become Prime Minister, and I'm sure that will upset a lot of people.

Mostly I think peds probably have that right, get on board anything that goes faster than walking speed, and I reckon the onus is you to give way.

Mostly I think peds probably have that right, get on board anything that goes faster than walking speed, and I reckon the onus is you to give way.

This is fine, but surely it doesn't mean nobody has to give a stuff about common courtesy?
I ride to work through a park and often come across big clumps of people spread across the entire path, which is wide enough for about 5 or 6 people to pass comfortably. If somebody [i]needs[/i] to give way then I accept that should be me. But it does get my goat when the group can see me coming from miles away and could easily arrange themselves into a differently shaped clump that means there's room for everyone to go happily on their way- but they don't.
I'm not talking about wanting to go blatting through without having to slow down or anything, just a bit of give and take.

When people don't do this it's just really inconsiderate and selfish IMO. Shared use paths would be much better places for everybody if everyone was a little less wrapped up in themselves and aware of what's going on around them.

Can we have a quick synopsis please?

Can we have a quick synopsis please?

I was reasonably sympathetic until I realised this was a unicycle story.

😉

I think peds probably have that right, get on board anything that goes faster than walking speed, and I reckon the onus is you to give way

All it requires is a little consideration form both sides. When one side does not have it you get issues. To always blame the faster mode of transport is a strange one.
It is far easier to step sideways on foot than on a bike.