[Closed] Self preservation: Hans Dampf on the front

Thoughts?

It's off-road riding on a two wheeled, inherently unstable contraption.

You don't get the luxury of 100% certainly that it won't happen again. You get the knowledge that irrespective of what tyres you run, you will 100% fall again at some point.

Well... I used to ride HDs and always thought they were OK..but since sticking a maxxis on the front I've realised the HD was actually pretty shocking.
The chunky monkey would be much better, i suspect.

You may still die to death though...

DrP

The CM can clog and slide out in certain consistencies of slop, IME.

Just to add to your anxiety.

I always go as soft and sticky as reasonable on the front. It has a much smaller effect on rolling resistance than the rear and I still (nearly) always wear the rear out first. I'd always the rear break away then the front and figure the front has a harder job to do anyway.

Doesn't totally stop me falling off though.

Were you braking when it happened? Off camber?

Sounds painful, hope you are on the mend.

I really like a Hans Dampf up front. But for me its more of a heavy duty xc trail tyre. I find the grip good but on fast loose stuff it does get a bit squirrely and at times you can loose grip quickly but it is possible to get back under control as quick. I really like tyres that gradually let go so you get some warning and that is what i find with the HD. That's the old trailstar version in 29 flavour.

Magic Mary maybe?

edit - they clog up really bad in mud too

I've just put a HD on the front of my Solaris, it's great, I love it!

Addix soft compound though.

As a fellow southerner, I've a very healthy respect for chalk. Even in dry weather, it can be an unpredictable surface. I haven't ridden at Aston Hill for a few years but there was an off-camber chalk section that always threw me, no matter what regardless of the time of year.

I live in Kent, roughly a third of my local loop is on chalky soil, with a fairly long run downhill on flinty chalk. In the cooler months it's bloody lethal - I've been known to do the entire stretch dapping carefully on my brakes, the sudden loss of any feeling through the bars is disconcerting.

Soft rubber does help, I've never ridden with Schwalbe tyres so I can't comment about compounds or tread patterns.

Hope that you're healed soon.

I had a bit of an off 9 weeks ago, that has lead to the ball joint facturing from my humerus.

Sorry to take your thread off at a tangent.... Hope you're recovering well, I feel your pain, quite literally. I had an off almost 10 weeks ago and did the same to my humerus. I can't blame tyres for my off, so I'm blaming it on suspension setup (I was dialling in a new linkage/shock settings), nothing to do with going too fast or my lack of skills 😀 I'm a about 2 weeks sling free and started physio almost two weeks ago. Feels like it's going to be a long recovery to get back on the bike. How are you progressing?

On the subject of tyres I do like plenty of front end grip and my front tyre of choice is a Magic Mary soft. I haven't run a HD at all so can't comment with any authority, but It's not a tyre I'd choose for the front of a trail bike. Also not ridden the South Downs chalk so no idea what works there. Not much help I'm afraid 🙂

get a mary on the front.

It was off camber ... not braking ... in fact stomping onthe pedals to go up hill, and turning ...
Mark 90 ... as my wife said "it's self inflicted". Didn't help that I had just had the shoulder operated on twice to releive a frozen shoulder. It was the day after the final physio for that ...
I was in a sling for 5 weeks ... i also manages to impact the head "down", so my inner arm is now around 10mm shorter! It is healing - went out on the bile a week ago ... and boy , did it hurt the following day. Oddly some of that may be down to Frozn shoulder.

After 8 or so weeks , i can just about walk my arm up a wall, but not so it is vertical... and to the side it is still impossible.
Oddly turning the indicators on in a car hurts!!

But unlike you I am 59 so it will be a while.

off to put the CM on ... clogging is not a huge issue on my normal sides in the summer ..

I have had Hans Dampf on the back for the last few years.  I see it as a decent trail rear tyre and have always used in combination with a Magic Mary front tyre in a softer compound.  As such it works well in my typical riding of rock, sandy soil, loam and gravel.  Chalk is a different beast though!

Sounds horrendous...

off to put the CM on … clogging is not a huge issue on my normal sides in the summer.

Apologies, I live in Scotland so summer can involve lots of mud, bogs etc.

Magic Mary (soft compound) on the front for me, made me feel massively more in control although it's a bit slower than the HD it replaced.

Minions

I run an HD on the front and a Racing Ralph on the back. The front letting go first has never been a problem.

Oh man that must be so frustrating coming straight after another injury. Encouraging that you're back on the bike already. I still can't reach a handle bar, or gear stick, or indicator yet. Starting to see some progress from the physio, but it's slow going, at almost 46 I'm no spring chicken either.

Minions

Just watched Cathrovision and it seems Finn Iles agrees. He appears to be running de-badged Minions over Specialized's offerings.

In my experience changing tyres adds 'a bit' of extra resistance to front washing out, but not a huge amount. What makes the difference is the experience to put your weight in the right place and to be able to predict when something's wrong and you're at risk of washing out or it's imminent so you can brace for impact.

Just watched Cathrovision and it seems Finn Iles agrees. He appears to be running de-badged Minions over Specialized’s offerings.

Interesting. I found the Butcher looked like a Minion but had scarily inconsistent grip and loved washing out. Maybe he agrees.

In my experience changing tyres adds ‘a bit’ of extra resistance to front washing out, but not a huge amount. What makes the difference is the experience to put your weight in the right place and to be able to predict when something’s wrong and you’re at risk of washing out or it’s imminent so you can brace for impact.

You don't get much warning when things go wrong on chalk ime, good technique or not. Tbh, I'd fit something like a Super Tacky Minion DHF if only for psychological reassurance. The last thing you want to be doing after a big crash is worrying about whether it's going to happen again. And fwiw, Maxxis just seems to have its compounds dialled in a way that most other brands don't. Even the standard trail compounds grip well.

Tbh, I’d fit something like a Super Tacky Minion DHF if only for psychological reassurance. The last thing you want to be doing after a big crash is worrying about whether it’s going to happen again.

Point is it doesn't matter what's on your front, it'll always happen again if you do the wrong thing again. Tyres are only part of the equation. You can make it less likely, but you always have to be worrying about it, that's how you avoid it and stay upright. The reason I rarely crash these days is I've crashed every which way in the past and my unconscious mind remembers it.

Point is it doesn’t matter what’s on your front, it’ll always happen again if you do the wrong thing again.

It's not black and white though is it. If you have a grippier front tyre, you can push it harder before it washes out. It's a bit of both.

Hammering uphill? No weight on the front on an off camber bit perhaps?

Heal fast!

I pulled something in my shoulder going for a quick test ride with grippier tyres on after riding on xc race tyres for a little while. I may have got a bit over-excited and had a big crash on an easy section of trail.

On the other hand, I can find grip and corner almost as fast with the XC race tyres on, there's no massive step off in ability of tyres, just a bigger zone of practically no grip when it comes to wet rocks, roots etc. and a bit less grip in sloppy stuff.

Bike tyres are all about compromise. A soft MM is good, I'm sure various other soft compound tyres are good (the best I remember for my local trails was a super tacky swampthing), no idea about chunky monkey. But you'll then ride faster and still fall off eventually.

tried a CM on the front of my 26er. it threatened to dump me on my arse a number of times, then did so a number of times. it came off. and now i run..... hans dampf. 🙂
flint with loam/peat/roots. i have also been happy with bontrager XR4, minion DHF, spesh butcher. HTH.

It’s also a mindset thing. Once you have had a big off you will ride more conservatively with the thought in the back of your mind of crashing again & 9 times out of 10 you will, body tense etc. Exactly same mindset in snowboarding regarding catching an edge! The more you think & worry about it guaranteed you will catch an edge & crash. Learn to relax & trust your equipment more will result in less crashes.

It’s not black and white though is it. If you have a grippier front tyre, you can push it harder before it washes out. It’s a bit of both.

Well how do you explain some people on here saying HD's are crap yet some pro's ride HD's and hammer the hell out of the trail? 99% skills I'd say. Also reminds me of one of my riding mates who is always on a tight budget so always buys used knackered gear including crappy tyres from brands you've never heard of out of the bargain bin in the pound shop and he still gives us a good schooling out on the trails.

I ran HD's up from and NN on the rear for a few years with no issues, I really liked that setup. the rear would always break first but I feel more comfortable with the rear end being a bit wayward.

Since moved to Maxxis setup as Schwalbe's were stupidly tight on my current wheels and really struggled to get tyres on and off....even using the central depression feature. The Maxxis are nice and loose and can be put on without the use of tyre levers. They're just as good as the previous set up but wouldn't say they are better or worse.

Well how do you explain some people on here saying HD’s are crap yet some pro’s ride HD’s and hammer the hell out of the trail? 99% skills I’d say.

Maybe personal preference? I know really fast, skillful riders who are super fussy about tyre choice and ones who aren't.Depends what suits your particular riding style and terrain and the way your head works.

I'm just saying that different tyres feel and are grippier or not. It matters to some people and not to others. Everyone's different.

Put a dhf, dhr2 or assegai on the front. Magic Mary or a wild enduro front could be an option as well.

Hans dampf for the rear or not at all.

A massive knobbly sticky front tyre is is not the answer for South Downs’ XC. Judicious line choice on chalk is!

I think these things are all relative to riding conditions and locations.

The Dampf is intended as an all-rounder so it’s not surprising there are extremes it fails at. I was always happy with a stickier Trailstar Dampf up front, BUT South Downs chalk isn’t in my riding and it’s pretty lethal when wet anyway.

Reasonable tyre in the wrong place, I think.

Just had a look ... it is trail star compound. I guess it is just shit technique on my behalf, not the tyre ....

We all come a cropper sometimes, don't overthink it.

Do you have plenty of near misses with that tyre as well? If not, just carry on as you were.

You could run ice spikes and still slide out on damp South Downs chalk.

I ran a Chunky Monkey on my 29er this winter though and it wasn’t too bad, didn’t notice much clogging up and it gripped well enough. If you’ve got one, stick it on.

Other tyres I’ve found good for the Downs chalkiness have been WTB Vigilante and Vee tyres Flow.

I used to run the old Hans Dampf up front, never found it confidence inspiring and scary when leaned on. Switched to a Magic Mary which is much better. Minion DHF is the best front tyre I’ve tried though.

A DHF 2.3 will clog pretty badly in South Downs clay. A DHF 2.5 isn’t quite so bad - but it’s a pretty draggy tyre if you’re riding in fairly straight lines and not taking advantage of its cornering grip.

I got a Magic Mary on the front and a Hans on the rear. The Mary is Addix soft compound.

Having ridden a few tyres at Aston Hill, I'd say the chalk is the issue. It offers no grip regardless of the rubber!

Big fan of HDs on the front...run HD 2.35 Pacestar on my 160mm travel 27.5 FS bike & my 29er HT. Have done for years...ride mostly Surrey hills & SDW. Always surprised at the conflicting opinions on HD but each to their own.

Chunky Monkey/Smorgasbord i did run on the rear only, never on the front. Now run RR or NN on rear.

However, if i head to the Alps etc then its out with the Minion DHF 2.5 ST on the front and the HD gets moved to the rear or i use the CM.

Having ridden a few tyres at Aston Hill, I’d say the chalk is the issue. It offers no grip regardless of the rubber!

Yep binned it more than I care to remember there. A riding buddy was once watching me take the berm before the fire trail on Dh3(?). I dropped it and I think I hit the deck before my shadow caught up.
He said I looked fine then I wasn’t upright in a blink of an eye. It was Grippery that day, lots of grip then none with no warning.

As for the Chunky monkey, I think it’s great on hard pack and granite. Used it on the front in the Alps with no issue. Damp hands, ok as a rear paired with a Mary on the front, not tried it on the front but I’m sure it’d be fine. Pressures, style and the horror of chalk have more bearing than the actual tyre.

The simple answer is to move somewhere with nice grippy rocky stuff to ride on rather than slithering about on lethal chalkness. The Peak's nice 🙂

You’ll be a while away from choosing tyres if your recovery takes as long as mine did. I done the same thing as you and also cracked the ball in half.

Make sure you get loads of physio as simple things like drying yourself after a shower become very difficult when you can’t move your arm!

Wild Enduro tyre has been the grippiest for me.

The new HD looks a lot better than it's predecessor. Chunky monkeys are fine on Rocky stuff and hardback, shite in mud and slop.

I've never ridden on chalk though.

Dunno, but with SDW in mind, I put Rocket Rons on both ends to replace a Nobby Nic and a Hans Dampf.

Bike feels much lighter and faster now, with plenty of grip ... as long as it's dry ...

It will be sunny in July won't it?

If it's wet I'll just let some air out and hope for the best.

Again, I’ve never ridden on chalk so lack of experience on that.

I wouldn’t pick a hand dampf on the front of my bike though.

In winter when it’s a bit wetter / sloppier I run a 2.5 Minion dhf on the fs and a 2.35 Magic Mary on the hardtail. In the summer I continue with the dhf on the fs but run a chunky monkey on the hardtail.

I find the magic Mary best of the tyres I run on natural stuff, the dhf as the best all rounder and the chunky monkey on dry hardpack / trail centre stuff. When it gets wet I don’t find the chunky monkey handles it that well.

So I think I’m your shoes I’d be buying the softest 3c compound dhf.

But as other people have said, your front tyre washing out can be lack of technique. I used to have no issues until I got a better bike and started going a lot faster - since then I’ve had 3 occasions with big front wheel wash outs. Going faster highlighted my poor technique and body position in corners. I’ve had some coaching since and am getting better but still not fully there yet. I plan to have another coaching session over the summer at some point - to cover cornering and steeper tech stuff (and some jumping too as I’m crap at that as well)!

We all come a cropper sometimes, don’t overthink it.

wise words.

I used to ride in The Chilterns, and frankly there is no tyre in the world that will stop you from planting if you get in the wrong place on wet chalk.

Out of curiosity, I googled 'best tyre for wet chalk. I like the idea of Ice Spiker Pros...

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/a-q-for-the-south-downers-tyre-recommendations-for-the-wet-chalk/

The more grip you have, the faster you are going when you eventually fall off....

That green mosh/lichen covered south downs chalk is slippy enough when wet to spin you 180 degrees in the blink of an eye ime.....

Outright grip isn't so important for not falling off. I think it's more about balance and progressiveness, which leads to predictability.

A tyre is progressive on a particular surface if you can feel it starting to slip, and more force makes it slip a bit more. The opposite is a tyre that grips fine until it suddenly lets go and dumps you on the floor. The other issue is balance - if your rear tyre slips, you can dab; if both slip at the same time you can ride it out; if your front slips you're down, which sounds like what happened to the OP. But a large part of this is due to your bike set up and where your weight is in relation to the wheelbase. But the ideal placement for your weight depends on the bike's geometry. When I got my Salsa El Mar I had some lightly treaded almost semi slick race type tyres on it, however I could ride it fine in the mud because the balance is absolutely perfect and the bike just drifts around like some kind of rally car as I keep the power on.

If you just have more grip but the balance is wrong you'll just corner faster and hurt yourself more when you inevitably wash the front out. If the balance and progression is right then you can control most things even if you are slipping around and not going fast.

If you want to go really fast you need lots of grip [i]and[/i] balance and progression.

erm.

It’s worth noting that Hans Dampf has changed recently, the new ones have a different tread pattern.

This thread is ridiculous

mrmoofo

Member
It was off camber … not braking … in fact stomping onthe pedals to go up hill, and turning …

You feel off cos you unweighted the front and turned at the same time. It makes no difference what tyre you put on if you do that

Given the Hans Dampf has changed in its Addis version, what are people’s views of it as a front tyre?

I got my Solaris Max last summer with 2.8 WTB Rangers which I enjoyed in the lovely summer we had, before switching to 29er for winter. Having just changed back I’m not feeling the love and whilst really fast rolling, they lack bite in loose stone and especially Mud.

I run Nobby Nic 2.35 on the 29er and find these a good compromise for rolling and grip, yes they struggle on the steeper more natural terrain, but happy otherwise

Looking to replace the rangers with something gripper. Should I just replicate the 29er and fit NN front and rear or put an even gripper front tyre on? Would a HD/NN combo be the way to go or go the whole hog and put a Magic Mary on from and NN on rear?

Happy to hear sugg3stions for other brands. Ta

FWIW I just got my first 29er which came with HD tyres, I find them good handling all round tyres. BUT.  I have found the front letting go and washing out unexpectantly mid corner, riding at "normal" speed.  Have nearly fell off a couple of times with them.  I normally ride various Maxxi tyres which I would say have way more edge grip.

True. I live on the Downs. Sometimes in winter you can't see your tyres, sometimes they don't even turn and you have to carry the bike so tyre quickly becomes irrelevant. I like a HD though.

I also ride on the South Downs and I also broke my elbow many years ago (end off the ulna not humerus, not humerus at all) and the best thing I did to to help my confidence once I got back on the bike was to wear some elbow pads. You can never.guarantee you won't hit your (now rather tender for some months) elbow on something but you can stick some padding on so it doesn't hurt as much