[Closed] Self loathe

Think of the long game - takes years to build up pack-leading fitness.

Focus on small improvements. Try also to relax and just enjoy being on the ride.

No idea if that will help, plenty self-help books around for the depressed around which are worth a look.

Cheers al. It's more a case of understanding why I think that way. Why do I think I need to be at the front, or only going out if I can perfect every line every time etc. Looking for acceptance maybe? Need to prove myself?

My advice;

1) ride on your own

2) don't use Strava

3) don't have regular routes you can pace yourself on

4) make a point of stopping regularly on rides and taking in the view, having a snack or a cup of tea from a thermos.

5) stop and take photo's if you see something interesting.

basically, take the pressure to perform off yourself and give your rides a focus beyond being 'fast'. Try and enjoy the actual experience not the afterglow of being first to the top of the hill.

[edit] are you like this in all areas of your life? Are you compensating for areas that are out of your control by focusing on cycling (where you feel like it's all down to you)?

Sounds like you may need to look at some talking therapy, you'll need a GP referral for this normally. Until it all gets rewired you'll probably be better off as a billy-no-mates cyclist. Try some tunes when on the trails to distract you from the surging testosterone, keep the bpm and beat intensity low though as you want to relax not get wound up.
Don't expect a quick-fix as this is going to take time.

All the best
Mike

Why do I think I need to be at the front

probably because you keep reading on here about how sick rad gnarrrrr everyone else is. (which 99% of them aren't).

and start riding on your own, it will help you remember why you ride.

I trained fairly hard to come just below mid table in a race a few months back. Also spent quite a bit on getting the bike right for it, all to be just below average. "it's just the taking part" I was told....no it isn't, nothing will be achieved with that attitude. But there's the rub...how to be determined but then not be crushed to finish mid table.

My advice - take some time off racing and enjoy riding. Only go back to racing when you feel ready.

Have you tried riding with some new people who are at your level or lower? All the advice here about talking to someone is valid btw.

In a scale nowhere near as serious as yours, I used to get down about being the guy at the back on a lot of our rides - back when I started. Also got a lot of ribbing for not knowing much about the bike, needing help out on the trail etc.

Apart from getting better by keeping at it - so I got fitter, faster, more skilled at punctures etc - I also started riding with more people, and it was nice because in some cases, I'd be one of the best riders there. Not so much for the ego boost, but because it helped me realise how subjective and unhelpful it is to constantly hold myself to a standard that doesn't really exist. And when people ask your advice, it feels good.

Keep riding though mate, in the way that seems most fun to you. It's good medicine.

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm usually fine on the outside when I'm riding but then experience a massive low afterwards. I've got goals in my head for next year, though as to how realistic they are, I don't really know.

[i] I've got goals in my head for next year[/i]

maybe try and drop these? It might be good to not set yourself targets you're uncertain of achieving - it's just perpetuating the current problem isn;t it?

As I posted in the "Whate makes a good rider? thread:

Folk who just ride.

Not for the speed, distance, up, down, gnarr, time, result, strava, fitness, commute etc, just because they want to, just because it makes 'em smile.

All riding's good.

Yea, that's what I'm thinking at this point. I'm almost embarrassed to admit what my goals are, even though I want to achieve them.

simply making up the numbers in the middle of the pack

That makes you approximately 20x faster than me. I have the opposite. I sometimes watch these daft 40 year old blokes beasting themselves senseless at events, and races, in order to achieve what? I'm never really quite sure? Something I don't understand, that's for sure.

Why not relax a bit and take a different type of enjoyment out of it? As age tends to dictate that a constant need to win would put you n a permanently downward spiral, in the enjoyment stakes?

Another vote for riding on your own from time to time. I went out the other week on my own, which I hadn't done for a while. It was great!

When I'm out with my mates, I'm always at the back. I don't care. And they get a break at the top of the climbs while they wait for me. It can actually make you quite popular that. Though few will actually tell you that 😀

how to be determined but then not be crushed to finish mid table.

IME improvement. I'm never gonna win but an improvement from mid table to top third is great in my eyes.

I'm with binners (or I would be if I was on a ride with him). There's far, far too much emphasis on racing, be that in an actual event or with your mates. It's taking all the fun out of cycling.

come for a ride with me. Thhen you can be at the front on every climb

Counselling/psychotherpay? If you're a long term depression sufferer and this is linked to your riding/competitive woes - which I suspect it may well be - then you could do worse than some proper help. I think a lot of racers - in this and other sports - probably have similar things going on if they're honest with themselves. Driven by results to the point where all the fun and enjoyment is gone.

Manage your expectations?
Contentment comes not from great wealth, but from few wants.
If you set goals too high you will never be happy

Ride lots.

I find the more I ride, I don't percieve myself getting better, but then I'll go out with a group and suddenly i'llhave gone from yo-yoing off the back to cruising allong at the front waiting for people (it doesnt get easier, it just gets faster). I actualy prefer sitting in groups that are uncomfortably faster than I'd like because it means I'm always pushing myslef to improve, even on slow rides I'll sometimes hang back to the end of the group then see how far I can get back before the top of the hill/end of the trail.

Goal setting's a funny business. Some people like small achievable goals, I prefer to set big ones and fail. E.g ride in the fast group by Christmas. There was a pathway to doing this, I'm not going to manage it due to a few reasons, but I'll still be happy with my progress as I'm more motivated by the riding and getting quicker than actualy meeting the goal, and the fast group will still be there next year.

OK, I can relate to some of this so here's my two penny-worth.

Firstly get yourself some high dose Vitamin D (around 5,000iu), this is available cheaply online. High Street stuff is a rip-off.

Secondly, get a notebook and pen and write down each and every symptom.

Thirdly, place your bike in your face be that kitchen, bedroom, lounge. Make sure everything is working, tyres pumped etc. You need to see it daily.

Next get an OS map - you're not going riding, you're going exploring. Two different things. Investigate bridleways that you didn't know were there. You've not ridden them before so you can't force yourself to ride in a particular gear. Take a flask with you, take in the view.

Repeat and repeat and repeat.

Take another look at that list - anything that can be crossed off? You can't compare yourself to anyone else, you're you.

You need to re-program your mind, it's not easy but can be done.

Finally, you need to recognise your achievement because it IS an achievement.

Small steps all the time.

Good luck!

Shame yer in Belfast Col, you could have come out for a spin with us lads then you would have been at the front of the group! ;0)

The best advice I can give you is to stop being goal oriented. Depression is rather ruthless in this respect as you wind up setting goals for yourself that your motivation cannot possibly match. Go back to basics, ride the stuff you love to ride rather than the stuff you think you ought to ride.

And make sure you reward yourself for getting on the bike.

And good luck!

Think you probably need to feel good enough without doing really well on the MTB.

You can talk to somebody free through the charity called Mind, I spoke to somebody at my local Mind place and it honestly changed my life for the better.

You might not need to, but it's always there as an option, don't be afraid of it as one. :~)

Best of luck,
Tim

You need to separate what's going on in your head and what you actually want to do. Depression isn't necessarily caused by failure to achieve your goals, nor will it necessarily go away if you do achieve them. But from talking to sufferers I know, if you keep doing stuff, it helps.

Really appreciate the replies so far folks. I have very recently called Lifeline and I have been on the Mind website numerous times. This train of thought is across many areas of my life.

From my experience, i'd say go and talk to a nice person at Mind, but obviously it's down to you.

You can stop going if/whenever you want.

All good advice.. R.e. Talking to someone, yes there are groups out there, but the best thing you can do is grab a friend, colleague, or just someone you know and talk to tjem about a tiny bit of how your feeling (it can build over time). Just keep in mind they wont reacy like you expect them.. You'll probably expect the same unreal standards from them, but just take what you can.

Re. Riding: the guys above have got it right, by yourself or with people, cycle for a bit the have a break, chat, enjoy the view! Also, stop racing - use the money for cake stops, or if you'd rather continue find what it is in racing that you love.. For me its just finishing, crawling round the circuit with cramp everywhere being passed,by people who just offer encouragment, the sheer daftness.

Lastly, but far from least, convert to a single speed maybe? 🙂 stops you pushing yourself too much, encourages just pleasuring the ride - and nothing to go wrong (often the state of your bike can reflect/worsen your own state eg. Itd something else that ends up being finely tuned, needs care and attention, isnt quite rigjt etc).

Lastly, but far from least, convert to a single speed maybe?

We all know singlespeeders are better people, but it's not prozac!

On the other hand it is a nice way of removing outside influences from a ride. The bike will always* be in perfect** working*** order, you can flog yourself uphill then relax and concentrate on other things the rest of the time.

Ohhh, and on the training/raceing conversational thread, have you been taking enough rest/recovery? 3 weeks on, 1 week off kinda stuff? I find if I ride regulalry for 4 weeks in a row (not trainng, but I do push myself) then i stop improving and go backwards, get tired quickly, make mistakes, crash a lot and generalyu get fed up with bikes. A week off and I'm faster in every way.

*unless something else breaks
**shonky
***debateable

i have been in a similar situation to you for a long time also (i don't race though).
have suffered with depression/anger issues for a long time,and have barely ridden my duster for a long time also (only to do shopping e.t.c).

for years now i haven't ridden my bike very often,and have just been staring at the walls not wanting to do anything (i am trying to get some help about it again). i haven't even seen any of my friends for 4 odd months 😳 (an just glad i have these forums to have some human contact with 😳

the light at the end of the tunnel though,is that i have just got myself a road bike (have wanted one for a long time).i really want to start riding it (and trying to get some fitness back again 😉

i think with depression,you have to try and reprogram your mindset,because it loves to keep you in a perpetual downward spiral of self loathing e.t.c/well in my case anyhoo).

at the end of the day you obviously seem to love riding your bike.
why don't you just go out for a pootle on your bike next time.forget everything about trying to beat your best time e.t.c.just completely focus on riding your bike and taking in the scenery/wildlife e.t.c. enjoy the reason that you got into riding your bike in the first place again.
like most people on here cycling was my first true sense of freedom.i could just go where i pleased/at the speed i wanted to. no pesky adults to tell me what to do 😉

i hope this was of some help (and apologies for the droning on 😳

good luck 🙂

Hats off to everyone for the replies, not once have you dropped your standards - even the singlespeed comment 😉

I've tried various methods of re-programming my mind. I'll admit, it's the hardest single thing in the world, this 'thing' that has control over you 99% of the time. I do think I have lost the joy of riding, and that really needs to change. I don't want to stop competing, I've really enjoyed the race atmoshpere and meeting new people, and the enduro format really works for me.

remember that feeling that you used to have as a kid? Just mucking around on the bike because it was fun. No times, speeds, targets, positioning in group. No latest gear, decisions about tyres or wheel size, no competition or pressure. Just riding because it is fun.

That is the reason you ride...

franksinatra +1

I view going out for a 2-3 hour night ride with my mates, in pretty much much the same way as I viewed mucking around with my mates on our BMX's, after school, when we were 15. Only now we've all got really nice bikes, and we're allowed in the pub afterwards, to talk shite and take the piss out of each others riding. So its even betterer!

This is a healthy way to view riding bikes 😀

@st Colin, hi mate. Sorry to hear you suffer with depression, but if I may offer some advice. I used to race (6yrs ago now) and have always been fit, but I hated racing, and looking back now I can see why. It ruined why I started mtb ing in the first place, it wasn't social and very elitist.
The advice from the other posts is great, concentrate on just riding, getting out and having fun. See if you can get involved in club/pub rides. After a ride look at what went well, try and focus on the positives ie. Wow, I've never managed to ride up that section before....

Steve

I know it sounds trite but someone explained to me: unrealistic expectations are resentments waiting to happen. Nothing wrong with goals but they have to be credible. And if your self worth is tied up with riding performances then I can see why you are struggling.

So I think three things: realise that you are a valuable decent person regardless; talking therapies can help you with this. Secondly set realistic measurable performance goals for training. Finally, think about riding for fun at the back sometimes, with friends because social contact is an important defence against low mood.

Good luck.

I sometimes watch these daft 40 year old blokes beasting themselves senseless at events, and races, in order to achieve what?

Satisfaction.

OP - have you tried applying yourself properly to training?

Sometimes a project is what's needed - as was suggested on the other depression thread recently.

Read 'The Chimp Paradox' by Steve Peters. Great book and may help you understand your feelings.
Good luck fella.

Thanks again for all the replies, great advice. Molgrips, I don't have a training schedule as such, perhaps that is an issue. I ride everyday to and from work, only really push myself on the way back, approx 4.5 miles each way. Not a lot, but better than not especially in winter. I push myself on the weekend rides.

There are a lot of books and online inof, it can be very difficult to spend time and get the right stuff for me.

This has to help 🙂
[url=

u're the best[/url]

I know what ya mean mate, I find myself in a similar frame of mind at times, if you are the ST colin that is local to myself, feel free to drop me a line if you fancy heading out out for a no pressure bimble around the local spots, or just want to vent I'm usually about. I know from personal experience how difficult it can be to get out of that frame of mind, but it is possible.

Mate, I think a lot of us know what your going through or at least can understand. I found with depression that any competition or challenge is greatly magnified and its all too easy to get caught up in the feeling that everyone else is better than you.

Options

1 As already suggested refocus biking back to fun learn to wheelie, bunny hop etc anything which makes it fun again. use you bike as a tool to explore rather than challenge yourself.

2 Give it up for a while and try something new.

3 If you cant do either seek advice on specific training to improve, approach it in a more measured and achieveable manner. Consider Taking bike coaching to improve. If you must set goals etc make them small steps and realistic otherwise it bound to overwelm you.

4, Get refered to a specalist about your depression, it can make a huge difference.

hope this helps, and keep posting

Best of Luck

Jay

I can empathise. It always used to be "faster", "further", "knarlier" etc. Then suddenly the penny dropped. I was doing yet another "non competitive"* sportive when the thought hit me that I had been belting along coughing up lungs through beautiful countryside and all I had been looking at was another blokes lycra covered @rse. I sat up, dropped off the pack and looked around me. Eventually finished, but with a big smile from the pure joy of riding a bike. Now I race occasionally, but chat with the marshals whilst riding and just enjoy the buzz.

Eventually the penny will drop, but you may, as said above need some help with it before it drags you down to a point it's hard to get back from. Talking therapy can be very worthwhile if you get the right person.

*No such thing

I would ****ing love to be finishing in the middle of the pack

See instead of going for what you think are the fastest lines maybe try riding a different line every time. Because one thing's sure as hell when you're racing - the fastest line wont always be the best line.

For some people, the more they love something, the more it can loathe them.

I love riding bikes, but the sheer simple pleasure of self guided motion can soon be lost as I think I should be pushing harder, getting dfitter, being stronger.

The deeper I allow myself to go in, the darker it gets: self generated pressure and a feeling that the riding here and now is just a chore for some future benefit.

For me, it took a massive health scare this year (and one which may still get me) to refocus. Now, I accept that dawdling through the lanes for 90 mins on the road bike is as good as it's going to be for a while. The greatest pleasure is peeking over the hedgerows into fields and gardens.

The more you want to control it, the more it will control you. To be happy at it, you have to look the other way when the dark side starts goading you on.

Most of all, go and speak to a CBT therapist to try to unlock what it is about you that makes you feel that pleasure = success = self destruction.

Good luck.

i'm still up for a bit of a race but after a year of near constant injuries and illnesses this year was back about getting back into it. but, and altho i'm not back to proper fitness, i found myself strangely unbothered. there's going to be more of these young guys quicker than me just because i'm getting old!

what i have got this year which i'd kind of lost before all the shenanigans is a real feel for being out on the bike and where it is i am. rarely now, i'll travel any distant to go out on the bike. i muich prefer to go from the door. i stop. i take notice of the wildlife, look at the environment. i've taken a picture or two. i record soundfiles. i've got a really good 'training' diary.

i have, more or less, taken the advice of those training manuals for cyclists past their sell by date and learned it's good to rest. even better when the weather's crap and ms swiss asks me what i'm about i'm quite happy to say that i'm just off for a burl to keep the legs turning.

last week i stopped at a really interesting wee piece of archaeology that i must've cycled by countless times when i've had my head down. met a guy who was doing a bit of work around it and had a splendid wee blether.

coincidentally i'm doing loads more miles so you never know maybe next year i'll do a race or two. but only if it fits around everything else!

st colin - Nothing wrong in wanting to be the fastest you can be, or in having goals for next year. Or in wanting to prove yourself (to yourself). You need a plan, a proper plan that's going to get you as close as possible to those goals.

Specific attainable goals as part of a structured plan.

I think you need a coach to work with.

SB

On depression, one of my family members is/was a sufferer of very severe depression with suicidal tendencies. Her life was basically a misery, for herself and those around her until she got her medication sorted. Since then she's had 15 or so years of happy and normal living, unlike the decades of misery she had before that.

Now, perhaps you don't need anti-depressants, perhaps you do, but you really should speak to a your gp and make some steps to getting sorted. i think if we dwell on negatives we can all be prone to dark thoughts and negativity. You obviously love biking, so you have something in your life that you enjoy and that gets you outside and socialising, that's more than most "ordinary" folk.

On racing and riding, firstly, do you actually enjoy racing? If not then forget it for now. You can come back to it at any stage. If you really love racing, if that's your thing and you really love that, but are frustrated with your results, well ask yourself have you actually prepared to the best of your abilities to win? Be honest with yourself. Very few people win in any mountainbiking disciplines on shear talent, and yet everyone downplays how much they train and how hard they try, but the truth is the guys who win are training flat out and probably staying pretty quite about it to lull the opposition into a false sense of security.

Try and remember what you love about biking and get back to that - if that's racing and winning, then set some goals, get some training, join a club etc etc but be realistic. If you fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

If that's not racing, just riding for fun, then do that. Crap time of the year but hey, there's still fun to be had. I'm a firm believer in the remedial and calming effect of riding yer bike so get out there and do it. Go somewhere new, or somewhere you haven't been in a long time. No tape, no clocks, no strava. The other good thing is there are always plenty of decent folk wanting to get out for a ride so you can always find groups of like minded folk....maybe you just haven't found a group of riders you've really clicked with. Hang in there man...the tools to alleviate your depressiona and improve your riding are right between your hands [i](hint, it's your handle bars).[/i]

I can relate. I am also very goal oriented. I also suffer from depression. The two are quite closely related (though I also have other stuff going on, which is what I think kicked mine off).

My recommendation? Get a unicycle. Has a huge number of challenges to achieve - the first and the hardest being to actually ride the thing at all. However once you can ride it there are all sort of other things - learn to jump, get a muni (mountain unicycle) and learn to ride off road, etc. The advantage of the things you can achieve with a unicycle is that you will just carry on getting better, and if you keep at it, most days you can chalk off some little achievement - it's not like bike fitness type stuff where it's easy to go backwards. It's also non-competitive - not about whether you can ride better than your mates, just about whether you can ride better than you could yesterday. You might think this a completely off-the-wall suggestion and maybe not for everybody, but I'm convinced unicycling kept me from disappearing into a deep dark hole - it sounds like you have a similar mindset to me, so it might help you too.

BTW I do still race, and still actually do better than most people (by picking the right niches to compete in I can still win stuff despite being nowhere near as fit as I once was). However I've backed off a lot, and happier for it - though I do still have the yearning for what I could once do. TBH by the time I semi-retired, despite still getting top results in some big events, I was enjoying it a lot less due to all the stress involved, which was at least partly down to feeling the need to maintain my position near the top of the results sheet. It felt great when I won, but more often than not when I didn't I felt rotten (I have a bit of that tonight, having come back from an event I could have and should have won, but made a silly mistake and didn't - I wonder if the feeling of winning as I did last time out makes up for feeling like I do now, though I know that actually I can't just stop).

I have been reading the posts and started to wonder if the anxiety of whether a racer will podium or not leading up to a race is healthy for the ones that are depressive. I just remember the anxiety leading up to it along with adrenalin kicking in but once the gun goes at the start of the race,it lift's instantly. I loved that feeling. Just to finally be in the race and not worrying about it like I had been minutes before. I may be wrong. I really don't know if this is good for the mind in a depressive state. Someone set me straight on that one!

But to always have it in the back of your mind (leading up to and during the race) that you will NOT be on the podium,surely can't help these issues.

I haven't won much but the races that I have one, leading up to them I knew without a shadow of a (excuse the language) f*c&*! doubt, that I'd win. It was only a few but I knew (and pictured one race) as impossible for anyone to beat me. The speed I had and the mental positivity in my head telling me that there was no way that anyone turning up for that race would be able to go faster down the first straight into the first corner made it happen. I visited the course a week before the race as I had no idea what it was like and the feeling and adrenalin was a bit too much once I visualized myself riding it start to finish. My heart rate just standing there on the track visualizing it must have been around 130!

If someone got all worked up over this and a week later they performed bad at the race I can only imagine this would hit home in a bad way and put them on a downward spiral even more.

You say your goals are nearly embarrassing to talk about. If you want it badly and train to do as well as possible but also have 20-30% negativity or doubt lurking in the back of your mind about finishing half way down the field, you WILL do just that.

I can only guess that the goals you are embarrassed to mention are a long way off winning the Tour of Britain.. but if the goals are set so high and mentally you know leading up to,and during the race that the podium wont be happening, it's only going to keep putting you on a downer.

Everyone seems to have the right idea about backing off with the racing,enjoying the ride and stopping to take in the scenery and spinning open a flask of tea. By doing this it's not the end of your racing career. Its just a change. A break from it all to see how you feel. Surely worth a try!

Col, you mention that this pattern of thinking affects not only your bike time but across all of your life experience. This would suggest that the 'chatterbox' - the internal voice in your head (possibly the 'parent' in you?)has just too much volume.

We all experience the chatterbox to varying degrees and learning how to mute it/silence it has for me, been the key to easing my habitual tendency towards being a cyclical depressive.

Try to not listen to it when it starts, in other words, try to observe it. Recognise that it's not your real inner voice and resist the temptation to get caught up in a conversation/debate/argument with it. And practice, practice practice. It takes time.

In the meantime, keep doing the things you love and with the people you love.

Wishing you peace and joy.
Tim

^ this is an issue I've had. As someone else said "the Chimp Paradox" is well worth a read. It's like a user-manual for your head.

A cycling coach would be a good idea, if you can get the right one. A thorough discussion of your abilities and your goals with one should give you an idea of how realistic you are being. Try British Cycling for a local coach.
A good coach will help with this and more importantly will point you at extra medical/mental health help if it is deemed necessary.
As an aside how much cycling are you doing a week? One of your posts shows your commute is 9 miles as a return trip. Gains on such a short weekly distance will be hard to see, you'll be able to do the speed work but endurance may suffer. See a coach though.

Wow, didn't expect even more great replies this morning.

Last night I felt very very low and I tried to think of the simple positive of riding my bike - just strolling along the trials in this pretty beautiful countryside we have around Belfast. Didn't seem like such a bad thing. I'd have gone out, but it was a tad late! This weekend I'm doing the Redbull Foxhunt in Belfast and I'm really hoping I can be in the right frame of mind to just enjoy it and not care about where and what happens. If I can get a cheeky photo with Gee Atherton, that'll do.

There are a lot of books and online inof, it can be very difficult to spend time and get the right stuff for me.

I am not a coach but I can give you some vague free advice that will probably get you close to the front of the pack 🙂 Email in profile.

I'm not sure about this 'just ride to enjoy it' thing. For me, going fast IS the enjoyment. Why else would I keep riding around the same old trails? Trundling through the countryside is pleasant enough, but I've been doing it for 20 odd years, I need something more than that. When I was a kid going out with mates it was all about racing them, getting down or up as fast as possible. Now I don't have regular riding mates I have to ride for speed otherwise I'll be bored.

Don't criticise me for it - that's just part of my psyche, and I embrace it and enjoy it. It does mean that I am prone to beating myself up if I do poorly in races, but again that's part of it. If you strive to achieve you will fail most of the time, if you don't strive to achieve you have to accept mediocrity. Some of us don't mind that, some do.

Decide which type you are and embrace it fully, don't try and make yourself be the type you're not.

I'm all for vague free advice 😉

Yea, part of the fun is going fast, no doubt, though I'm thinking that just going out to ride will give me some perspective. I know I'll continue to ride as hard as a can, I just need to not judge myself on it all the time?

[i]I just need to not judge myself on it all the time? [/i]

this. And by, perhaps, avoiding situations in which you judge yourself for a time you can regain some confidence in and enjoyment from 'just riding a bike'.

No one's suggesting joining the Rough Stuff Fellowship, just deciding that it's the [i]process[/i] of riding a bike that's important, not just the result.

Judge yourself based on your situation.

How fast you are depends on a few things:

1) how good your training is (not necessarily how much time you put in)
2) how much other stuff you forgo to do your training
3) how committed you are to it
4) genetics

Your genetic profile dictates how much effect your training will have.

I don't do well at races generally. I come ahead of the weekend warriors, but behind all the good people. Why is this? Why don't I win?

1) I'm not single-minded. I love lots of things, cycling is only one of them. I love hanging out with my wife for example, and relaxing watching telly/amusing myself some other way
2) I have a family and commitments to them
3) Work leaves me tired and I only have so much mental energy.

Given those constraints, I do reasonably well. Point 1) is a biggie, but I have learned not to beat myself up about it. It's just who I am - it's also why I'm not a top scientist, a leading entrepreneur or a high level consultant in my job.

Point 3) is also significant. I know people who've got boundless energy to do stuff - I'm not one of them. It's just who I am, no point fighting it too hard.

However I think I do well on point 4), I respond quite well to training when I do it. So I am trying to find a way of training effectively that fits into all the other constraints, which effectively means training effectively in a short amount of time.

Which is where HIIT, commuting and the time-crunched cyclist stuff comes in. My project is to learn how to extract the most training benefit and therefore speed out of the least amount of time.

Put like that, it's a fun challenge, and I can still feel I have succeeded without having to win Elite races. A good performance is a success.

Isn't a lot of this part and parcel of being a bloke ?

I had the same goals when being a semi pro golfer, the same ones when motorbike racing and the same ones about cyling in XC races... I now sit here after buying a roadie and wondering if i should enter events next year etc, how i'd do in them and what i need to do to move up in fitness etc.

I don't believe however i'm depressed, although sometimes my lack of ability does irritate and sadden me slightly.

I think some of the 'just get out on the trails and have fun' are cracking posts... it's far too easy to get too wrapped up in faster faster faster and forget about "wow, it's stunning out here on the side of a mountain".

Funnily enough my mates often have to drag me back from 'faster faster' and back into enjoyment. This thread has also just stopped me as even after 2 rides on the roadbike i was already on the slippery slope to getting too wrapped up in training and speed to actually appreciate just being out there. So much so that when i go out in a little while i'm leaving the Endmondo turned off, because you know what... it doesn't matter.

So at the very least, your thread has inspired me slightly, for that, i thank you 🙂

Get a bike loaded up and go touring for 2 weeks. Ride fast, explore, eat nice food, drink good wine, meet interesting people. After a couple of thousand Km's in a couple of weeks you'll realise there's more to cycling than chasing men in Lycra round a muddy field. You'll also have all those Km's in you and you'll haul arse!

@op: I know nothing about depression and cba to wade through all this, but my thought is you're taking riding too seriously and thinking too hard.

It's just bike riding. It's not important, it's just a bit of fun. Chill out and enjoy it for what it is.

Wishing you the best

- M

I think some of the 'just get out on the trails and have fun' are cracking posts... it's far too easy to get too wrapped up in faster faster faster and forget about "wow, it's stunning out here on the side of a mountain".

Umm yea.. but that's assuming you can go out to the mountains or take a two week touring holiday. I can't practically do that without causing huge problems for my wife cos we have two small kids who idolise me, so it's not fair on them either.

Am I depressed about this? A bit, yes. There's a whole world of fab adventures out there that I have to put on hold 🙁

but my thought is you're taking riding too seriously and thinking too hard.

Chill out and enjoy it for what it is.

"What it is" varies depending on the person. I'm sticking up for the performance interested cyclist here because we get slagged off for it on here 🙁

And thinking hard - jesus, the day I stop thinking hard will be the day I want to die. And I'm proud of it.

Molgrips these words will help (and apply to all fathers of young children)

This too, will pass.

Carry on!

Umm yea.. but that's assuming you can go out to the mountains or take a two week touring holiday. I can't practically do that without causing huge problems for my wife cos we have two small kids who idolise me, so it's not fair on them either

We can all get to a mountain within 5-6 hours max, be it Wales, Peaks or Scotland. Realistically any of us can get up at 5am and be on a mountina just after breakfast, ride for 4 hours and still be home to put the kids to bed.

Wow that's ALOT of advice!

for what little its worth here's my bit.
Stop reading the mtb' comics/magazines they'll always make you feel inadequate.

Deal with your depression appropriatly with your G if you don't already do so. (For what its worth my GP has me on 30mg of citalapram, not that I've noticed it!)

and ease up on the STW pity parties. Its human nature to not really care about strangers!
🙂

@molgrips do what you want, but my post wasn't about you eh?

@killwillforchips - yea, coming on to ask a bunch of strangers who genuinely don't care, sounds the like the wrong idea. However I'm very pleased that in the moment that each and every one of you replied, you felt you wanted too, just to help someone. Human nature if you ask me. I know STW very well, I read a lot more than I post.

I'm on 40mg of fluoxetine, been through CBT about 5 years ago, and attended 6 sessions with a consellor this time last year.

I'm realising I'm pouring out a lot of personal info on here, so I'm still nervous sharing all this.

We can all get to a mountain within 5-6 hours max, be it Wales, Peaks or Scotland. Realistically any of us can get up at 5am and be on a mountina just after breakfast, ride for 4 hours and still be home to put the kids to bed.

I can walk out of the door and ride my bike for as long as I like. But that will upset people I love, so whilst it's physically possible it's not really a good idea for me.

@molgrips do what you want, but my post wasn't about you eh?

No, it was about cycling and attitudes towards it. I posted my thoughts on what's being said. That's how forums are supposed to work imo.

Its human nature to not really care about strangers!

Yes and no. STW is partially abstract, partially strangers and partially real friends.. but we do care on the whole 🙂 You'll always get lots of help and usefully, lots of different viewpoints.

There is quite a bit there, I'll throw in my 2 cents...

I had a similar attitude of: If I am not the best then what is the point. Then I would think to be the best I must try really hard, so I did "try hard" I would return home exhausted tired and feeling rubbish.

To be a good rider you don't need to try hard, you just need to ride and ride and ride, like the best pilots have flying hours, same with riding.

I found that if I concentrated or simply riding more often; be that wherever, whenever some days I cba and I'd go for a pootle, some days I would shred. I found that it all adds up, because with every ride you gain experience (especially in the UK with it's varying conditions).

I also only do what I feel like doing; if I am tired - going racing uphill isn't going to be enjoyable, but I can do a bit of track-stand practise or something else on that day.

Ok so you want to race so there will be training involved, but some days you must go ride without an objective, just piss about and remember why you started riding - for fun!

But that will upset people I love, so whilst it's physically possible it's not really a good idea for me.

seriously ? once every 2-3 months you can't do that ?

seriously ? once every 2-3 months you can't do that ?

I'm often away all week long, and I'm always working all week long. So the weekends are the only real family time we have. My wife still has to look after the kids all day even when I am working at home.

So after 5 days like that it's hardly fair to sod off and enjoy myself all day and make her do it again. There's nothing she really wants to do on her own that would make up for it. So no, not really...

Col,

I have very similar feeling to you although not identical. I often sit there wondering why I can't bring myself to do things (not just ride the bike) and would rather not start them than fail. Unlike you perhaps, I don't have the same sense of failure after an activity and usually enjoy myself when I have actually built myself up to do something.

As a bit of background, I also suffered from clinical depression when I lost my wife to cancer and was on quite high dose medication for over 5 years. I still have bad days, but most of the time I'm the same grumpy git I always was.

I recently read 'The Chimp Paradox' which does go quite a long way into answering the question 'Why?' we have this behaviour. It is natural for different parts of our brains to be in conflict and it is our responsibility to try and 'manage them'. In the books terms, the 'human' part of the brain behaves rationally, the 'chimp' is irrational and will try to mess things up. The only problem is the chimp is a lot stronger than the human and without careful management, the chimp will usually win (why you feel like crap when you don't perform to the chimp's expectations).

I have also been reading some philosophy on the meaning to life. Very interesting stuff if you can bypass some of the more outrageous philosophical bull. Basically, life sucks and rather sadly you have to accept this. There are no magic bullets that will make things perfect, you deal with what you are given and make the best way forward you can without hurting anyone else. I know it's a crappy answer, but unfortunately that is the reality.

Unfortunately, I can't really say how to help you specifically, but I can say how I get round it? First of all, I try VERY hard, not to have too high an expectation of myself. Accept that the best you can do really is the best you can do. Next, realise that it is your own brain that is playing tricks on you. No one else, just your own brain and this is not unusual. Third, and quite a big one, don't beat yourself up if something doesn't go quite right. I still have huge issues with this one and it is the one thing that can send me into a depressive state. Personally, I have to sit myself down and quietly think through the problem and how I can solve it. My psychiatrist used to call it looking for an exit off your ring road. It frustrates the hell out of my girlfriend, because she wants me to talk about it and I can't.

In practical terms, I don't like to plan to far ahead although I have to plan things like going cycling. I have to psych myself up to go out as that annoying chimp in my head will always find something else for me to do rather than put the lycra on and start pedalling.

It's not easy, but unfortunately neither is life in general (well not for me anyway). I've no idea if any of this will help, but I sincerely hope it does. Good luck.

All or nothing thinking / perfectionism classic causes of depression.

This may be of some use:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/Pages/improve-mental-wellbeing.aspx

Good luck OP

Mavisto likes typing. Do you have blisters now?

😉

@Mavisto - Interesting post. I honeslty don't accept that life just sucks and that we just have to get on with it, though I know that when I'm down that's exactly my attitude. I do see the beauty in life, it's just harnessing that and dealing with the evils that don't allow my to explore it.

My interpretation of Mavisto's point was that in reality there is no external 'meaning' to life. Fundamentally we're a bunch of molecules chucked together under the influence of physics, it's no more than a happy accident, and sooner or later we're all worm food anyway.

It doesn't mean anything, it just is.

I found, once I accepted that, I quit worrying about 'meaning' and just got on with having as good a life as possible. The scales fall from the eyes and everything becomes simple and clear. It's great actually.

ps my life doesn't suck

Col,

Ok, maybe I made a bad choice of words, but I was trying to get a general point over in a limited amount of time without boring everyone. There is nothing wrong with seeing beauty in things and having loving relationships (which most modern philosophy views as vitally important), but expecting life to be a bed of roses is thought of as being misguided and unrealistic. Maybe I should have quoted direct from The Chimp Paradox and said 'Life is not fair'. Expecting life to be fair and just will always leave you disapointed. Treat life like it's not fair and you are only ever surprised by the good things.

I realise it is a pessimistic view, but if we share anything in our image of ourselves, you probably have a pessimistic view on life anyway (really sorry if I'm out of order there). I actually like the person that I am inside, part of my issues are with my misguided view of what is on the outside. I assume that this is misguided, because I have been married once and now live with my partner, so I can't be too bad on the outside.

Don't get me wrong, I don't sit in a darkened room feeling sorry for myself and thinking life is crap. I just get on with what comes at me and enjoy life as much as I can. When something goes wrong or I don't make it out on my bike (because the chimp is playing up), I try not to make a big deal out of it. I also try not to let other people upset me. They have busy lives and are just trying to get along the best they can and don't need me messing their lives up.

I've had issues with my partner because, in my view, she works to hard and for too long. I try not to let this bother me now, but I also have the opinion that when I want to do something at the weekend (like biking), if she's happy to spend all that time at work, don't complain when I want to do something in the only free time I have.

See I still have issues.

I think there is a lot of interesting advice and perspective on this thread. Just to add my thoughts. I've not, as far as a clinical diagnoses goes, suffered from depression, I don't cycle competitively and I'm not a cycling coach. However, I've been a working coach in other sports where I have also performed to a reasonably high level and where I sometimes used to feel the same way after activity/performance.

For me, and as simply as possible the things I learned which helped me to place my own performance into perspective and which I now try to apply to biking are as follows:

1. It's just [enter sport/activity here] and whilst it is important to me personally it doesn't define who I am or my value. I have lots of other skills and enjoy other things. People appreciate me not because I am good at [...] but because of my values, behavior, actions, thoughts etc.

2. My performance has to be related to my own progression/previous performance, before I relate it to the performance of others. For this reason I choose to compete with myself and I don't judge my performances against the success of others [i]first[/i]. If you compare to others first you will normally find a negative because there is always somebody better/faster etc. Instead I think about my own success first and then look to what I can learn from others to help me improve. This is difficult to stick to in a race where the whole emphasis is on a 'place' - forget the number and focus on your improvements/enjoyment.

3. Don't constantly analyse. Take a break from thinking occasionally and just enjoy the feeling of what you do. When I analyse too much I loose the 'big picture', forget that it's just [...] (see my first point), and then when I don't have the successes/perform in the way that I want it becomes more important than it should be. For me this is what leads to negative feelings, and normally less confidence and a poorer performance. The downward spiral.

Just my own reflections about what I did when I wasn't feeling good about things. May help, may not. In any case best of luck.

I've not read everything but I thought I would chip in anyway.

For me riding isn't about how fast you can go its about how much fun you can have. I am usually found at the back of a group suffering on the climbs but near the front on the way down enjoying myself and getting into trouble by taking the wrong lines. I know I could be faster if I trained for it but training is boring so I don't do it.

So my top tip would be don't go training just go for a ride.

"sometimes you’re ahead, sometimes you’re behind......the race is long, and in the end, it’s only with yourself."

From Baz Luhrmann's Wear Sunscreen. Always struck a chord with me.

In other words, you run your own race and play the hand you're dealt. Comparing yourself to others is pointless, theres always someone better/faster/richer. Compare yourself to where you were a few months/years ago.