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I reported a close pass last week and supplied some cropped videos showing the incident via a shared cloud folder. Plod have now asked me to upload full videos to a central website 'as they came off the device'. Yay, good news, they are actually interested in a close pass... but the thing is that the 5 min segment that has the incident at the end also has me waiting at a single lane signal controlled bridge for the lights, and after waiting for a bit with no other traffic around it seemed the lights weren't reacting to me so I snuck through the red. That's clear as day on camera so am a slam dunk for an RLJ fine if they are so inclined. Obviously I could see the other end of the bridge (c. 20m) at all times etc so it wasn't reckless or anything but do I share the evidence of the close pass and also my own misdemeanor?
You are allowed to proceeed through a red light if you beleive that it is not working or responding to you - of you stopped and waited then that should be fine. If anything, point it out whn you upload
with thanks to @miketually
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You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right. If the traffic lights are not working, treat the situation as you would an unmarked junction and proceed with great care.
(Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36)
Well send it and see. They may or may not be interested in the close pass and they may or may not be interested in the red lights.
Its not a war crime, so I wouldn't get too bothered by it.
I would be surprised (pleasantly) if they actually did something about the close pass. Most of them are normal people, so they may see what you saw and figure the red light issue is not worth bothering about.
Crop it to just after you bump the light and tell them that's the full file?
As NBT said you are allowed to pass through a red light with caution. There's one round here that only works using sensors in the road surface. Cars and motorbikes are picked up but bicycles aren't. Not usually a problem as the queue of cars will trigger it, but now and again I have to jump the light if there are no cars around.
Slightly ironic that it has an ASL but it won't trigger for bicycles.
crop it
Thanks NBT - useful info, I'll upload to plod
You are allowed to proceeed through a red light if you beleive that it is not working or responding to you – of you stopped and waited then that should be fine. If anything, point it out whn you upload
Yeah this.
One of my regularly routes involves a quiet junction with sensor controlled lights that don't detect bikes. So for a cyclist they are effectively non functioning lights so I just ride through with care.
Late to the party but What NBT said.
There are two around here controlling traffic over narrow railway bridges which won't react to bikes. And a third on a bus lane which seems to eventually let you through on a timer*. I've gotten used to stopping, foot down, listen for cars and then carry on. The intermediate road is covered by IR sensors/cameras and you can see the LED's blink as you trigger them so it presumably knows you're on the bridge by that point and would stop traffic, it's just the induction loop at the stop lines that're useless.
For anyone bored, Pingewood road and Kirtons Farm Road as they cross the Reading West - Mortimer line. And the Meeroak Park bus lane crossing the A33.
*at a guess this seems to be about two or three cycles of the other car-lane lights which may or may not be fair, it is stopping a 6 lane Dual carriageway for you to cross 🤣
I have to jump one most days as it doesn't sense bikes, A707 Selkirk to Clovenfords. The first time I got off and waved at the sensor and nothing happened. Its on a blind bend so i just listen carefully and go if I cant hear anything.
One day I will get run over by an electric car
I’d submit it and be open about proceeding through the light and your reasons for it. Possible outcomes:
1. They ignore it or just say “that’s fine”. Happy days.
2. They try to nab you. Respond with the relevant legislation (not the bit from the HC: that’s not law); this assumes that the clause about the lights “not working” (which is not well defined in the HC and I’ve not checked the legislation) is in the actual law. In any case, this would be a dick move: name and shame the police force and let Cycling UK know, they’ll quite possibly step in.
3. They say they can’t pursue the close pass because you did something unrelated. Epic dick move (but have seen it before): a bit like saying they won’t prosecute an assault on someone who was caught nicking a loaf of bread a week ago. Again, name and shame and head to Cycling UK.
Whichever way it goes, you don’t stand to lose much. Worst case is you get to highlight dodgy police practices. (Which hopefully won’t be a thing anyway.)
Turn yourself in.
Normally they want two minutes before and after the incident, if its in that time scale then submit it.
I'm amazed they've been in touch.
I'd still be cautious and crop it out. If questioned I'd just say my Internet connection wasn't reliable / fast enough to upload the whole ride.
You don't know who might have just got (or gets in the future) pressure from an MP who's just had a letter from the "Bloody cyclists, always jumping red lights, something must be done!" brigade. I suspect it could be argued that showing a red light doesn't count as "not working" and you should have waited for the 10-minute time out or something. Either way, it could be a whole load of stress I could do without.
Mind you, I'm sat in my chair being risk-averse, not the one a driver nearly hit, so YMMV.
I’d still be cautious and crop it out. If questioned I’d just say my Internet connection wasn’t reliable / fast enough to upload the whole ride.
except they tell you to keep the original unaltered footage available. For a long time they were telling people to swap out the SD card and keep it safe, but they have now at least confirmed you can just copy the file from the card to a hard drive and keep it there
If you do get called to court and they say "well if you couldn't upload the whole thing over the internet, then bring it via some oher means" then you need to do that.
If the traffic lights are not working, treat the situation as you would an unmarked junction and proceed with great care.
My understanding on this is that "not working" does not mean not changing but rather not lit. So far as I know you will not find legislation or anything in the hwc to say you "may go through a red light [when... ] " (blues and twos etc excepted) you may find case law and precedent but the law as written is not ambiguous and is stop at a red light and wait.
IANAL
I doubt plod will care about the rlj though. (especially if you've stopped and waited an appreciable time before proceeding, regardless of the law being an ass, its unlikely you'd actually be expected to simply wait for ever because that's the law)
I think not be able to sense a bike counts as not working. If it's one which only changes to green when there is traffic coming and it doesn't recognise some kinds of traffic then that is not working.
If it’s one which only changes to green when there is traffic coming and it doesn’t recognise some kinds of traffic then that is not working.
No, that's just not working as you'd like, and demonstrably so. The issue even then though (and I think the whole reason there is no "you can proceed through red if) is it is working for other traffic meaning you're very likely to be proceeding through the lights when other traffic is showing green.
For anyone bored, Pingewood road
I know it well, it's on one of my regular loops, normally stop, listen and ride on if it's quiet. If there's a car I wait behind so they can trigger it...
I do reckon it'll get busier there when the green park housing estate and new station are finally finished...
I'd lawyer up. And start going to the gym.
Might also be worth thinking about book rights for when you get out.
I do reckon it’ll get busier there when the green park housing estate and new station are finally finished…
Good news / bad news, AIUI the bridge on Kirtons Farm road that passes the development, is being removed, they've been doing some work on it recently drilling test holes apparently, although I've no idea if/how that's related to it going.
Hard to tell from the developers map but it looks like road itself is staying as NCN23, but won't be open to traffic (there's no junction on the map).
https://www.berkeleygroup.co.uk/developments/berkshire/reading/green-park-village
They can't be considering an underpass, it would cost a fortune and be guaranteed to flood annually.
Wider bridge to eliminate the need for lights? Or turn it into a level crossing? Doubt they'd do that.
Thinking about it, they probably won't turn the current works entry into access for the yuppie estate, it would become a terrible rat run, and probably end up full of parked cars on match days once people work out they could walk to the Majeski...
TBH it's not really busy enough to justify an upgrade, so any work they're doing could be due to structural/ground concerns...
I seem to recall reading a story, possibly on road.cc. Similar circumstances but riding on a pavement instead of jumping a light. Police failed to deal with close pass but issued a fine for riding on pavement.
I'd a marked car overtake me and immediately turn left. Scared the bejesus out of me and it was full grip on thew brakes or I reckon I could have been off. It was a number of years ago.
A mate said I should have dropped the bike and lain there moaning 'oh my back my back' 😆 compo for a new bike.
If you do get called to court and they say “well if you couldn’t upload the whole thing over the internet, then bring it via some oher means” then you need to do that.
Indeed, but at that point they will not be prosecuting you so it’s largely irrelevant if they see something naughty several minutes before. I’d also suggest that the chances of a court managing to play a video on a random SD card that nobody has provided before the day are vanishingly small - they have enough trouble managing to play dvds provided by the police, weeks in advance!
No, that’s just not working as you’d like, and demonstrably so. The issue even then though (and I think the whole reason there is no “you can proceed through red if) is it is working for other traffic meaning you’re very likely to be proceeding through the lights when other traffic is showing green.
If cars weren't triggering it and they had to wait for a lorry to come along that would be not working wouldn't it? Why should a bike be any different? If some road users dont trigger it is not working.
If you do get called to court..
For a close pass?! ... back to reality. I'd edit it.