[Closed] Seems i need rim protection, best value for money?

What tyres are you running (sidewall, size), and what pressure?

nobby nics 2.6 rear and 2.8 front.
0.9 bar
not beefed up skeleton, but i'm weigh 65kg and don't seem to have issues with sidewalls, unless you think tougher sidewalls would stop them flexing far enough to pinch?

I’ve been impressed with Rimpact Sendnoodz (and not just because of the name).

more air pressure and better tyres.

I think swapping from Nobby Nics to a Hans Dampf maybe in super gravity might help here. I seem to recall the nobby nic being a XC/trail tyre?

Just had the planet x ones delivered £18 - yet to fit and try

David has been testing lots of them (on the website, yes, there's a website!) and thought these were good value.

Dammit, I knew there was something else i wanted to order with my PX socks

~12 psi on a 2.6" rear is way too low. I'm 70kg and am running more than that on a 29*3.

That does sound low pressure - especially on a nobby nic which isn’t
a hardcore tyre in any way.

I’d be tempted to up the psi a bit and stick one of those rimpact inserts in. Also, what rim are you running?

Yeah, err, I'd definitely be going for the free and sensible thing first. I weigh less than you and run about 18psi rear on non rocky stuff on a 2.4 EXO/29mm combo. Add another 3 or 4psi for rocky stuff. IMHO your pressures are way too low, and that's why you're damaging tyres and rims. If you're cornering with any enthusiasm I'm surprised you're not burping sealant and getting horrible wobbly feelings. Stick it up to about 16psi, it'll feel odd at first, but once you get used to it you can still reap the benefits of tubeless and likely have just as much grip, and more support.

i don't think so. in terms of grip and comfort on my trails it seems spot on, except for the occaisional dings on rough bits. i didn't arrive at that pressure just randomly. it's clearly at the limit and i do tend to go a little higher to be on the safe side, but this is the whole reason i'm looking at tyres inserts.

thanks hannah, i did go to The Website just after first post and found davids reviews.

yes heavier duty tyres would clearly help, but i didn't get on with hans damphs and my idea is not to move to heavier tyres. i'm not a radge rider, and i'm doing 'trail' or all mountain riding. nobby nics sould be fine. there are just certain places where it suddenly gets a bit rough and inserts seem like the best option.

i mean to say, yes i could clearly have avoided some of the damage by upping the pressure a bit. but i'm on plus tyres for a reason!
the rimes are WTB scraper 45s

More pressure required - even if you put an insert in, with that low pressure you'll feel the insert inside and tire and it will feel horrible, and ruin the insert

alright alright! : )

i'm fairly sure i used to run the front at 1 bar and the back at 1.2
i should obviously re-habituate myself to that

Yeah, just to reiterate, does sound low...NN user on the rear here and around 70kg kitted, found the NN squirmed under cornering to be run too low.

Running the NN with a Rimpact which has done its job so far

Seems i need rim protection, best value for money?

Padded shorts?
Saddle with a cut away central channel?

HOW TF do you lot run such low pressures??? Granted im probably about 85kg kitted up, but i still need to run ~28psi min on 26x2.35 HR and Minions - granted i ride quite hard, but much lower and i burp the cr8 out of my rear..

What width rims Sui? IME makes a huge difference! No way I could run the pressures I currently do on my old 21s.
My mate was pretty much peeling his Onza Ibex off his M1700s at about 21psi as well, no such issues on wider rims.
Sidewalls also make a big difference. I had a 2.3(?) Ardent race on the back of mine with paper sidewalls for a while, and it was horrible, felt like I was cornering on jelly and burped several times. Changed to an EXO Aggressor, no other variables changed, and it was much better.

I just fitted an effetto tyre invader on my HT, maxxis ardent 29x2.4 seems pretty easy to install. Dont need a new valve.

Rims are DT FR570's, so 30mm inner - not exactly weedy, but not on 32mm trend granted. The tyres are EXO's (though i will check).

never had any burps on my 45mm rims. beads are VERY snug. and don't really get squirm either. just below tat pressure i start to for sure. i don't corner hard i guess.

im struggling to see the point of these inserts other than the cushcore type

Watching

I put a Ratbite in the rear of mine, basically because I really like the Rock Razor but the light ones aren't tough enough. It's not just doing pinch protection, it's also taking care of "finish the stage/run despite having a flat, and not killing your wheel" duties. And I like it, it was lighter than most and seems to do the job, and you can order single inserts which is grand because I only wanted a rear. Haven't had a flat since I fitted it, and that did include a ride where I was just interested to see what happened if I ran really low pressures (answer- it felt orrible)

Can't compare with anything else but I did just order a set of Sendnoodz to try out, just because they work out slightly better for pairs and I want a pair for the mega.

Whyte's Panzer insert seems to be a better shape than most though, but they're bloody expensive.

Rimpact all the way for me!

Another vote for Rimpact here. They are fantastic and amazing value. Not just for rim protection either, they improved the feel of my bike and the lower pressures I can run give insane amounts of grip without ripping the tyre off the rim.

I'm another amazed at the low pressures some of you are running.
I know I'm a big lad, but still..
On the Comrie Croft test day I found all of the 5 bikes I borrowed were folding tyres and one burped on the berms and could feel the rim on rocks.

I don't have any experience of 45mm internal rims and I'm a chunk bigger than 65kg (81kg wet). In setting up my GF's bike going low on pressure has been a proven factor in taking confidence away from her riding.

A couple of years ago I had to fly back from the Alps for a business meeting and GF was left to her own devices with a track pump, digital pressure gauge and the knowledge that we'd been setting her up at 20/22psi. The track pump gauge overreads so it was somewhat predictable that, saving the fuss of using a second pressure gauge, GF went riding with lower pressure than normal. Hated it. Unsafe. Squirmy. We're talking 16/17 sort of thing with tough tyres.

So that gave a data point for too soft tyres.

Between 2010-2013 when I first started riding tubeless, I'd love the low pressures in winter but every spring as things dried out I'd get more confident, push against the tyres more, burp the tyres and full body dab. I've since gravitated to the more enduro-brah side of the sport which has been a mindset shift in tyre choice, tyre pressures, suspension setup all combined with riding style changes. All setup is compromise; e.g. grip vs support.

I've been reading this thread because rim protection is something I have no experience of. I sense a whiff of snake oil about it, just as "stuff your fork full of tokens" is shorthand for "koolaid trumps science" but (with no experience) I can see it aims to introduce progressivity into tyre response. Good or bad thing, I cannot tell. I like linear suspension but the frequency range encountered by the tyre tread is completely different compared to spring/damper systems in our shocks and forks so maybe different rules apply. I do kill rims from time to time but not in any circumstances where it didn't feel deserved.

If we're talking FS bikes, lots of pinch flats can come from the suspension being set up too soft. Bottom out means the load has to transfer to the tyre and you get pinch flats and rim dings. If HT, then riding soft is down to the rider.

"nobby nics 2.6 rear and 2.8 front.
0.9 bar"

Is that measured with a decent gauge? I wouldn't trust a pump's gauge at that pressure, mine were way out.

On my Levo I'm running about 23 or 24psi with 29x2.6 tyres (the rear is actually that big, the front is more like 2.4) and I'm close to 90kg. I noticed the Specialized Gripton Grid tyres are a bit lacking in damping and support compared to a 3C or even Dual compound Exo Maxxis, particularly the Butcher 2.6 - there's a very narrow window between squirmy and bouncy.

Adding the Rimpact foam inserts hasn't lowered the pressure I'm happy going down to (I really hate tyre squirm) but it has made the tyres feel calmer, more settled, less boingy. And obviously it's much harder to ding the rim with about half the tyre volume full of foam. I liked them enough I bought another set for my hardtail (in this case more to prevent rear pinch flats with a Minion SS 2.3).

I'd recommend 50mm diameter backer rod as a tubeless tyre insert, but it takes a bit of work to install. 10 x 2 metre lengths (a pack) cost about 25 quid and the two rim protectors I bodged together over a year ago are still in place and working in my 2.4 high rollers. No idea what they look like now but seem ok. I run 17 psi front and 21 in rear at 85ish kilos.

ah thank you cheifgrooveguru! i've remembered what's happening now with my pressures!
I DON'T run the rear at 0.9.

it's in fact that my pump measures 0.2 bar under the 'actual' pressure, at least according to 2 other pumps which both agreed and which i trust more, and an old fashioned tyre guage.

so i'm actually running more liek 1 bar front and 1.1 rear =16psi. so perfectly reasonable.

i still want rim protection then!

off to research what backer rod actually is...

right, that's what it is.
weird that i've never used it. i guess i just usually make stuff fit well enough not to need it : )
does it really last in the tyres tho?

For those who are using them are you running  them front and rear or just on the rear?

I use backer rod inside both tyres. Been on the bike now for about a year but since I haven't had the tyres off since then I can't say exactly what the condition is particularly next to the rims. Actually it was on here where I learned of a 50 mm diameter supplier: www.dortechdirect.com. There's a video on you tube where soneone does this ghetto setup but he cuts the backer rod lengthwise so it has a semi circular profile, but I've just put them in as rounds. The problem is 2 metre lengths aren't enough to go round the circumference of the wheel so you have to splice a shorter piece onto the 2 metre length. I've used 3 x 2m lengths for two wheels but still have a bit left over off the third length.
I found the best way to splice was to cut a wedge out of the ends of the 2 m length and a similar profile on the shorter length and by trial and error get the right circumference before joining both ends together using a couple of zip ties at each end. The best way is to mount the hooped rod onto a wheel to begin with for size but then take it off and fit the tyre on the rim, shove in the backer rod hoop and then tighten the zip ties as much as possible. The ends of the ties need to be cut ensuring the business end of the tie is tucked out of the way inside the backer rod. It is a bit of a faff but probably no more than any other rim protection (which I've never used). Then I mount the tyre on the wheel and inflate to pressure using my ghetto tubeless hand operated pressure washer! There's a great Skills with Phil video on youtube showing how to do that.
Then just add sealant in the tubeless valve stem which can be a bit tricky if the rod is really tight against the rim so it's best to put the spliced join in the rod directly below the valve. Bung in the valve core and inflate the tyre properly using a pump. I usually use a whole 250ml of sealant per tyre as the recommended amount wasn't enough to prevent gradual pressure loss overnight, I discovered.
I think the 50 mm of closed cell foam inside the tyre does a good job of avoiding rim dings but it seems to have moved a bit on the rear wheel as I recently had to shove a 2 mm hex key inside the valve stem to make a hole through the backer rod to add a bit more air.
It's very satisfying to have a bodge that doesn't cost too much and actually works but expect to spend an hour or two (maybe more) actually getting it right for each wheel because if it's not, and the sealant is in....well that's a mess. Both my attempts on each wheel actually worked first time but the rear was the second wheel and a better fit.
The really useful thing about backer rod is that if you get a flat and the sealant doesn't work there's no need to tube it as there's so much padding inside the tyre that you can make an exit on two wheels and not have to figure out what to do with the large foam hoop (see the mctrail rider video when he's in Spain, get's a flat, has to tube the tyre and ends up cycling through the middle of Segovia with a bright green martello air liner wrapped around his middle!
Ghetto rocks! (and I spend far too much time of youtube...)

By the way, I forgot to mention that since fitting the backer rod I've never had a flat or a rim ding, but then again, I'm not Aaron Gwin!

good on you jlln. yep doing things 'ghetto' is definately super satisfying.
i also spend far to much time on youtube : )

dou you not feel the rod in your tyre then? cos 50mm dia is quite a tall profile.
or have you just got used to it?

I don’t understand how anyone can be running under 25psi in a tyre. Do they not squirm / burp / roll off the rim frequently?

So far I've never had a problem with the tyre coming off the rim. Burping might be happening in the rear as I occasionally have to top up the pressure, or it could just be that the orange sealant is congealing - I've topped that up once this year too, as the original stuff is way beyond the recommended timescale for sealant. The tyre probably is squirming a bit but as a fairly new mountainbiker I'm far too focussed on staying on the trail to notice what the tyres are doing! As mentioned - no issues except topping things up from time to time.
The 50 mm foam probably takes up about 80 - 90 % of the tyre volume but if it's fitted tight to the rim the air will be around the outside of it. I think it's much better than just tubeless which in itself is better than tubed - more grip and less bounciness -and also probably supports the tyre sidewalls due to it's size. Seems ideal for 2.4" tyres, not sure about plus sizes, think I'd try a larger diameter but not sure about availabilty beyond 50mm. The only real issue for me has been adding more air, which since the insert seems to be rotating inside the tyre involves poking a new hole through the foam.
To be honest it's all trial and error about pressures and if your going to be riding hard then definitely more pressure required.
It will be interesting to see how the insert looks when I change the rear tyre at some point this year.

I use ratbites front and rear. Love how they support the tyre walls without changing the tubeless feel

16psi is clearly not "perfectly reasonable" if you're pinch flatting or dinging your rims.

The pinching and dinging is clear and uncontrovertable evidence of "too low" but you seem to want to ignore the obvious, so...

Looks like the ratbites might be the solution the OP needs. Sizes work out ok for plus-sized tyres...

Not the cheapest initial cost but my Pro-core set has lasted for years. I did have problems with the valves clogging until I moved away from Stans sealant.
I only use it when necessary as for most riding it’s pointless extra weight but I never have to worry about tyre seating or burping.
One issue is it doesn’t play nicely with my Stans Flow rims. Had to cut a rock razor off the rim once.

klunky

Member

I don’t understand how anyone can be running under 25psi in a tyre. Do they not squirm / burp / roll off the rim frequently?

Depends tons on the size of the tyre (or rather the volume of air, as this stuff is nonlinear and weird) and the sidewall. With 2.4 29ers, I run both ends at about 17, no burps, never rolled one off the rim... I am pretty light which helps. I just really don't like how they feel when they're harder.