[Closed] See those Bird hardtails...

New full sus out soon...info today:

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Yes, saw that on their Facebook page. Like the colour.

wowzers. these look excellent. its my birthday soon....

(At least) One of the guys from Bird is a regular on the bikeradar forum, it't been nice seeing them come to fruition. I quite fancy one too, they look loverly.

I think Ben Pinnick is on this forum as well...

IDK, they started off with the laudible idea of building bikes that would be 2 sizes longer than they should be, which would be great, I'd like a bike with a 17" seat tube and a 24"-25" top tube, but their large is a 19" seat tube with a 24" top tube and a relatively slack seat angle, making it actualy shorter than my el-mariachi which has a 110mm stem and I still umm and ahh over a frame 1/2" longer, and there's no way I could get a reverb in a 19" frame.

Maybe my legs are just short (32" jeans, 33" trousers at 6ft)

Hoping mine will be here by the weekend 🙂

OP - yes even since last week.
I'm sure the basic one was £1100 before!

They are bloomin impressive, these Bird chaps- I remember reading their posts on Bikeradar and thinking "Never going to happen" 😆

OP - yes even since last week.
I'm sure the basic one was £1100 before!

£1175 IIRC

The most appealing thing about them is that they've really thought through the specs.
Simple things like stem length can save someone messing about afterwards.
The XT Cassette keeps the cost of going 1x later low.
Tyres are exactly what I run, but they offer it on a £995 bike.
Tubeless setup
etc
etc

Very impressive.

Quite tempted but would like to try one for size and cant get up to their HQ. Not sure they are touring down in Devon for me to have a spin, so looks like I will be going for a Whyte 901 instead.

Not sure about Devon but Bird will be at Eastridge mini enduro.

scottfitz -

Not sure about Devon but Bird will be at Eastridge mini enduro.

That's good to know, but another 200 mile trip, 400 return!

Zero.AMX is a new model added to the range and a couple more fork options.

They're teasing with the FS:

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Looks like a CCDB

@coomber where are you based and how tall are you?

[IMG] [/IMG]

That is a very pretty blue.

It is a good blue - as I put on FB, looks like a single pivot with link-actuated shock.

It is a good blue - as I put on FB, looks like a single pivot with link-actuated shock.

Could be I guess - obviously that far dropout is pretty blurry. Difficult to see a seatstay pivot either though, so maybe you're right.

I reckon they'll have gone the single-pivot route though - like a Transition Bandit.

Looks like a long stroke shock, in relation to the potential travel. To improve small bump sensitivity?

New photo on their facebook..... not giving much more away, but sounds like it's going to be announced via Dirt today

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Not sure about the name... Just as you get really attached to the bike, Sephiroth appears and stabs it.

Not sure about the name... Just as you get really attached to the bike, Sephiroth appears and stabs it.

I got it too 🙂

FF geeks...

Everywhere

Twas the best and most memorable FF!

Big fat hairy aeris

Not sure about the name... Just as you get really attached to the bike, Sephiroth appears and stabs it.

Edit: Fwiw my cats have been/are are called Lucca, Terra, Locke and Sabin

That'd be the best spoiler ever, someone randomly picks it up in a steam sale having never heard of it, and just as they're getting to that bit they read this thread and FUUUUUUUUUUU

DK, they started off with the laudible idea of building bikes that would be 2 sizes longer than they should be, which would be great, I'd like a bike with a 17" seat tube and a 24"-25" top tube, but their large is a 19" seat tube with a 24" top tube and a relatively slack seat angle, making it actualy shorter than my el-mariachi which has a 110mm stem and I still umm and ahh over a frame 1/2" longer, and there's no way I could get a reverb in a 19" frame.

Maybe my legs are just short (32" jeans, 33" trousers at 6ft)

At 6ft4 a 21" seat tube is the max I can run with a 125mm reverb and i dont think thats particularly odd.

They do seem short. The L is shorter than my Salsa Spearfish or ElMar, and they are XC bikes. The XL is a little better but only because of the short headtube accentuating the 'reach' figure.

I think frames still get taller quicker than they get longer, on the basis that my seatube+post length is about 26" (about 18" + a reverb)and wear 32" trousers, anyone with a 21" frame (STATO) and a reverb must be 35"+?

Working back from that, assuming a 4" minimum insert on a 16.5" seatpost, that means the person that bikes intended for with the 35" insde leg could just as easily ride a 16.5" frame.

So whay are frame sizes not;

16
17 (but as long as an 18)
17.5 (but as long as a 20)
18 (but as long as a 22)
?

Surely if you can package the suspension into a 16" frame, then the forces/loads are all sorted as the back, it could even save cash by only needing one seatube size. Might just need to brace the headtube a bit better as the TT/DT angle is narrower.

And here we are, I like

[url= http://dirtmountainbike.com/fresh-produce/exclusive-first-look-bird-aeris-uk-based-650b-bike-brand.html#!bDWpXX ]Bird Aeris[/url]

[img] [/img]

Very tidy looking bike.
I worry slightly about FSR though - all the ones I've tried have been ground-huggers and difficult to set up to be poppy.

Nice looking bike, has the touch of the Turner about it

I'm a while from a new bike with them odd sized wheels but Bird are looking very nice, any reviews up yet for either bike?

What mountain bike /bikeradar have a review of the Zero.
To cut a long story short, amazing value, good geometry, harsh rear end.

oh - and it was a test-winner in MBR

Yep like that - £850 for frame and shock 😀

So how does anti-squat work on a horst link ?

I thought it was mostly done with short link systems and chain tension...

Anti squat is a function/feature of any rear suspension system. Horst, Singlepivot, dual link, whatever.

It's the propensity of the suspension to extend under power.

Inputs are chain tension and wheel thrust forces, movement of COG, angle of slope, and other things.

Bird frame interesting as seems to have a main pivot position that is in line with chainring, normal for a singlepivot bike, but with a Horst link too.

I will be interested to have a doodle in linkage to see what the graphs look like.

@thisisnotaspoon - the geo on Dirt is actually slightly wrong (my bad but its not that wrong so I wont get them to correct it), the Bird Aeris sizing is:

380 425 445 465 490 mm

or 15.0 16.7 17.5 18.3 19.3 in old money.

And thats with a full spread of ETTs.

So I am with you 100%.

I don't think many people need bigger than a 19 1/2in frame.
Reverb 150s are 430mm long and have an 80mm min insert!

I don't think many people need bigger than a 19 1/2in frame.

[img] [/img]

[img] http://tingilinde.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b54669e2012877aaa47b970c-640wi [/img]

Ben you doing different colours then?

I don't think many people need bigger than a 19 1/2in frame.

Oi! I do, with a nice long toptube too 😉

For the love of god do something about your lawn benpinnick.

[img] [/img]
/p>

Good looking bike though.

Oi! I do, with a nice long toptube too

*Interested*

What's your saddle rail to BB centre dimension?

BenPinnick

@thisisnotaspoon - the geo on Dirt is actually slightly wrong (my bad but its not that wrong so I wont get them to correct it), the Bird Aeris sizing is:

380 425 445 465 490 mm

or 15.0 16.7 17.5 18.3 19.3 in old money.

And thats with a full spread of ETTs.

So I am with you 100%.

Are you the chap I met at the London Bike Show?

yep thats me.

yep thats me

<thumbsupicon>

benpinnick - Member

@thisisnotaspoon - the geo on Dirt is actually slightly wrong (my bad but its not that wrong so I wont get them to correct it)

Not going to tell you how to do your job, but, I'd get it fixed if I was you- there's tons of us nerds out there that like numbers. It doesn't make any real difference but we don't care.

Is the BB drop right?
[url= http://dirtmountainbike.com/fresh-produce/fresh-produce-orbea-rallon-x-team.html#!bD2zEx ]Jones said this had a really cool BB height, but yours is lower.[/url]

Yeah its right brant - its low... not sure whats lower out there but I do know we'll not be making it any lower any time soon. we run 170 cranks (or 165s) rather than 175 and bashes across the range to keep the pesky rocks in check though.

Good work guys! I'm thinking 170mm cranks make more sense than 175mm for average height riders with the propensity for low BBs on modern geometry. I noticed the geo chart looking strange because the BB height was lower with the 150mm travel but the angles steeper, which is obviously the wrong way around.

Anyone curious about how suspension works, go on linkagedesign.blogspot, use google translate if you dont' speak Spanish, and try to get your head around the graphs. It's incredible how different the performance of two 4-bar systems can be, simply through small changes in pivot location. It's also pretty amazing how a single pivot like an Orange 5 can be made to pedal really well - but you're restricted with leverage rate and there's also the issue of lateral rigidity without other linkages.

I'm thinking 170mm cranks make more sense than 175mm for average height riders

Agreed, I ride 170s and am distinctly average, I think Sheldon's formula put me on about 167mm.

I get no pedal strikes on my Nimble 9 (On my old Blur, with 175s, it was a curse).

This looks smart.... What other colours will it be available in?

I noticed the geo chart looking strange because the BB height was lower with the 150mm travel but the angles steeper, which is obviously the wrong way around.

No, its the right way round - on the Aeris anyhow. The sagged geo (contrary to popular opinion sagging an FS does effect its geo) is what you would expect, but the linkage positions don't work like most bikes, you are changing the geo so it starts steeper/higher, but ends lower by a touch - more importantly its giving a different shock curve in 140 that 150. 150 is more resistant to bottoming while 140 has a longer 'sweet spot' where the shock is very supple in the mid stroke.

This looks smart.... What other colours will it be available in?

Tangerine Orange, Stormtrooper white, Bigfoot blue, Very Lime green and black as the night.

Saw one today at the ukge. Very nice looking too

No, its the right way round - on the Aeris anyhow. The sagged geo (contrary to popular opinion sagging an FS does effect its geo)

Yes, it's often misunderstood! It looks like the bike sits deeper in its travel at 150mm (30% sag) than at 140mm (21%). Is that due to the leverage curve or does it require changing the shock pressure? Your charts are with 531mm A-C which I guess is with one of the 140mm forks, so they'll be a bit slacker and taller with the 150mm forks. Geometric navel gazing... 😉 Is it warrantied to 160mm forks?

I spent a while sussing tweaking in my full sus with different pressures and settings front and rear plus three rear axle heights to choose from (Banshee) which affect BB height and angles. I like being able to have a local setting and gnarly uplift setting: A bit steeper and taller suits more twisty and pedally trails whilst lower and slacker suits point it down the hill and hold on trails.

TurnerGuy - Member
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Sure I've seen him round Swinley.

I will be interested to have a doodle in linkage to see what the graphs look like.

graphs look good.

thumbsup.

Thanks Brant 🙂 I will send you the real deal when I get back home (currently sat in a field... that has wifi 😮 )

The instant centre migration looks to be very clever 🙂

The FS looks really really nice, might look into em if/when I come into enough money.

Right. I just need to be convinced they can be set up to be poppy.

I haven't liked the Specialized FSRs I've tried because they soaked up too much energy for getting air of small trail features. Conversely, the Cotic Rocket was very lively in the same situations.

I'm hopeful that the high pivot point and progressive rate might help.
Obviously a test ride would be ideal.

This is not good. I was happy moving back to hard tails. Then I wished I'd bought a bird hard tail. Now I'm loving the look of the FS. Bums.

I might end up with a flock in a year or two.

I'm hopeful that the high pivot point and progressive rate might help.

you would hope that, being a Bird, it would take flight easily...

Thought I'd just chuck a few photos from around the web here, so that they're all in one place:

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Me likey looky.

Looks like the Aeris rides good too, What Mountain Bike liked it: [url= https://twitter.com/Bird650b/status/514330275820871680/photo/1 ]https://twitter.com/Bird650b/status/514330275820871680/photo/1[/url]

Doing a frame only option for less than 900, bit of a challenger for the 650b codeine me thinks.

Those fs are a bit much for the plethora of swinley locals that are lapping them up.

Geo/suspension definitely sounds good for an enduro race machine mind.

Was liking the look if these Bird hardtails the other week, then this full suss pops up, looks good, like what these guys are doing. We need more British manufacturers like this. 😀

Do we know where the Bird frames are made yet?

Might be a toss up between Birds or on one, of which I am suspicious of because the frames are cheeply priced.

Bird are Taiwan at the moment.

Cheers AlexSimon 🙂

AlexSimon - Member
Bird are Taiwan at the moment

Like most bikes, including Santa Cruz. Same factory even I think.

or on one, of which I am suspicious of because the frames are cheeply priced.

Nothing wrong with their frames. The price just reflects lower margins or lower business costs. The 456 models of various forms are some of the toughest frames about. Though nothing is indestructible.