[Closed] Seatpacks and bikepacking luggage

Greg May has done a review of the Ortlied seatpack, you could also go through the reviews at http://bikepackersmagazine.com/category/reviews/ if you are looking at US made stuff (there's Revelate as well for example). Note that in the review of the Wildcat Tiger he hasn't fastened it properly to the seat rails so it's not as loose as that in use. With seatpacks there's two main camps: integral and separate harness/bag, some like the former, some the latter.

I've got Wildcat for my main three bags plus some Alpkit stuff for the smaller bags.

lad was on here the other week complaining his altura fell apart after a couple of rides.

was fondling the frame bag in cycle highlands on saturday - it seems a bit lack lustre - very thin in comparison to wifes alpkit and my wildcat - i dont see it lasting.

apidura a bit thicker , ortlieb alot thicker.

blackburn somewhere in the middle.

alpkit.com, got a few items and all holding up well so far

Revelate - you can get it from backcountrybiking in Aviemore now.
Wildcat always gets good reviews and it's made her in the UK.

Chap at the bike shop in Ambleside mentioned
Arkel Seatpacker 15

Touring.

it's made her in the UK.

Yup, it's great to see Beth doing well.

Cheers for this, Whitestone:

Note that in the review of the Wildcat Tiger he hasn't fastened it properly to the seat rails

Got me looking back at the [url= http://www.wildcatgear.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Wildcat-Tiger-instructions.pdf ]instructions[/url], and I wasn't doing it right either!

Touring.

Not

Touring?

Cheers a few to look at, pity about the Altura one as initially it looked quite good.

After seeing a thread about it on here I got one of these: http://www.ktmbikes.eu/ktm-bikes/eshop/4-1-CYCLING-ACCESSORIES/0/5/1023-KTM-Saddle-Bag-Tour-XL-18L

Worked really well, feels pretty sturdy, like it will last awhile.

other users reviews on here say otherwise RE KTM.

after a few uses the stitchings started to come out of the seat straps.

I can also add ural tour seat packs to those to avoid- piss poor and waggle about like a barn door in the wind.

the ural tour frame bags are good though.

other users reviews on here say otherwise RE KTM.

I've only used it on one 3 day trip so far. Would be a shame if it doesn't hold up

I should mention that the seat pack is probably the easiest of the three main bikepacking style bags to sort out. Frame bags need to be custom to your frame unless you are lucky and a standard one fits. Front bags/harnesses can foul your brake and gear cabling so needs quite a bit of thought in how to sort all that out.

I'm looking for a seatpack but the rest of the luggage may follow eventually and I like matching stuff.

Im like you, if I can get my stuff to match I will, but for seat pack and bar harness the Wildcat stuff outranks any ive seen. Im not sure about the dry bag they offer, the taper one from alpkit is what I use and such a good shape a size.

Top tube bag I still think revelate beat everyone with their gas-tank.

Frame bags ive only used Revelate so far, a tangle and 2 salsa/revelate designs for specific bikes. Need a new one and not decided between Wildcat and Alpkit yet, probably Wildcat to match the seat pack but with some details from the Alpkit 😀

I'm waiting for this to come out:

https://www.ridepdw.com/goods/cargo/the-bindle-rack

And then get a dry bag of the correct colour. The rack can have other stuff attached to it and will hopefully eliminate waggle.

Failing that the ortlieb looks very sturdy.

My friend ordered a set of the Altura luggage before we did a ride last month. As soon as it arrived he sent it straight back, said it just didn't feel up to the job. He then went with [url= http://www.alpamayodesigns.com/ ]Alpmayo Designs[/url], really nice, well thought out and worked a treat! I've got a mix of Alpkit and Apidura stuff and very happy with both, but going to get myself the Alpamayo front harness and pouch as I think it's a better design than the options from the other two.

Any reason why folk use seat packs and not rear racks? I use a rack for my trips on the fat bike and it worked really well. Only downside is a bit more weight. My mates seat post mounted solution was much more trouble.

As far as bar mounted kit goes I use one of the bar accessory extenders and use it to prop up whatever I strap to the bars and give the brake cables some breathing room.

faustus - Member
I'm waiting for this to come out:

https://www.ridepdw.com/goods/cargo/the-bindle-rack

Rated to 534 kgs

Impressive! (they missed the decimal point)

The alpkit gear has improved recently with much better (grey) buckles.
The old black ones are shocking are break too easily.

But between me (alpit) & my mate on wildcat I'd go for a [url= http://www.wildcatgear.co.uk/shop/seat-systems/wildcat-tiger-drover/ ]wildcat drover[/url] with either their own dry bag or the [url= https://www.alpkit.com/products/airlok-xtra-tapered ]alpkit airlok[/url]

The wildcat is much more stable infact it is rock solid where as the alpkit tends to flap a bit

Any reason why folk use seat packs and not rear racks?

Been asked a few times. Possibly because the mountain bikes didn't have eyelets for traditional type racks/panniers so the early bikepackers looked at what was around and modified saddlebags. A quick bit of searching and it seems that the first to appear was only ten years ago, so quite why no-one knows for definite is a bit odd.

From http://www.bikepacking.com/gear/bikepacking-seat-pack-evolution/ we have:

"[i]For those unfamiliar, the seat pack is that curious stuffed missile that get’s strapped under the saddle at the rear of the bike. Its placement is inspired by traditional saddle bags, such as the classic canvas designs by Carradice, but the seat pack is designed for more rugged use and its structure is a bit more streamlined as a result. This was a revolution to ultralight multi-day mountain bikers who are able replace the typical below-the-saddle tool bag and carry much more gear in a way that’s significantly lighter and more aerodynamic than traditional panniers.[/i]"

Racks are good if they fit. Advantages are you can carry more stuff if you want to, but they are still a bit heavier (tortec alu ~600g, Wildcat seat harness ~200g).

9 of us used various manufacturers stuff the other weekend on a 3 day trip round Cairngorms. Brands included Blackburn, Apidura, Revelate and Wildcat. The Apidura stuff seemed to be liked least, seatpacks in particular quite unstable. Blackburn seatpack similar. The frame bags were all pretty decent.

The Revelate stuff was the fave, but also priciest.

[img] ?oh=907f8159541c5ae1afd8f5af22914215&oe=57D82BB4[/img]

I fancy some kind of bag that can strap securely to a rack and be compressed, rather than a tradition pannier which would bounce ask over the place off road...

I'm waiting for this to come out:
> https://www.ridepdw.com/goods/cargo/the-bindle-rack

you can make something 90% as good as that from any old rack and a seatpost collar adaptor mount for very little £ indeed, and works well.

you can make something 90% as good as that from any old rack and a seatpost collar adaptor mount for very little £ indeed, and works well.

I had been looking into this, Salsa seat collar with rack bolts and some stuff from a kite supply shop.

I fancy some kind of bag that can strap securely to a rack and be compressed, rather than a tradition pannier which would bounce ask over the place off road...

I've seen Alpkit bags strapped to a rear rack. Seemed to be fine.

"I've seen Alpkit bags strapped to a rear rack. Seemed to be fine."

im sure it is - and id expect it to be - only its about 800 grams heavier than it needs to be with no discernible benefit.

The reason for the 200gram holster is its literally 3 clips and your dry bags free to take stuff i nand out or the whole dry bag into the tent/bothy/tarp/bnb/5star hotel instead of fannyying around with straps to get it on and off or stuff in and out.

I'd be happier putting more weight on a rack than under my saddle, mind.

weight is not your friend.

But you aren't really carrying more than two or maybe three kg in the saddle pack anyway. Usually it's just clothing, any dense/heavy stuff will be in the frame bag. Even with a lot of kit I'll only have eight Kg spread around the bike, most of the time and especially in summer the kit weight is four to five kg.

molgrips - Member

I'd be happier putting more weight on a rack than under my saddle, mind.

The great thing about not being able to carry extra weight, is not carrying extra weight. Its amazing what you can manage without when you cant carry everything you would like.

Having said that, a mate used a light rack to carry all his stuff in a rucksack on an offroad trip, obviously it survived fine on normal xc stuff, and for anything lairy he just wore it as a pack. Simple sometimes is best.

im sure it is - and id expect it to be - only its about 800 grams heavier than it needs to be with no discernible benefit.

In the case I described, we were on a leisurely road tour in France. I don't think anyone was unduly bothered about hauling a pannier rack around.

I'm well aware of the advantages of lightweight bikepacking. But sometimes you might want to take more. Like, for example, crossing an arid region where you'd want plenty of water. I'd imagined a sort of saddlebag affair where the side bits were triangular to match the rack sides. You could strap it all down tightly and the weight would be as close to the rear axle as possible and hardly affect handling. That might be tricky for a bladder, having said that, but bottles could be good perhaps.

I also have a feeling the traditional rack could be redesigned for bikepacking purposes. Anyone have the means to bend alu tubes? Or lay up carbon fibre?

Btw the rucksack/rack idea had also occurred to me, and I'd consider it for anything that was to include technical bits. But then again, I might as well just use a rucksack - for some reason I don't mind this much at all, having done enough Polaris challenges this way. If my kit's light enough I don't notice. Helps with bike carrying too.

Read Greg May's blog about his kit for the Tour Divide http://www.gregorymay.ie/?p=2998 as to how he intends to deal with the long arid sections.

I've got 800km on one of those KTM bags, 50:50 on:off-road. Stitching OK so far but I can see how it might go; rest of the bag is fine, and I intend modding it to eliminate future stitching problems.

I met someone with one of those new Blackburn bags - the stitching had completely come apart within a week where the rail straps attach on the top.

Racks and drybags work fine if you want/need to carry more weight, or already have them and don't want to spend extra money.

Conversely I ha e one of the Blackburn frame bags and it seems a well made bit of kit.

Ive not tried a saddle bag. After considering all the options I decided a rack would probably be better for me. Yes it is more weight but it keeps the weight lower on the bike and doesn't move around, which I've read can be a problem with some saddle bags.

Im happy with the compromise.

Yep wouldn't bother with the Altura one, mines gone back for repair.....

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/altura-vortex-seat-pack-worth-the-money

Will be using my own additional compression strap and glueing some inner tube to the inside of the seat tube strap.

It's a shame as the bag itself is nice, kept all my stuff dry on my rides, just didn't like some of the drops on Dartmoor..

Those generic Altura framebags make Wildcat custom ones look bloody good VFM.

I use these. Apidura compact bar and seat.
I haven't filled either bag full yet but for me these are just great.
2 things to watch:
A) if you pack the bar bag with not a lot, then it's a bit wobbly and the fold in (roll ends) stick out a bit which is a bit annoying. To fix this I've mocked up some more bungee cord and do a sort of end 2 end wrap to keep the ends in.
B) again withe the rear if you don't load it fully it's a bit baggy, but it does fold up nice enough and I've never caught my legs on it (yet) also if you do overload it and honk out of the saddle it can swing around a bit, not a lot but you do feel the weight.
Oh, C) I use an inner liner bag inside the seat pack because it does let a bit of water in if its torrential, fine in drizzle and such but watch for that.. And no, I don't use guards ...

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Tbh on leisurely tours at the expense of looking like one of the cool kids I just throw on panniers.right tool for the job n all that

"Anyone have the means to bend alu tubes? Or lay up carbon fibre?" Both. What you thinking

I have the alpkit kanga handlebar harness (used for commuting 3-4 times a week) also their £18 dry bag/seatpack. I'm really pleased with both. Service from appkit has also been really good.

I also use a salsa minimalist rack on my road bike occasionally which is pretty similar to the PDW rack. Especially if you remove the support bars and strap it to the rack.

I really like the ease of use from the harness as i can just whip the dry bag out and leave the harness attached, When i look at a new seat pack i will certainly be looking for something like the wildcat or the restrap that use dry bags,

Full set of Revelate kit here - seat pack, harness, dry bag, front and rear top tube bags, frame bag

I like it!

"Anyone have the means to bend alu tubes? Or lay up carbon fibre?" Both. What you thinking

Sort of like front low-rider racks, but for the back wheel with a brace over the wheel to hold the two sides together. Each side being a square-ish frame you could then sew a square ish bag to fit each side with compression straps to keep everything really secure. Weight would be low down, to reduce impact on handling, frame would be free to fit bottles, and you might even not need a big thing dangling off your handlebars.

Better still if we could somehow engineer a rubber bumper of some kind to iron out some vibrations on the load - I think that'd make the whole thing ride better, rather than for protecting the load.

I fancy some kind of bag that can strap securely to a rack and be compressed, rather than a tradition pannier which would bounce ask over the place off road...

Sort of like front low-rider racks, but for the back wheel with a brace over the wheel to hold the two sides together.

[img] [/img]

- Fern bags. Micro-panniers and racks getting more attention, good to see these guys working on it. Porcelain Rocket micros look good. Still, an aero advantage to a bar and seat bag and if you're only carrying a couple of kg per bag the weight location makes little odds on a road bike.

Personally I'm a huge fan of Wildcat seatpack and bar stystem, simply a better design for how I want to use this sort of kit. Miles ahead, even.

Do you get by with just the seat pack ans bar bag?

i must admit that i see little merit in concentrating all the weight over the back wheel like that - the bike will ride horribly and jar you over bumps.

as per james O i use a seat pack and bar harness from wildcat(holding my sweetroll - which although is a "harness/bag combo" its got some design flaws and works better with a harness) - in conjunction with the ocelot that lives on my MTB perminantly carrying my essentials.

When im doing multi day or long distances between food i take my camelback blowfish for reserves - although i like gregmays packable ultra vest idea.

Do you get by with just the seat pack ans bar bag?

i must admit that i see little merit in concentrating all the weight over the back wheel like that - the bike will ride horribly and jar you over bumps.

I'd do it with something on the front as well, to balance out. With 5kg or so I think it would work well and be a nice tidy solution. Not sure about jarring - the extra weight would force the wheel and tyre to take more of it and send less of the shock up the seatpost into you.

For up-front usage, I'm interested in Salsa Anything cages since I have the mounts on my fork.

The blackburn cage and gorilla cage seem like good (and cheaper) alternatives to salsa hd cages.

are the salsa mounts on the back of the fork leg or the side ?

some of the folk ive ridden with recently have had anything cages mounted on the outside of their forks which in some of the singletrack ive taken them down has caused them issues - iirc some of the salsa forks have them behind which eliminates that issue

Surly mounts are also backward facing

are the salsa mounts on the back of the fork leg or the side

Sort of at 2 o'clock/10 o'clock position on a carbon Firestarter. You could hit things, yes.

Heres a pic of my CXer in Gravel Touring mode. Taken a couple of weeks ago before the start of my C2C via the NCN72.
As mentioned above I use Apidura Compact Seat and Bar. In the seat I pack overnight gear (for hotel restaurants/casual stuff) and in the front all my cycling gear, tools, lock, charges etc.
Obvz this is all weather dependant on what you take, but if got it down to a few key items that I always take and just add/takeout stuff I need/don't need.

I'm off doing the NCN2 tomorrow, as the weathers nice I've plenty of room in the rear, then off to do a tour of the Netherlands in a couple of weeks and expect both bags to be rammed..

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bikebuoy - do you find the Apidura seatpack swings around a lot ? A few guys on our Cairngorm 3 dayer the other week found them like big pendulums, albeit on fairly rough singletrack on mtb's

I reckon pretty much any seat pack will do that if you load it wrong Iain. There's always a temptation to put one more item in there!.

I've got the smaller of the Apidura seatpacks and as said above it only swings about if not loaded/tightened very well. Having seen pictures of the bigger version with the two seatpost straps, I can imagine that moving around as it sticks out so far to the rear of the bike.

Nobeerinthefridge - Member
I reckon pretty much any seat pack will do that if you load it wrong Iain. There's always a temptation to put one more item in there!.

actually, the consensus was that the straps don't tighten up enough nobeer, so almost the opposite. Comment was also made that there is too much of the back end of it behind the compression straps, hence the pendulum analogy. My Revelate Pika was solid, but it's a fair bit smaller in volume than those big Apidura ones, so I have a 20L Evoc on my back too, in conjunction with Revelate Tangle frame bag for the heavy stuff 🙂

The seat pack does wobble around a bit if you are honking out of the saddle yes. But you have to pack all the heavy stuff at the bottom near the post, that way the CofG is lower. You'll not eliminate it from " swinging " but it's not like a clock pendulum no, just a slight weight feel. I'm used to it, it's no bother. Even on some rough Gravel (The Ridgeway for instance) it's still fine and I over packed for that trip.
But yes, the straps whilst good enough, don't tighten the whole bag down since there is only one either side of the rear opening that you can pull down hard, the other straps go under the seat rails and as much as you tighten them there is a bit (tiny) slack..
You see the bungee cord on the front pack? I've concocted that to keep both roll ends in, without that the roll ends expand out and catch the bars which annoys me.. Easy fix though.

That swinging motion is what wears through the rail straps eventually. Killed my first bag that way. Worth trying to minimize it, which is were the Wildcat bag wins for me. It's not immune to the same issue but it took me a lot, lot longer to start to wear the Wildcat rail strap, at which point they just sewed a new one on for me. Brilliant kit with service to match.

Wildcat and Revelate do seem to suffer less from the swinging.

I guess in a year and a few K's off-road/touring and I'll think like you guys, but for now the bags are great.

Gets me out in the open air whilst sporting a toothy grin any ways...