Being challenged on the leg length it's great for me that more manufacturers are improving stand over heights with their frames. What I don't understand is that they then use a towering seat tube, restricting choice of dropper post drastically, or meaning I can't size up. Most of the mags rave about being able to choose frame on reach rather than seat tube. I'm finding with the exception of one or two makes, I'm still stuck with a choice of one size. Come on manufacturers chop an inch off those seat tubes.
Same problem here. My bikes are all a size small. Can only just fit a 125mm reverb in one of the frames. And that's the older reverb. The newer ones are 10mm longer from the bottom to the collar. If I need to replace it, only a 100mm reverb will fit now. Still better than a standard post though.
Agree. 30" inseam here and I need medium bikes, most of which will come with 150mm Brand-X type droppers. Even a 125mm is too long on many. So I have to factor in the cost of swapping it for a OneUp 150 and possibly shimming it down by 10mm.
Not all makes are like this. I’m 5’9 with a 32” inside leg. My Bird Aether 7 in medium has a really short seat tube - think it’s 390mm or 395mm vs the frame having a reach of 457mm. 425mm chainstays and a 65 degree headangle. Think the seat tube is 76 or 77 degrees off the top of my head. There must be other bikes similar - I think that new Privateer 141 has a pretty short seat tube vs reach.
The more forward thinking manufacturers are speccing decently short seat tubes, if I can't fit a 200mm dropper than its a big minus point.
Yep, I'll join the queue and agree with that on seattubes
New issue for me is stack height as well: I like 29ers but I also find I prefer my setup with a low front end (clearly I have short legs and long arms...Im really just a monkey 🐵) but long headtubes and low BBs mean I cant get the front lower enough to suit me
The Bird bike are more like it, the Privateer doesn't have that short a seat tube and is a great example of what I mean by a massive tower of seat tube above the top tube. So far Ibis seem to have the best options for me - 380 or less for a medium frame, 420 or so for a large.
That new privateer 141 in size 2 has a 470mm reach and 420mm seat tube which doesn’t seem too bad tbh.
Stanton seem to be bad for this though - when I was looking recently I was surprised how long some of the seat tubes are. I’ve specced a 395mm on my Marino hardtail frame to allow a big dropper and loads of standover height.
As an XL rider at 6ft 3in, my bikes have seen a general reduction in seat tube size: 523mm -> 485mm -> 470mm.
(previous -> current -> next)
This is "A Good Thing'.
Not sure how much longer droppers can go but my 150mm post on my current bike still gets in the way, waiting for a wireless 200mm to make an appearance.
My old school bikes are all about 430 for a medium frame, 420 isn't really that much progress particularly if you have a 29" inside leg. That Privateer would be so much more appealing if they removed 20 mm from that long section above top tube. With a 150mm ape index, I would so like to try a larger frame.
The Aether 7 probably does alright for you on this front - depending on the reach you’re after:
M - 395mm ST / 457mm reach
ML - 420mm ST / 479mm reach
L - 445mm ST / 504mm reach
XL - 470mm ST / 527mm reach.
You’ll looking at it the wrong way, the bikes the right size for you are too short in the top tube, you shouldn’t be sizing up.
Im 6’5” and struggle to find a seat post long enough, I’m running a 210 dropper on my XL rocketmax and have 120 mm more of the post out of the frame, nearly on the max extension!
Most manufacturers have made the seat tubes shorter so smaller riders can ride them, but they haven’t made a bigger size for the taller riders.
I'm also 6'5", I know I can fit on a 480mm seat tube but any shorter than that I might struggle. I forget who it is but I've seen some recent bikes with >500mm reach and a 460mm seat tube, I think they might have gone too short for us lanky riders
Interesting, would seem XL frames are getting seat tubes too short and mediums too tall.
IMO XL bikes seat tubes aren't too short, it's just they need 200mm+ droppers fitted as standard.
There's a limit to how short you can go (And we/Bird are probably there) - much shorter and you cant get the post in anyway, so you just end up with post showing rather than tubing that could be used to support the post better, and you get too short on the long end.
All our 3rd gen bikes (Aethers & AM9 Mk3) are designed for a 200mm+ dropper for everyone except the Small and mediums which are 150 & 170 respectively - of course if you can run longer thats all good, we just don't expect to be able to run it fully slammed.
Personally I hate the look of long seattube towers, is it a case of manufacturers making standover height too low because riders as short as 5'5" are being made to think maybe they should try a large.
Do the tallest riders find super low standover a help or hinderance, would a bigger increase in headtube length and more appropriate toptube be the way forward for XL.
@benpinnick - As you say Bird seem to have it right but there are still brands with 430 seat tubes on M frames which restricts you to 125 droppers if you're a shorter legged individual.
UK-FLATLANDER
Full MemberWhat I don’t understand is that they then use a towering seat tube, restricting choice of dropper post drastically, or meaning I can’t size up.
Basically, a lot of bike companies are just stuck in the past on this. No other reason. If you're making a trail or enduro bike today that can't take a long dropper post, even if the rider's sized up, you're doing it wrong.
Sizing up's part of hte problem, since mostly we do that because the bike's too short. And unsurprisingly that's something that the tall seat tower people are more likely to do. But even then, I ride an older, sized-up bike and it can still take a 185mm seatpost no issues (and even then, the only limit is that there's a pivot in the tube)
Go custom? I got a Marino with a 380mm seat tube and 420mm reach.
Do the tallest riders find super low standover a help or hinderance, would a bigger increase in headtube length and more appropriate toptube be the way forward for XL.
I'm not the tallest on here (6'2", mostly legs) and well over 100mm of dropper post sticking out of an XL frame, 170mm dropper. I don't think an ever-increasing standover does help on my trail bike, beyond where things are now - I don't think I need the saddle down at my mid-calf to feel I can move the bike (rather I think it's counterproductive when too low, excepting dirt jumps and trials).
I do think this is a great time for taller riders though, the choice of bigger/longer bikes and long droppers is better than ever. I suppose if you are at either end of the sizing bell curve, the choices will be more limited as they always have been.
The added complication is that even when manufacturers do spec a short seat tube, they are often kinked / interrupted in such a way which restricts how far a dropper can be inserted.
I have a medium Transition Scout alloy. The geo is generally spot on, and even the seat tube (410mm) on paper seems fine; however the max insertion depth of a post is 180mm, which leaves around 40mm of the post lower sticking out of the frame. It's frustrating, as if it would push just a bit further in I could probably run a 180 dropper instead of having to shim mine down to 140.
There's a few XL frames out recently that I can't get minimum insertion with a 200mm dropper as the seat tube is so short. Should be noted I don't even run my saddle that high considering my height. Very few circumstances where I find a dropper over 150-170 useful anyway. Not to mention they're heavier and less durable due to the added leverage on the internals. That's why some companies are moving to 34.9 droppers. So I think designing around 200 droppers is a mistake. Maybe on longer travel bikes. I can fit them on the bikes I have now without super short seat tubes.
Stupidly low standover heights are annoying. I'm glad the days of looking like I'm riding a farm gate are over. But some companies take it to far. Now it looks like I'm riding a frame way too small, and depending on suspension layout, makes the shock harder to reach.
The other thing I'd say about sizing is while reach and top tubes have gotten a bit longer in the last few years they've still failed to compensate for how much shorter stems have gotten, steeper seat angles and inline rather than set back posts that were common before. I think this is part of why a lot of riders want to size up nowadays and that's the real issue that needs sorting.
@mudeverywhere - you're spot on with the "effective reach", especially when seated. I have been looking at possible replacements to my old 26" xc full susser and when you account for stem every thing is so short.
6ft with 31” inside leg 170mm dropper on 470mm seat tube other bike 483mm seat tube with 170mm dropper no issues
They are getting better, but at the same time seatposts are getting even more drop.
I can live with the 450mm-ish seat tubes on my bikes but 410mm would be even better.
