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been into Specialized concept store in Harrogate today. just to do a bit of tyre kicking.
i seem to have been living in a bubble regarding bike prices. my dearest bike purchase came to 5k which i now realise was far far too much, and probably a complete waste of cash.
the first 3 bikes i looked at totalled £36000
they were pretty gorgeous........... but wow.
@ton, I went in once, looked at the incredible prices and the 10 staff sat round doing nothing and left.
Its the only bike shop I walk past and don't go in to have a look round.
Harrogate
There's the reason.
I’ve had 3 bikes from them plus countless parts, and use the workshop regularly. One of the better LBS’s I’ve used.
New prices are eye watering. We only tend to buy in the sales.
That way it's not what you spend its what you save. Last new purchase had 50% off
I went into the Nottingham specialized concept store a while back.
There was an e bike reduced from £13,000 to £10,000. That was a shock!
I am quite sure I'm not in the target market for that bike.
I went in the other day and asked about spokes for a wheel build. My 4 year old got very bored so we counted things. While doing that I priced the shoes. None under £100.
RRP is just wishful thinking. The inevitable 40% discounts are built in.
Bike prices have always been scary at the top end, in 1997 a Yeti Lawill 6 frame was £3,000, that's £6,842 in today's money.
Then came cheap far Eastern manufacure and cheap shipping which gave us a few decades of bargain prices, both of those are now fading into the past so we're back to where we were in the 90's.
It's unlikely to reverse any time soon I'm afraid.
Not in Harrogate
They were offering the standard discounts on Chisel and Epic HT last time I was in.
Those £12K push bikes are the same price as a Brand New Triumph 900 Tiger, how can that be ????? 🤔
Oh no, not the Fortnine video again.
Destined to be posted into every single thread about bike prices until the end of time.
I just watched. Summary of the answer to why mountain bikes + motorbikes cost the same: they just do, okay.
Could be worse Ton, you might want a track bike. Team GB new version of the Hope-Lotus is just £55k. Factor is $100kAus. Of course they have to offer them but don’t actually want anyone to buy them. Especially competing countries. The equally funky new Look P24 is yours for a bargaintastic £12k you get a chainset, but no wheels bars or saddle.
That said, the Di2 S-Works aethos almost had me emptying the piggy bank and switching to discs. Almost.
RRP is just wishful thinking. The inevitable 40% discounts are built in.
We have an industry’s that will Be looking for them to become history
"It’s just that particular video is now a guaranteed post on threads like this on multiple websites."
That's because every time bike prices are mentioned, someone will be guaranteed too come along and say "you could buy a motorbike for that"
🙃
You'll also get people pointing out that you can't get a Moto GP motorbike for £12k, but you can get a World Cup XC race bike.
Buy a pair of hiking boots and leave the overpriced kashima coated bicycle industry to pedal up its own arse. It's what I've done.
You can also get a new car for £10K which seems even better value than a £10k motorbike but you can also get a watch for £10K which seems less value. Well it does if you don't have the ability to think about it for a few minutes.
You can also get a rideable bike for £500 and a pretty decent one which would meet 99% of peoples actual needs (rather than desirers) for £2k.
Last mtb I bought was in 2013.
An XT equipped good mid/high range mtb. Cost me £1,400 reduced from £1,800 which I though was quite a bit of money
Yep bikes are overpriced these days hence why all the massive discounting that’s going on
However the cheapest new cars on sale these days are over £15k or something. Wasn’t long back you could buy a new car for £7/8k
That store in Harrogate is nothing unique. Most bike shops IMO only carry the silly priced stuff and then wonder why it doesn’t sell
Primroses and landscapes, he (the director) pointed out, have one grave defect: they are gratuitous. A love of nature keeps no factories busy. It was decided to abolish the love of nature, at any rate among the lower classes; to abolish the love of nature, but not the tendency to consume transport. For of course it was essential that they should keep on going to the country, even though they hated it. The problem was to find an economically sounder reason for consuming transport than a mere affection for primroses and landscapes. It was duly found.
"We condition the masses to hate the country," concluded the Director. "But simultaneously we condition them to love all country sports. At the same time, we see to it that all country sports shall entail the use of elaborate apparatus. So that they consume manufactured articles as well as transport.
I think that sums it up.
I’ve never bought a new mtb and I’ve been riding them for 30 years. Second hand every time for me. The prices have always been way out of range for what I’m comfortable to pay.
RRP is just wishful thinking. The inevitable 40% discounts are built in
Ah yes. The margin.
I walked into a Porsche dealer the other day and couldn’t believe how expensive new cars are
You can buy a GTS spec porsche Macan EV for the price of 6 top end ebikes. Porsches are not expensive compared to bikes.
And that really highlights why you can't compare MTB to motorbike price too. Mtbs are an assembly of parts. Well Known, branded, separately purchasable parts. The only bit you're really choosing is the frame. When you buy a motor vehicle your buying into thousands of parts chosen for you by the manufacturer, and well as service regimes, emissions levels, engine output ... Endless and complex variables set by the manufacturer, versus assembling up to a couple of thousand of pounds of off the shelf components onto their frame design.
It’s a bit weird that superbike prices are now just normal prices
They get attention and create an impression of overall prices, partly it's a symptom of how most of us are finding money is tighter than it used to be but the wealthiest 5% or so aren't affected by the same factors and are still spending on bikes. Unit sales of these top end bikes aren't high but it's probably where a bike company needs to be at the moment if they can. The mid range market is trashed while the premium luxury end is doing ok, relatively.
You can buy a GTS spec porsche Macan EV for the price of 6 top end ebikes. Porsches are not expensive compared to bikes.
Or you could buy 70 Sonder Transmitters. Just because Specialized's top-end halo S-Works stuff is exorbitantly expensive, doesn't mean that bike prices per se are nuts, which seems to be the gist of this thread.
We've not had the condescending "nobody's forcing you to buy them" comment yet.😀
The prices of e bikes would be slightly more acceptable if they were reliable, unfortunately theyre not.
I think that’s a huge point and I’d add serviceable with known parts supply. It’s one thing spending £6k knowing it should still work in 8 years and quite another wondering if in 5 years whether speed controllers, batteries and motors will be available for your model
I feel like used bike prices haven't risen as much as new bike prices so they represent even better value in the current market. I can't see me going new again, even frame prices now feel ridiculous.
I think that we all focus on these mega expensive +£10k bikes but in reality how many are sold compaired to mid and low range bikes? Also how much has Bike to Work distorted this high end market?
if you don’t want the latest model then there are always bargains out there. It’s in no way cheap but I got a carbon fibre Trek Top Fuel 9.7 (‘22/‘23 model) with a smattering of XT for £2.7k. I could have spent x3 on a new Top Fuel but past the point I bought at it’s definitely law of diminishing returns.
Isn’t there a limit on bike to work allowances now?
Isn’t there a limit on bike to work allowances now?
Only if one is set by the employer.
Going to have to check this shop our next time I’m in Harrogate. Love window shopping there… always interesting to see the top end of everything on show. Such a green and pleasant town. Never actually take anything home though.
this on was may fave. i fear it wouldnt like 20 stone of me onboard.
https://www.specializedconceptstore.co.uk/product/306441/2023-s-works-crux/
but this one was more suitable and on my list.
https://www.specializedconceptstore.co.uk/product/38101/2022-chisel-comp/
Isn't this all a bit obvious?
I know we like automotive equivalents on here, so what the OP has done is just akin to wandering into a BMW main stealership, perusing the newest M5 or whatever, plus options and suddenly discovered that posh products sold in a bricks and mortar setting, in a well heeled part of the world, have a stupid asking price... And?
I don't even think Spesh Concept stores are the peak of luxury bicycle retail: The boss and I popped into Henley for a cheeky Wetherspoons lunch and a saunter around the Posho's various knick-knack shops a couple of weeks ago.
She sent me off to look in the bike shop there,I wander up and there's a Visma world tour replica Cervelo in the window, nothing else has any indication of price on it (if you have to ask, you can't afford it), it looks awfully tidy for a 'bike shop' on a weekend, I can't see your standard rack of random spares and innertubes and the staff seem to have have matching polo shirts. This is a showroom not a bike shop, I turn around to go and look at whatever crap my missus is interested in.
You can buy bikes lots of places, expensive shops are an option but they're really only for "high net-worth" individuals and idiots.
Specialized isn’t a BMW. It’s a Ford.
Expensive shops you say?
https://www.pushcartel.co.uk/bespoke
I’ve been in some poncy bike shops, the Harrogate shop isn’t like them, they are nice, unpretentious lads & lasses who love bikes, know their stuff, ride regularly and are a good laugh on the group rides (road and off road) they put on. It’s really just a normal bike shop, that has some expensive bikes in it. I’m told their coffee is nice too.
Why do people only ever mention Specialized when it comes to £10,000+ bikes. Is it because they are in the concept stores and the average joe can see them? Plenty of other makers produce bikes that exceed that. Even top end Trek and Cannondale XC bikes are £10,000 and more often top end race bikes are a lot more.
Specialized isn’t a BMW. It’s a Ford.
That seems harsh. I’ve never owned a spec’ but I’d find it hard to think of a type of bike where they don’t make something pretty world class.
A Ford, earlier.
Perhaps VW then. The ‘People’s car’ that’s actually quite premium
I bought a Giant trance X 29 1 (2022 model -panther green) for £1600 in September last year... I also got a full XTR groupset (£180 chainset, £160 rear mech, £50 shifter, £500 brakes, £250 cassette, a new helmet and some clothing) all under a £3k cycle to work scheme so will cost my wallet about £2k... I bagged a Nukeproof horizon bar and stem, brendog vaults and deathgrips for just over £100 in the wiggle melt down sale.... And to finish it off a set of ex display DT Swiss XM1700 wheels with the rear having an upgraded 240 hub for £300 off eBay.
It doesn't have to be stupidly expensive if you don't want it to be! Just be prepared to look for the bargains
Ignore the high end. The chisel comp mentioned above is £2300. 5 years ago the same bike, with a slightly more expensive spec* was £1300 retail.
* Not necessarily better, but OE the parts would have cost more I believe.
I do think Specialized are one of the worst for taking the piss on pricing. I was talking to LBS manager at Christmas. They had recently dropped Specialized because they were getting hard to sell. The Specialized sales rep couldn't explain what the extra money was going into compared to brand xyz. I suspect there is an element of bias there. But having recently bought a Cannondale online and been very disappointed with it, I do think some brands are charging a lot extra because they think they can.
Specialized isn’t a BMW. It’s a Ford.
Specialized is absolutely BMW. Both make very expensive models, but also budget stuff for people who see the brand as adding some tangible value. It amazes me that the German manufacturers are still seen as premium despite selling mostly products for the masses. The 3 Series has outsold the Mondeo for ages now. Both are slowly chipping away at spec and quality whilst pushing prices further upwards.
Specialized are known for pricing their S-Works bikes much higher than the sum of the frame, suspension and all the components. As numerous people with lots of time on their hands have proven repeatedly.
Trek are even more expensive than Specialized but nobody ever seems to hate on them.
If these bikes are such poor value then why are they not being undercut and outsold? The bike market is highly competitive, certainly far more competitive than either the car or motorbike markets. The new Epic 8 will also sell like hotcakes, as will the new Stumpjumper or Enduro whenever they decide to release those. Clearly there are no shortage of willing buyers, just not many of them to be found on STW...
The Specialized sales rep couldn’t explain what the extra money was going into compared to brand xyz. I suspect there is an element of bias there. But having recently bought a Cannondale online and been very disappointed with it, I do think some brands are charging a lot extra because they think they can.
I agree about specialized being pricey on full retail. However I don’t see them making huge profits
Spec’ uk made 3.7 million on 94 million in sales. Which doesn’t leave huge room for lowering retail prices
Does anyone know if the parent company in the us is more profitable
I have owned a few Specialized over the years both MTB and Road I'll be the first to admit they are not value for money compared to some other manufacturers but I like how they ride and fit and I am very tempted for one of the new Epics but it would be the base model if I do go for one.
Talking of Harrogate, a couple of years ago I got talking to someone who knows the guys at Prologue and he said that the *average* spend on a new bike and accessories was approaching £20,000.
Conversely, I just bought two brand new Schwinn ladies bikes (RRP of £499) for £100 each. This afternoon's job is unboxing them and putting them together.
Talking of Harrogate, a couple of years ago I got talking to someone who knows the guys at Prologue and he said that the *average* spend on a new bike and accessories was approaching £20,000
Suspect there’s a bit of Chinese whispers at play there.
But not a lot. And there’s a lot of very quick guys that shop there too.
Spec’ uk made 3.7 million on 94 million in sales. Which doesn’t leave huge room for lowering retail prices
I'm sure they do their very best to make as little profit here as possible. They'll be buying those from a more tax friendly location where the real profits are held I would expect.
You can get a top end Ribble with Dura Ace Di2 for a mere £8000 now they've knocked £2000 off the RRP.
I'm fine with Specialized charging at the top end of top bike prices. The SL8 and the new Epic both have strong cases for being the very best at what they're designed to do.
Ribble blows my mind though. Every time I see one I can't help but think back to the mid 00s when everyone in my uni club rode their blue alu winter frames because they were £150.
A mate has just bought a Santa Cruz High tower for around £4 1/2 K , wireless shifting , carbon frame etc etc . £3K off RRP 👍
I once made the mistake of walking into that Push Cartel place by mistake. The moment I saw the words 'apparel' and 'bespoke' I turned around. The kind of ****y bollocks that represents everything that has gone wrong with cycling in the last few years.
The moment I saw the words ‘apparel’ and ‘bespoke’ I turned around
I think the rot really set in when "collections" became "carefully curated".
While I am sure you could spend mega bucks in Push Cartel, when I looked at them for a bike with Ultrega / force group sets, there was very little difference in price between what they could offer and the big brands, including Canyon.
It must be nice to buy a bespoke bike, but supporting a LBS, is never a bad thing.
The moment I saw the words ‘apparel’ and ‘bespoke’ I turned around
I think the rot really set in when “collections” became “carefully curated”
'Colourways'
he said that the *average* spend on a new bike and accessories was approaching £20,000.
That can't possibly be right can it? I can believe some people might be spending that sort of money but not that there are enough spending more for that to be the average
Specialized isn’t a BMW. It’s a Ford.
I'd have thought Boardman was more like Ford, you know "motoring for the masses" purchased from less upscale premises, stuck together for a target price, less aspirational value for people who care about such things.
Sorry, I'm not really a "Car Guy" I've spent about as much time I'm bimmer dealerships as I have in concept stores and enjoyed both about the same amount, seemed like a reasonable comparison.
Feel free to recalibrate our expectations so we know which cars/bikes to look down our noses at 😉
All these Ford references, Ford have made some pretty outstanding cars in the past - I'd argue that their catalogue of outstanding cars beats BMW - my mate has had quite a few BMWs which I thought were pretty poor.