[Closed] "Save our Cyclists" in a Murdoch paper!? Whatever next?

How about saving your scorn & supporting the campaign instead?..

Sounds a good scheme.

I've just tweeted and G+'d that. From talking to various drivers the human side of accidents tends to be lost on them whilst they are in their cars. Maybe this might make a couple of them think a little more about the potential consequences of their actions.

Heard about it on R4 on the way to work, it's good to see action being taken.

My support has been pledged at the Times website.

The media is all powerful so let's hope some good comes of it.

lol at Lebowski. No scorn mentioned, just suprise... wrong side of the bed this morning? 🙂

to be fair on the op considering some of their columnists (clarkson, Matthew parris, etc) and the majority of posters on any cycling article on their website I'd say this was a radical and welcome change from their usual tone

Being cynical, perhaps they have noticed the reaction clarksonesque anti-cycling stories get on the internet, it seems to generate massive reaction and hit rate for any site that publishes.
Considering that this probably means that the cycling crowd are internet media savvy and stories spread quickly through forums and contacts, getting them onside for a pay-per-view news site could be considered worth trying.

It is after all not just the mouthpeice of Clarkson, but also Matthew Parris.

The Sunday Times in particular but also The Times has always been pretty good for reporting cycle sport (Tour de France, track stuff etc) and Sunday Times runs regular "lifestyle" pieces in it's supplements which are generally very positive about cycling.

Nice to see them going the extra mile though.

I can see the inclusion of this stat

since 2001, 576 British soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq; 1,275 cyclists died on British streets.

Good thing to see in a Tory-supporting daily national paper. I'm very surpised I have to say!

crazy-legs - Member
The Sunday Times in particular but also The Times has always been pretty good for reporting cycle sport (Tour de France, track stuff etc) and Sunday Times runs regular "lifestyle" pieces in it's supplements which are generally very positive about cycling.

Nice to see them going the extra mile though.

^^This^^

In addition, look at the amount of money Sky have been pumping in to British Cycling. Not just with Team Sky, but on the track front as well.

Why has the "Tory-supporting" element got anything to do with supporting the campaign? I dont get how their political allegiances are an issue.

If it saves just one life and the effect it has on their families, then we should all be thankful.

I have thought for a long time that the only way the general population would wake up to cycling casualties on the road would be if a high profile person was killed or injured on their bike. Tragically, this seems to be true. Hopefully, this is the small rock that starts the avalanche which will result in a major change to road sharing.

In November, Times journalist Mary Bowers was just yards from arriving at work on her bike when she was hit by a lorry. Mary, 27, is still not conscious and is making a slow recovery in hospital.

However nothing but good can come of this

Why has the "Tory-supporting" element got anything to do with supporting the campaign?

why is point 3 covered up by an advert?

Well, I've signed up and written to my MP asking him to sign up too.

I encourage you all to do the same, finally a media big-hitter on our side 🙂

Actually, couldn't we have a link to the sign-up as a sticky thread?

with crazy-legs and cfh here - The Times has always seemed pretty pro cycling, certainly as far as recreation nd sport go.

Fair play to them! As has already been pointed out, Sky have already done a lot at grass roots level, rather than just cynically slap their logo on a successful team. Apparently it was James Murdochs baby. I read somewhere he's a keen cyclist himself

Can we expect compassion and common sense to break out in the rest of the Murdoch press?

There's a big difference between supporting cycling as a sport or even recreation and supporting cyclists on the street when they're 'getting in the way' - the same way that I'm sure a lot of the people who are agressive and rude with cyclists while in their cars were cheering on Chris Hoy et al at the last Olympics.

The cynical side of me says that the Sun, etc have always been very good at making sure they're on the winning side - eg changing political allegiances to ensure that 'their side' wins the election (though obviously there'll always be debate about whether that's chicken or egg...) and maybe they're just seeing that cycling's getting to the point of critical mass where enough people are using their bikes to commute that it's no longer a minority activity and it's likely to become even less so.

Either way, I'll not be looking a gift horse in the mouth.

[url=

article on it[/url]

Whatever the motivation of the campaign, the more we do to support it, the more momentum it'll receive and the better the message will get out there. I've signed up to "support" the campaign (whatever that means), and sent my MP (the PM) an email briefly outlining my concerns about road safety for cyclists & what I'd like to see done about it. Took 5 mins. Come on people! 🙂

I want to see it in The Sun... then I think it'll have real impact though it'll be interesting to see what this leads to.

Trending on twitter (if that means anything) and someone posted this pic... (apparently cyclist unhurt!)

[img] [/img]

https://twitter.com/#!/biggsy321/status/164988745249062912

Mods - any chance of having a direct link to the campaign and petition as a sticky? STW is such a popular forum, and it would be good to see it getting behind this campaign to try and make cycling safer.

IMHO, the politics of the paper concerned don't matter. It's finally put across the true impact of cycling casualties as a 'human' affair, and from that it will hopefully allow non-cyclists to have a bit more empathy.

Oh, and crazy-legs / CFH +1

All good stuff!

Point no1

1. Trucks entering a city centre should be required by law to fit censors, audible truck-turning alarms, extra mirrors and safety bars to stop cyclists being thrown under the wheels.

sounds like it should come after many of the others. Surely there needs to be some research done to find out the cheapest and most effective ways of stopping cycling accidents before insisting on things like this. Perhaps Murdoch owns a truck fit-out business </cynic>

1. Trucks entering a city centre should be required by law to fit censors,

I think a sensor would be more effective than someone with a clip-board, but otherwise, yes.

🙂

I largely approve and applaud this campaign, but the manifesto needs one extra point: it should demand that drivers who kill or maim on the road pay for their crimes. Sentencing in most cases is derisory and insulting to those whose lives have been destroyed by carelessness behind the wheel. The biggest problem for cyclists in the UK is that drivers just don't give a **** about the possible effects of their actions - and why should they when you can kill someone, and it can be shown to be your fault, and you can still get off with community service and a temporary ban?

While I agree with you mintimperial, the pragmatist in me says that that would guarantee that the campaign would fail. Too many people still view it as the cyclist's fault in a lot of accidents and as such it'd be like trying to get turkeys to vote for Xmas.

I think that changing the mindset first is the key thing. After that, I reckon that people might start questioning the lenient sentences without a campaign being necessary.

I approve, I think the scare stories are necessary but may have a detrimental effect on encouraging people to cycle. However once the infrastructure is improved, we should reach "Critical Mass" of cyclists and things can only get better. One thing I am slightly annoyed by is the London-centric attitude of most tweets/posts about this (not necessarily on here). London cycling is dangerous because a higher percentage of people are forced to do it because transport costs are higher. As I'm sure most will agree, there are cities in the UK where cycling infrastructure is worse than London, this also needs focus.

Make the Times link a sticky please!

I think that changing the mindset first is the key thing. After that, I reckon that people might start questioning the lenient sentences without a campaign being necessary.

Yeah. I hope you're right. 🙁

I'm pleasantly surprised - this is the sort of thing which could result in more positive change than years of campaigning by the CTC (not that I think the CTC don't do a good job). Chapeau!

Posted on FB - I suggest those of you who use that or other social media do the same.

I signed up for it.

Wonder what sustrans think of clause 4?

Well I'm sure they'd love it - it's what they've been campaigning for, isn't it?

Only good can come of it - IMHO the politics of the paper concerned are of note due to the fact we're being run by a Tory govenernment. If they think there's votes in the campaign, they'll support it (or elements).
As mentioned above, NewsCorp papers like to be on the "winning" side, so the fact that the Times is behind this can only be a good sign.

why is point 3 covered up by an advert?

It's not, I checked the source and it's just partially missing.

On the trucks - there is a chunk of research that shows cyclists getting squished in the blindspot down the side. Mirrors can be fitted to cover this easily and cheaply

I for one would like to see proper enforcement of Advanced Stop Lines. They are cheap & easy to implement and make life so much safer for the cyclist.

Well, they would be safer if they weren't always full up with a car, or a bus, taxi, van, lorry, bus, motorbike, etc

Have also now emailed my MP. Not going to copy what I wrote, as to get full attention you need to use your own words - I made mine personal enough to make it clear I wasn't just copying and pasting some form letter.

I note in the RoadCC article it mentions that other newspapers have started similar campaigns. However with all due respect to the Independent, it's circulation is dwarfed by that of the Times. This is definitely far more mainstream now.

I reckon they should extend it to all of the Murdoch empire for maximum effect

However once the infrastructure is improved, we should reach "Critical Mass" of cyclists and things can only get better.

London is very close to being "critical mass" already actually. I think popular view is approx 5% of all journeys by bike and in London it's somewhere round about 3% at the moment and even with that, summer rush hours have huge packs of cyclists at the front of junctions. In those conditions, cycling is safer than ever as the car driver simply HAS to wait, you can't bully your way through that!

What we need to be careful of though is demanding "better infrastructure" only for the council to go and paint a green line somewhere random and have done with it.

I really hope that this can be the start of something good rather than just petering out with barely a murmur as previous campaigns have done. I hope that the relatively sensible way that The Times have gone about it should also do away with a high proportion of the "they all jump red lights, they should pay road tax" bollocks that these kind of articles often degenerate into.

[url= http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/british-cycling-urges-government-to-improve-road-safety-for-cyclists/012555 ]THIS[/url] came out from British Cycling today as well, related to the Times story. Now that the Olympics is really close and interest is really focused on it, now is the time more than ever to join British Cycling, CTC, London Cycling Campaign or whatever and really start to push for better provision and recognition for all cyclists.

What we need to be careful of though is demanding "better infrastructure" only for the council to go and paint a green line somewhere random and have done with it.

Which was something which worried me about this - until I read what they have and found it's actually been very carefully written, seemingly by somebody who understands the issues (I wonder if they actually got some help from the CTC?)

Written to my MP too, for what it's worth. I said that I'm supporting The Times' campaign as a motorist, because I fully expect him to disregard people going on about two-wheeled self-propelled transport as the wibblings of deranged lunatics.

As Clubber, I'd like to see this in the Sun.

It's not usually The Times I see tucked down the front of the dash in the vehicles I have trouble with....

Back in November, TRL (transport research laboratory) published a pretty good review of the available information and attempted some conclusions about what could be done to reduce accidents.

There was a pretty intersting finding on segregated cycle lanes not always being a good option, as they created additional conflict at the start/ finish.

The summary was....:

Overall, it proved problematic to draw definitive conclusions from the literature. Taken as a whole, the most significant infrastructure-related risk factors for cyclists in single vehicle incidents on highways appear to be; slippery road (due to weather), and poor or defective road surface. For multi-vehicle collisions the infrastructure risk factors appear to be; posted speed limits, and encounters with other road users at junctions.

report is on http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/infrastructure-and-cyclist-safety

As Clubber, I'd like to see this in the Sun.

I agree - at least this is a start though, and it's far more likely to get a mention in the Sun than a campaign originating in the Guardian.

Written to my MP too, for what it's worth. I said that I'm supporting The Times' campaign as a motorist, because I fully expect him to disregard people going on about two-wheeled self-propelled transport as the wibblings of deranged lunatics.

Possibly worth mentioning that in my e-mail to my MP I mentioned my interest in road safety for cyclists and pedestrians (something I have done a small amount towards locally), and asked her to agree with me that this is an important issue - she can hardly say that she disagrees!

I for one would like to see proper enforcement of Advanced Stop Lines. They are cheap & easy to implement and make life so much safer for the cyclist.

Except when they encourage people to ride down the inside of HGVs at junctions, of course.

Dpends how far back from the junction the ASL line is? Need's to be far enough back thatt he truck isn't turning when it imediately sets off.

Highway Agency is just England, right?

Dpends how far back from the junction the ASL line is? Need's to be far enough back thatt he truck isn't turning when it imediately sets off.

Which brings us right back to the whole "better infrastructure" in general. ASL's need to be 20m in front of traffic, not 2m. They need to be treated like hatched yellows for infringement and ideally have phased lights to let cyclists go 5 seconds before the F1 starting grid of taxis and buses behind them. The lanes leading into them need to be wider or segregated by a kerb to stop traffic turning across them and drivers and cyclists need to be better educated as to how to deal with each other.

Here's hoping this campaign at least starts the ball rolling on dealing with it.

Like the ideas raised by crazy-legs for ASZ/ASLs, the difficulty with the current law surrounding ASZs is a bit fuzzy, and the get-out for motorists could be, "I stopped halfway into the zone as the light turned red".

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/29/cycling-advance-stop-line ]Guardian Blog post[/url]

I pass a few on my commute and 75% of the time a motor vehicle has encroached...

Highway Agency is just England, right?

Yup

Someone has come up with the Daily Wail/tabloid take on this:

[img] [/img]

I think a sensor would be more effective than someone with a clip-board, but otherwise, yes.

Noticed Keltbray tipper has a audible warning when they re turning left

"warning this vehicle is turning"

Noticed Keltbray tipper has a audible warning when they re turning left

"warning this vehicle is turning"

Noticed Keltbray tipper has a audible warning when they re turning left
"warning this vehicle is turning"

That's fine if the truck is in front of you, not so good if you're ahead and the truck overtakes before turning.

Step in the right direction though.

crazy-legs - Member

summer rush hours have huge packs of cyclists at the front of junctions. In those conditions, cycling is safer than ever as the car driver simply HAS to wait, you can't bully your way through that![/qoute]

unless you're in Brazil...

[url=

Mass Brazil car craziness vid[/url]

 

"Trucks entering a city centre should be required by law to fit censors"

Does that mean some crusty old f@rt telling us what we can watch at the cinema has to sit in the cab shouting out of the open window through a loud hailer? Or do they mean sensors?

I guess as a sideline to this the BBC this morning were ready with a Dad who'd lost his daughter and a representitive from the CTC on the couch, didn't see the whole thing, but they invited comments as usual, Im sure that would have just degenerated into the usual clarksonesque comments about not being on the road etc...

Anyone looking at today's Times coverage of their campaign?

The [url= http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3307814.ece ]story from the lorry driver[/url] was quite moving.

But how many pledged support for registration for all bikes?
Point 4 on their "Road Ahead" infographic here:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3307439.ece
I don't remember their manifesto mentioning that!

road.cc have good meta coverage.
http://road.cc/content/news/52141-day-2-times-cities-fit-cycling-campaign-focuses-lorries

just amazing how much press this has got... shows the power of big media - compared to all the campaigning the CTC do which hardly registers at a national level in the mass market