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Christ almighty it’s not difficult they are motorcycles, they are not ebikes. Sauron sell them as motorcycles. Just as I can’t use my car, van or motorcycles on swinley trails, on pavements or through pedestrian areas they can’t be used either and thats got f all to do with “cheating”
You can ride them wherever you like if you don't get caught... really who gives a f=== if its legal or not??? It's legal to picnic on the corner of Red 25... you can set out a blanket and get the kids lying on the landing...
Just because it's legal doesn't make it any less stupid.
The government has made it abundantly clear the law only extends as far as being held to account.
WTF are you dribbling on about?
I'm just asking why you want to enforce this specific law but not others.
Why aren't you out campaigning for stiffer sentences for kids riding on the pavement for example?
(and I'm guessing because you think that law is stupid or something along those lines)
In the same way it's illegal in the UK to have a blind spot camera, they have to be wired so they only come on when you select reverse. I think that is stupid as I'd rather not kill someone who chooses to sit inside by blind spot. 90% of the time this is roady's (probably because of where I drive to/from)... however as another STWer said a few weeks ago they like me would rather break the law than legally kill someone.
UK Laws are merely acts that are passed by a minimal number of MP's bothering to turn up the vast majority of whom haven't even bothered to read the act they vote on.. that then pass through the Lords and finally get Assent, mostly passed by people who vote as they are told, or trade votes or just don't bother to vote.
Back the the tougher sentencing for kids riding on the pavement... this was easily passed in the commons... about 10?? MP's bothered to turn up that day... and it was the Lords stopped it and giving the right for a PSCO to fine a kid on the spot for riding on the pavement.
Jamesoz
He’s taken rule one and pissed all over it.
That's a much better reason IMHO...
really who gives a f=== if its legal or not???
I suspect that family they buzzed on the cattle grid did.
I think the guys at the mtb trails they were ripping apart do.
I suspect police as he wheelies wrong way down a one way onto the pavement do.
I think most folk with half a sense of justice and Rule No.1 object.
By your approach, I could come steal your bike an be wished well for getting away with it....?
Did you get overtaken by an ebike today? Bless. Anyway the twunt in the video on his electric motorbike, yes MOTORBIKE, has now sold it and will be ripping round swinley on a levo instead.
I’m just asking why you want to enforce this specific law but not others.
Because riding motorcycles where they are not allowed to be, where the environment has not been designed for the use of motorcycles and where there are vulnerable people about who may not expect somebody on a silent high speed motorbike to be, i.e cyclists, walkers, kids etc, creates a real risk of harm to those people. Furthermore those riding the motorcycles are unlikely to have a valid licence to ride the bike which implies a possible lack of training and knowledge of risks and are also unlikely to be legally insured so any victims of their stupidity may be substantially out of pocket as well. It’s really not that difficult a concept and has nothing to do with your garbled ranting about kids riding bikes on pavements and the uk legislative process.
Land rovers also come with 360 degree cameras so I suspect your mistaken about that slightly bizarre aspect of your post as well.
I’m just asking why you want to enforce this specific law but not others.
Oh right you are dribbling on with a classic "yeah but". I hadn't mentioned blind spot camras or pavement cycling because it's a thread about electric motorbikes. Simple really if you stopped to think.
I suspect that family they buzzed on the cattle grid did.
I think the guys at the mtb trails they were ripping apart do.
I suspect police as he wheelies wrong way down a one way onto the pavement do.
I think most folk with half a sense of justice and Rule No.1 object.
How does any of that change if its legal or not ? Any and all of those can be done (and are) on a normal bike (not even ebike). Rule #1 applies to everyone not just those with these electric motorbikes.
Did you get overtaken by an ebike today? Bless. Anyway the twunt in the video on his electric motorbike, yes MOTORBIKE, has now sold it and will be ripping round swinley on a levo instead.
Exactly the point (the last bit) ... what difference does it make if there is a dick on a electric motorbike or an ebike or a "normal bike" ..
On your first point, I'm a bit tired of being rammed by ebikes ridden by twunts for not moving out of the way fast enough on designated push-ups where they shouldn't be cycling but it's not illegal.
Because riding motorcycles where they are not allowed to be, where the environment has not been designed for the use of motorcycles and where there are vulnerable people about who may not expect somebody on a silent high speed motorbike to be, i.e cyclists, walkers, kids etc, creates a real risk of harm to those people. Furthermore those riding the motorcycles are unlikely to have a valid licence to ride the bike which implies a possible lack of training and knowledge of risks and are also unlikely to be legally insured so any victims of their stupidity may be substantially out of pocket as well. It’s really not that difficult a concept and has nothing to do with your garbled ranting about kids riding bikes on pavements and the uk legislative process.
Which part of that doesn't apply to non motorbike/ebike users?
Land rovers also come with 360 degree cameras so I suspect your mistaken about that slightly bizarre aspect of your post as well.
INCONTROL TOUCH PRO: PARKING AID SYSTEM
Your Range Rover Sport incorporates a parking aid system that operates in conjunction with the vehicle’s cameras, and gives a 360 degree, detailed view of the vehicle’s surrounding area and any obstacles in the vehicle’s pathway, when parking. Warnings are sent to the driver in the form of images on the touch screen and audio alerts.
You mean this "parking aid system".
Perhaps read it carefully... the driver is only allowed to see the rear view camera when reversing...
so I suspect your mistaken about that slightly bizarre aspect of your post as well.
It's not my fault its bizarre ... on some day in Parliament a bunch of dishonest MP's who could actually be arsed to turn up that day or turned up because they were bribed to voted through a bill.
It is legal to fit television equipment in a motor vehicle. However, if the screen of the television can be seen by the driver then it is only lawful to display information about the state of the vehicle, or about the location of the vehicle and the road which it is on.
Hence you can have a display, map etc. but NOT a rear view camera unless reverse is selected or the driver cannot see the screen (which makes it pointless).
Again, don't blame me ... the MP's that voted for this probably had not even read the act..I'm not an MP so hardly my fault if its a shit law and that MP's barely bother to turn up for work, let alone read what they vote for.
Try finding a rear view camera that works all the time or ask to get one professionally fitted.
If your car/van has a factory reversing camera look in the settings where you can switch it to be on full time (doesn't exist because its illegal) ...
It’s really not that difficult a concept and has nothing to do with your garbled ranting about kids riding bikes on pavements and the uk legislative process.
Had it not been for the Lords PSCO's would be out there right now giving on the spot fines to kids riding bikes on pavements... why don't you see if YOUR MP voted, if not ask them why ... if they did ask them why they voted the way the did.
You are ascribing logic to what is legal and illegal. Our current government have made it clear they don't care about what is legal or illegal ONLY accountability.
If the law doesn't apply to the government then why should anyone else care ???
Err, OK.
Err, OK.
Let's just humour him, he might blow a gasket otherwise.
Please tell us some more about rear view cameras??
Massively long posts - check
Spurious, off topic arguments - check
Random, selective quoting - check
Misdirected anger - check
Random bold text - check
It's a full house!
Happy Stevextc thread derailment day everyone!
Let’s just humour him, he might blow a gasket otherwise.
Please tell us some more about rear view cameras??
like I say, try and buy one or get one fitted.
Show me a link where I can legally buy a rear view camera in the UK... or explain why you can't turn the one in a UK legal car/van on when reverse isn't selected without illegal hacks.
why else would the landrover have 360 degree cameras that can only be used for park assist ?
However its not like its the only example ..Do you have pedal reflectors? Why is it illegal to have them on the shoes not the pedals?
The point is why would anyone follow the law because its the law when the government have made it clear they have no respect for the law or wish to follow it.
The only thing that matters is being caught or accountable.
As I mentioned what exactly is the difference between the electric motorbikes and a normal bike or e-bike.
I suspect that family they buzzed on the cattle grid did.
I think the guys at the mtb trails they were ripping apart do.
I suspect police as he wheelies wrong way down a one way onto the pavement do.
Which one of those can't be done on a normal bike?
Furthermore those riding the motorcycles are unlikely to have a valid licence to ride the bike which implies a possible lack of training and knowledge of risks and are also unlikely to be legally insured so any victims of their stupidity may be substantially out of pocket as well.
How many of the other riders at Swinley have a valid license to ride, training and knowledge from that or insurance?
He's not on a road he's on private land (Crown Estates) so not a police matter with regards to riding it (being a dick is another matter but as I said, what's the difference between a normal bike ??)
So far as I can see him riding a Sauron thingy is no different to me riding off piste at Swinley ... or any of the "illegal on the roads balance things" they rent out... (whatever they are called)
Personally I'd prefer him not to be there at all as he's a dick but I can't complain about the legality or not as I've been known to sneak in a cheeky off piste. (As have most of us) .. so its' bloody hypocritical to say he can't because its illegal (when its really down to Crown Estate) if you ever sneaked in a bit of cheeky off piste.
Same thing about cheating ... unless you cycle there then you're also "cheating"... I use uplifts all the time so how can I moan at someone "cheating".
Can someone please come up with a working killfile?
Can you not get away with the dual rear view cameras that are fitted to most motohomes.
Show me a link where I can legally buy a rear view camera in the UK…
Why would I want to?
The only thing that matters is being caught or accountable.
Do you see this as a universal truth or do you have a list of things that are only bad if you are caught?
Massively long posts – check
Spurious, off topic arguments – check
Random, selective quoting – checkIt’s a full house!
Happy Stevextc thread derailment day everyone!
So the purpose of the post is what ? Ah, I see we can break the law because we ride bikes but he can't because he rides something else?
I'm simply trying to balance this out... all I see are "reasons" he shouldn't that we should feel free to ignore... I personally don't have insurance or special training so how is that relevant?
I like most regulars (if they are honest) sneak in off piste... again what's the difference?
Misdirected anger – check
Where's misdirected anger ? I'm just saying there are a bunch of hypocrites on this thread.
People who will happily break the law when convenient to them (like riding home with no pedal reflectors) or riding baby maker which is NOT sanctioned ... or previously camel
Just because this bloke (who is a dick) chooses a different machine it seems a whole load of reasons he shouldn't be allowed but we should.
He’s not on a road he’s on private land (Crown Estates) so not a police matter with regards to riding it (being a dick is another matter but as I said, what’s the difference between a normal bike ??)
Sorry Steve, have you watched the videos? He's going full throttle through the pedestrianised high street in Camberley and on the road, and on byways, and on bridleways, and across parks.
I’m just saying there are a bunch of hypocrites on this thread.
Maybe your ire is misdirected ... Hypocrisy doesn't **** up the trails, for one thing.
Why would I want to?
Obviously you wouldn't as you can't .. but best not to try (or pretend you didn't google and couldn't find it was legal eh)
Do you see this as a universal truth or do you have a list of things that are only bad if you are caught?
I didn't make any statement about good or bad... simply what matters.
The democratically elected government of England has made it clear that laws are only applicable in so far as they are accountable and legality has nothing to do with if they do something or not.
Sorry Steve, have you watched the videos? He’s going full throttle through the pedestrianised high street in Camberley and on the road, and on byways, and on bridleways, and across parks.
I saw part of it weeks ago... total knob-end. I'm just saying his choice of machine is irrelevant to him being a dick... apparently he's sold it and got a Levo... do you really think he'll behave any differently?
Maybe SteveXTC is his mum and is sticking up for the chap?
I’m just saying his choice of machine is irrelevant to him being a dick… apparently he’s sold it and got a Levo… do you really think he’ll behave any differently?
Maybe not. But he won't be doing 45mph.
Can you not get away with the dual rear view cameras that are fitted to most motohomes.
You can "get away" with anything doesn't have white LED's on... its 30 secs to wire to a ignition power source rather than brake light... but it doesn't make it legal. Check the motorhome forums ... 😉
The loophole for the screen is only for reversing or parking assist... or you can direct it so only the passenger can see behind. Otherwise its classed as "in car TV" even though the "purpose" is to see people and vehicles in a blind spot. In other words its a daft unintended consequence of a yet another bad law ... voted on by the handful of MP's that bothered to turn up... non of which I'd expect considered people might want to see behind the vehicle when not reversing or simply hadn't read the bill.
Hence why I don't feel "bad" rewiring it.
Or in AA's question
AA
Do you see this as a universal truth or do you have a list of things that are only bad if you are caught?
If you want to ask about good and bad... my sole purpose is to see in the blind spot and avoid accidents and/or killing someone. I don't feel "bad" that its illegal because how would I get caught and I don't care what the law says because it doesn't override morality.
I'd feel much worse if I braked hard and a cyclist doing 40 mph down a hill 2' behind me hit the van and I killed them simply because I didn't want to break the law.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/109/made
Doesn't this cover your camera query? Old though...
Our dual system was fitted by the dealer before collection so I assume its legal. I've never been told by the Ford dealer on service or MOT that it illegal Been in 6 years and works a treat. The screen is a big rear view mirror one.
My mate has one in his. Switches on with reverse, or there's a button on the side to turn on if driving.
I’m simply trying to balance this out…
You’re doing a ****ing atrocious job of it, some of the most painful reading I’ve seen here in years
Looking forward to the list of illegal things that are/aren’t ok to do though
I'm not quite sure what's going on in this thread now as it's taken a turn for the absolutely ****ing bonkers.
Only trying to help.
Don't even need to touch the buttons. It automatically goes to the rear view (gives a better view than if it was a rear view mirror looking through the rear window, even if we don't have a rear window.) when the engine is switched on and the second camera comes on when reverse is engaged and gives a full tilted down view for reversing.
Only photo I have
[img] 
[/img]
AA
Do you see this as a universal truth or do you have a list of things that are only bad if you are caught?
If you want to ask about good and bad… my sole purpose is to see in the blind spot and avoid accidents and/or killing someone. I don’t feel “bad” that its illegal because how would I get caught and I don’t care what the law says because it doesn’t override morality.
I have no idea what you are talking about, have you been taking mushrooooooms?
I have no idea what you are talking about, have you been taking mushrooooooms?
Its really not that hard.
That's not the problem with this bloke and the electric bike. He won't be any less of a dick on a legal e-bike or a normal bike.
Whether something is legal or not shouldn't bother anyone whilst laws are being voted on by MP's who don't even bother to read or care what they are voting for.
We have a PM with a long history of committing traffic offences (not to mention UK and international law) and never being charged... why should anyone else bother?
We have transport ministers contradicting the police over cycling on the pavement etc. etc.
I personally have no pedal reflectors on ANY bike ... does everyone here or do we decide we don't give a shit and just put lights on and cycle home anyway? Nearly everyone I know that rides Swinley rides off-piste to some extent so again if he's not on a bridleway or footpath he's not committing a traffic offence as he's on private land.
If you spend any time at all seeing how many MP's voted in specific legislation (i.e. bothered to turn up that day)and if you ever then try and find out why your MP voted a specific way when they did bother to turn up you quickly realise they don't even know what they voted for or against. They either voted for what they were told to, voted because they got paid (presumably) or voted because the opposition voted the other way... but most of the time they don't even bother to turn up.
Only trying to help.
Don’t even need to touch the buttons. It automatically goes to the rear view (gives a better view than if it was a rear view mirror looking through the rear window, even if we don’t have a rear window.) when the engine is switched on and the second camera comes on when reverse is engaged and gives a full tilted down view for reversing.
All I knew is from when I bought the van and I wanted a rear towbar and rear camera fitted at the same time. I tried 3 local places who all told me the rear camera was illegal if not linked to the reverse and wouldn't do it but helpfully told me how to bypass it after they fitted it. (In the end still didn't decide on a towbar so just fitted it myself)
I was a bit surprised so I tried to look it up ... nothing I can see says its legal and plenty seems to indicate it's illegal. The only legislation seem to cover it is in-car TV as at the end of the day the screen is classed as a TV regardless of purpose.
The exceptions seem to be if the driver can't see it or stuff classed as parking/reversing aids.
Perhaps Motorhomes are different?
Either way if you aren't caught then why worry... weirdly trying to buy a camera not linked to the reverse proved near impossible but then looking this up you find all sorts of weird things...
Again Motor homes .. The highway code states
"you must be able to see out of every glass panel in your vehicle"
and is backed by section 41D of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (according to google for traffic solicitors/RAC/AA) hence toilet windows etc. in a motorhome must be a material other than glass unless you have some complex system of mirrors to allow you to see clearly out of that window whilst driving.
Again makes no sense to me.. how is a frosted plastic different ??? Weird but in this case its just a case of either having plastic windows or ignore the law and someone would have to actually test if the window was made of glass or something else not being unable to see what's behind you. But again who cares if you don't get caught?
Regarding e-bikes and derivatives... e-scooters were illegal in the UK but so what. Many places hired them out openly. So long as the companies paid tax noone cared.
Regarding the video ... the bloke is a knob... the machine is irrelevant as is its legality on the road when riding off bridleways. He'll be as big a knob on the Levo or one of the newly legalised e-scooters.
Again purely IMHO here but I call deliberately ramming people who are pushing up designated push-ups is breaking rule #1 ...the fact the e-bikes are (presumably) road legal it irrelevant.
Obviously many e-bike owners buy a e-bike purely to ride up designated pushups and their opinion is presumably not having an e-bike is breaking rule #1 .. it's purely a matter of opinion.
Swinley (Crown Estate) get what they want... they refuse to designate bike only trails so they reap the rewards of that.
By your approach, I could come steal your bike an be wished well for getting away with it….?
No, he'd beat you to da pulp with a strategically placed iron bar. IIRC
He won’t be any less of a dick on a legal e-bike or a normal bike.
Indeed, but he's basically on a 45mph capable twist'n'go in the same space as kids/dogs/baby Robbins etc...
All the fat Dad's on E-bikes are going to struggle to do half that, and the eeebs won't help them to either...
I sort of understand your rant, the various wheeled things and their operators trundling about swinley on a given weekend all pose some level of risk to themselves and other Forrest users.
I think the valid counter point (that most of this thread subscribe to) is that booting a Leccy M/C around that environment is a tier of risk well above fat Dad's on eeebs.
You're right of course, laws are inevitably enforced in a "discretionary" way. I would hope police discretion is applied on the basis of potential for risk and harm. Kids cycling on pavements to the park? Not in the same League as buzzing Peds, dog walkers and cyclists in woodland with a Motorbike. So call it hypocrisy if you like, but I do think some application of the law on these dickheads is proportionate and would act in the wider public interest...
PS you only technically need pedal reflectors/rear reflector/lights after dark. My commuter has rear and pedal reflectors just in case plod take an interest in me (they haven't yet). But your reflectorless bike is still road legal during daylight hours.
really who gives a f=== if its legal or not???
Its really not that hard.
That’s not the problem with this bloke and the electric bike. He won’t be any less of a dick on a legal e-bike or a normal bike.
Yes I get that, although I would dispute it as you can be far more of a problem on a heavier and faster motorbike, what I don't get is what this has to do with blind spot cameras or your assertion that laws only matter if you are caught. Is this all laws?
Mind you if you really are stupid enough to write this....
We have a PM with a long history of committing traffic offences (not to mention UK and international law) and never being charged… why should anyone else bother?
There must be something going on with these electric motorbikes, loads have rapidly appeared on the local FB Marketplace in quick succession the last few days! Maybe the message is getting out and people want to get their money back fast before they become worthless.
Show me a link where I can legally buy a rear view camera in the UK… or explain why you can’t turn the one in a UK legal car/van on when reverse isn’t selected without illegal hacks.
Been available for decades with an over-ride switch. Coachbuilders that make custom vans (from campers to armoured cash vans) fit them to pretty much everything they build. Never been illegal and never will be. You can even buy vehicles now that use cameras entirely instead of mirrors. The only legal requirement is that if one is used instead of an internal rear view mirror it mush switch on when reverse is selected, side mirrors must stay on when the vehicle is running.
The only legislation seem to cover it is in-car TV as at the end of the day the screen is classed as a TV regardless of purpose.
Incorrect, otherwise every single SatNav, radio display and Infotainment screen would be illegal. It's only illegal to have a TV/DVD player screen visible to the driver while the vehicle is in motion. I believe Land Rover/Jaguar have a clever tech that means the passengers can watch tv while the same screen in the dash won't show it to the driver, instead they see a SatNav/readout display instead.
@stevextc These "designated push up tracks", are they specifically marked as no cycling? What if an XC hero rides up one on a normal bike, is that OK? Given my personal experiences with push up tracks and non-eebs and eebs I think it's quite likely that you are actively blocking the eebers from riding up the tracks, prompting them to barge past which makes you just as guilty of breaking Rule 1 as them.
TJ, is that you?
These “designated push up tracks”, are they specifically marked as no cycling? What if an XC hero rides up one on a normal bike, is that OK? Given my personal experiences with push up tracks and non-eebs and eebs I think it’s quite likely that you are actively blocking the eebers from riding up the tracks, prompting them to barge past which makes you just as guilty of breaking Rule 1 as them.
What does specifically marked No cycling mean? Does it need to be these exact words... does “push up only” mean it’s OK because it doesn’t say explicitly no cycling?
I’m quite happy to be a dick if someone wants to Interpret “push up only” to mean they have right of way riding and can deliberately ram me or the kid because it doesn’t specifically say “no cycling”.
The XC hero is the same ... I don’t mind whatsoever if they cycle up (indeed the kid often does) but if they want to interpret “push up only” as cycling has right of way then it the same.
I tell the kid it’s ok to try and cycle up but that if he gets behind someone he should stop
Christ its like the "I have never been tought anything in my life, all mathematics in intuitive and I have an amazing IQ" thread all over again.
Discretion being the better part of valour...
Oh Steve drop it now. Even I know when it's best to tuck tail and run 😆
I have an amazing IQ” thread all over again.
Thanks for that Josh. Though in my defence I was experiencing a real dark bout of depression and start thinking very dark suicidal though processes, which I get when things start to look bleak, and i start to think my accomplishments in life have led to nothing. It's partly a side effect to being autistic.
But thanks for making such a comparison 😆
These “designated push up tracks”,
Now have my keyboard....
The clue is in the name "Downhill Bike park"
As far as I remember rogate for example has signs from "push-up" to "push-up only" and if I am remembering correctly one that says "push-up no cycling"
Traditionally noone has ever minded if anyone want to ride up so long as they don't deliberately ram other people.. and those pushing have priority and "riding" is a bit cheeky but noone minds.
Windhill on the other hand has a bridleway on one side, traditionally lots of people ride... the other side is single track pushup ... and pushing has priority.
More recently I rode my mates Kenevo up the pushup when it was quiet but I'd never expect people to jump off the pushup into bushes just to let me pass or give them a kick on the way past to teach them a lesson for not moving out of the way fast enough.
As I say, its opinion .. those who bought eBikes with the sole intention of cycling up push-ups seem to assume its a natural right and the bike park owners would put "strictly no cycling" if they didn't mean ebike owners have priority on push-ups.
In my opinion... I don't care if its a sur ron or ebike that deliberately rams me or the kid to teach us a lesson...
Its up to the bike park owners if they allow either or both.. if they want to lose their traditional customers or not or provide e-bike specific cycle ups or allow sur rons on the same.
Oh Steve drop it now. Even I know when it’s best to tuck tail and run
I am entitled to my opinion same as you.
You can be an ebike apologist all you like
the other side is single track pushup … and pushing has priority.
Oh my god, sounds like my idea of hell TBH.
those who bought eBikes with the sole intention of cycling up push-ups
Nobody in the history of eBikes has done this.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Traditionally noone has ever minded if anyone want to ride up so long as they don’t deliberately ram other people.. and those pushing have priority and “riding” is a bit cheeky but noone minds.
Steve - when you're walking up the push up track and someone comes up behind on an ebike or a normal bike do you move out of the way a little and let them by, or do you carry on walking giving them no room to pass safely?
You can be an ebike apologist all you like
Er...not sure where you're getting that from Steve 😕 Don't think ive ever apologized for ebikes, nor thought there was any need to. I am looking to get one eventually, but due to medical probs, so necessity rather than anything else.
That said i will stick to multiple bikes, both manual and electric. Every bike has its usage.
Is the idea if no cycling on push ups to remind people not to ride down them, rather than up them?
cookea
I sort of understand your rant, the various wheeled things and their operators trundling about swinley on a given weekend all pose some level of risk to themselves and other Forrest users.
I think the valid counter point (that most of this thread subscribe to) is that booting a Leccy M/C around that environment is a tier of risk well above fat Dad’s on eeebs.
You’re right of course, laws are inevitably enforced in a “discretionary” way. I would hope police discretion is applied on the basis of potential for risk and harm.
My question here though is the relevance of why it matters if its a road legal e-bike or one of these electric motor bikes riding off a designated footpath/bridleway on Private land (Crown estate) - Camberley town Centre etc. obviuously does.
It's also something anyone who rides off-piste at Swinley (on any type of bike) shouldn't be hypocritical about IMHO. Not to mention those balance things (can't remember the name) they rent out at Swinley aren't road legal either.
The other part is more about how they are enforced but made (specific to England here).
I did email my MP why he voted to give PSCO's the power to fine children for riding on the pavement .. he declined to answer. The real point is I doubt he even realised what he was voting for... it just happened to be one of the 20 days a year he showed up for work and the act was put forwards by someone in his party. I doubt he read it and if he did I doubt he understood it or bothered to get someone who did to explain it.
Scale that up the heirachy and Boris claimed he didn't know the rules ... yet his passenger was a solicitor. [not to mention he didn't realise one way applies to bikes etc. when he was mayor]
It seems to me the popular vote was voting for someone who says laws don't apply both personally and in national and international ... People voted specifically for a manifesto to remove the power of the courts to hear illegal acts undertaken by the government...
Not my doing but if this is what people voted for then I can only go along with it.
BenjiM
Is the idea if no cycling on push ups to remind people not to ride down them, rather than up them?
If that was the case I'd assume the signs would be the other way round ??
Not that people usually minded so long as the people going up act considerately... certainly ridden up a few myself.
julians
Steve – when you’re walking up the push up track and someone comes up behind on an ebike or a normal bike do you move out of the way a little and let them by, or do you carry on walking giving them no room to pass safely?
I don't really understand the question.... do you mean every time or where there is room without jumping in a bush or risking falling down the slope ??
The point is at a DOWNHILL BIKE PARK it is accepted that you don't physically force your way past people either up or down. This has never required actually writing down, rather common sense and DH bike Park etiquette and its worked for years.
For example at windhill the left push-up (going up) has always been generally accepted that people ride or push or both. Plenty of people take a DJ so pedalling isn't a real option for them. If I was pushing up the left then the situation simply wouldn't happen unless the person behind deliberately chose to use the same side of the track out of pure stubborness because I'd be over at one side.
If you are pushing up the other side of Windhill then there are only limited passing places anyway so if you do ride you stop when you catch anyone pushing... if they let you past at the next passing place its a bonus..
My mate with a Levo rides up the left and pushes up the right (unless its midweek and there are 8 people in the whole park). Indeed he's towed me part of the way up the left a few times.
doomaniac
Nobody in the history of eBikes has done this.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Yes you are obviously trolling.
Of course people who buy a A DH bike also ride down but they did that before.
they bought the e-DH to change that from down only to up and down or are you saying they buy a 180-200mm travel e-bike to do the shopping as well?
Cewrtaionly the advertising suggests this is the reason
Random first add on google for e DH bike
Downhill E-Bike
husqvarna downhill e-mountainbike
Come down strong, climb up stronger.
Shred your way uphill as confidently as you would downhill with the Husqvarna Extreme Cross. With a dignified amount of power punched in, be lifted by the noticeable boost of torque when required – turning the thrill of up and downhill rides, more exhilarating than ever.
Not to mention the people who say this is why they bought an ebike... so they can ride places there is no uplift. (including my mate)
It's the same as people were saying about the sur ron ... the reality of where you can ride isn't necessarily matching the idea before buying. Unless access is required for vehicles most push-ups are a bike width and feet wide... trail builders and bike park owners don't spend their time making 2-3 bike wide push-ups specifically for people that want to pedal up. Most places specifically don't want them any wider leading to erosion and more maintenance hence why they put branches and fences at the sides.
This may change with more ebikes and perhaps opening bike parks to electric motorbikes but its not the current reality.
My question here though is the relevance of why it matters if its a road legal e-bike or one of these electric motor bikes riding off a designated footpath/bridleway on Private land (Crown estate) – Camberley town Centre etc. obviuously does.
Because for one it is an offence under Section 34 of the Road Traffic Act and for the other it isn't?
It’s also something anyone who rides off-piste at Swinley (on any type of bike) shouldn’t be hypocritical about IMHO.
Two wrongs don't make a right, obviously, but the two acts do not equate (except maybe in the instance of SSSI-related violations).
Not to mention those balance things (can’t remember the name) they rent out at Swinley aren’t road legal either.
Segways? They are being used on private land by permission / license of the land owner so there is no requirement for them to be road-legal.
As for rear-view cameras - I have no idea (or interest) but it just sounds like their use isn't specifically prohibited, rather caught by ill thought out / framed legislation designed to stop people watching Netflix while driving (a good thing?). Your (and others affected by this) time would be better served lobbying to get the relevant regulations changed rather than venting about it on an unrelated thread on an internet forum?
Are you the push up police? You clearly have a chip on your shoulder over eBikes and you really should get over it. You’ll be a lot happier and possibly live a little longer without all the self inflicted stress.
Two wrongs don’t make a right
But 3 lefts do 😀
Is steve ok? I read this thread weeks ago and have just caught up on the last couple of pages.
I’m not stupid but I cannot for the life of me work out a single point steve is trying to make.
It’s something to do with ebikes, DH bikes, cameras on campervans and bridleways but I’m honestly non the wiser.
I don’t mean to be rude but I don’t know where his ‘arguments’ fit in to the ‘Sauron rider is a pillock’ origins at the start of the thread.
I’m off to bed.
The push up at Aston Hill is a footpath IIRC, it wasnt mentioned last time I raced there but it was ridden up by ebikes and trail/enduro bikes.
BITD it didn't matter as nobody was going to pedal a 35lb+ DH bike up it. Not sure what the crack is now, aside it being shut due to Ash die back.
Maybe some venues will start allowing E-mopeds but then why not allow petrol mopeds?
I'm glad the moron with the Suron has seen sense. Yes he cen still be a dick on a levo but there's much less chance of him hurting someone or himself.
I wouldn't like to have been the driver to have been involved if he ran out of talent involving a moving van rather than a stationary one.
Is steve ok?
Yes, no, maybe. He has form.
Trying to bend threads to one of his (many) personal bêtes noires is a speciality.
Because for one it is an offence under Section 34 of the Road Traffic Act and for the other it isn’t?
Which part pf the RTA relates to motor vehicles on private land ?
Two wrongs don’t make a right, obviously, but the two acts do not equate (except maybe in the instance of SSSI-related violations).
They don't equate to you because you ride bikes... they are both in fact the same and trespass, nothing to do with the RTA. To a member of the non bike riding public they don't care if they are buzzed by a bike being ridden illegally off-piste and a motorbike being ridden off piste.
To a member of the electric motorbike community then since we ride off piste so it directly equates.
Lister
Is steve ok? I read this thread weeks ago and have just caught up on the last couple of pages.
I’m not stupid but I cannot for the life of me work out a single point steve is trying to make.
It’s something to do with ebikes, DH bikes, cameras on campervans and bridleways but I’m honestly non the wiser.
I don’t mean to be rude but I don’t know where his ‘arguments’ fit in to the ‘Sauron rider is a pillock’ origins at the start of the thread.
I’m off to bed.
Hope you slept well ....
These are just examples of people on here who don't think twice about breaking the law on a bike but think doing the same on these e-motorbikes on private land is somehow different.
(The example above being these don't equate)
Rear view cameras is just an example ... topical only in that it was discussed a week or so ago where others agreed it was not important if it was legal or not if it kept them from having an accident.
frogstomp
As for rear-view cameras – I have no idea (or interest) but it just sounds like their use isn’t specifically prohibited, rather caught by ill thought out / framed legislation designed to stop people watching Netflix while driving (a good thing?).
I'd have thought that is obvious but that is my point, why follow laws that are voted in by a bunch of dishonest, incompetent shirkers or because they have been bribed or forced to vote for something?
Your (and others affected by this) time would be better served lobbying to get the relevant regulations changed rather than venting about it on an unrelated thread on an internet forum?
I'm not venting, it doesn't affect me unless I get caught (I missed the ebay on the towbar so just wired up a camera myself) and its just an example of selective choice of laws to follow or not ... the RTA is so messed up and old it needs rewriting* but that is hardly going to happen with a PM in charge who just ignores it whenever he likes with a cabinet that voted to intentionally break international law.
"The people" clearly voted for someone who is a serial RTA offender and just gets off.
*The RTA is in such a state that any and all changes to it or related acts potentially lead to unintended consequences and few if any MP's are qualified to vote on changes that reference it. This is assuming they actually read what they vote on.
Which part pf the RTA relates to motor vehicles on private land ?
Section 34 in the link above:
Prohibition of driving mechanically propelled vehicles elsewhere than on roads.E+W
(1)Subject to the provisions of this section, if without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle—
(a)on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or
(b)on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway,he is guilty of an offence.
Common land being defined as including private land which has general, restricted access granted.
Oh, and e-bikes (i.e. pedalecs) are not regarded as mechanically propelled vehicles.. before you try and make that point.
Do you not appreciate that things have levels of illegality?
Or is doing 80 on a empty motorway the same as first degree murder to you?
jamesoz
The push up at Aston Hill is a footpath IIRC, it wasnt mentioned last time I raced there but it was ridden up by ebikes and trail/enduro bikes.
BITD it didn’t matter as nobody was going to pedal a 35lb+ DH bike up it. Not sure what the crack is now, aside it being shut due to Ash die back.
Ironically its one that is made wide enough for vehicular access but plenty of us ride up.. but its never been a real problem before so long as people are sensible where the golf trolley buggies jump in.
Are you the push up police? You clearly have a chip on your shoulder over eBikes and you really should get over it. You’ll be a lot happier and possibly live a little longer without all the self inflicted stress.
We never needed push-up police.
I don't see why you think its OK to deliberatly ram someone with an e-bike or give them a punishment kick on the way past on a designated push-up in a downhill bike park for not jumping off the push-up into a bush? Perhaps you can explain why that is OK but pushing up a push-up isn't ?
It's starting to sound with people like you about they will need push-up police before the push-ups become the most dangerous part of DH.
I have no problem with e-bikes, I even tried my mates up the push-up but he doesn't deliberatly ram kids or give them a push on the way past for pushing too slowly
You haven't even tried to say WHY it's OK to threaten or assault people who push... it seems to me you just think you have a right to not having the idea of riding pushups or whatever shattered by some poor people or people just don't want an ebike??? (I personally think they are ace but I fall into poor people)
Do you apply the same to pedestrians walking round the bike trails at Swinley? Are they fair game to ram if they don't move aside fast enough, do you give them a kick on the way past to teach them a lesson?
jamesoz
Maybe some venues will start allowing E-mopeds but then why not allow petrol mopeds?
That's up to them when its private but it will require some extensive changes or will lose the more traditional demographic. (Perhaps to no e-assisted sites)
I’m glad the moron with the Suron has seen sense. Yes he cen still be a dick on a levo but there’s much less chance of him hurting someone or himself.
I wouldn’t like to have been the driver to have been involved if he ran out of talent involving a moving van rather than a stationary one.
I don't think he see's any sense at all he's just sold one machine and bought another.
If anything I'd expect him to be a bigger dick now he has a "road legal" bike but who knows?
I used to think Steve was posting drunk, but it's too early on a Monday to be that drunk. Is it?
Do you not appreciate that things have levels of illegality?
Or is doing 80 on a empty motorway the same as first degree murder to you?
I stated that multiple times.. if you switch that to manslaughter its easier to explain...
If doing 80 on a foggy but apparently motorway means you smash into someone then its about the same isn't it?
Its all about judgement and intent to me.
Do I care if the camera is illegal if it saves me killing someone?
Or do I care if a sur ron thing is road legal vs a e-bike or "conventional" bike...
I thought I'd made it clear (multiple times) I don't give a flying f--- either way about the legality or not. These are just accidents of our legislative process.
My objection is the hypocracy based on this dicks choice of machine rather than him being a dick and then saying "sure I ride off piste but that's different, I'm on a road legal bike" like that matters to the people having the picnic at Swinley.
I randomly broke the law on many occasions this week... I used some illegal lead based solder because I'm not willing to put myself at risk using lead free fluxes in a tight space in the van.
I'm simply saying given the election of a government who stood on ignoring laws noone else should be over concerned with if something is legal or not ... simply the consequences of doing something or not.
Is there any to display this thread without stevextc's post? Just finding the tedious irrevelent postings a bit of a bore now.
Right then.
Thanks for that Josh. Though in my defence I was experiencing a real dark bout of depression and start thinking very dark suicidal though processes, which I get when things start to look bleak, and i start to think my accomplishments in life have led to nothing. It’s partly a side effect to being autistic.
But thanks for making such a comparison 😆
It is clearly obvious that i have made a comment that i need to whole heartedly apologise for. My off the cuff remark that wasn't intended to be directed at anyone has touched on a subject that i am frankly embarrassed to have belittled intentionally or otherwise.
@Dyna-ti i am very sorry. I should think more and type less. I will follow this up with a PM.
Everyone else... I am also sorry i don't want this place to be unwelcoming for anyone. There have been a few posts suggesting drugs nd alcohol and generally comments that are getting personal. Can i suggest based on my own experience on here that people take few minutes to consider that you don't know what is going on in the life of someone on the other end of the keyboard. Be kind and keep it on the topic under discussion. I forgot that up there^ let me make the mistake on your behalf.
I thought I’d made it clear (multiple times)
You really, really didn't.
We never needed push-up police.
I don’t see why you think its OK to deliberatly ram someone with an e-bike or give them a punishment kick on the way past on a designated push-up in a downhill bike park for not jumping off the push-up into a bush? Perhaps you can explain why that is OK but pushing up a push-up isn’t ?
@stevextc where have I said any of that was OK? I said it was possible that you were being a dick as well, I never said it was OK.
I thought this thread was supposed to be about some numptie riding an eMX on bike trails - seems it’s morphed into one person’s incoherent ramblings on why it’s ok to pick & chose which laws to obey?
Is he a Freemen of the land by any chance??
Adds stevextc to the list:
Ninfan
Chewk
Stevextc