[Closed] Saracen, would you?

I've only heard good things since their comeback. They've got a few years under their belt with the Ariel and is a proven design. I know a few people that rate the Ariel highly. I wouldn't have an issue buying one.

I have.

I got an Ariel 14x frame at the end of last year, my first full-suss bike and I really like it. Only done a couple of hundred miles so far, but nothing wrong so far...

I've also got a 2012 Zen-X hardtail and my experience with that was part of the reason I went for the Ariel.

I would. Totally different now compared to the wilderness years and always seem to get reasonably positive reviews. My first MTB being a 1989 Tufftrax helps as well. 😀

I think there are positive comments on the other thread. For the avoidance of doubt I put the issue down as an annoyance rather than something major.

Aside from that the bike (mine is a 14X frame) is very well made and detailed. It rides superbly and is an absolute hoot. Climbs well (unlike me) and is quite at home heading down pretty much anything I have shown it from Cannock to BPW or the Lakes, Peak and Scotland.

Local shop are dealers, the outgoing 26" bikes were all lovely. Heard nothing but positives on the new 27.5 ones too.

The bushing thread is obviously a worry, but if that's a small issue, then the bikes themselves are quality.

And the frames ship with included headsets, dropouts and all sorts of little extras too, which is nice.

Madison are good to deal with and as the own Saracen it removes one layer of bureaucracy if the worst does happen.Instead of having to go through an importer,who then has to deal with a brand abroad.
Ultimately buy from a shop you have a good relationship with as they are your first call.
Yep...I'd buy one.

Get one!

The carbon swing arm on the alu front triangles has had some play on some models. The distributor is good with replacing bushings and bearings and full frames if need be.

I had the full aluminium 140mm travel bike (I believe the 16X/160mm version is also full alu) and it was great!...slack long and low before it became all the rage (2012 when they relaunched I bought mine), southern DH/ride it out website really rated them and described them as a mini downhill bike. They even forked out their own money to keep the long termer test bike to use as a guide bike in the Alps.

Mine was stolen....bastards, I'd have another though.

Its abit like Skoda of the bicycle world. Some people still remember the real Saracens... its sarc'in 😆

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Girlfriend has one and if it fit me I would be riding it all the time 😉

But a really nice balanced bike, with a plush suspension.

Not that light though, hers is 32lb all up.
Think a load of that is the rear cassette.

Have done and would do again.

I had the same year's ariel as deviant, it was possibly the most fun bike I've owned but heavy as an anchor

The Zen from the same year was brilliant and my favourite 26in hardtail. Very nicely made frame.

Wonder if they'll update the geometry on the Ariel for next year's model, giving it a longer front centre?

I have a 2014 Kili Flyer. Had no issues with at all, I have uprated a few things through personal preference. Its my first full suspension bike and I love it.

Thanks everyone, lots of positive there.

What about sizing, I'm 5'10ish but have shorter than average legs... usually means I'm between sizes. I will hopefully try before I buy.

That Saracen Havoc brings back memories...

My first ever serious mountain biking trip involved a borrowed Havoc (in that exact colour scheme) and a weekend in the Peaks. That beast weighed 40lbs, had cable disk brakes and forks that were nigh on useless. I did fifty five miles over the August Bank Holiday weekend in 2003 on that monster.

But I fell in love with MTBing that weekend and haven't looked back.

If they made the best bike in the world I still couldn't buy one.
Same with Skoda and cars.
I would pick something from giant or similar instead.

This below is unforgivable.

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I think I would you know - having one is hardly holding back Manon Carpenter!

Quick glance at their site though... Ariel 152 with a Alu main-frame for £3300 or a Capra CF Pro for a few quid more or a Comp for a few quid less, both which have great spec (brand loyalty notwithstanding) and a full carbon frame and all-but perfect reviews from media and riders.

The top Spec Alu Capra is a grand cheaper than the 152 too.

It's not quite like Skoda. Skoda were crap, and then got bought and became OK. Saracen started out great....

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..and had some fantastic bikes in the 80s (Tufftrax etc). Then it went horribly wrong for a while. I'm happy the brand is back. I had a 27.5 Xen for a while - it was a nice bike.

If a brand is old enough then often they've had some awful periods. I rode some Giant carbon bikes in the early 90s that have put me off them for life 😉

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I've ridden both Ariel and Kili bikes and I have to say the Kili is bang on for my mincing riding style. It flatters nicely without biting too badly when you exceed your skill levels.

Would you?

Already have
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I have had the privilege to own or ride a lot of bikes over the years, Santa Cruz, Intense, treks, yetis etc. I currently own a Saracen 12x kili flyer and it is without doubt one of the best all round bikes I've ever owned. It does everything very well and is a real hoot to ride. I Know of a few frames with bush issues but I've not had a problem. I have always found Madison to be spot on with their warranty anyway so it doesn't bother me at all. Built it up with 130mm revelations and XT 1x10 and she's a beaut. Am seriously considering a carbon one or possibly sell the frame and build up an ariel.

Naa, i'd get a Vitus.

My only MTB right now is a Mantra Elite, 27.5 hardtail. Its great, I'm very happy with it. Would definitely get another Saracen.

I would. Even though we have 2 halfordz sarcinz in the garage, a 40lb rufftrak hardtail and a urt raw full suss, both incredibly awful. It's not the same company.

Would

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I'd ride the [s]old[/s] middle 'sarc'in' if they were going to pay me 😉

Interesting that they don't have an enduro team, haven't checked for independants

Interesting that they don't have an enduro team,

Continental Saracen?

[url= http://www.saracen.co.uk/blog/16/12/2014/continental-saracen-ale-king ]Ale King Vid[/url]

In response to this thread we have ordered a couple of Saracens available for demo.

Any enquiries please give us a ring on 0161 491 3191 and ask for Andy. Bikehaus-Gatley.

I've contacted Portlyone and offered a test ride.

Got myself a 2nd hand Myst a few months ago and it's mint. Looks great and rides really well. As above, it's not held Manon back 😛

UR BIK IS SARACING

*Only the old school riders will understand this

It's actually a real shame what happened to the Saracen brand. The TuffTrax, Trekker and Kili Flyers of the 80s were the absolute bikes to have if you didn't fancy a Muddy Fox Courier or Explorer. Virtually indestructible and a great intro to all day riding and racing.

It was the monstrosities that followed led to the slur...

I would. Got to ride a few different models of Kili Flyer in the past year and enjoyed them all. They made me confident enough to go for a Saracen when buying a road bike last year, and that's been great too.

(The Kore saddles they ship are absolute murder on your arse if you're more used to a Spoon though).

2001/2 SARACING came about. Was deffo pre feb 03 and mbuk forum didnt start till oct 00

I don't know if I would but I'd certainly try one and see if I liked it.

The name wouldn't put me off whatsoever.

Hatter, that looks ace, is that the Kili Flyer?

I've hires a 151 a couple of times and it is an excellent bike, different to my Orange Five but excellent none the less. If you are in the area or plan to be Castle Bikes in Caerphilly will hire you one for £40 which you would have all day to ride wherever you fancy. If you got to the shop early doors then Afan, Cwmcarn, FOD, BPW or the excellent local stuff around the shop are all options!

Yes I have a 14X custom build, (great spec) great bike. Great all rounder, punches above it 140 travel DH.

It is up for sale as complete bike or frame.

Hatter, that looks ace, is that the Kili Flyer?

Why thank you kind sir *blushes*

Yeah it's an XL 2014 Kili built up from the frame. Had it since November.

There's a 19" Kili Flyer X frame for sale in the classifieds you know... 😉

Apologies for the hijack.. but Ive been looking at new frames recently to replace my old Trek Fuel EX7 (2009). This looks a cracking frame and the 2014 one is available for around £700 with shock.
Just wondering if all my old stuff from the Trek would go fit nicely on this frame:
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I gather I could get my 1/8" sektors into a tapered headset but cant find the seatpost dia anywhere (would like to re-use reverb if I can)

If your looking at freeborn, they have been fantastic with me, they sent me a hope adapter for the headset, the frame comes with qr back end 135mm bolt through and 142 bolt thru options a fsa no 9 headset (not fitted) and a seat clamp. The post size is 30.9mm.

Excellent, thanks for the info....

My 12x is available for demo if anyone want to try one in the Midlands.

UR BIK IS SARACING

*Only the old school riders will understand this

No - The old school was 10-15 years before that, and probably read the Crane's book about riding (ok carrying) them up Kilimanjaro. Still got my proper Kili-Flyer in the attic - 1990 ish vintage in fillet brazed Tange Prestige, Deore II groupset (when Deore was basically mat finish XT), Farmer John & John's Cousin tyres. Sigh. I got my first in 1989 and they were damn nice bikes for the time.

They were still making some quite nice steel and ti bikes up to about 1997 ish I think.

I do like the look of the new ones to have as an Alipne holiday type of bike - especially as just realised I still seem to be riding modern bikes made out of fillet brazed steel.....

My first MTB (in 1993 or 1994) was a Saracen.
Sahara Elite in gloss black. Got me well and truly into MTBing and eventually I upgraded to a Kili Ultra Ti (in about 1997/1998).
Lovely raw titanium finish.

I sold that a little while ago but I'd certainly have another, their new bikes look stunning. Yes, they had their truly shit supermarket special range for a few years but I think the brand has made a real comeback.

Ah, sigh. Those Z-Max tyres were so good at picking up mud.

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Ive got a 2012 Kili Flyer. It's one of the nicest bikes I've ever seen and a fantastic ride.

[url= https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8389/8463713491_79b459fe7e_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8389/8463713491_79b459fe7e_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/dTUK9F ]42/365[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/27857042@N00/ ]PeterPoddy[/url], on Flickr

Ah, sigh. Those Z-Max tyres were so good at picking up mud.

Not z-Max's, those tyres are Tioga Farmer Johns. (Might be the nephew one?)

Name wouldn't put me off but this years colours would (yes I know that doesn't really matter but....)

I loved my Zen,it has now moved on to my nephew, but I would like it back when he has grown out of it. I done a mini review [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/saracen-zen-mini-review-if-you-are-interested ]here.[/url]

Going back off topic.....exactly like Skoda. Started off good, went through a rough patch, most people didn't know about the good bit and now they're good again. 🙂

I'd go for a stealth look for sure. Got me a demo ride for the weekend, if all goes well I'll seriously start haggling.

Would

Definitely would

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😉

Demo'd the Ariel 152 today, can't fault it at all. Well, the 1x might have to be a 2x but apart from that...

Going to go and check the sofa for spare change.

Not sure the Skoda comparisons are fair. More Mercedes, if you ask me. Yes, seriously.....bear with me!

Back in the day, Saracens were the bikes we all wanted. Beautifully built, reassuringly expensive but not silly money. They had the best paint in the business, a brilliant after sales team and were perfectly specced for each use. Think Merc W123.

Then, the Stanforths bought the company, bent it over a desk and had their wicked way with it, producing the abominations that were posted on the previous page. Think mid-school shitter of a C-class. Built to a price point and fell apart.

Now, they're back. Making great bikes with real thought and care. Look at a modern E-class. Almost perfect.

Skoda were screwed by communism. Saracen were screwed by idiots. Thankfully, both brands are back where they should be.

My 16x arrived today. Looks nicely made and has built up to be a little lighter than I expected.

It will get a good shakedown ride tomorrow and I'll post my thoughts then.

I have a 2015 Saracen Myst pro, it's a fantastic bike, I would recommend it to anyone who is into downhill

My cousin has got that exact bike that nach posted. He bought it back in the day and rarely used it. It's still got the original Z max tyres on it. I bought my first Saracen around the same time, a protrax which I later upgraded to a Killi pro. Ah! Them were the days!

I'd have an ariel or kili I reckon, shame they seem a bit overpriced.

First ride on the 16x today. Built up with Lyriks and 1x10 drive.

Initial impressions, for those interested, are that the frame feels as solid to ride as it looks. With the steep seat tube the bike pedals much better than I expected. The 60mm stem I have on it is too long for me with the 630mm TT and is pulling me too far forward on the bike, but I expected this and always planned to order a 40mm for it.

The suspension is very active and the CTD BV shock that came on it doesn't seem to be up to the job. Reading the opinions of others on this shock I half expected this would be the case. I like a firm feeling setup and in order to get this I have had to run the shock in the Climb setting on number 2 trail adjust. I'm concerned that long term this would damage the shock though. The simple fact is that compression wise its way under damped for me. I'll send it to TF Tuned sooner or later and get it Push tuned to my liking.

Once I have a shorter stem and have my riding position nailed I can tell I'm going to love it. Having the shock Pushed will finish it off nicely.

Oh and no sign of play in the linkage. Hope it stays that way.

You can pick these frames up for under £700 at the moment, which IMHO is a pretty good deal for a very capable frame.

run the shock in the Climb setting on number 2 trail adjust

Thought the trail adjust only worked on the trail setting?

Another hijack on this one.... How are the sizing's on these frames (Ariel 14X)?
My old trek was an 18.5/19.5v and always felt a bit short for me. Looking at the Ariel 2014 frames they do a 15, 17, 19 & 21". I'm 6'2" and a lot of online 'frames size guides' say I should be on a 21 " frame... Anybody got any advice to throw at me. Obviously it would be nice to go and sit on one but as its a 2014 frame I'm looking at, this might be difficult.

Thought the trail adjust only worked on the trail setting?

Good question. Have to admit I didn't RTFM.

It didn't seem to make much difference either way. Been in touch with TF and will get it Pushed.

BFITH

I'm 6 foot with a longish reach on a 19" 16x, if that helps.

*Only the old school riders will understand this

Call that old school?

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Back in the day, Saracens were the bikes we all wanted. Beautifully built, reassuringly expensive but not silly money. They had the best paint in the business, a brilliant after sales team and were perfectly specced for each use. Think Merc W123.

Then, the Stanforths bought the company, bent it over a desk and had their wicked way with it, producing the abominations that were posted on the previous page. Think mid-school shitter of a C-class. Built to a price point and fell apart.

The Stanforths owned it from the around 85 onwards, just after the Cranes went up Kilimanjaro, so all the good mid-late 80s and into the 90s stuff was under their ownership. It went a bit wrong in the Halfords years.

Agreed that Madison are doing a good job now, a chap at work has a 650b Ariel and loves it.

Going back 3 yrs I was all up for one of these. Never did, still would:

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It went a bit wrong in the Halfords years.

They supplied bikes to Halfords long before they went bab in the late 90's. They used to badge up one of the other bikes (Usually Tufftrax level) as the Eiger to sell in Halfords. I've got a 1989 Tufftrax and also had a 1989 Eiger that was exactly the same apart from the top tube sticker.

where you based BFITH? got a large 14X you can swing a leg over if you in Wiltshire.

Hi there BFITH, I'm 6 2" and ride a 21"/XL, that's the size my Kili in the picture I posted earlier is.

It's got good standover due to the dropped top tube and the length means I can run a 50 mm stem although I'm toying with the idea of trying a 40.

I wanted a bike I could ride a bit of distance on so I wanted the reach but also wanted a stubby stem for handling and it seems to have worked out well.

If you're thinking of getting an Ariel for uplifts and push-up/hoon-down duties then you maybe better with the 19" but if you're planing on doing any distance or climbing I'd go for the 21", otherwise you'll have to ran a bit of a donkey-todger stemwise to get a comfortable reach.

I think around 1998 they decided to go rad, offshored production and became saracin.

this was the year I bought a tufftrax.

compare and contrast

[url= http://www.rideandrepair.co.uk/Retrobike/Saracen_1998.pdf ]http://www.rideandrepair.co.uk/Retrobike/Saracen_1998.pdf[/url]

I've got a 1989 Tufftrax and also had a 1989 Eiger that was exactly the same apart from the top tube sticker.

Hatter - thanks for the info. Would be using it for everything really. Mostly trails around the local area, the occasional trip to a trail centre and Alps for a weekend each year.
21" might be the way forward

MTB Rob - thanks for the offer but im in west Yorkshire....

I got the 17" Kili Flyer 122 in the end. First ride was at Llandegla on Saturday and it was great fun. Climbs particularly well and it felt solid on the descents (and in the air).

I was quite surprised at the attention it got while in the bike stands, maybe it was because I left the wheel reflectors on in my haste to ride 😳