Sapim nipples - aluminium or brass?

I've got black brass nips on most wheel that's doing well.

I used alloy nips on a 26" wheelset. The front still seems ok. The rear were all replaced with brass when the tacoed rim was replaced. Most of the alloy ones crumbled and cracked. If it helps they were anodised blue.

I'd always use brass. Last longer and don't round off so easily. My bike is rarely clean long enough to get a good look at the nipples though.

Brass all day long for me. Every vestige of my material science uni module and every molecule of my common sense, every day experience says aluminium alloy nipples with stainless spokes is bloody stupid.

Unless you live somewhere warm, dry where they don’t salt the roads in winter or only ride in summer then maybe alloy nips are fine. For all-year riding in the UK forget it IME.

Aluminium nipples are the work of the devil.

I've been getting on fine with hand built wheels using Sapim alloy nipples, even replaced both rims and re-used existing alloy nips with no issues.

Maybe 3 years/2000km old now, plus not heavily used and rarely if ever used on salty roads, but winter gravel and mud certainly.

Only caveat is that I build with a smear of copper grease on the threads. Always have, even with brass nipples, can't remember why, but it would certainly help prevent seizing.

Would use them again, perhaps not for commuter wheels right enough.

The Sapim alloy nipples are good compared to some other alloy nipples. But they are not as robust as brass ones.

Just depend what you want in terms of weight/budget/colour/reliability/long term etc. And how you treat your kit, I have seen some customers turn alloy nipples to white powder in less than 6 months, others have perfect  nipples that still turn years later. Big difference in how they use/store/maintain their bikes though.

I was wondering the same thing for my last wheel build. I went with the alloy sapim but really not long enough for useful data. The sapim website says to not even use oil so that's what I've done.

Brass, especially if you fix bikes. Only choice. The rest is fashion.

especially if you fix bikes

I fix bikes, which was what convinced me to take a chance on decent quality alloy nipples since I already had a decent 4-sided spoke key and a can of copper grease 😎

I had a wheelset built with DT Swiss alloy nips last September (came with the rims)… as they break one by one I’m replacing with double square brass. Four replaced so far.

Why are alu nipples so rubbish? I've had the same issues (crumbling etc), but alu frames, hubs, rims don't disintegrate after 2 winters..
?

I’ve just bought a high spec set of DT Swiss wheels that have come with aluminium pro lock. 🤷‍♂️

Why are alu nipples so rubbish? I’ve had the same issues (crumbling etc), but alu frames, hubs, rims don’t disintegrate after 2 winters..

Aluminium is reactive stainless steel resulting in the aluminium corroding. A nipple has a very large contact surface relative to volume with the stainless steel spoke through the thread. The only thing that could make that worse is the addition of saline water. That's why lots of effort is put into not having aluminium and stainless steel not in direct contact with each other on boats.

Additional problem with nipples is that the very act of using them (i.e. the tensioning the spoke with a key in the build) has a reasonable chance of knackering any protective coating.

I had to rebuild a pair of wheels because the alu nipples corroded and split. Brass every time now.

I had a wheelset built with DT Swiss alloy nips last September (came with the rims)… as they break one by one I’m replacing with double square brass. Four replaced so far.

I’m going through exactly the same process with some Reynolds wheels built with Sapim spokes and nipples, the nipples are just crumbling.

Brass are a bit heavier, but you’ll be thankful in the long run.

Yes, so generally brass is better which we all know already.

And now Sapim's 7075 T6 alu is good but still doesn't beat brass.

I’ve been getting on fine with hand built wheels using Sapim alloy nipples, even replaced both rims and re-used existing alloy nips with no issues.

Maybe 3 years/2000km old now, plus not heavily used and rarely if ever used on salty roads, but winter gravel and mud certainly.

The Sapim alloy nipples are good compared to some other alloy nipples. But they are not as robust as brass ones.

Just depend what you want in terms of weight/budget/colour/reliability/long term etc. And how you treat your kit, I have seen some customers turn alloy nipples to white powder in less than 6 months, others have perfect nipples that still turn years later. Big difference in how they use/store/maintain their bikes though.

Weight and cost difference are trivial, colour slight preference for black. It's a nice wheel so I want decent longevity from it, 1500km per year until 2030 at least.

Wheels will be washed every muddy ride.

I had a wheelset built with DT Swiss alloy nips last September (came with the rims)… as they break one by one I’m replacing with double square brass. Four replaced so far.

Less than a year and you're having failures like that?!  You need a new wheel builder.

I'd choose brass normally but a set of wheels I built have DT Swiss rims with the alloy nipples supplied so just used them. No failures in  3 years and it's a hardtail,  so the rest gets a battering.

I knew a wheel builder who would not warranty/cover alloy nipples. He told me they are too prone to seize and then round off.  sea air and salted roads.... And anyway... most folk only chose alloy for a cool bit of colour rather than performance.

I wonder how much weight you actually save with alloy. Probably less than a swig from a water bottle. Has anyone worked this out?

I’d choose brass normally but a set of wheels I built have DT Swiss rims with the alloy nipples supplied so just used them

The silver ones that come with the rims are not as good as the black alu DT ones. Why that is I don't know but I dislike building with the silver ones, but the black ones are fine. Perhaps a different alu grade is used.

I wouldn't say weight is trivial, its probably equivalent to shedding several hundred grams off the total bike weight in terms of ride quality differences, both unsprung mass and rotational mass contributing to make it more than just a question of absolute weight. It depends what you want them for. If you're after off road use on modest weight/strength rims, alu nips are fine as you're far more likely to dent and trash a rim than taco it in my experience, if you want to be able to tweak it over and over, or you do a lot of road miles in there, then brass is the way to go.

I use almost exclusively alloy on my wheels and its never caused me problems as I don't ride on the road much, so they don't just corrode away, but there has been at least one time I had to rebuild rather than repair, but I can live with that.

I've always used brass nipples in the past, including buying brass DT squorx nipples rather than using the alloy squorx ones DT supply with their rims.

However, I used the supplied alloy nipples to build up XM421s on my trail FSer - simply because I didn't have any brass ones and wanted to crack on with the build. 18 months later and I've not died a fiery death yet. Used in all conditions.

I wonder how much weight you actually save with alloy. Probably less than a swig from a water bottle. Has anyone worked this out?

I think it's almost a gram per nipple? 32g/wheel or 64g/wheelset?

But yeah, since I build them with washers, I pretty much eliminate any weight saving, but I do enjoy that extra sparkle of blue anodising when I look down 😎

Having just had to re-nipple my DT Swiss wheels because a number of the alloy Squorx have gone pop - I would go brass.
The wheels are 7 years old though so maybe I'm being unfair.

I've used aluminium nipples in the past before, because: Shiny Colours.

I think as long as you understand that they're not fit and forget like brass, then no worries.

I wonder how much weight you actually save with alloy. Probably less than a swig from a water bottle. Has anyone worked this out?

I think it’s almost a gram per nipple? 32g/wheel or 64g/wheelset?

For these according to Superstar, it's 1.25g vs. 0.4g, so 27g per wheel. For context, an EX511 rim is 40g heavier than an XM481.

I wouldn’t say weight is trivial, its probably equivalent to shedding several hundred grams off the total bike weight in terms of ride quality differences, both unsprung mass and rotational mass contributing to make it more than just a question of absolute weight.

That's interesting and probably seals the deal for alloy. Reason I thought it'd be trivial is the outer rotating mass includes a 550g rim, 1000g tyre, 90g insert, 13g alu spokes, 20g valve, so adding 27g is 1.6%.

I use almost exclusively alloy on my wheels and its never caused me problems

I see on the Bird Factory wheels that you use alu on XM481 etc., and brass on EX511 etc.

I see on the Bird Factory wheels that you use alu on XM481 etc., and brass on EX511 etc.

Yes that's correct. If you want an xm481 you're probably prioritising weight, so we use alloy, 511 or 541 you're priority is likely strength, so brass is used.

On my personal builds, it's always alloy whatever the rim.

I’ve been using Sapim Polyax alloy nipples for years including on commuting wheels.  So far, no issues.  I sold a 3y old wheelset earlier in the year and checked a few spokes on each wheel before selling and none were seized or difficult to move. My wheels get used year round, all weathers, but the bike is cleaned quite regularly.

Carbon rims, polyax nipples Sapim spokes.  It all works for me,

The very best alu nipples, in the right circumstances, as long as you handle them correctly, are almost as good as the most basic brass nipples, and therefore are pretty much almost kinda fit for purpose. That's good enough for me as I am a weight weenie and general bike tart. It shouldn't be, probably, but it is.

I think the bigger trouble is in factory builds, I've had to retrue wheels that have had light use but are a few years old and found them seized enough that the nipple breaks. That won't happen in wheels I've built myself, but you can't control the build in a factory wheel and they sometimes tend to go in the other direction, as they'd rather have a spoke seize and break in a few years where they can blame operator error or how they've been used, than risk one unwinding and losing tension under warranty.

Alu Polyax on the front and rear non drive side, brass on the rear drive side where you generally need more tension unless you have a frame that accommodates a dishless rear wheel.

Sapim D-light spokes also recommended here.

I’m another that favours Sapim d-light and alloy PolyAx.  I build winter road wheels with LB Carbon rims and above combo 4 years ago and still faultless.  If they start breaking I’ll rebuild with same again.