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Hob nob, not you fella!
Always thought they were for dentists / wanted to be different from the crowd until I got the opportunity to get one after a frame crack on my old bike. Was planing on selling / saving / trading up for Yeti which was always the dream. Hated to admit it to myself but after riding both I preferred the SC over the Yeti. Happy to put up with any abuse about my bike being worth more than my car and being mistaken for a dentist 🙂 The prices are outrageous but I think I'll get 10yrs out of it with the lifetime warranty and bearing replacements.
They don’t seem that expensive for the quality and warranty you get. The geometry is great on the new ones and they have super short seat tubes so you can size up if you want more reach (unless you’re very tall). And the new Bronson and Nomad will work well with coils and be easy to tune air shocks for, now they have the V10 style suspension.
Obviously you can buy much less expensive bikes but in the scheme of things if you like to keep your bikes a long time how much extra will a Santa Cruz cost over 5+ years?
The only other drawback is the owners can be a prickly bunch.
🤣
SC TB2 CC owner here and I love the bike. No, it's not going to be the world's most aggressive descender, but then again, neither am I! What it does do is climb fantastically and, as an overall XC trail bike, I just love riding it. They are expensive buggers, but I've ridden mine pretty hard and it's always come out of it in one piece.
On my third set of linkage bearings and Jungle's support here has been excellent. Takes about an hour to swap, although I tend to do it while doing other maintenance so it's just one more job to do while the bike is stripped.
Never had anyone call me a cock for riding it, and I've never called anyone a cock because they don't have one. I have seen other snobbishness (both upwards and downwards) in mountain biking, but none of it aimed towards me or the bike. In fact, mine is quite a stealthy build so it rarely attracts comment, which suits me down to the ground!
This seems to be an appropriate place to be overly excited by my new SC Bronson MK3 that was finished today. Replacement frame for my out of warranty Australian bought Nomad, that I probably cracked by unsympathetic mechanical ineptitude, which Jungle did me a crash replacement deal on and I can not recommend their service highly enough.
Based on the way my Nomad and TRc rode and the brief demo I had on one at Ardrock I doubt I'm going to be disappointed. It's far more quality of bike than my level of riding would justify but it'll never hold me back, if anything it'll be the other way around.
Are Santa Cruz really that good, well warranty aside, it comes down to whether the ride characteristics suit your riding style, but flippin' heck I think this looks good...
I rode a Hightower LT the other day and it was terrible - bouncing around all over the place, too much antisquat. In hindsight, it was running plus tyres and I don't think the owner had got the pressures anywhere near right. It also had carbon rims, which didn't help - it just felt like it was too light and stiff.
I'm sure other models (and better set up bikes) are excellent, although they feel a bit like the Porsche of the bike world to me - as good as anything out there, but often bought by people because of the name rather than anything else. I'm also slightly put off them by meeting quite a few loud-mouthed, over confident young dickheads who seem to gravitate towards the brand (please don't take this personally SC owners, I'm probably not talking about you!)
JP
Lovely build ohh! Enjoy sir.
FIT. Well nice build. The pointing though...
As has been said geometry is all wrong for me. Too short in the yt?, too slack in the st.
Cheers NoBeers & Howsyourdad! Was a frame only build, unfortunately having to move from 26" to 27.5" has necessitated pretty much a whole new bike... I think the X0 cranks and the XT drivetrain are the only bits that made it over from the Nomad so it's a bit of a hybrid, 'S kit' level wheels off a friends new build Stega, xt groupset, XX1/XTR kit Factory 36 Grip2's, a few burgtec and Easton bits and a cheapo brand X dropper to finish it off! 😂
Its not my pointing so you can't blame me for that one though it's a pretty vintage building!
If you are riding the Ardrock sport NoBeers say hi when you pass me mincing my way down (or crying on the way up!) 🤣
As has been said geometry is all wrong for me. Too short in the yt?, too slack in the st.
Was that conclusion from sitting on one or the spreadsheet?
Out here its seems that SC are the default go to bike (alongside Yeti's), helped by the local disty having one of the largest stocks I have ever seen. Currently have a Tallboy mk3 for general trail duties and its a good all round bike, pedals well and general does what it needs to do, owned a Blur Trc many moons ago and that was the same.
In the last 8 years have owned a variety of bikes from Trek to Yeti to Litevilles and though not a techy on this things I have found them to be generally good all round bikes, well supported and very reliable. Cost is subjective though I picked my 2017 model, new from the shop this year for around 2.4k GBP so I wouldn't say it was that expensive (well compared with the Push shock that I did have on my Firebird).
My mate got a Bronson C to replace his 2012 5 in 2017, he expected to jump on the new 5 & ride off on it but it felt awful & nowhere as good as his old one so he tried the Bronson & bought that. He really likes it.
However...(there's always 'however' isn't there?) He doesn't rate it any higher than the old 5 for either climbing or descending (he is an actual mountain goat anyway) & says the biggest noticeable difference are the fatter tyres. He was on 2.1's on the 5 & 2.3's on the SC.
Mind you, he's only been riding 28 years so probably doesn't know what he's talking about!
I know plenty folk that have been doing stuff for 28 years, and still don't have a clue what they're doing! 🤣
Is there a huge difference in feel/ weight/ flex/ behaviour etc between the alloy and carbon SC’s? I’m a fan of alloy bikes but without demoing one of each material of the same bike, which is quite hard when sat behind a keyboard and no SC demo centres on my doorstep, I’m intrigued to see what others think/ have experienced?
Alu Bronson v2 owner here. I believe the main difference between the CC, C and Alu frames are weight, no bearing grease ports and on the Alu versions some of the linkages are slightly different as Alu cannot be shaped like carbon. That aside geo, suspension etc is identical. Build quality, paint etc is superb.
Low ride height means at 5 10 I can ride a large with 150mm dropper. Cost was much more accessible and the trade off of a little weight and less carbon kudos is no issue.
One Happy Hippy, lovely bike. If I had the cash I’d be on one of those like a shot.
Yerp, I started MTB on a Spesh Stumpy in summer 1988, my Dad was working in the US and brought one each home for me and my brother. Only to discover the were selling them up the road in Carshalton. So I make that over 30 years for me. I am still crap.
And I started MTB in 1988 too but was on BMX for 10 years before that. I am however, awesome.
So, as this thread has become quite long and to reinforce the title of the thread; I've just ridden my Tallboy from Portsmouth to Cannock Chase, took all the bags and camping stuff off it and did a couple of laps of The Dog (what's left of it) and messed around on the locals trails too.
All this on a bike that is nearly 10 years old and SC/Jungle have been there everytime I asked.
Yes, IMHO, they are that good.
Crikey! That's a long way to ride for follow the dog 😵
I currently have a Bronson CC v2 having upgraded from a Blur LTC. I have previously owned a Nomad v1 and an original V10. I normally try to pickup s/h frames and move over as much as I can. Blur to Bronson was however a complete new bike in parts, but still cheaper than a new bike.
Visually I have always liked their form and design which is an aspect of the ownership experience for me (if it looks right etc...). The same way I would not buy a car that I didnt like the look of no matter how well it performed, I could never get past that.
Ride wise I am probably the sort of person that just adapts to what I am given so I am unable to quantify subtle characteristics, but certainly the geo on the Bronson is far more comfortable than previous gens which were pretty short in reach dept. Otherwise I have noticed general improvements along the way and what I have now is pretty near perfect. Probably as much to do with shock technology as anything else.
I do research other makes and own a Specialized DH bike, so I am not advise to trying other things. But I always seem to come back to SC. My riding buddy thinks they are bland and prefers dayglo colour ways, but horses for courses.
Coincidentally I do drive an Audi and ride the Surrey Hills, but have no dealings with the implied shop. Not that I wouldn't, I just don't buy new ones. And as to whether my riding abilities deserve such a bike all can say is I see people much better than me and also much worse.
Disappointed by the restraint shown on this thread. Was expecting a much higher proportion of bitter jealousy.
First ride on the new bike today. Unreal, the only way I can describe how this new Bronson 3 rides. The suspension is incredible, so impressive and confidence inspiring. I honestly can't believe how quick I was going for the first day on a new bike, far, far quicker than on my Nomad which I had ridden for over 6 years. Just unreal.
Come on Nobeer.
Don't just insinuate who the mincer is just come right out and say it.
I don’t stack shelves but my university teaching would pay for a nomad should I ever want one
But you said you only earn 9k a year🤔
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/oh-my-lordy-weddings-how-expensive/page/2/#post-10223573
I’m so smitten with my 2013 Solo that I’m seriously considering adding a Nomad to the stable for more rufty tufty downhilly bike park days. A cheeky hijacking of this thread I know, but is there anyone in the Calder Valley area who’d at least allow me to hop astride their medium Nomad to test for size before I pull the trigger? All opinions re personal experiences with Nomads welcome, good and bad. Ta!
Looking at a new nomad (mk4)?
I wish I could be! The price tag makes me doubt I’d ever do it justice. Right now, I’m considering second hand, older versions. Unless the V4 alloy really is that much more betterer. (New. Better. Faster. Obsolete. Etc.)
Come on nobeer.
I know who you're talking about but.
Spit it out man...
@cheekysprocket - the jump from the V3 to the V4 nomad is huge! It’s the most pronounced improvement in their range.
Also there are some mega deals to be had on carbon and Alu V4 Nomads right now. Buying a V3 would be a mistake in my humble (yet informed) opinion
Feel free to PM me if you need any help. I run an SC dealership.
IMHO Yes they are. I have been lucky enough to own a lot of top end frames with plenty different suspension platforms and none compare to Santa Cruz. The finish on a lot of other frame's in the same price bracket is pretty shit in comparison. Sizing on SC is a lot better now and they feel great to ride.
Had my medium mk3 Bronson about about a month now and coming from a small 2014 Stumpjumper I'm absolutely blown away. It's heavier and so much longer I was worried it might be hard work climbing and in my tight twisty local single-track but it's just hands down better in every situation I've thrown at it. Prs galore and tackling drops I've not felt confident to do. I can see how it could make you a lazy rider I suppose as line choice doesn't seem to matter but the thing is you can go at stuff so much quicker and for me I'm searching out steeper more techy stuff that I'd not done before.
Mikewsmith
Was that conclusion from sitting on one or the spreadsheet
No it was after riding several. Hightower LT, Bronson, and nomad.
@cheekysprocket unless you are riding big bike parks i.e. Whistler, alps etc or hitting the biggest stuff at Black mountains, revo etc on a regular basis then is say a Nomad is over kill for most UK stuff.
I had the option to go from my old MK2 Nomad to a mk4 but decided it was just too much bike. Decided that the Bronson with the new linkage would be the one bike for everything. I don't do massive jumps or big drops any more (though I think the Bronson couple handle them better than me) so for all my uk riding and occasional overseas trips it's the one
Bases on its performance today where it was instantly faster than my old Nomad it's definitely one bike to do it all. I honestly think for 90% of uk DH stuff is be faster on the Bronson than my old V10 it's that sorted.
The new Nomad4/Bronson3 linkage is next level. I try a friends Nomad3 when I was on my Nomad2 and it was better but the new linkage is something else entirely, it's Mind bogglingly better than the old VPP.
Honestly I only got this frame due to the amazing Warranty support of Jungle. However if I hadn't and today has been a demo day to really try one out, I'd be walking in to the bike shop on Monday with a selection of credit cards and worrying about how I would pay for it later. It's that good.
No it was after riding several. Hightower LT, Bronson, and nomad.
Well I only ask as most people have only read the spreadsheet 😉 Fair enough if it doesn't work for you
.....Just think Ross, you could stack those shelves for half a year and maybe buy one reserve wheel
This makes you come across as a bit of a *, imo.
Regardless of what he can or can't afford you judge him because you perceive him to have - in your eyes - a lowly job. It says more about you and your character than it does anyone else.
The * rhymes with shunt. 👍
Don’t just insinuate who the mincer is just come right out and say it.
can only assume he means me. Not really an insult though as I know I'm not great on a bike but between him an bob I'm getting nicely abused on this thread.
Abuse?.
Grow up, I'm merely pointing out that lots of the haters on these threads are spreadsheet warriors, who've never spent any time on a SC to form a valid opinion. Are you saying you don't fall into this category and that my 'abuse is untrue?
Abuse. Gies a ****in break.
As for Bob, that's between you and him, there's obviously been previous with you and him, did you not let on your casting couch when you were a porn magnate or something?. 🙄🤣
Ooh biscuits anyone? BTW what kind of biscuits does a Santa Cruz owner eat?
The most expensive ones!
I’ve ridden are couple and they are great bikes, not to the level that generates this amount of adulation vs abuse though. And it’s interesting that even the owners have completely different views in their climbing vs descending prowess etc.
@jmatlock You shall be having mail.
@one_happy_hippy That’s what I’ve in mind, having been razzing my little Solo around North Vancouver, Squamish, BPW, and Havok up the road, and planning to begin exploring the Alps next year. Ideally I need to give both the Nomad and the Bronson a good testing to be sure.
By all accounts, sounds like I’ll be shelling out for a V4 at some point 😳
Grow up, I’m merely pointing out that lots of the haters on these threads are spreadsheet warriors, who’ve never spent any time on a SC to form a valid opinion. Are you saying you don’t fall into this category and that my ‘abuse is untrue?
Abuse. Gies a **** break.
As for Bob, that’s between you and him, there’s obviously been previous with you and him, did you not let on your casting couch when you were a porn magnate or something?
I didn't say I hated them and your insult, all be it quite a pathetic one, was directed at one particular person not the "haters". Your abuse is uncalled for and pointless unless you are trying to be employed by Trump.
I have no history with Bob or anyone else on this or any other forum.
Now children play nice while the adults talk about bikes 😝😂🤣
@jonnyboi cheap biscuits, I eat cheap biscuits because I've spent all my money on a SC 😂 But it's worth it
@cheekysprocket didn't realise you were in BC changes things a bit, if I had Whistler on my doorstep and the option of smashing park laps on a regular basis then I probably would have gone for a V4. Ok it's not an xc bike but they pedal so well that you can also get around on it pretty well.
I only went for the Bronson over the Nomad as I'm going down to one do it all bike and the amount of pedalling I will be doing is greater than the amount of uplifts etc.
I can guarantee you won't be disappointed. The newer lower VPP driven shock linkage is something else compared to the previous VPP / Shock link on the nomads, Bronson and 5010's etc.
It's a little bit annoying that they have become so popular.
I used to go out riding many years ago when I got my first and people mocked me for spending so much on a bike nobody had heard of and with those silly motorbike brakes nobody needed.
Still got a 2007 Superlight frame (contoured swing arm) that I bought at a great price from Stif when the original frame was found to be cracked.
Fast forward to now and I'm a lot older, erm.... fatter and generally less good at everything. I can afford one of the new bikes and am sorely tempted but I now fall into the all the gear and used to have an idea but now takes it slow weekend warrior tick box.
In the 20 ish years since I got mine it's quite an achievement for the brand to come so far. Wonder if it was Peaty that gave them the footing in the UK, or maybe he just influenced me as my other bike love is old GTs.
Time to buy a Robot Bike instead 😀
Should have been at N3 with us this morning Poah, there were a few SC riders mincing about, me included! 🤣
Should have been at N3 with us this morning Poah, there were a few SC riders mincing about, me included!
was stacking my shelves
Any of you SC-enjoyers had a Yeti SB-66 beforehand? That's what I've got now and it's a bit knackered, I'm trying to decide if I spend the time and money getting it back in condition or just give up and join the bigger wheels bandwagon. The SB-6 isn't quite doing it for me as a replacement.
Not sure if I'd want a Nomad or a Bronson if I did go Santa Cruz next, I do have friends with both but they're a: older versions and b: either too big or too small for me. Eventually I'll do some demos but meanwhile would like to hear anecdotes.
Actually that's another thing that slightly puts me off SC, their design seems to change quite frequently which makes the shiny new bikes feel extra-old after a relatively short time if that makes sense? I wonder if this latest linkage style will stick around for a bit.
The bit that gets me is that they still charge boutique prices and sell that image when they arent anymore. They have become a mass market product, hence why you see so many but have retained the boutique pricing. Fairplay to them, its a clever trick to pull off. Now they are part of PON they are even more mass market and lost that something special of true boutique brands like Yeti, Intense and Ibis from that same part of the world
This thread is like the ones we used to get when Orange 5's were the target species.
*waits for someone to pop up & say, 'yeah but they were/are overpriced crap* 😆
People who see them as overpriced are not actually going in looking to buy a bike. A conversation with a reasonable dealer will have a bike found for you and sold at a really competitive prices.
For example I am currently selling the previous Carbon 5010 (V2) fully built starting at £2800
Fox 34s
NX 11spd
Race Face Dropper
Its a mega bike, many would say the perfect trail bike. And under 3k brand new.
Not all SC bikes are 10k dream builds
The bit that gets me is that they still charge boutique prices and sell that image when they arent anymore.
So how do the frame prices compare to say specialized?
Now if only they would stick the lower linkage shock on a Hightower...
(or, someone at intense would rip it off and put it on a primer)
Why should "boutique" brands cost more anyway?
And what's the difference between a "boutique" brand and just a small bike company?
Probably needs its own thread actually, if anyone cares.
First question is do they?
As I said check the frame price between a few.
Next up the smaller the brand the lower the economy of scale you can achieve
Well Ive just ordered a Hightower C XE Build from Stif. 2018 model with 32% off. So I get to be a smug dentist without the premium pricing.
Next up the smaller the brand the lower the economy of scale you can achieve
Santa Cruz are a division of one of the biggest bike companies in the world. Im sure PON are exploiting all the economies of scale with SC
As I said check the frame price between a few
I have and they are still expensive and get more expensive the further up the spec range you go.
First question is do they?
As I said check the frame price between a few.
I was replying to Chrismac, who had mentioned boutique bikes - so these comments aren't really relevant. Try getting out of automatic "must defend Santa Cruz" mode for a second if you can.
Next up the smaller the brand the lower the economy of scale you can achieve
Yet plenty of smaller brands come in at similar full bike prices to the big boys, funny that.
I can't wait till they bring out an ebike. That thread will be thread of the year.
I was replying to Chrismac, who had mentioned boutique bikes – so these comments aren’t really relevant. Try getting out of automatic “must defend Santa Cruz” mode for a second if you can.
Well as a serious point a SC frame is about the same as a spec carbon one.
Yet plenty of smaller brands come in at similar full bike prices to the big boys, funny that.
Go on then lets see your comparison
Good god no.
I've demeaned myself enough already.
Not sure where this boutique brand shit comes from?
To me they're just another brand that my LBS sells.
They're no more expensive than anything else out there that comes with a full dealer backup.
Real world experience example here for you.
I've had Santacruz bikes since the every early 2000's
At no point have I ever been a dentist or earned a shit load of money.
The last three bikes I have bought have a higher list price than an equally specked santacruz but i've not paid list on any of them either but no one has tried to tell me i'm a dentist for riding any of them.
Just with everything in life deals are available...
Stop trying to judge people on a list price of a bike you've not tried to buy.
Snobbery and reverse snobbery as as bad as each other.
Changed bearings on Bronson and the bolt was cross threaded. SC no problem after receipt new frame came two weeks later. Not a rear triangle, whole frame. Threaded BB brilliant, jungle here's my receipt new free bearings please etc etc. My next bike will be a SC. I demo quite a few before opting for SC. VPP was a bit of a revelation after being a confirmed 4 bar rider. Still happy 5 years in.
Milko9000 are you gonna be buying the new style Nomad or Bronson? If so, canny really help, I've not tried those.
I used to have a SB66 and have a Bronson V2, CC model, drop me a pm if ye want my nonsense thoughts on them... 😊
@milko9000. I’ve just sold my Bronson V2 frame and tried the Nomad V4 and the new V3 Bronson. Both very different bikes. The Nomad is very gravity orintated and does it extremely well, but for me it took the fun out of the trail. Yes you get to the bottom of the run extremely quickly, but it didn’t put a massive smile on my face. The V3 Bronson however was the most playful bike i’ve ridden. The new shock position makes it extremely planted in the corners, but allows you to pop off anything in your way. It also have the benefit of climbing extremely well too. SC change the frame designs every 3 years and it’s only the colours that change annually.
Was chatting to a mate today he loves the sand coloured nomad and I love the turquoise bronson, but we both agreed it’s has to be a Matt black frame as colours go out of fashion and the true sc oficianados will know it’s last seasons, maybe keeping to Matt black I don’t feel the need to upgrade. ;0)
Well Ive just ordered a Hightower C XE Build from Stif. 2018 model with 32% off. So I get to be a smug dentist without the premium pricing.
this, you can get a SC at a fair price if you are prepared to do the leg work.
in fact, I think anyone who pays RRP for a bike is daft
There are mega deals to be had when speaking to a good dealer.
Certainly this time of year. If anyone is in the market for a new SC, please feel free to drop me a PM.
Would love to look after fellow STWers
Many thanks to all that took the time to reply (and for keeping it relatively civil...) and largely based on the general positivity and love for the brand & customer service we decided to take the plunge on a Juliana for Mrs Ready, and I'm now furiously saving for a new Bronson!
Incidentally, I bought it from C6 bikes in Cambridge. Incredibly helpful, and knowledgeable, staff. Highly recommended! They even kept me smiling as I handed over the credit card... 🙂
Not read all of this thread, but I've now owned a Hightower for nearly 2 years. Is it the best riding bike i've ever owned? No, definitely not. Is it the best bike i've owned? absolutely.
I work in the trade and have had access to loads of bikes over the years, this is the only one I've kept for more than 6 months and the only one that has never broken. Its utterly brilliant. Really nicely put together, the bearing warranty is the icing on the cake, quick online form and new bearings in the post the next day.
Owning a bike is about the whole package for me, no point riding brilliantly if it breaks or bearings fail every few months (Mondraker) or the frame snaps (Mondraker and many others), or the components and ancillaries are rubbish quality - you know the bits I mean, cheap headset bearings, BBs, unbranded hubs etc.
The suspension on mine isn't the smoothest (upgraded shock vastly helped improve that), but it handles everything I do without complaint and just works where so many others have failed. and after nearly 2 years it still looks like new.
Only looking to sell mine so I can buy the LT version!
Did you see this Daver?
Yeah, if I hadn't spent several hundred on a factory dpx2 already I'd be all over that!
It's a shame they have such a terrible stock allocation for such a big company, mate of mine ordered the new Bronson frame about 6 weeks ago and still doesn't know when it will arrive in the country. Been told it could be as late as January.
I'd expect that from a small boutique company but not one that's been going for donkey's years.
thanks @nobeerinthefridge, I have sent a PM.
thanks also @chris36860 - did you notice much of a difference from Bronson 2 to 3? My mate's got the v1. Has it really been 6 years from him getting that (only out a couple of months at the time) to now?! Where does the time go, eh?
in terms of fun, I suppose I have to find out if getting down very quickly is what makes me giggle, or doing more fun stuff on the way there.
@milko9000 I only rode it for 40mins on a demo day, but noticed the difference in the down and technical trails. It seemed to climb just as well as the V2 but way far more sturdy and planted on the downs. The longer wheelbase really helps. I’m just over 6ft and the only two things I wanted to change about my V2 was a lower standover and a longer toptube. The V3 has sorted this almost as if SC heard what I was saying!! I had an email today from the SC rep as I collared him at Peaty’s gig Last week and he has told me that my frame is now in the country and will be with me this week!! I’ll let you know how it rides on longer stuff.
It’s a shame they have such a terrible stock allocation for such a big company,
Yeah, not great in that front, I ordered some reserve rims a month or so ago, still no idea when they will arrive.
Based on the difference from a MK2 Nomad (old style VPP linkage) to the MK3 Bronson link and it's like night and day!
They are always tough to get hold of, nomad v3 was the same, they prioritise the US market for sure. My mates shop sells em and even he gave up and got a Rallon instead.
Saying that, I once waited 10 months for a Cotic Rocket, and eventually gave up and bought a Yeti. 😂
They are always tough to get hold of, nomad v3 was the same
I ordered mine the morning it was announced, still took 2 months to arrive!
It tends to be a bit feast or famine with SC stock.
The new Primer Grey V3 Bronson is very special, especially with the reserve upgrade