[Closed] Santa Cruz - Are they really that good?

Go ride one, one of the easiest bikes to demo, make your own mind up 😉

Enjoyed riding all the ones I've owned and the fact they have lasted really really well. Also been a decent bunch to deal with when I have, always helpful and friendly.

https://www.jungleproducts.co.uk/dealers/santacruz/

Edit On price tag go compare against the top end spec bikes and see where they stand

Aye.

I have had a heckler, Blur, Nomad and V10. Everyone I've ridden has been great. Have all pedalled well and decended great. What makes it is the customer service.

What really

What really did it for me it's that I recently cracked my year and a bit out of warranty frame that I bought in Australia when I lived there, potentially by my own poor mechanic'ing of over tightening, and Jungle did me an incredible deal on a crash replacement frame above and beyond what I would expect from an importer without me doing more than saying hi at Ardrock and sending a speculative email.

Based on the treatment I have experienced and that the new Carbon frames have a lifetime warranty I can't see me ever going elsewhere.

Also lifetime warranty on bearings so zero maintenance costs if you can do them yourself.

Are you judging based purely on how a bike rides or all the other stuff too? lifetime warranty on bearings, excellent customer service, excellent warranty, hold their value exceptionally well...etc.

Yes. I bought my Nomad a few years ago and still love it.

I had a Canyon Strive and was perfectly happy with it until I made the costly mistake of demoing a Nomad. It was just better in every way. Climbed better, descended far better and after buying one I proceded to PB all my local trails I had been riding for years.

I have had 2 sets of bearings free from Santa Cruz (just showed my receipt) so some savings there.

Just ride one and see 😉

Oh and they have the added bonus that people will sneer at you on the trail too 😉

I don't think they're a million miles away from similar bikes these days (pricing).

I got my Hightower with a decent spec for around the same price I'd pay for a similar Specialized, Trek etc.

I've got it up for sale now as I wanted something lighter, but I keep looking at it sitting in my front room and I'm having second thoughts.... Just don't tell my missus 🙂

Still one of the best all round bikes I've ridden.  If I'd have stuck to my original plan and bought a Tallboy, that would have been perfect!

It’s all relative, they are definitely overpriced. But probably less so than a specialized, for example

It was the first bike to really put a smile on my face on the first turn of  the pedal.

I’d wanted one for a good few years, got a good deal on a 5010 frame 130mm travel front and back and it’s been great, not found any shortcomings yet, compared to my 2 canyons they are a country mile better in every way,

i managed to get a chameleon mk7 frame earlier this year ended up costing me £550 for the frame, crankset stem and headset, wheels, tyres and a rear they axle .. paid under £1200 for a D spec and sold off the bits I didn’t want..  santa Cruz can be very affordable if you shop around.. I ride it like a big kids bmx

Check out the Spanish authorised dealer on eBay

£2,500 for a carbon tallboy, still the latest model, although I expect they’ll be an update next season

I demoed a v1 Solo (as it was pre IP battle...) and declared that every other manufacturer should stop trying, as it wast perfect.

Bought one and 4 years later it still is the perfect trail bike. I’ll be buried with it I reckon

Frame material and finish is up there with the best but the ride and components can be found on many a bike that costs a lot less.

I’m on my 5th one when it arrives.  Yes they are expensive, but no more than the equivalent Yeti, intense, evil etc.  Build quality is second to none along with the paint finish.  Free bearings for life and a fantastic crash replacement programme.  I have just sold my Bronson v2 frame which was perfect until I demoed the V3 and fell in love with it. I’ve had plenty of other make and for me, nothing comes close.  I think they have priced their bikes very well with a Alu frame at £1800 including a life time warranty.

Took the plunge last year and got a Hightower. Best bike I have ever owned, period. Not had to try the customer service yet but they talk a good game with lifetime bearings chat.

I test rode the blur and nomad over a yes ago. On paper, I like the brand, the back up and support are great. I preferred the colours on the Juliana though.

However, technical climbing just didn't do it for me. The positive response under power, the surge if speed when peddling that others talk about just felt like the suspension extending and hooking up behind square edges to me.

Ended up on a DW bike rather than a VPP that felt more active and supple, more of the time.

Ended up on a DW bike rather than a VPP that felt more active and supple, more of the time

Pretty much the same experience as a mate who races Enduro and the odd DH race. You either get on with the sus action or you don't, my mate didn't and despite being offered a frame at cost (shop sponsor deal) he opted to go elsewhere at full whack. Not saying they aren't good bikes, but they don't suit everyone.

I demoed a v1 Solo (as it was pre IP battle…)

Battle being an overstatement 😉 Mate of mine who was a rocky and SC dealer at the time was smug to have an original Rocky Solo and a SC Solo in at the same time 🙂

Are they that much more expensive than any other top end carbon frame? An sworks enduro costs around 3k, an obrra rallon not much less. Granted the direct sales german bikes are far cheaper, but on the flip side check out the cost of a yeti

Is it worth it, if you can afford it then why not although I reckon the difference between a top end carbon bike and a alu vitus is probably far less noticeable than one would admit.

I've owned one santa cruz, a 2012 heckler and it was a bit meh, but I assume things are a bit better now. I also own a 3k yeti frame. It's nice but not vastly better than bikes iv e ridden at half the price

The way some people go on about suspension tune, ride quality etc on here you'd think stw is full of top riders.. I suspect that most are like me, bimblets who like to justify the costs of their ridiculously expensive bikes but in a blind test could not really tell the difference other than in the geometry.

I’ve owned one santa cruz, a 2012 heckler and it was a bit meh, but I assume things are a bit better now

Still not sure why they did a single pivot, vpp is so very different.and better.

The way some people go on about suspension tune, ride quality etc on here you’d think stw is full of top riders.

I went from my heckler to a blur lt the difference was incredible at the time, it was obvious and easy to spot, only downside was learning to jump properly as single pivot pop helped you out of bad technique

Depends what you like. These days Intense are significantly better value on paper due to the price shifts since they went direct and the official SC builds having stayed stodgy, sh*t and boring  but pricey). SC are a real proposition in frame only form but not as full build at list IMO.

As always, riding is needed and frame dynamics vs everything else is what is important.  SC have shown they stand behind their product in exemplary fashion.  You’d be pushed to find another mfr with the commitment to quality from that POV.

If you don’t like VPP bikes then almost any FS SC would be a very poor buy but if you do it becomes a matter of how much money for what...

I don't own a Santa Cruz but several of the people I ride with do and they've had mixed experiences with them. I demo'd one once and yeah it felt great, but my friends experiences with their customer service and build quality doesn't do them any favours.

One guy had cracked the rear triangle on his tallboy lt. He wasn't the first owner of it so they wouldn't replace that part of the frame. He wasn't expecting them too for free but they wouldn't even sell him one and wouldn't give a reason as to why. I get that they don't have to, but they could have been a lot more helpful.

Another friend has a 2018 tallboy that's made loud creaking noises ever since he got it a year ago. Been back to the shop several times for various rebuilds and he's going to get a new frame now, albeit in a totally different colour which will look out of place wth things like wheel/fork decals. Minor things but they matter to some. And if you're spending £6k on a bike that gives you a years worth of trouble, you could perhaps expect them to do a bit better.

I'm not saying either of the above would ever put me off owning one as there's a lot to like. But ownership to some I know has been a very mixed bag, just as it could be with any other make so perhaps doesn't justify the price premium.

That’s just it though these days isn’t it?  Is a £6k SC still ‘expensive’?  Obviously 6k is never cheap, it’s a big chunk of cash but it’s a much more common bike price than it used to be.  I had a bit of a thought experiment the other day and took a bunch of bikes from 2011 that I thought were bloody expensive at 2.5-3k then and they’re (or their equivalents) mostly in the £4.5k+ bracket now, some significantly so and others like Intense with relatively recent big drops.

There’s a reason SC don’t sell the non CC carbon frames as frame only I reckon...

The only negative of sc for me is they are common as muck at some events like ardrock, and sometimes it’s nice to be different from the crowd, I did have a young teenager shout ‘nice bike mate’ as he stood with his mates outside the local Lidl, worth it for that alone..

as with any premium brand some people get besotted, but you have to occasionally look elsewhere and not get sucked in. Marketing hype of a new model with a 2 degree different head angle and geo will not make me jump onto the newer models as a good bike is still a good bike, although maybe not the latest model

One guy had cracked the rear triangle on his tallboy lt. He wasn’t the first owner of it so they wouldn’t replace that part of the frame. He wasn’t expecting them too for free but they wouldn’t even sell him one and wouldn’t give a reason as to why. I get that they don’t have to, but they could have been a lot more helpful.

Snapped my rear triangle on my old V1 Nomad few years ago, I wasnt the original owner but Jungle couldnt have been much more helpful , eventually I decided it wasnt worth replacing, I bought the frame on  fleebay for £300 or something 18 month earlier.

Owned a V1 Bronson for 3 years, after 6 months I emailed Jungle asking for new bearings, explaining I didnt really need them at the moment, just wanted to have them handy, 3 days later they dropped through the door.

Currently have a Hightower Lt, absolutely love it, cant see me changing brands anytime soon tbh.

They’re no better or worse than similar bikes and you certainly don’t have to spend SC prices to get a bike as good or even better. I test rode a hightower a couple of years ago... it was a very very very good bike. No doubt about it. But I also rode my mates brand new Flare Max. Not much in it on weight and the Flare Max rode every bit as well. The high tower was a slight better climber, but I preferred and was faster on the Flare downhill. Both very equivalent bikes but the Flare Max was half the price.

if you have the dosh and want one because you like the brand then that is as good a reason to get one than any.

My mate has a Nomad and loves it, also after shopping around managed to get a good deal.

I don't currently own one for the first time in a very long time. (Mrsstu still has a Tallboy LTc)

Started with an original Heckler way back and had most of the different models of trail bike through the years up until selling my Hightower a couple of months ago.

The MK1 Nomad was proper ugly though.

I really don't think they are expensive when you look at the price of some other stuff out there.

Always found them brilliant to ride, easy to work on, well thought out and fantastic customer service.

Stiff/Jungle even refunded me for a bearing axle kit I bought from a shop that they said should have been a warranty claim.

Top service.

A very, very small point, but a threaded BB after a few bikes with PF is a simple pleasure.

I've had the Bronson for 20 month now, it's incredibly good, the one thing I was blown away by was the acceleration. Compared to both the Capra and Spectral 29 it replaced, it's a flying machine. Way more composed and so quicker descending than the Capra, quicker and comfier on all day pedals than the 29er ever was.

She's a keeper.

Had a Bronson 1 and Bronson 2.

The first one was brilliant. The best bike I had ever been on and felt instantly "right" on both ups and downs. Superb customer service, free bearings and when I cracked it, great back up in arranging a crash replacement.

V2 I just never gelled with. Probably more do to with my ineptitude trying to set it up right rather than the bike.

I wouldn't hesitate to get another SC if I needed another bike.

i kinda want one, they are lovely. but they are for non shredding dentists who can't manual aren't they?  joking*

*not joking

You been hanging out on pinkbike again?

Despite being a fair lump of cash, they are without doubt the most popular brand amongst the local MTBers. This bothers some people, apparently... 🙂

@tomhoward yes but only selling my wares via buysell/lifestyle/other/jizz

On the scheme of things, they aren't really *that expensive anymore, lots of other bands playing in the same price space, if your going frame only.

Ive heard only good things about CS that's a plus for them for me, and the std BB is another.

However, they seem to me to be pretty middle of the road with their geo's...

So for that reason alone, I don't think I would pick anything from their range just now, if they came out with a nomad 29er with geo similar to the new rocket max LS then id seriously consider it....

Im looking forward to demoing the new rocket, but have some scepticism about the single pivot steel option. coming from a carbon DW link super bike 😉

However, they seem to me to be pretty middle of the road with their geo’s…

It's always interesting on the geo front, if it's a good bike do the numbers make that different?

My 03 Heckler is probably my fave bike ever (long gone tho)

Ben on his HT LT pretty much sums it up for me....

in a nine minute video 🙂

Im looking forward to demoing the new rocket, but have some scepticism about the single pivot steel option. coming from a carbon DW link super bike

I suspect you're not totally serious, but if you are I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised.

re. SC - I agree they no longer stick out so much in terms of pricing and they appear to be better than most for finish and customer service - I'd have one over an Intense, Pivot, Yeti or other "high end" rivals.

When Spesh and Trek come in at the same price as SC, I'd certainly favour SC too... if I was minted and the geometry was what I wanted.

But it's not, as commented above they're a bit too conservative for what I'm after - a progressive but not totally radical geometry.

And even if I did want a more "normal" bike, it might be hard to see past YT.

However, they seem to me to be pretty middle of the road with their geo’s

Aye, but as Mike suggests, bikes are often ride greater or less than the sum of their numbers. I know a few folks that are obsessed by geo, suspension curves, pivot design etc. In general, they can't ride anywhere near as well as their words suggest they do. Definitely less than the sum of their opinions. 🙂

In general, they can’t ride anywhere near as well as their  expensive santa cruz bikes suggest they do

sorry i had to  🙂

There is absolutely a certain correlation between ATGNI-types and SC ownership, but it would have been childish to bring it up unprompted.

😀

However, technical climbing just didn’t do it for me. The positive response under power, the surge if speed when peddling that others talk about just felt like the suspension extending and hooking up behind square edges to me.

This is exactly how it felt to me when I tested a MK1 Bronson.  I also prefer DW bikes.  However, VPP has had a few iterations now so I'd be willing to demo again to see if anything has changed.

The warranty and customer service reputation of SantaCruz is definitely a draw for me.  Having had out of warranty (at just over 4 years) frame problems with 2 frames, I think I'll be prioritising a longer/lifetime frame warranty period next time.

In general, they can’t ride anywhere near as well as their  expensive santa cruz bikes suggest they do

None of them ride Santa Cruz though, as they all cite the same 'conservative' numbers as suggested on this! Then you see them on youtube and think, **** me, is that slowed down? 🙂

2 guys in particular I ride with ride Nomads, both rapid, both couldn't tell you what the numbers on their bike mean, never mind suspension curves!...

There is absolutely a certain correlation between ATGNI-types and SC ownership

As there is with all the best products in any sport, the world over.

I run a V2 Bronson C and I'm looking at getting a newer one soon. I always said I'd never get a carbon framed bike in case I stacked it and then you cannot see the damage inside compared to a good honest dent in an alloy frame but the ride is so good I'm past caring what happens to it. It's incredibly quiet, which if you've ridden carbon bikes which resonate, is a huge bonus. You really think your on a alloy frame. The geometry is spot on and the reason you see so many is because they are good. I remember many years ago at the beginning of the trail centre revolution seeing lots and lots of Turner 5 Spots and I wondered why until I bought one and loved it.

I did the DW thing with the newer 5 Spot and I've owned other VPP bikes in the past and there's very very little to chose between them and each has it's strength and weakness and both are very very good. As for Jungle and their help you cannot fault it and so if your thinking of getting one go for it and you won't be disappointed.

i did a local mountain bike challenge on my Lefty F29er last year (1100m of climbing 26 mile with quite a bit of link up road), i was very happy with the ride, it climbs like a beast

this year on my 3rd ride out on my 5010 with the suspension open on the offroad climbs and locked out on some longer road climbs, i took nearly 20 mins off my time, maybe it was a few degrees cooler, but both days were dry and my fitness similiar.

thats not bad for a bike that weighs at least 2kg more..

its slower on the road but offroad uphill i was amazed how it ate the climbs

Still not sure why they did a single pivot, vpp is so very <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">different.and</span> better.

because the company they bought it off hadn't invented it yet ??

Lifetime bearings is good but isn't that because they had an awful reputation at one point for eating through bearings ?

Lifetime bearings is good but isn’t that because they had an awful reputation at one point for eating through bearings ?

Lifetime came in about 12/13 I think?

My 12 Blur LTc needed 2 bearings in 6 years, they still had factory grease inside the links there as they were that well sealed.

From the people I know who have had them since then bearings are hardly mentioned.

Over hyped would be the more appropriate description.

From the people I know who have had them since then bearings are hardly mentioned.

I definitely remember lots of people complaining about it at one point in their history

Reassuringly expensive.

See also, Apple, Volkswagen, Festool and Stella etc. 😊

I had an original Heckler. Noodly flex machine it was. I suspect the newer ones are much better but they're not aimed at my budget.

They're nice looking bikes but it's highly doubtful that they're better than bikes that can be had much cheaper.

Seems to be a lot of talk about great warranty in previous posts. All good, but it would be nicer not to need it. I've never warrantied a bike, but have friends who have on other 'high-end' brands.

Lifetime bearings is good but isn’t that because they had an awful reputation at one point for eating through bearings ?

Dunno, before my time.

Yeti SB66, now that was bearing funtastic! 120 quid a set, and I could just about nurse them through 6 months per set. Brilliant bike to ride though, to be fair.

Seems to be a lot of talk about great warranty in previous posts. All good, but it would be nicer not to need it. I’ve never warrantied a bike, but have friends who have on other ‘high-end’ brands.

Considering how tough MTBing is on bikes, I'd far rather have a good warranty than wait for some pie in the sky brand that never breaks. Ain't gonna happen.

Stella

you mean mcartney right

Having come from a long line of Orange full suss bikes I demo'd a Tallboy LTc back in 2014. I was really disappointed to be honest as I expected it to feel super plush and whippet quick coming from my heavy and single pivot 5 29. It felt clumsy and nothing special at all. Saying that, the build wasn't the best and the 5 RS I tested at the same time had Pikes, which I hadn't tried before so it could have been a lot to do with the fork/shock on each.

Still on Orange now but wouldn't rule out demoing another though as I expect things have moved on.

A mate has the previous 5010. I would kill for it.

We hired a couple in Moab. Very impressive bikes. Just seemed to handle everything despite a lack of skill in the cockpit. Had a quick look online at prices and they didn't seem that crazy. Don't think I'll be getting one for christmas though.

I've had 2 Blur TRcs (26") each for a year, and had a 5010/Solo for 3 years (v1) so been riding a very similar bike for 5 years.

The suspension goes up and down, it's not the plushest as it stiffens under power and you get a bit of pedal kickback, but that means it accelerates quickly, horses for corses, you need a good rear shock to get the most out of them, I've had a Pushed Fox Float and now a DVO Topaz and those were both a big improvement on the stock RP23.

I change the bearings once a year, yes you can get more life out of them, but if you take the links apart and check the bearings you will notice they're getting rough. Changing them and cleaning everything PROPERLY takes 1-2 hours, or if you're a money bags pay a shop to do it.

I wouldn't buy one again, there's 8 bearings and 4 axles. When everything is done up righ and there's no play they're great, but if you feel a little bit of play in the linkage it can sometimes be hard to track down if it's a worn bushing, a worn bearing, or a loose axle. It is worth pointing out that the v1 solo has only M8 (8mm) axles, these are too lightweight and flexy, everything else since has M10 (10mm) axles so they may be a lot stiffer and more durable.

There is absolutely a certain correlation between ATGNI-types and SC ownership

It seems there's little middle ground with SC owners, either ATGNI or absolute pinners. I'm not good enough to be a pinner therefore I couldn't bring myself to buy one as I'd fall into the former category.

However, they seem to me to be pretty middle of the road with their geo’s

+1

Yes there is more to a bike than the numbers, but I have found I prefer longish slackish bikes. The medium 5010 I demo'd a few years ago felt cramped, I'm 5'7". However I noticed that the seat tube one the latest Bronson is short enough that I could just about size up to a large.

Stunning based on a demo. A hightower rode up a hill with no eagle & the seat far too low before I realised I was at the top. I normally push my bike up the same hill.

A bronson had immense precision, picked up speed downhill like nothing ive ever experienced  and gave me a level of confidence Ive never had on any other bike.

I want one. But am too tight to buy one. But will probably buy one anyway.

I had a 5010 v2 - it was fantastic, till I rode a Hightower but then I'm 6'4" and 29" wheels seem to suit me. My Hightower is XXL  - 505mm reach which is ideal.

It's always funny to see the jealousy from those that'll never be able to afford a Santa Cruz. 😂

Hightower LT is the best bike I've ever owned. In the alps I'd honestly say it was 95% as fast as my DH bike. My old Spesh Enduro and my Nukeproof mega felt out of their depth at times but the Hightower feels so plush and stable at full tilt down alpine runs that I've ridden hundreds of times. It's equally at home on mellower stuff, climbs brilliantly and barring a cheap standard headset I've not had a single problem with it

It’s always funny to see the jealousy from those that’ll never be able to afford a Santa Cruz

yes because when ever people negatively comment about somthing its because they can't afford it.  What you going to write next "haters gonna hate" or some other equally bullshit statement.

It’s always funny to see the jealousy from those that’ll never be able to afford a Santa Cruz.

it's always funny to see dickhead comments like this.

It would be even funnier if you drove an Audi...

The geometry off most Santa Cruz bikes is very conservative. Higher lt vs cube stereo 150 29er.... Near as dammit identical, reviews of cube mention it's short reach etc, but Santa Cruz seem to avoid this...

I'd say more Mondeo with a Ferrari price tag

reviews of cube mention it’s short reach etc, but Santa Cruz seem to avoid this…

Is that as most people of a normal height can probably ridr anything up to xxl in the high tower.

I can read numbers from a page, don't need a review to write them down for me.

Still the challenge there what's wrong with a conservative geometry if it works? That is the acid test for a bike.

Yeah, confusing comment above as the reason I demo'd the Tallboy was because I was considering buying one. If it makes you feel happy to think that way though go for your life.

It would be even funnier if you drove an Audi…

A six year old fiat😂

yes because when ever people negatively comment about somthing its because they can’t afford it.

Just think Ross, you could stack those shelves for half a year and maybe buy one reserve wheel😉

Just think Ross, you could stack those shelves for half a year and maybe buy one reserve wheel

I don't stack shelves  but my university teaching would pay for a nomad should I ever want one.

It’s always funny to see the jealousy from those that’ll never be able to afford a Santa Cruz

What an odd thing to say.

The last SC I had was the Nomad 3, which climbed like a pig. Went down alright, but the Reign I had after was a much better bike overall.

Ridden an HTLT, given how much it cost it was remarkably uninspiring to ride. Slack STA made it feel like a recumberant & short reach made it just feel weird. But then it was a bodge job to give them something a bit longer travel in the 29er market.

They don't make anything i would want to spend money on these days. Guess that makes me a jealous hater who can't afford one. 🙂

Gods gift to mincing, bang on queue....

I say no, most modern big brands are good, any brand new bike on a demo will always feel good. It must be impossible to pick a crap bike from SC, Giant, Spesh, Trek, YT, Canyon, Orange, Nukeproof, Cannondale, Transition, yeti, devinci, rocky mountain etc etc.
Surely it is based on colour, spec, preferences and what gives you the horn. The rest is marketing guff.

Look at the EWS which I think is a better measure of what we all aspire to.

Top teams in order:
Canyon, Ibis, Commencal, Cube, CRC (I assume nukeproof?), Rocky Mountain, GT, Trek,

SC-14th
Giant15th
Spesh 20th.

I don't think it means any are bad. But personally I would go big brand like spesh, giant, trek etc as they are likely best value and best warranty. SC are a level above in terms of price, and despite the anecdotes above, my local  (crawley/north downs) anecdotes are that SC are bad when it comes to warranty - but that might be to do with a certain shop where lots of ATGNI types buy SC from...

No way are SC poor with warranty,  as you allude to, more likely the shop.

Honestly not sure who is trolling and who not anymore...

I've had three SC bikes.

Really good "point and shoot" bikes which just seemed to plough through suitable terrain. Got me into some lazy habits.

However, not the best climbing or cornering bikes I've owned. Front end was very fond of lifting and chain snap-tastic particularly if you tried to shift while climbing.

Customer service was excellent. Would buy another when current bike is finished with. (prob a Hightower).

No idea if I'm a god, a mincer, a troll or a jealous hater these days now!

@hobnob if what you do is mincing, I’m giving up riding...

Is there a huge difference in feel/ weight/ flex/ behaviour etc between the alloy and carbon SC's? I'm a fan of alloy bikes but without demoing one of each material of the same bike, which is quite hard when sat behind a keyboard and no SC demo centres on my doorstep, I'm intrigued to see what others think/ have experienced?