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Local moorland fires caused by green laneing prats on their cross bikes . Wildlife and farm land destroyed .. really sad few days for local trails
Realistically, what would be the net result / effect of the damage ? Muirburn occurs across wide areas of moorland as a means of managing and re-energising some moorland areas. Ignoring the root cause of the fire, what would be the difference in this case ?
( OK, I do accept that the wildlife, nests etc would be affected ... but i'm asking in very general terms. )
In most cases its done for a reason , in this case it wasnt and the drain on local resources wild life and farmland has been massive at the moment . Local residents now asked to leave homes for heath reasons smoke across the district ... enough reason to be a bit aggrieved about it
Massive amount of smoke across Pennines right now. It’s like being in a volcanic eruption!
green laneing prats on their cross bikes
I didnt know the bikes breathed fire? Honestly though where has it said what caused the fire?
Impressive though, the smoke can now be seen from north Bradford.
Also I am sure the latest scientific research shows that burning moorland does it good, in fact they are always doing it on the moors around us
Also I am sure the latest scientific research shows that burning moorland does it good, in fact they are always doing it on the moors around us
That's so the grouse have young shoots to eat. Moor burning only really does good for shooting estates, keeps the grouse in food and limits biodiversity.
Group of surly youths setting fires by us last night - neighbourhood watch WhatsApp group was on ‘em like a shot!😂. Just been out on ‘bike patrol’ and all quiet tonight!
I did wonder what the smoke was that I could see yesterday. That was from north of Otley, West Yorkshire. Just seen it on the news
That’s so the grouse have young shoots to eat. Moor burning only really does good for shooting estates, keeps the grouse in food and limits biodiversity.
It’s far from ‘only’ being done by shooting estates. However, one of the key arts of burning moorland over centuries for sheep grazing and grouse has been the time of the burn - regular burning leads to a ‘light’ burn that rejuvenates quickly (indeed, research has shown that Heather in regions historically managed through fire by man appears to have evolved in a way where smoke improves germination)
if heather is left unmanaged (ie. not burned) then it becomes much more ‘woody’, fuel loads increase and when there is a fire it takes much longer to recover, often being replaced by bracken and woody shrubs with much lower species diversity (particularly in invertebrate and reptile species)
if heather is left unmanaged (ie. not burned) then it becomes much more ‘woody’, fuel loads increase and when there is a fire it takes much longer to recover, often being replaced by bracken and woody shrubs with much lower species diversity (particularly in invertebrate and reptile species)
I'll give you the point about it not just being shooting estates however the idea that it improves biodiversity is just nonsense peddled by the game shooting lobby. Without moor burning we'd have something closer to natural climax vegetation like mixed woodland which is far more diverse. Burning also has a negative impact on flooding and water management.
There are studies out there which purport to show that burning improves biodiversity but dig a little deeper and you tend to find that they only refer to certain species or small areas or compare burned moor with areas that have been left unburned for a few years rather than over a long period.
And that’s from someone who loathes motorbikes and off roaders
Motorbikes in general, or just the off-road sort?
Just the off-road sort, presumably, which is a bit rich coming from someone who, well, rides off-road...
Without moor burning we’d have something closer to natural climax vegetation like mixed woodland which is far more diverse
No, we wouldn’t - in fact if you look at what is happening in the lowland heaths we’re spending millions reverting it to a sub climax community in order to increase biodiversity. Ie. We are out there spending money on felling trees, clearing scrub, reintroducing grazing and trying to reestablish heather cover.
And one of the key threats to this is wildfire due to the huge fuel load from scrub
At this time of year the fire will penetrate deep into the peat and smoulder for weeks until the Autumn rain. When estates burn heather they do it when the ground is too damp to catch fire.
Motorbikes in general, or just the off-road sort?
Define off-road. If we mean riding a legally owned, taxed, insured motorbike on an unsealed byway open to all traffic then that is still a road. If the OP doesn’t like that fact then it’s sort of tough. I’m not a fan of the restriction of countryside access. There’s enough of it to go round. Responsible riding like that advocated by the regional TRF groups shouldn’t be demonised. I’d also wager more moorland fires have been started by walkers and campers than any other acticitvies combined.
Feel sorry for the folk who've had to be evacuated (as per Esme's post ) and the firefighters who've been struggling with it since Sunday.
But by all means have a conversation justifying your off road vehicle of choice, or controversial moorland conservation method.
Great I only live a few mile down the road, I left some washing out while I was in the Lakes.
Sad times though that moorland fire looks like it'll keep going for a while. 😓
No, we wouldn’t – in fact if you look at what is happening in the lowland heaths we’re spending millions reverting it to a sub climax community in order to increase biodiversity. Ie. We are out there spending money on felling trees, clearing scrub, reintroducing grazing and trying to reestablish heather cover.
You're agreeing with my first point there in that stopping burning leads to climax vegetation rather than the current plagioclimax. The point of disagreement is whether burning, tree felling etc leads to improved biodiversity.
I don't really know much about lowland heaths but in the highlands where I live stopping burning leads to woodland regeneration and a wider spread of species rather than the monoculture of heather moorland. Is there really a biodiversity driven program to remove tree cover in the areas you mention? It would seem to go against all I've heard and read.
OK a bit of googling reveals we're really talking at cross purposes here. Lowland heath and upland moor are two very different habitats and what's true of one may not be true of the other.
I saw this on the news today; interesting because we've been having similar but on a much smaller scale in my area recently (military areas and common lands - 4 or 5 in the last week or so) and in general the recovery and rejuvenation is surprisingly quick. But Saddleworth is a MUCH larger scale.
Have some posts been deleted? Has there been a suggestion that green laners / off-roaders caused it?
Realistically, what would be the net result / effect of the damage ?
I sacked off a bike ride as the air around Oldham just made me cough as soon as i got going.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Muirburn occurs across wide areas of moorland as a means of managing and re-energising some moorland areas. Ignoring the root cause of the fire, what would be the difference in this case ?</span>
As said above, its only good if want to achieve moorland. Left to its own devices most upland would eventually revert to woodland.
I'm surprised its allowed to continue TBH. Even if it can't be stopped under planning permission rules (its not cutting a tree down its stopping it growing in the first place), surely it must fall foul of emissions legislation and the health and safety at work act given that everyone NW of Manchester is currently breathing in the particulates? If it was fined like any other industry would be it would soon make grouse moors unprofitable.
Could just as easily been caused by a biker/walker/car driver leaving a glass bottle or flicking a tab end. Moor fires happen but due to the poor summers recently we've not seen a big one for a while. Sat at work fully expecting to be called out to the NYM before long.
Of course if people are being evacuated and having their property threatened it's not very nice but outside that I'd not worry too much as it happens regularly just on a smaller scale and the land will recover.
Leon Parkes, the assistant chief fire officer with Greater Manchester fire and rescue service ... said it had not been established what might have caused the fire.
From The Grauniad. No solid evidence that it's MXers or green laners that I can see from any reliable sources so far.
We could see the plume from Pendle Hill on Monday night and it's got worse since then. It's really smoky over in Holmfirth this morning, which is miles away over the other side of the hills, and worryingly means the wind has swung round and is blowing the fire over towards the massive open areas of moorland towards Black Hill rather than towards the western edge where it would burn out naturally.
[Edit: although the weather forecast seems to be showing it's swung back round again this morning so that's good.]
The wind has changed at the moment and the fire seems to be spreading further into the Black moor away from the houses around Carrbrook, 26 houses were evacuated early yesterday evening as smoke was a concern with fires close to Castle Lane (at least my KOM is safe for a few more days ) . I do know there has been arguments with walkers and riders in the area from land owners who have put signs up saying no walking /riding due to Grouse breeding. Speculation could be made towards land owners blaming others to hide miss deeds/burning to allow further breeding in the future ?>? but I wouldn't point a finger that way
As said above, its only good if want to achieve moorland. Left to its own devices most upland would eventually revert to woodland.
Nail on the head. I wonder for how long people are going tolerate the effects of both flood and fire which are the direct result of the grouse shooting industry? It's incredible that such a damaging industry is allowed to exist at all considering the tiny number of people it benefits and the huge number of people it affects.
My kids' school was almost evacuated yesterday after a garden that backs onto the playground spontaneously caught fire. They had a huge pile of leaves that hadn't been dealt with and it seems that this is where it started. The fire brigade managed to put it out before it spread to buildings (or the school), but it was a stark warning about just how dry everything is just at the moment and how little it takes to start a fire.
The owners were pretty shocked when they returned home to find two fire engines and hoses snaked all around their house. I guess they were probably pretty relieved to know that no real damage had been done.
Ref motorbikes this hamfisted facebook post (paragraph 3) from local plod didn't exactly help...
I do know there has been arguments with walkers and riders in the area from land owners who have put signs up saying no walking /riding due to Grouse breeding
<OT rant>It really is about time these land owners and their archaic and aristocratic tendencies got told to foxtrot-oscar. Move on. Open a boutique gin factory but take your fat red face, your matching olive tweed, your love for firearms and your fleet of Range Rovers and get lost.</OT rant>
@Scuttler .. sorry I think you miss understood the area in question DOES have bridal and fire road and footpath access for all to use but they have taken it upon themselves to try to restrict access for those using said routes
Steve - I think we're in agreement. The point is these ****s lord it up over vast amounts of Britain in order to justify their tenuous existence. They would absolutely love nothing more than the public to be nowhere near 'their' land but with CROW etc it's become increasingly difficult. I got the flick from a gamekeeper once because where we were cheekily riding was an SSSI. That particular SSSI 'pocket' of land is the one below. I just can't ****ing stand these people and that's before we start on the morality of single-use 'land management' and breeding animals to shoot at.
Totally with scuttler. The bastards even have the nerve to claim govt subsidies for grouse shooting!
Thing is Scutter the local Ranger/warden is known to me and other riders up there and has explained as such ..also saying he really doesn't mind us being up there as weve been doing it for years now ... I mean god forbid we ride on land that we are legally allowed to do so on ... insert Kes image style two fingers !!
A Chinook flew over my house in Stainland about an hour ago heading due south - maybe the Army doing a recce?
It was only about 150ft above the village and was a pleasure to hear the noisy bugger so close!
According to teams on the ground the Chinnock is en route from Ireland with couple of industrial pumps to aid the extra 50 fire persons drafted in to help, The wall of smoke as you pass the Carrbrook village sign is just that dense breath draining.