[Closed] Sad news...cyclists down

Ouch - fingers crossed for the injured parties

and the damage to the car is the headline, FFS

It’s a colleagues riding buddies, evidently there was a bigger group of them but only 4 of them actually hit the car that pulled out in front of them, they were travelling approx 20mph, other riders ploughed into the back of each other etc The most injured chap has a broken collar bone, snapped shoulder and 6 broken ribs iirc (but is well enough to be posting on Facebook.)

Be a hell of an insurance claim...

When journalists use the word "accident" in these kind of stories... 👿

That whole article smells of journalist desperately trying to find a way of blaming the cyclists but failing. It comes to something when the damage to a car is considered a better headline than human with life threatening injuries after collision with lump of metal that's easily replaced.

Hope those involved heal up quick.

Edit. I won't distract by opening that can of worms over a point of language. 🙂

I think the damage to car headline reads to me as an attempt to show how bad the accident was, as if to say "if this is what the car and bikes look like.....".

Fingers crossed for a speed recovery for everyone involved 🙁

I just hate that word because of the connotations it carries around unavoidability/lack of culpability and encapsulates the ridiculous lack of accountability that drivers enjoy in a world where all other operators of heavy dangerous machinery are subject to health and safety rules and penalties for not complying with them.

Anyway, sorry, this isn't the thread for it. Best wishes to the guys and a speedy recover and glad the victims aren't even more seriously hurt.

Ouch! 😯

GWS all involved.

From what I've read online they are all ok, the road in question the driver would have had the sun in his eyes turning right across the cyclists he/she clearly misjudged the speed of the cyclists. It's a fast road and virtually flat from the crematorium onwards and then a favourable gradient, hence the damage..

One thing I noticed the bike with disc brakes came of better than the rim brakes, the roads where wet Saturday.

the road in question the driver would have had the sun in his eyes

Are you preparing the defence for the driver.

That's "momentary inattention, totally out of character"

That's if it ever results in a prosecution

@kerley not at all, but we all know that will be the excuse.
As cyclists and car drivers we tend to give more room and don't make silly decisions when bikes are near, other drivers think, must overtake, must cross the road ahead of cyclists etc etc

I don't often see the 3RT riders out it's usually the HSW around these parts that swarm in packs ;0)

>>>joB

and the damage to the car is the headline, FFS

Also, one common meaning of "accident" is "something that was not intentional". This is the main meaning it has in the case of Road Traffic Accidents. Use of the word does not imply "nobody's fault".

I think the journalist did a reasonable job here.

Yeah, thats what I said earlier. And agree aboht use of the phrase "accident". Bit of STW perception bias going on.

Greyspoke for many years the phrase Road traffic accident has not been used by emergency services it was changed to Road traffic collision, now known as rtc as opposed to rta.

Someone is always at fault, otherwise a collision would not have occurred, regardless of whether it was intentional or not

The whole of that news site seems to be framed in a clickbaity 'You won't believe this picture of a smashed up car' type way.

I guess they figure that their average reader will be more likely to click through to see a mangled windscreen than be concerned about potentially 'life-changing injuries' to a cyclist.

The whole article thereafter is about the seriousness of the collision, the injuries to the cyclists and the fact that the police are investigating.

It's really about erasing the driver from the events. You quoted one prime piece of absolution yourself: "a car was in an accident with four cyclists". Then there's the police statement, which uses some well-worn techniques to remove the driver from the equation: "A black Volkswagen Golf travelling along Clough Lane towards Fixby was turning right into Lightridge Road when it has been involved in a collision with a group of cyclists travelling in the opposite direction."

Also, one common meaning of "accident" is "something that was not intentional". This is the main meaning it has in the case of Road Traffic Accidents. Use of the word does not imply "nobody's fault".

I realise I'm about to sound pompous here, but really, many people have had this conversation many times before, in great depth, and the upshot is that it's widely recognised that "accident" is not the most suitable word to use. "Incident" and "collision" are both better. Most if not all police forces have dropped the use of "accident" accordingly.

I think the journalist did a reasonable job here.

They did a very good job: of sticking to industry practice and removing the driver from the report completely. He or she is not mentioned once.

Jo's comment isn't paranoia at all. It's how reporting works.

I hope the lads are ok, Ive seen some of the 3RT lads out (i dont do road myself) and they are generally fast and good riders.

I came into work yesterday to be told by a colleague that it was obviously the cyclists fault and they all us cyclists are the same. FFS boils my piss

As Bez rightly states, we've worn this debate to death so I'll try not to labour it, but for balance the word "accident" does have a dictionary, and widely used, definition (see ROSPA website etc. etc.) and the meaning of the word does NOT include that it was unforeseeable, unavoidable or not someone's fault.

That some people choose to interpret the word to mean something else or additional does not make it so.

Yes, language changes and evolves, but this word has not changed it's meaning - it's not like "gay" or "spam"

Not looking for (another) argument on the subject so I'm leaving it at that.

EDIT: And GWS to the riders

If anyone local to Hudds wants to do something useful, please do contact the newspaper's editor and calmly point out the inappropriateness of leading with a damaged windscreen vs. life-threatening injuries.

And explain the problematic use of the word "accident".

No need to be nasty about it, and it helps to explain you're local and usually respect the paper.

I came into work yesterday to be told by a colleague that it was obviously the cyclists fault and they all us cyclists are the same.

Try right-hooking your colleague then blaming it on him/her. Perhaps the sun was in your eyes or you just didn't see him/her. Either way, not your fault.

I am aware of the other words that can be used.

I haven't heard the "driver written out of the story" one before.

Tell you what, why don't you have a go at re-writing it?

inappropriateness of leading with a damaged windscreen

As others have commented, I don't think the image is a problem - it's a powerful one and presents the horror of being hit by a fast moving car rather well imho.

Much more fertile ground if you want to give feedback I reckon is the passive / active protagonists in the reporting as per Bez's comments - "a car" as opposed to "cyclists" - any driver to be seen anywhere?

I came into work yesterday to be told by a colleague that it was obviously the cyclists fault and they all us cyclists are the same.

There's an effect which has been measured by multiple and varied studies, which is that people are inclined to attribute responsibility to what has been placed foremost in their attention, and not to what has been removed from it.

The reason people make noise about drivers being removed from articles such as this is precisely that.

It's not "paranoia" or "STW perception bias". This is real, known, measurable stuff.

driver written out of the story

The ones I love are where they go so far as to give the vehicle agency in the process e.g. "the car decided to turn right" - not in this one but it does happen surprisingly often.

Interesting piece on the positive action in Seattle a while back regarding the use of wording: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/02/dont-say-cyclists-say-people-on-bikes/385387/

[i]A black Volkswagen Golf travelling along Clough Lane towards Fixby was turning right into Lightridge Road when it has been involved in a collision with a group of cyclists travelling in the opposite direction.[/i]

Doesn't take Poirot to work this one out.
Hope the riders are ok and the law comes down hard on "whoever" is at fault.

Tell you what, why don't you have a go at re-writing it?

Because I've got other things I need to be doing. Why don't you do some googling or try out a book by Taylor and Fiske or Cialdini or something?

https://beyondthekerb.org.uk/when-words-collide/
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/an-interactive-guide-to-ambiguous-grammar
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Social-Cognition-Susan-T-Fiske/dp/1473969301
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pre-Suasion-Revolutionary-Way-Influence-Persuade/dp/1847941435

The riders are friends of mine & we're loosely part of the same riding group (they're the way more organised road "arm"!)

Happy to say they'll all make a recovery - the guy who made the hole in the windscreen came off better than the damage would suggest (broken wrist, a back injury and a bash to the head). The most seriously injured rider is on the mend having been operated on yesterday.

I won't say anything else as there will obviously be an accident investigation etc.

Glad to hear it's not more serious. Nasty stuff, though. Mend soon.

It's really about erasing the driver from the events. You quoted one prime piece of absolution yourself: "a car was in an accident with four cyclists". 

I completely agree. You realise how ridulous it actually is when you reverse it-

"A driver was in an accident with four bicycles."

It doesn't even make sense!

Glad all the riders will recover. Thanks for the clarification Bez. Fair comments.

Huddersfield drivers are just ****ing awful, it's bad enough in a car sometimes - shit like this is why I avoid road riding round here as far as possible, even on club runs I don't feel remotely safe. Hope these riders all heal up fast. 🙁

If you can't see a group of cyclists approaching you are not fit for the road and need your license reassed

Why the hell are they "seeking" contact with the van driver that was behind the golf! What selfish twunt drives away from a situation like that!

If you can't see a group of cyclists approaching you are not fit for the road and need your license reassed

Does that mean "Stuck up your ***"? Twice?

If so I have to agree. 😉

9 AM crash? I bet the windscreen of the car was misted up.

rmacattack - Member
If you can't see a group of cyclists approaching you are not fit for the road and need your license reassed

Clearly you haven't driven around hudds / bradford. The standard of driving is shocking. Especially from "professional drivers".

Not just bad but really really bad. On many occasions ive been worried for my life in the back of taxis etc.

[s]Huddersfield [/s]drivers are just **** awful, it's bad enough in a car sometimes - shit like this is why I avoid road riding round here as far as possible, even on club runs I don't feel remotely safe. Hope these riders all heal up fast.

FTFY

FTFY

I dunno. I'm West Yorkshire born and bred, but I'd still say we have more than our fair share of arseholes around here. I'm sure there's worse places in England, but there are definitely a lot of better places too, in my experience.

"I didnt see the 15 cyclists coming guv!"

No doubt the driver will get away with it.

I dunno. I'm West Yorkshire born and bred, but I'd still say we have more than our fair share of arseholes around here. I'm sure there's worse places in England, but there are definitely a lot of better places too, in my experience.

Also WY born and bred. But I also lived in that there London for a bit. The drivers up here are definitely not the worst!

Having driven from holmfirth to saltaire for 3 years in an old job I can categorically say bradford drivers are worse, and in an uber cab in London a month ago, its no better in the capital

Ps. The main writer for the Huddersfield examiner is named Wayne Anchor ;0)
It is part of the mirror group hence clickbait sh1te

I'm not saying they're the worst, just that they're very shit in comparison with much of the UK - although I have lived and driven in London for a few years too. I honestly found driving in London less unpleasant than W Yorks at rush hour, weirdly enough. It's more aggressive and complicated, but people are actually using their brains more as a result.

Anyway, I've derailed this thread, sorry, will shut up now. Hope the riders mend up quick, as I said, and I hope they throw the book at the idiot driver responsible.

the road in question the driver would have had the sun in his eyes

I long for the day when a judge says "if you couldn't see where you were going, you should've stopped".

I long for the day when a judge says "if you couldn't see where you were going, you should've stopped".

Riding in Hebden bridge Saturday morning,there wasn't any sign of the sun there

I won't say anything else as there will obviously be an accident investigation etc.

Possibly the most sensible thing I've read on this type of thread in years

Ps. The [s]main writer [/s] [b]editor[/b] for the Huddersfield examiner is named Wayne Anchor

FTFY