[Closed] Running out of gears

Goat link or similar would extend the range. I’m running a 10 speed xt mech with the same theoretical capacity as yours with an 11-42 sunrace and a goat link and it shifts fine with no issues. I expect it would clear a 46t cog
Edit to explain goat link replaces the knuckle on the mech.

To some extent there is a bit of Rule #5. When I moved to 1x10 I struggled for a month or so then I just got used to it. These days with 1x10 32T up front 11-40T rear I'm rarely using 11, 36 or 40T cogs, this is Dales, Lakes and Scotland. Usually by the time I'm using the 40T I'm close to off and walking no matter what gearing I'd be using.

You can usually go 2-4 teeth beyond what Shimano state in their docs regarding capacity, etc. They are very conservative with a small 'c'.

Cassette Extender - before wide range cassettes became widely available you'd remove one of the smaller cogs, usually the 16T or 17T and substitute the 40T or 42T extender at the back so you still had ten ratios, they were just different. Little need these days.

Goat links are different mounts for your derailleur that allow shorter mechs to work with large cogs on your cassette.

32T, and 11-42 here, as whitestone says, keep at it, you'll get used to it.

*awaits the front mech brigade....

If you can change the freehub to microspline or xd, a 10t small cog gives a substantial increase in range.

Goat link:
https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/goatlink

There are similar things you can get on ebay, just search for "rear mech extender".

I used a goat link with 11-46 on a 10 speed for a while, it was fine. Eventually I put an 11 speed XT rear mech on (which has a close enough pull ratio to let it work tolerably well) and now completely 11 speed.

awaits the front mech brigade

Obviously, you need another bike, one with a 2x drivetrain. Or you could just ride what you have and get used to it.

Thanks all.

Looks like it already has a variant of a goat link; I assumed it was part of the new-age mech!

Also, point noted ref get used to it. I’ll do that for now.

The thing with mountain biking is you will find yourself riding extremes. Now and again you get the odd slightly downhill easy bit - where you may just spin out. Of course some road bits where that's likely to happen. More often than not there will be a close to vertical climb.

Basically pick the range that suits your ability / likes and local terrain. Dont forget, its a mountain bike, so Id ignore spinning out on the road.

Personally I gear my bikes for the climbs, as that the challenge I enjoy and to me that's the point of a mountain bike. The off-road downhills when they are techy are fun to freewheel down, the road, well leave that to the road bikes.

Id leave it as it is, or perhaps consider picking a front ring to suit. Thats both easy and cheap. Try that first before anything else. Remember, whatever you do will involve some compromise (or spinning like a hamster or grunting like a wrestler)

What you seem to have there is what we call an inappropriate tool for the job. Still, be happy in the knowledge that the marketing Kool-aid must have been very tasty.

30 with a 10-42 and I wouldn't mind a spinnier gear at times but have a 28 that I swap on for trips involving longer winching sessions.

That may well be standard mech. Certainly looks like a normal Shimano knuckle

Thanks docrobster - could well be. Just realised the goat link replaces the knuckle and is not an additional part (ie the new-age mech i referred to isn’t new age and we still use knuckles otherwise it wouldn’t work would it (face palm).

I’ll leave it until I work out what I need gear wise regarding my local/intended use, then stick a groupset on my Christmas list once I’ve got 6 months under my belt. That may be 1x12 or I’ve seen today 1x13, or maybe no change if it’s not needed once I’m used to it.

Appreciate a 36t max rear mech is the wrong tool for the job but if it works, doesn’t cause damage to chain/cassette/mech then it’s fine, isn’t it? Maybe a little like running it at 110% capacity so may wear marginally quicker I guess? But if it’s not a significant issue - which it doesn’t seem to be - I’ll leave it alone. If it is an issue I’ll get a goat link as suggested above.

Learning so much from this forum. All good stuff too. Thanks all!

*awaits the front mech brigade….

Something something some bawbag keeps dragging it up 😉

TBH I'd probably be pushing round about that stage. Get used to it first and see how you do, I used to be able to beast up the hills around Glasgow Uni on a 39-18. It's possible, just a case of pushing yourself.

Schlumpf drive? Or greasy finger shifter?

You get extra range by using an 11 speed shimano mech (on your 10 speed set-up), i'm doing this and it works just fine.

Sunrace do an 11-46 casette which would give larger range, but with slightly bigger jumps.

30x11 @ 120rpm on 650b/2.35 works out at 27mph - how often do you need to pedal at that speed? Going to a 10t at that cadence takes you to just shy of 30mph. If you need that on the flat, why aren't you pro!?

I run 30t with 10-42t 11sp and have done for 3 years - can probably count on both hands the number of times I've used the 10t in anger, but I tend to use road downhills for recovery if at all.. 😉

I've never found myself running out of gears at the top end on a 32/10, did 52.6kph at the weekend on a road section and tbh that was fast enough, just tuck a little bit and you'd increase speed. In fact I've maybe used the 10t once or twice, if that.

Running out of gears at the bottom end though, yes. At the end of a long day, legs shot, and a wall of stone in front of me, I'd have been glad for something lower than the 32/50 on my 29er. Might swap the chainring for a 30t oval at some point.

Looks like it already has a variant of a goat link; I assumed it was part of the new-age mech

It is part of the mech. Goat link is just a slightly longer one, I think.

Stealth granny for that 'i can't go on!' emergency

10t requires a whole much bigger hardware change though, normal shimano pattern only goes to 11t.

Why did that even need pointed out?

I’d worry less about spinning out on the road and concentrate on having a low enough gear for big hills or when you’re tiring at the end of the day - after all it is a mountain bike.

Cheapest non bodge way is to go 11 speed shimano and pick up an 11-46 cassette and the appropriate mech and shifter imo. You may even be able to stretch that mech capacity to 11-48 or 11-50 if Sunrace make one.

Sram 12 speed realistically needs a new XD freehub (if you can get one for your wheel) to use their better quality cassettes and you should probably avoid sram SX or NX as they aren’t very good quality. Same for Shimano - their 12 speed cassette need a new freehub.

Cheapest non bodge way is to go 11 speed shimano and pick up an 11-46 cassette and the appropriate mech and shifter imo

Or a shimano 11sp 11-51 cassette

What Trimix said. In mtb you're working from the extremes.

With most people transporting their bikes by car, the top end on the road hasn't been so important, but I expect the growth of interest in gravel bikes will make this more of a problem because there will be a demand for gearing at both ends of the range.

I haven't a clue how this will be solved other than a reversion to triples or wider gaps between gears.

I have another suggestion though. Extend your range.

Get a singlespeed as a N+1 and give it plenty use.

Shortly you'll find your range of cadence at which you can exert meaningful power and how long you can maintain it will increase. You'll almost certainly increase your ability to hold a high cadence. In other words your body will adapt, and then it will benefit your geared riding.

Of course, that's just IMO, and not based on science. It's just what I have done for a very long time.

And a warning, SS is addictive.

I was watching a hardtail review and the guy made a fair point. If what you have suits 90% of your riding don’t be concerned with trying to also meet the remaining 10%.

You’ve clearly not been riding so aren’t bike fit at all, instead of spending ages and money trying to fix a non problem just ride more and you’ll get stronger.

What you seem to have there is what we call an inappropriate tool for the job

There are, after all, bigger cassettes out there that'll have a larger range.

Get a singlespeed as a N+1 and give it plenty use.

Shortly you’ll find your range of cadence at which you can exert meaningful power and how long you can maintain it will increase. You’ll almost certainly increase your ability to hold a high cadence. In other words your body will adapt, and then it will benefit your geared riding.

Of course, that’s just IMO, and not based on science. It’s just what I have done for a very long time.

And a warning, SS is addictive.

Oh, so very true! I converted my fat bike from 1x10 to 1x1 about ten days ago (I'd had a SS On-One Pompetamine for a while and sort of miss it) and promptly set some PRs on it! There are gradients that (currently) I just can't get up so have to walk those but it won't take long to get stronger.

If what you have suits 90% of your riding don’t be concerned with trying to also meet the remaining 10%.

This. Even with the "limited" range of 11-40T most of my usage is in the 15-32T middle of that block, i.e. the top two and bottom two gears don't get much use. The times that the bottom end does get use is on long draggy climbs - the Llandegla fire road is short in this context - where you'll be pedalling for half an hour or more.

When I went 1x I did a lot of comparisons and overthinking things. A 1x10 setup with an 11-40T cassette loses approximately three ratios in range when compared to a 3x9 drivetrain but I didn't use those ratios anyway so I'm not limiting myself.

As @idiotdogbrain says, you are going pro peloton speeds spinning out at 120rpm on the common 1x setups. I suspect many of these "spinning out" moans are from people trying to catch up with their mates who've carried speed better into a downhill section.

Get a singlespeed as a N+1 and give it plenty use.

Shortly you’ll find your range of cadence at which you can exert meaningful power and how long you can maintain it will increase. You’ll almost certainly increase your ability to hold a high cadence. In other words your body will adapt, and then it will benefit your geared riding.

Of course, that’s just IMO, and not based on science. It’s just what I have done for a very long time.

And a warning, SS is addictive.

Oh, so very true! I converted my fat bike from 1×10 to 1×1 about ten days ago (I’d had a SS On-One Pompetamine for a while and sort of miss it) and promptly set some PRs on it! There are gradients that (currently) I just can’t get up so have to walk those but it won’t take long to get stronger.

Damn, I fancy building a SS now. Leg strength to be able to cope with multiple days of rides with big climbs is something I want to focus on, sounds like a SS could do that...

This website is your friend:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

It is tempting to get bigger and bigger pie sized cassettes or look to new shiny things for an easy answer but the hills do not stop being hard. You just go slower. Or struggle for traction on any kind of loose surface. Or go so slow you may as well crawl up 🙂 Did I mention you just go more slowly and still suffer because hills are hard?

A SS really is a great tool for teaching you what you and a bike can do if you put your mind to it. All of epicyclo's points are spot on. You don't even need a new bike, just choose a gear and force yourself to stick to it for an hour's ride with a few hills then extend what you aim to ride. 30-19 or 30-18 would be a good start. A few months of "SS" and it stays in your legs for all the geared rides 😀

OP, I posted something very similar to this previously. And indeed disagree with most of what is written above, apart from Simon's bit

Or a shimano 11sp 11-51 cassette

To cut a long story short, get the 11-51 cassette and the new big Deore derailleur. I had both in my basket on Dikediscount.de yesterday for around £90, but in the end decided to try to get a new bike instead (but that's a different story)

IF, like me and the other poster above, you're genuinely in it for the uphills and big long days then the 46t mentioned by people above will not be enough. Also, switching to 30t at the front will not be enough (assuming you're on a 29er). I know this because I run 30t front and 46 back and it's too high for what I want/need.
Also, assuming your front setup is Shimano like your rear then you may not be able to get a 28t for the front. Ridiculous but true, the Shimano SLX spider won't take rings lower than 30t. And yet they fit the ****ing thing on supposed Marathon bikes.

Which leaves you with the choices
* Buy a new chainset which takes 28t and get a 46 t cassette
* Buy the 10-51 Deore mech and cassette
* Go 12 speed at great cost
* Go 2x or 3x

Let the flaming begin from the IfI'mNotGoingFasterThanWalkingSpeedThenWhat'sThePointOfRidingItAnymore and You'reJustAnUnfitPunterIGetByInTheHimalaysWith53TeethOnThefrontAnd11-25OnTheBackYouBigPussy brigades

No flaming @thegeneralist, not everything works all the time for everyone. There's no way I'd go 1x on my road bike for example.

Given that Shimano came up with Centrelock for disk rotors I'm surprised they didn't do something similar to RaceFace's Cinch for the chainring. With a 104BCD spider I can fit a 30T oval chainring but have to use different bolts to do so because otherwise the shorter radius fouls the chain! With the Aeffect cranks on my fat bike and my full suss I can fit any size chainring I want - the fat bike currently has a 26T oval on it for example.

@ta11pau1 - SS also forces you to look at how to carry speed since 93.2% of the time* you are in the wrong gear. The other thing with SS is that once the gradient rises above a certain point you are forced to stand to pedal so you get a feel for just where the balance point is that gives you the best traction. In these scenarios cadence is irrelevant - you don't maintain a "cadence" of 100rpm going up a flight of stairs do you? Sorry, way off-topic now 😊

*from a survey of 1. Results are not publicly available.

I've been running 1x since about '09 when all the dinner plate cassette, and wide/narrow chainrings didn't exist. I went from SS to a 9 speed cassette as if just made for a more versatile bike. The 10, then 11 speed, and now 12sp I've always thought that I'd never need a bigger toothed cassette, and every time I've fitted one I've used it.

Sage advice from thegeneralist, go for a 11-51 cassette and a Deore mech. Job jobbed.

Thanks again everyone!

Few clarifying points

1) I’m not fit. I’m not fat, but I’m a long way from fit (asthma, quitting smoker etc. Resting heart rate approx 65, max 182 but I get there quickly and recover slowly - work in progress and hence the bike).

2) I used to ride XC and enjoy going up as much as I enjoy going down.

3) I’ve just bought an orange P7 29er (130mm fox rhythm 34) so it should go downwards really well, upwards likely more difficult (which made me think I Might want more low ratio gears).

4) Went for a 23 mile xc ride with a mate on his Whyte G170 at the weekend. He has a seemingly huge range cassette, didn’t check but possibly a 46 or even 50t. If his rear tyre wasn’t bald and slipping I think he’d have beaten me up the techy hills - and surely a 160mm enduro full susser (or whatever it is) shouldn’t beat a nimble hard tail up basic hills - I put his progress down to his gears rather than his fitness.

5) ref point 4; my legs gave up at mile 21 and I was spinning a high cadence with no drive in my lowest gear (legs had no power) when he came sailing past at half the cadence. So, maybe it’s not that I need a bigger cassette, I just need bigger legs.

I love technical climbs and rooty descents. No massive jumps, or scary stuff for now but I intend to get better at the “all mountain” type riding and move away from XC a little once I have the skills/competence/confidence. This is a do-it-all bike really so will have to compromise somewhere.

Finally I’m on a budget until I convince the other half that I’m committed to riding and it’s not a fad. She doesn’t want me to spend ££££ when right now, the world is tough and cash is king. So, if I need a 20 quid goat, or 20 quid smaller chainring then that’s cool. If, as it seems, I need to STFU and ride, even better.

I’ll do the latter. Prove my commitment till Xmas then look at what I want. I’m coming from a Giant NRS 2004 and with the exception of the last 4 months, no riding for 10 years so it’s all new to me and hence so many questions.

Cheers again.

Keep what you have for now and go hard on the hills and off road, then use the road sections as recovery. You will soon not need to use the largest few gears on the back as your fitness improves. When that happens you could change the 30t chairing for something bigger.