[Closed] Rule 1 contravention. Driving to access an open space

Wasn’t the general consensus last time on this that the time spent driving to somewhere to exercise should be less than the time actually spent exercising.

So me driving to my local woods to ride is fine, but a six plus hour drive to ride the Borrowdale Bash is probably not on.

^^ agreed.

I'm surrounded by water for 180degrees and dangerous busy roads for the other 180degrees and bugger all cycle infra or bridleways. It's just about doable for me but my kids cannot get proper safe "wear them out a bit" exercise in that space. We tried every track and path we could find last time and it was a nightmare trying to stay away from people. Far too little green space and far too many people in it.

20-30 minutes drive away is open countryside that's easy to distance in and in autumn will be substantially empty on all but the nicest days. Once/twice a week to that doesn't seem to break rule 1 or the guidance given we'll be out riding 2-4 hours each time.

Hampshire has announced that its country parks are open and Anglian Water has been confirming it's open spaces at places like Rutland and Grafham are open. I think that's the answer along with no specific prohibition in law which also now recognises outdoor recreation not just exercise.

Sounds fine. The rules specifically allow driving to exercise. Just need to stay 'local', which doesn't have an official definition. I'd say same county, or next one if you are near the border, would be local, but not hard rules and plenty of special cases. The main factor is not interacting with others, so be self sufficient, don't stop for petrol, food, etc when away from home.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should

Here we go again.

If you get stopped, just say you're going for an eye test.

Seriously, i intend to drive a couple of miles to get out of town and into the countryside away from people, as i have been doing the whole year. I don't really give a s*** about the facebook mafia.

You could hand-wring the heck out of this decision or you could just drive out and have your bike ride. Avoid telling the internet about it too, helps ime

I think generally just using common sense will prevail about what local is and how far you should drive. I’m in Stourbridge and had arranged a ride with one friend at eastridge and we’ve now postponed because It’s not local. Our ride would have been more than the journey time but it’s obvious that there are plenty of other open spaces that I would be able to reach before I got there. Others would probably have gone but equally other people have been going to the pub constantly so my sense of right and wrong is different to other peoples.

, i intend to drive a couple of miles to get out of town

Pandemic or not this is just wrong. a couple of miles? walk or cycle!

Can someone just link to the same thread that we had last time, and we can just be done with it?

Gotta agree with TJ, driving a couple of miles (i.e. 2 miles) to ride or walk seems a bit silly. I live the wrong side of town and have to cycle about 6 miles to get into the Peak District proper. Wouldn't dream of driving.

Just dont drive to Innerleithan..

(Caution: rude words, VW van and matching kit content on facewhatever)

https://m.facebook.com/100006145756658/posts/pcb.3454987697870597/?photo_id=2839096946305136&mds=%2Fphotos%2Fviewer%2F%3Fphotoset_token%3Dpcb.3454987697870597%26photo%3D2839096946305136%26profileid%3D615326453%26source%3D48%26refid%3D18%26ref%3Dm_notif%26notif_t%3Dgroup_highlights%26__tn__%3DEH-R%26cached_data%3Dfalse%26ftid%3D&mdp=1&mdf=1

Our ride would have been more than the journey time but it’s obvious that there are plenty of other open spaces that I would be able to reach before I got there.

I think that covers Rule #1 quite nicely. Like it or not, we have 4 weeks of being allowed out to exercise, but that doesn't mean it should be the exact exercise you'd want to take in normal times. If you have to ask, you probably shouldn't, and if you can easily ride for half an hour to get there the exercise gets extended, which is A Good Thing.

Easy for me to say, as I have decent road and gravel type riding from the door, others are not so lucky.

Referencing the rocks on this post:

Just dont drive to Innerleithan..

(Caution: rude words, VW van and matching kit content on facewhatever)

Aha bless, the moronic scum I went to school with have finally learned to write.

Avoid telling the internet about it too, helps ime

This.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, then did it actually fall.

Or something.

You can drive to a garden centre to do some shopping .
I see no reason not to enjoy some time with your kids in the countryside.

There are 3 ways of approaching this reasonably IMO and of course some unreasonable

Reasonable:
1) adherence to a strict interpretation of the rules
2) adherence to the spirit of the rules
3) rational risk assessment ( much harder to do than people think)

Unreasonable:
1) looking for loopholes so you can continue as you want with as little inconvenience as possible
2) I'm alright jack screw you

You can either be part of the problem or part of the solution

Rumours for years on here about secret mods, secret covid marshalls now too? 😆

People driving from England into scotland to go to the tweed valley trails are clearly breaking the rules

You can either be part of the problem or part of the solution

Has always been the way. The rules give us more scope at present, there shouldn't be a need to take the p...roverbial, and if you do, don't advertise the fact.

Pandemic or not this is just wrong. a couple of miles? walk or cycle!

With young kids on bikes. A dog on a lead (oh shit, that'll put the cat among the pigeons). Along a main road with no pavement.

I'd say a 2 mile car ride to take them somewhere away and safe is perfectly within rule 1

We tried every track and path we could find last time and it was a nightmare trying to stay away from people. Far too little green space and far too many people in it.

Pandemic or not this is just wrong. a couple of miles? walk or cycle!

This to me sounds like risking your life just to prove a point and in the pandemic risking others.

1) looking for loopholes so you can continue as you want with as little inconvenience as possible

If the rules were clear this wouldn't be an issue, but they are not. People are not "looking for loopholes" they are looking for clarity.

In my personal situation I live about 30 miles away from trails which I think is an acceptable distance to drive this weekend simply because if I was to ride my bike from my house (gravel bike) I would be doing a 40+ mile loop anyway to feel like I have had a decent level of exercise. For most 40+ miles on a bike is mad but for the majority of people that ride on a regular basis its normal.

If you get stopped, just say you’re going for an eye test.

+1

If the rules were clear this wouldn’t be an issue, but they are not. People are not “looking for loopholes” they are looking for clarity.

They are pretty clear to me. If you can get a decent amount of exercise riding somewhere closer than a 30 mile drive away, I'd suggest that 30 mile drive was not an essential journey. And I wouldn't be too upset if - by sheer bad luck and timing - a police officer pulled me over and wanted to discuss that with me.

Only Individuals know what's around them and how easy it is to get to either with or without kids and dogs.

Only you can truely say whether or not a car journey to where ever is appropriate or not.

It might well be the best way to get outside and get some exercise, but If you're doubting the decision, there's probably something else you can do instead....

From Gov site

You can travel for physical activity. Ideally use your nearest, local appropriate venue to reduce pressure on transport infrastructure. But you can travel to outdoor open space irrespective of distance. You shouldn’t travel with someone from outside your household unless you can practise social distancing - for example by cycling. It is not possible to practice effective social distancing in small vehicles.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-phased-return-of-sport-and-recreation/guidance-for-the-public-on-the-phased-return-of-outdoor-sport-and-recreation

Sounds fine. The rules specifically allow driving to exercise.

They kinda do. But.......

If you live in England, you cannot travel overseas or within the UK, unless for work, education or other legally permitted reasons, and you should look to reduce the number of journeys you make. However you can and should still travel for a number of reasons, including.............to spend time or exercise outdoors - this should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)

I'd say that was pretty unambiguous.

If you're contemplating driving somewhere to ride your bike then by definition that's no longer local.

People fundamentally lack imagination, if you think of leaving town to park up somewhere and ride, you can almost guarantee that you're not the only one.

I drove 6 miles from my house to exercise yesterday. It's pretty tricky to paddle board in the middle of town. Much easier on the canal, where it's also very easy to keep away from other people.

To me the difference to last time is covered in the first post. 'to spend time or exercise outdoors' so it is not just about exercise but being outdoors. If you don't live in the countryside it then seems reasonable to drive somewhere. National trusts are open, is that only for people who can walk in? I'm not going to my usual riding spot for the next month, I think a 20mile drive is hard to justify. But I'm happy to drive to some 'local' woods to take the family for a walk, even though we could walk round our housing estate or round the local park instead.

Don't agree this is just a repeat of March/April Q&A. Things have moved on / situation / guidance / atmosphere has changed.

I don't think the police state will be looking on here to see who has flouted a 'rule' which isn't well defined enough so as to be enforceable.

Either way I'm not saying what my plans are for the weekend 😃

I’d say that was pretty unambiguous.

If you’re contemplating driving somewhere to ride your bike then by definition that’s no longer local.

You can argue that or not but really who cares what the rules say?

‘to spend time or exercise outdoors’ so it is not just about exercise but being outdoors. If you don’t live in the countryside it then seems reasonable to drive somewhere. National trusts are open, is that only for people who can walk in?

So the rules say I can cycle round the park with hundreds of people but not in the countryside by myself?

I was having this conversation with a Farcebook Mafia Lawmaker.

I work in the FOD, I have to drive to work, it's not rideable to do 24 miles each way with a 12 hour shift in the middle. I drive past the Cannop Cycle Centre. Because of the way my shifts work, 2 days, 2 nights, there's no reason in my mind why I shouldn't be able to go for a spin on some of the tame trails after work, riding well within my limits.

I could even ride with my whole team from work, I spend a quarter of my life with them, so riding for another hour or so isn't going to make any difference to anyone.

I'll still have to visit the petrol station, the detour into the car park at FOD would be less than a few hundred metres. But apparently I'm taking the piss because I'm not exercising locally and looking for loopholes to do want I want.

I was having this conversation with a Farcebook Mafia Lawmaker.

Talking to insane people on Facebook is your issue. Easily fixed.

They are pretty clear to me. If you can get a decent amount of exercise riding somewhere closer than a 30 mile drive away, I’d suggest that 30 mile drive was not an essential journey. And I wouldn’t be too upset if – by sheer bad luck and timing – a police officer pulled me over and wanted to discuss that with me.

Thats your interpretation though and might not be mine, the problem comes when people start to enforce their interpretation on others. Essential is open to interpretation so will cause issues like this. The rules are a mess if they want people to not look for these "loopholes" they need to make it black and white. No driving for exercise only exercise from your door and stay X distance from your house, but they haven't done that. Clear rules mean the tories have to take some accountability which they will never do.

You are not really breaking it you are using a reasonable interpretation of it.
If it does not contravene the Velo Rule 1 then win win.

Rather than getting too worked up about the intricacies of the wording of hastily drawn up, very general guidance think about it this way.
Are my actions likely to contribute to the spread of the virus in any way? If no, then carry on, if yes do something different.

You can argue that or not but really who cares what the rules say?

I think you just paraphrased Rule 1?

So the rules say I can cycle round the park with hundreds of people but not in the countryside by myself?

Two counter-arguments to that.

1) The reductio ad absurdum argument (because someone else will already think that the idea of driving to ride a bike is absurd in itself). The point of the lockdown is to minimize the risk of transmission by getting people to stay at home. If you spend your time writing up a list of loopholes that you deem acceptable then eventually everyone could be outside 24/7. Heck, why are pubs even closed, I fancy some outside recreation drinking in a beer garden with my mates?

2) There are different incremental risks, if I were to drive to Swinley rather than ride there (about 25miles of roads/byways) twice a week that means in all likelihood means an extra trip to the petrol station. Probably paying at the desk and getting some jelly babies rather than pay at the pump. Probably someone somewhere breaking down doing the same as me and having to share a cab with the recovery driver. Probably someone else having a tumble and having to call a big yellow taxi.

So the rules say I can cycle round the park with hundreds of people but not in the countryside by myself?

Not really the rules are vague. I'd hope that's to allow people to be sensible and as the post above reduce the spread of the virus.

they need to make it black and white. No driving for exercise only exercise from your door and stay X distance from your house, but they haven’t done that. Clear rules mean the tories have to take some accountability which they will never do.

If they made it that precise, there would be LOADS more people (rightly) complaining that they were excluded because of this, that or the other.

The rules on exercise outdoors are intentionally broad, to allow for some interpretation and so they don't have to be six pages long.

And FWIW these rules will have been drawn up by public health experts, who are unlikely to even be Tory voters.

EDIT: And I'd urge people to spend their energies worrying about things which have actually been shown to spread the virus, rather than policing others' behaviour around something that doesn't spread it.

But apparently I’m taking the piss because I’m not exercising locally and looking for loopholes to do want I want.

As has been seen on here I am a bit of a fundamentalist on this stuff but I see little wrong with breaking an essential journey to do some exercise. Doing the same with your work colleagues i would argue as wrong tho as the longer the exposure the greater the risk but I accept that under "rational risk assessment" the increase in risk is very small but it would clearly be outside the rules for group gatherings

The lockdown will only work if we pull together and trust each other.
Getting judgemental and critical of others will only increase division and destroy the spirit we need to make this work.
Remember we're doing this to look after each other.
Best of luck to everyone, and take care.

So the rules say I can cycle round the park with hundreds of people but not in the countryside by myself?

During the first lockdown in Scotland we faced this where I live. the answer was to be a bit imaginative and accept compromises. Our usual walking routes were rammed - so we found others including walking round residential streets.

So the rules say I can cycle round the park with hundreds of people but not in the countryside by myself?

The rules definitely don't say that.

So the rules say I can cycle round the park with hundreds of people but not in the countryside by myself?

The rules definitely don’t say that.

I assume they mean that their local park is busy so more likely to come into contact with people. I cycled through my local part yesterday at around 8am and I 100% passed more people than I would do if I went out to Surrey to ride my bike.

joepud

I assume they mean that their local park is busy so more likely to come into contact with people. I cycled through my local part yesterday at around 8am and I 100% passed more people than I would do if I went out to Surrey to ride my bike.

Exactly ... our local parks are jam packed with nowhere for people to disperse.
Indeed they seem to be the "meeting point" where kids and parents from different schools are meeting. (Accidentally or otherwise)

I rode past the "common/playground" on the way home yesterday.... bad timing as I had to be home for a VC parents evening... but quite literally hundreds on a small triangle.

The idea of not travelling is stop the inflection spreading to different areas, it’s not about the number of people you meet. Of course you can still travel from outside the U.K.

Anyway this has already been done on the main covid thread and others. It’ll probably end up getting closed as it’s just more of the same.

Don't close threads about exercise rules in deference to the main Covid one.

People don't want to have to read all the shit that gets posted in there. It's good to be able to avoid some of the usual suspects.

Drac
Full Member

The idea of not travelling is stop the inflection spreading to different areas, it’s not about the number of people you meet.

Which still ties in with a lot of the above. I was hoping to get a mid-week ride in soon - get in car, go to trails, ride, drive home. Now I would like to add in "get coffee" at least a couple of times there, but I wont, so there's a very high chance that i wont see a single other person or mink to spread the disease to the entire time

The idea of not travelling is stop the inflection spreading to different areas,

Unless an area (island) has zero cases then it's not stopping the spread.

it’s not about the number of people you meet.

It's going to be very difficult to infect someone unless I do ... I gotta go as I have a Covid test in 30 mins... so assuming I manage not to get infected whilst being tested it's hard to see how my being alone in the countryside could possibly infect anyone.

ok how does it work with trail centers? i know gisburn is open. Is it ok to go?

Last time I went local out of Cheltenham on a MTB went up a track called Sandy Lane onto Lecky hill and on that track alone I past 30 people which is crazy your lucky to see three or four just had an email from Forest England and they say all there car parks are open most people that go to Pedalway or Beechinghurst are not local so what is classed this time as local easy to avoid people in the Forest of Dean Hay Ho.

Driving somewhere to exercise?

That's not within the spirit of the guidance, what you should do is stay in your home, lock your doors and windows and don't allow anyone or anything into or out of your house for 20 years.

Rather than worrying about driving, when you get to your destination, take it steady.

You don't want to come off on something sketchy and then have to go to the local A&E and demand to be patched up.

They might not be amused by your hilarious injuries.

I have a day and a half’s work in Oban end of next week, driving up from Bournemouth and will be taking my bike, I’m intending to stop at Inners for a ride on my way up Thursday, then Ft William Saturday afternoon before driving back to Innerleithen and an overnight stay before riding Golfie Sunday morning and then driving home.

As far as I can see, unless Scottish rules change, none of this is “against the rules” I would be staying in the same amount of hotels bike or no bike and am not planning on meeting up with anyone else.

I gotta go as I have a Covid test in 30 mins… so assuming I manage not to get infected whilst being tested it’s hard to see how my being alone in the countryside could possibly infect anyone.

Yeah I should added ‘not just’ of course there’s a risk you’re not alone, you have accident, contact from surfaces. This isn’t about your individual circumstances it’s about a general ban.

Seems like people are making it up as they go along, despite what the government have said...

From Gov site

You can travel for physical activity. Ideally use your nearest, local appropriate venue to reduce pressure on transport infrastructure. But you can travel to outdoor open space irrespective of distance. You shouldn’t travel with someone from outside your household unless you can practise social distancing – for example by cycling. It is not possible to practice effective social distancing in small vehicles.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-phased-return-of-sport-and-recreation/guidance-for-the-public-on-the-phased-return-of-outdoor-sport-and-recreation/blockquote >

 

Yeah I should added ‘not just’ of course there’s a risk you’re not alone, you have accident, contact from surfaces. This isn’t about your individual circumstances it’s about a general ban.

This is my whole reason for going into the countryside!
I have routes that do not require any gates/stiles etc.

If I have an accident, I have an accident ... I can't see how where I am makes any difference.
I'm far more likely to have an accident cycling to the hospital... to get a test to get an operation to find out if I'm proper ill to see if its treatable.

At any point I test positive I get chucked on a pile of statistics and presuming I live 3 mo that will be the "not Covid" pile so excuse my personal circumstances.

Jimmy - extra journey Oban to Fort william? Extra nights stay?

doomanic
Full Member

Seems like people are making it up as they go along, despite what the government have said…

Mind that the Scottish (and Welsh?) rules are different though

Seems like people are making it up as they go along, despite what the government have said…

Fake news.

It's a known fact that by driving to a different area increases your R rate by ten fold.

Doomaniac +1

This lockdown has different guidance.

Theres quite a few people in this thread that either need to work on their comprehension of written English, or just get their facts straight, or stop making shit up and spouting it as fact, or indeed, all three.

The legislation says nothing about traveling for exercise, so it's not illegal. The guidance is clearly to stay local.

The page quoted below is clearly out of date. The the section directly above what is quoted below says that gyms can open.

From Gov site

You can travel for physical activity. Ideally use your nearest, local appropriate venue to reduce pressure on transport infrastructure. But you can travel to outdoor open space irrespective of distance. You shouldn’t travel with someone from outside your household unless you can practise social distancing – for example by cycling. It is not possible to practice effective social distancing in small vehicles.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-phased-return-of-sport-and-recreation/guidance-for-the-public-on-the-phased-return-of-outdoor-sport-and-recreation/blockquote >

 

I just do as I want as if everyone had done what I did for last 6 months we wouldn't be in another lockdown.
Driving in a car with same people you live with and then walking in the open air without coming into contact with anyone else is pretty much as safe as staying in your house.

However, going to people houses in groups of 6 and sitting in a lounge for hours is one of the worst things you can do and not something I would even entertain even when it was allowed.

TJ, No extra nights, should be finished early Sat so a couple of hours at Ft Bill then drive to Innerleithen, are there advised restrictions to travel in this area of Scotland?

Theres quite a few people in this thread that either need to work on their comprehension of written English, or just get their facts straight, or stop making shit up and spouting it as fact, or indeed, all three.

No, it’s been updated since some (including myself) last looked nothing to do with not understanding written English. Maybe best you don’t make shit up.

kerley

Driving in a car with same people you live with and then walking in the open air without coming into contact with anyone else is pretty much as safe as staying in your house.

However, going to people houses in groups of 6 and sitting in a lounge for hours is one of the worst things you can do and not something I would even entertain even when it was allowed.

yet a week (?) ago the government advice was to go to a pub?

No, it’s been updated since some (including myself) last looked nothing to do with not understanding written English. Maybe best you don’t make shit up.

He or she didn't. See "or just get their facts straight".

Driving in a car with same people you live with and then walking in the open air without coming into contact with anyone else is pretty much as safe as staying in your house.

Ref the above, setting aside the guidance for a moment, what risks does it pose when compared with exercising locally?

TJ, No extra nights, should be finished early Sat so a couple of hours at Ft Bill then drive to Innerleithen, are there advised restrictions to travel in this area of Scotland?

Reckon you'd be breaking the spirit of the Scottish rules pretty soundly. You're clearly allowed to travel there for work. But a Oban is in Argyll Council area and Fort William is in Highland Council area. So an Oban resident shouldn't travel to Fort Bill and vice versa unless essential.

Taking exercise close to where you're based for work would seem like the most in keeping with the rules.

He or she didn’t. See “or just get their facts straight”.

Apart from the part of people not understanding written English or making shit up.

Apart from the part of people not understanding written English or making shit up.

"or", not "and". Which does bring us back to written English.

or”, not “and”. Which does bring us back to written English.

Not really no as neither is right. No one made shit up or didn’t understand written English, they just didn’t read the updated rules.

I'm in the position of having a missus Who's become a bit of a covid shut-in, WFH solidly since March, barely leaves the house compared to the rest of us, then complains that she's not been out...

2nd "Lockdown" rolls round and she's laying down the law about riding a bicycle again, reciting the same imagined "Guidance" and "Rules" telling me I can't go out for more than an hour (thanks Gove) or more than 3 miles from the house... All easily refuted with 15 seconds of googling...

But in order to sooth her furrowed brow I've agreed to keep within a ten mile radius of the house (plenty) and not drive anywhere just for a solo ride Oh and provide live tracking (which she is too much of a technophobe to use)... compromise can always be reached...
Of course she want's me to drive the whole family to some local woods for a walk this weekend, oddly enough because she's got cabin fever again, but that's totally different apparently...

TBH I think UK-LD2 is just a bit weaker in lots of people's minds anyway, the kids are still going to schools, Students are now at Uni, half the workforce are back in their offices, lots more shops will be justifying their wares as "essential"... Going for a short drive to an "outdoor open space" have a socially distanced spin with your family is perfectly acceptable, if not responsible IMO.
The people who will object the most are mostly barricaded inside their homes watching a superpower implode on the news while a lack of sunshine drives them further into a SAD induced spiral...

Bless Drac and his burning urge to always be right.

BITD I used to find it annoying, but its quite endearing really. Very cute.

A bit like one of those fluffy but cantankerous cats your gran used to have. You know what will happen, but you just can't help petting it!

jimmy748

The extra journey from Oban to fort William is clearly not within the guidance. You do not go thru fort William to get From Oban south thus this is not an essential journey

Stopping in the boarders en route is not as problematic but again you should not be breaking a journey from my understanding

If you live in a Level 0, 1, or 2 area in Scotland, or are considering travel to Scotland from anywhere else, you should:

minimise unnecessary journeys between areas in different levels
and avoid any unnecessary travel to places in Level 3 or Level 4 areas
if you have to travel for essential purposes, follow the guidance on travelling safely below

Oban is level 2, fort William level 1 so again thats another reason not to.

IMO going to Fort William is just not on. Stopping in the boarders probably falls in that bit between a literal strict interpretation of the rules and reasonable risk assessment. The time spent at the trails - if you spent that time driving instead you would not have to overnight in scotland on your way south

You can travel for physical activity. Ideally use your nearest, local appropriate venue to reduce pressure on transport infrastructure. But you can travel to outdoor open space irrespective of distance.

Cool, I shall be heading to the beach this weekend then. The nearest appropriate venue to surf is only 200 miles away.