[Closed] RT3 vs DB Inline

I've got the new IL air coming as a warranty replacement. Stay away from it if your running 160mm travel on a vpp or dw link bike or even a spesh enduro. They've redesigned the IL but I'm not entirely convinced they have fixed the problems with it. Get a fox float x or of course the x2 if you can push to that.

My transition scout came with the rt3, nice shock but nothing in comparison to the db inline. I would go with the new version if you can afford IMO.

Buy a Fox so we can rip out the internals and put in the Push stuff seems a bit of an odd reason to buy a Fox shock, and not a very good endorsement of Fox shocks - why not just buy a decent one in the first place. I had my Fox shock pushed and it was alot better so I would recommend it. On the basis the push conversion is as near as makes no difference a replacement of a good chunk internals of the shock then get a second hand one that needs a service and get that pushed.

I just replaced my pushed Fox shock with a DB inline and it is a better shock, absolutely no doubt about it. And that is a straight shock replacement on the same bike so a direct back to back comparison. The only slightly daunting thing about the DB Inline is the whole tuning thing. It comes with a 'neutral' tune and on most bikes there is a database of suggested settings from the manufacturers, but my bike wasn't on there unfortunately. So you've got to resist the urge to fiddle straight away. Do it methodically - ride the bike a few times first and get used to the feel of the neutral tune, then make one change at a time and ride that a few times. It's a slow progressive process and i'm still at it about 6 months on, but it is getting better. Far better than just attacking it, fiddling with all the settings and getting your knickers in a twist chasing your tail with all he settings.

Why would you swap your inline for an RT3 ? thats crazy I had my inline serviced in the summer and all the new internals fitted by TF and that shock is amazing, took a bit of time to tune to my liking, but now its sweeter that syrup. Stick with the inline the reliability issues are fixed now, CC has put huge effort in to rectify the earlier issues.
Ed Oxley made a short video on tuning which is great.

My inline is on a spectral BTW

I recently asked this very question as I was worried about the reliability of the Inline.

Stay away from it if your running 160mm travel on a vpp or dw link bike

I have an Inline on a bike that is 160 travel and has VPP. Two years later I am still waiting for the inevitable failure. Which has lead me to the decision that when I can do with out my bike for a week I'm going to get the Inline serviced and stick with it.

 

I've got a db inline on my burner. It's had all the internals replaced under warranty after a year or so and then 6 months later the seals replaced again. It seems like it's gone again (3 months further on) Next weeks job is to investigate the next steps re: warranty upgrades.
Not sure if the new IL is suitable for a dw link bike, but perhaps the new internals on the regular inline might stay working for longer.
Is a fabulous shock when it's working, but mine seems to have reached a point of unreliability.

I have an Inline on my bike, Has had latest updated internals.
Seems after chatting to TF Tech guy that the updates sort it.
They have now released a new version that is even better, It is also available as an Update at TF, You can get your old shock updated to the full 2017 version for a small charge

I've had the IL for nearly two years. The warranty repair was done last year at TF, so far it hasn't faulted.
Why would i replace it? I don't really like it and it's not a tuning issue.
The new one has a spring curve that looks better and likely to improve on the issues i personally have with the shock, which are that it feels tight. I can't do enough to get it feeling soft off the top and there's a fair bit of stiction. It's mainly the lack of supple feel in the first part of the stroke - something a debonair is good on - and then a lack of support in the mid-range. The bike feels good on really chunky stuff but it's the quick stutter stuff that hauls the rear end up too much and i didn't experience this on the previous bike. This has been echoed in reviews by VitalMTB and MBR, hence my reason for looking at something more 'normal'.
I guess it's such a subjective topic that i won't get an answer.

what bike is this for?

thats crazy I had my inline serviced in the summer and all the new internals fitted by TF

The new internals only started being used in October....

It's for a Spectral.
I believe the new parts were being fitted earlier than October^. Mine was done in July. I spoke with TF and the info from them was that new parts sorted the common issue.
Joe Barnes use to (when they were in sponsorship with Rock Shox [i'm assuming that was the reason]) have the XX Monarch, whch is an RT3 with remote lockout rather than 3 position control. Nowt wrong with an RT3......or is there?
Any RT3'ers able to comment?
Cheers

Oh, i think some commenters have misread the initial post. If i could just throw an X2 on i would.

You would have got some minor improvements but it was an email from Cane Creek that told me they'd only started with the proper revision in October. At least you know that if you have issues it can still be properly sorted!

Sounds like you've not tuned it very well.

Are you running any volume spacers? Have you used the app to tune to shock? It's easy to balls up the tune.

I removed the spacers, one at a time, to see how that affected things and it had no adverse result. With the rear feeling (to me) harsh at the recommended sag and hard to get through all the travel, this was my reasoning. I then opened up all the damping as, even when just bouncing the bike through the pedals, it seemed slow acting. The result of this was a bit of bucking so i added a turn of HSR which curbed it. I don't see how i can get the shock to be more sensitive than the current settings. I could add the spacers and drop the pressure but then i'll be striking pedals off everything. Maybe i could add some LSC to add mid-stroke support here?

I don't use the app.

From the process you've just described, you should really try the app (or at least the paper setup guide)

as above, use the app or paper guide.

I understand the functions of the shocks adjustment.
The sag is set correctly although there's always room to tweak. The spring curve can be altered to ramp up at the end by adding volume reducers. As i have no issues with blowing through the travel and bottoming out without them, we can assume this is not an issue. In fact, it's the opposite so it falls within logic to remove them.
My preference is to have a fast, supple, reactive setup as where i ride is never smooth. Babies heads aplenty! With my spring set within range and every option to speed the shock up already maxed out, we can assume that i'm on the limit and therefore that the shock doesn't suit my preference - app or no app. I mentioned previously that my thoughts here have been echoed by some pretty experienced testers from publications, so i'm not imagining things.
I've gone a bit further with trying things out now and replaced the volume reducers. This will allow me to run a bit less pressure without the risk of blowing straight through the travel and, hopefully, create a softer top end in the same way as people run multiple tokens in their forks.
To combat the wallow this will cause and add some support in the mid-range, i figured i would add some LSC. I will test this tomorrow.
Now, if that makes absolutely no sense i'd be grateful to hear why and welcome anyones expertise. I realise i am a ballbag type character who's susceptible to exposing himself in such a way with the words he speaks, but i'm not thick. I don't NEED an app to think for me and i'm quite happy using that all too often redundant grey sponge between my ears that so many lemmings aren't these days.
So, once again, if you've got any helpful input then i welcome it. But the question still remains; has anyone got a view on their RT3 they can share?
Thanks

get the upgraded air spring with the larger negative spring. The RT3 isn't as good as the inline. If you have the rebound set to fully open, you surely must be getting bucked all over the place. The fact that you have the rebound open fully suggests either the shock is ****ed or you don't know what you are doing re tuning the shock. If you ride of a kerb slowly the shock should compress, rebound up then settle. If it moves up and down then you don't have enough rebound. You can do the kerb ride slowly and watch the shock.

^ and poah is talking about the low speed rebound (LSR) there, high speed rebound (HSR) should only come into play when you have come near to or have hit maximum travel (I only mention this because you say you backed off all the damping then added some HSR because you were getting bucked)

What size shock do you need? I've got an unused rockshox monarch plus debonair rc3 200x57 M/M

The app doesn't think for you, it just saves you writing down all the different things you've tried and provides some ideas for starting points.

It's pretty odd to sit there slagging it when you've never used it, and your inline, which is a great shock I ran for nearly two years without issue, isn't working for you.

Give it a go.

@Poah - no, i'm not getting bucked all over the place. You can believe me. The shock isn't fast enough to do that in my experience, hence why i'm posting this topic. And yes, maybe there is an issue with it. I have stated that i opened all the damping, it was bucking (only off jumps) so i added a turn of HSR which curbed it. So, already been there, solved it, not an issue. As Rubber_Buccaneer has stated, what you're talking about is LSR so maybe you don't know what you're doing. And riding a curb won't quite suffice in providing adequate proving ground for suspension setting. Plus, if my LSR is increased all that will happen is the shock will pack. I know this from previous experience on a Fox Float. Trust me, the best setting for where we ride here is a fast setting. Like the revered app states; "every ride is different"! Take heed.
And I'm not slagging the app. I'm in favour of thinking it through, which is only a matter of creating starting points then trial and error. But maybe i'll give it a try. Can't do any harm. For those who are digging into me for not using it; how will using it speed the shock up GIVEN THE DAMPING IS WIDE OPEN? If all you can say is "use the app" you're overlooking what i'm saying.

Here's a paragraph from VitalMTB's review on my bike, just so you can be assured i'm not talking out of my hoop.

The biggest gripe we consistently had was the initial sensitivity of the Cane Creek rear shock. Although the shock has great control over the suspension, we've grown accustomed to the traction and feel provided by shocks with better top end suppleness. We could feel when the back wheel started every impact ever so slightly, which was surprising given a relatively high initial leverage rate. It didn't knock us off line, it just let us know what our wheels were up to. Would the Canyon be better with a RockShox Monarch Plus Debonair to match the feel of the Pike out front? Would a FOX Float or Float X with an EVOL can work well? We couldn't help but think the bike was ever so slightly mismatched front to back because of initial sensitivity differences. The Cane Creek's initial guidelines were really close to spot on for everything else, though we did have to change the initial/low-speed compression. Even with it full open, the sensitivity of the rear never quite matched the front.

I've already stated the new DB Air IL has a better claimed spring curve and i may go for the upgrade but the damping, unless mine does have a fault, will be the same.

Here's Bikeradar's view on Canecreek damping (i realise this is the DBAir). Notice the line, "a little bit sluggish. A little bit stiction'ey. Even when messing with all the settings i just couldn't get the bike feel alive and reactive"

Poah, do you wanna ring these guys up and tell them where they're going wrong? "You need the app, mate. You don't know what you're doing. Get the app"

It's a 190x50.

It does sound though like you've worked your way into a setting that kinda works, but is a bit daft and far from optimum. At least the app would get you back at a sensible starting point.

Adding volume spacers means you can run less pressure without bottoming out, making the shock a bit softer to start with.

Adding some compression damping will allow you to run less pressure without the shock using too much travel, also softening small bumps. There was a trend in MX for a while to run ridiculously soft springs with large amounts of damping. It's now passed, but it is a setup that worked for some people. It sounds like you've done the opposite, trying to do everything with springrate and all the damping turned down.

And low speed rebound is what stops the shock wallowing around, so the idea of setting it whilst riding off kerbs isn't stupid, and you probably shouldn't have shouted that idea down. If you add some LSC and HSC to help stop it compressing to quickly (see the last point), then you can add some more LSR to balance it out. That's taking the damping past the point of being critically damped, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, ideally you want the suspension dealing with the stuff you can't, keeping the wheel in contact with the ground to generate grip, and moving out of the way when you hit them quicker than your legs can absorb the impacts. It doesn't want to be absorbing every little bump.

Get the app, or phone whichever tuner sold you the shock, and get some known good settings for your bike/weight/riding. Then if it still doesn't work maybe it's the shock (either faulty or it just doesn't work with your bikes design). But just telling everyone else they don't know what they're doing for disagreeing with you isn't going to get you anywhere.

GIVEN THE DAMPING IS WIDE OPEN?

Even with it full open, the sensitivity of the rear never quite matched the front

The Vital quote isn't backing up what you're saying.

no, i'm not getting bucked all over the place. You can believe me. The shock isn't fast enough to do that in my experience, hence why i'm posting this topic

if you are not getting bucked then it sounds like your shock is broken. There should be noticeable rebound speed with it fully open.

this is my old inline with my preferred settings first then fully open after (190x51). with it fully open, it bucks you.

LSR – 14 clicks from maximum

HSR – 1.5 turns from maximum

Interesting post, I'm moving from a Pushed Fox CTD on my Spectral to a new shock. I was looking at a whole range including, RS Monarch Plus, DBInline, BOS, Fox Float X and Ohlins. I've ended up buying a secondhand Inline and is currently with TF Tuned being serviced and upgraded.

Can't wait to get it back and see how it compares. I've never been overly impressed with the CTD so it will be good to see how different the Inline is. Setting it up could be fun and games though.

Just got the Inline back from TF - looks so good, can't wait to get it on the bike

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gah, really need to pick up the phone to CC!

Is that the revised CCDB inline? Mine has the valve pointing in a different direction so it can hook my shorts leg every 5 mins 👿

Yeah, one of the first although it's not a totally brand new one as apparently they don't arrive until later this month. Parts only arrived for the 190mm shock at TF Tuned on Monday.

It's got the new seal heads, bigger inner and outer air cans to provide bigger positive and negative springs, new shape diaphragm and black shaft / climb lever.

What are to charging now for the upgrade to full IL rather than just the internals.

They recommended to me just to do the internal as you get most of the benefits but that black stanchion and new can looks so much better.

kirky72 - Member

What are to charging now for the upgrade to full IL rather than just the internals.

Service + £75 on the TF website

Hasn't the black coating been wearing off on quite a few DB Airs? I'm not bothered at all about the outer stuff, just want to know it isn't likely to give up on me any time soom

Hasn't the black coating been wearing off on quite a few DB Airs?

Somewhere on here iirc, will have a hunt and see if I can find it again

EDIT: Seems it's not only the black ones, but they maybe aren't as resilient as other brands when it comes to alignment http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/banshee-rune-shock-wear

My broken (for the 3rd time) DB Inline is off to TF this morning. Definitely getting the new internals, probably go with the IL as well (my upgrade chimp is shouting loud!). Just need to work out if that'll be a good idea on my 140mm DW Burner.
I see comments above about the more linear spring being a bad idea on the bigger travel DW link bikes. Hopefully the guys at TF will be able to look at the linkage force curve and advise appropriately.
Interestingly I tend to ride with much less LSC than the base tunes peeps are running on the CanceCreek forums. Almost certainly I'll need more if the spring doesn't ramp up and therefore has less mid stroke support.

Either way, I'm really looking forward to having a more reliable shock. When my DB Inline has been working it's brilliant. This is very apparent having the original Fox CTD back on the bike at the moment.

I spoke to Dave at TFT and he was a wealth of knowledge on the Inline.

Bushwacked - Member
Just got the Inline back from TF - looks so good, can't wait to get it on the bike
#

[b]Looks nice that, report back.[/b]

My Inline currently behaving (since rebuild in october) apart from a growing knock when in climb mode, im sure it will be back to TF soon though.

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Fitted now (bike is dirty and well used)

I quite fancy replacing the Monarch on my Scout and if the new Inline proves to be reliable over the next six months, it's probably what I'll buy 😀

Obviously I'm very interested to hear how it rides.

I quite fancy replacing the Monarch on my Scout and if the new Inline proves to be reliable over the next six months, it's probably what I'll buy

I'm also looking at swapping my shock on my scout- swaying towards a float X at the moment but the inline looks interesting.

Arrrghh how do you have that new inline before me, I'm fuming lol. If the new curve is more linear I'll be bottoming out everywhere.

Pure luck. Booked it in for the 6th expecting it to be delayed and happened to be the day the parts arrived. Plus only the parts for my size shock arrived, everything else is arriving later this month. Pure lucky

I've been waiting since boxing day. How does it ride compared to the other one? Performance wise I had zero issues with the shock, it just doesn't last more than a few months.

Performance wise I had zero issues with the shock, it just doesn't last more than a few months.

I guess if it is much too linear then a volume reducer will help it be tunable to more scenarios?

I've sat on it in the kitchen so far, perhaps need to at least ride it round a car park before I give a verdict

I've just had an email saying I won't be getting the new IL anytime soon now as they've had to reject all the dampers, they also rejected all the dampers on the double barrel too last month so I couldn't have one of those either. My advise would be to leave these alone until they get their act together. Ohlins designed the original.

Really?? You mean the whole new shock or the upgraded shocks?

Their whole delivery, of 200 x 57 dampers. You would think they would receive delivery, check quality of the stock ect before announcing it's release. This is frankly embarrassing. The parts Tf tuned have are the new parts and hopefully were checked because my old one is getting the upgrade treatment from them. TF tuned on the other hand are brilliant.

I'm hoping the 190 dampers are ok! I'm not enjoying having the Fox ctd back on my bike.

Just about to test mine out. Will report back

It's good, damn good... So much better than the CTD it replaced.

Check it held the same air pressure. Mine would drop after every ride even after a service or new.

All good, same pressure and sag

Considered an STX 22 from TF tuned instead, guys?

Considered an STX 22 from TF tuned instead, guys?

Id buy one from anyone in the UK TBH.

Hi , pitchpro please can you email me, dave at tftuned .com or ring me
01373826800

cheers

My inline is already on its way to you Dave as I've been told you have the updated parts in my shock size.

Dave sure knows lots about these CC shocks !
Excellent service once again from Tf.
Can't wait to get mine back.

If its Cane creek related Dave at TF is the man.

Spoke to him earlier cracking guy with a ton of knowledge.

Yeah, Dave's a top bloke, massively helpful with my shock - took loads of time to discuss it with me.

I have been in discussion with Cane Creek about problems with my out of warranty Inline. Long story short they are prepared to do me a rebuild if I send it back to them and cover the postage. I was wondering if anyone else had been down that route, if so how long did it take and how much did it cost to send it there and back. Trying to work out if there is a saving compared to using TFT.

Not something I've had to worry about, but what sort of issues have you had?

bullroar - Member
I have been in discussion with Cane Creek about problems with my out of warranty Inline.

How old? CC told me 2 years for UK warranty.

I was lucky. Last time my Inline went wrong was October at BPW what it stuck down. Managed to pump it up to re-extend it but needed the CS half-on to get any rebound/compression damping. Shop I bought from closed Nov 15, so couldn't go through them, and the shock was bought Feb 15, so still within the CC stated 2 year warranty period (TFT said 1 year).

After to-an-fro with Extra (distributor in UK), TFT and CC them selves, they agreed to a warranty upgrade for $75 to a AirCS.

The Inline went back to TFT in October to be fixed under warranty for the third time. Never mounted it again after that - went 2nd hand CCDB Coil as a spare whilst CC sorted the warranty replacement out.

So far so good. Got a good 3 hours on the new IL upgraded shock yesterday.

I opted for more LSC than previous as I was a) probably running a bit low before and the more linear spring on a DW link bike probably lends itself to needing a bit more LSC (at least in my mind).
I chose to run 1 turn less HSR to be more in line with similar base tunes for DBInline shocks for the bike from the cane creek forums.
I had to run significantly higher air pressure for the correct sag with the upgraded IL hardware compared to pre-upgrade. Possibly not that surprising for a DW Link bike with the linear start to the shock?

Riding.....
Climbing traction was excellent (especially after riding for a while with my old fox CTD in the frame!!!). Definitely better mid stroke support (I guess the increase in LSC helps there). Didn't find it packed down so the reduction in HSR hasn't had a detrimental effect. I might play with this a bit.
I didn't quite bottom out (although I'm cautious of any bigger drops at the moment). I suspect a tweak to the volume reducers might be worth an experiment once I've got that mojo back.
Rear end grip through faster turns in the loam and over roots etc felt fab. Better than it ever used to with the older DBinline hardware.

Lets hope the reliability is there, because this seems better than ever from a riding perspective.

Good to hear - I've been experimenting and feels great riding along - had to add some HSC for drops bigger than 4ft as was bottoming out. Finding on some jumps the backend isn't quite as I want it so thinking I still need to play.

Overall really pleased and loving it.

Got my shock back from TFT last night following the upgrade. A couple of points to note.

1) You need to run a higher air pressure to get the same sag compared to the original.

2) The position and length of the air valve is different to the previous version. Anyone (like me) who has a shock pump with a chunky connector might find it will clash with the new air can before fully engaged. So that will be another £20 plus for a new pump.

How you guys doing with the upgrade, still running fine?
My inlines going in for warranty next week so going for it.

Picked up my DBAir IL today, looks nice on my 2016 scout. First ride tomorrow!

Waiting on a dbair IL coming for Lewis's ripcord. Hopefully today

Had mine for a while now and loving it. Spent some time with Jake from Sprung Suspension and he helped get the bike balanced - feels awesome now.

Great upgrade

not had a chance to test it off road but break away force is greatly reduced.

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