You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Was up visiting a good friend in Llanberis and an old mate who was over from Canada. They all are into sea kayaking so I chose not to joint them today and instead had a solo ride up Snowdon. Conditions were perfect and the hordes were fairly diminished to be fair, despite the train still running to the halfway station. actually got a view from the summit for once and had a great ride down the Rangers despite a small OTB when a wheel hung on a rock drop and suffering numb hands. At least it would be worth the pain for the great descent down Telegraph Valley. Always a highlight! Imagine my disappointment to discover it has been completely and utterly wiped out as a track. It now resembles a very fining manicured gravel path such as you might find in a garden of a stately home, A uniform 1 metre width from top to bottom, Not a single exposed rock or water bar to be seen, an absolute travesty of path sanitisation of the like I have never seen before. Thing is it looks to have been done really well with hidden drainage so that I don't even think a few hard winter storms are going to do anything to it at all. I don't really understand why it was done. The whole track was in a pretty good natural condition, and apart from forming part of a popular MTB loop never seemed to get very much foot traffic either. I know we have had complaints of similar from the Peaks and the Lakes but this takes it to a whole new level. Ah well. At least I didn't get a puncture, something that seemed to plague me every time I had ridden down it previously...
This isn't the telegraph valley trail but it is the one that leads up to it and gives you a good indication of what to expect. If anything it is even more manicured than this bit!
[img] 
[/img]
It is good to know that our money is being so well spent.
It was pretty sanitised over 5 years ago apart from the top part? If my memory serves me correctly? You ran the risk of puncturing on the drainage channels when flying over them at speed.
The ranger path was very good tho.
They did it about 18 months ago. The natonal park has been doing it everywhere - including inappropriate "repairs" through the middle of Sites of Special Scientific Interest.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60175334
They don't give a monkeys. I know one of the people who was involved in the crafnant work - they had money to use up or lose and people they could pay. I like the guy, he's skint, he isn't going to turn it down. Even though the work was illegal.
BTW - by "illegal" I mean they didn't carry out the statutory environmental surveys that they are legally required to do for SSSI's before they turned a 12 inch wide path to a six foot wide motorway.
Couple of rocks in some boggy bits was all that could have possibly been justified.
Well I guess they could argue that the route up the rangers and down Telegraph is now wheel chair accessible (if you have strong arms).
That kind of rationale (from the 'authorities' - not meaning you yourself) I thought was reserved for the total fhoookwhits in Derbyshire County Council to use indiscriminately.
It’s because gravel riding is the latest thing
Just out of interest, how much battery did you have left after that ride ?
I did an extra loop to the nw of Llanberis. Total was 31 km and 1400m climbing. Had 14% battery left. All climbing was on trail setting except when attempting the very steep sections which I tried to do on boost.
I loathe path sanitisation as much as the next rider but there is a precious irony about a bloke on an electric motorbike complaining about actions taken to prevent erosion.
*opens biscuits*
They did it last spring IIRC, I was dismayed like yourself when I discovered it.
Don't tell me they're done the same to the Crafnant descent to Capel?
I dislike trail sanitisation like everyone else but telegraph alley was never anything more than a convenient way back to lanberris. I actually prefer it now as the push up over the hill is now rideable (if I remember correctly) and the water bars are gone. Rangers is still epic and that is all that matters. Fingers crossed they don't screw with it.
dislike trail sanitisation like everyone else but telegraph alley was never anything more than a convenient way back to lanberris. I actually prefer it now as the push up over the hill is now rideable (if I remember correctly) and the water bars are gone. Rangers is still epic and that is all that matters. Fingers crossed they don’t screw with it.
This basically. All of it. Especially the water bars bit.
No no no. Just no.
Have either of you actually seen it? It's like riding down a path in the outside bit at garden centre now.
Before there were a few rocks and you could ride fast and have fun timing your hops over the waterbars. Plus it was much more sympathetic to the surroundings and not exactly eroded or anything.
Have either of you actually seen it?
Erm, no. Gotta admit that I haven't recently. The last time I did Snowdon we did all three bridleways, so by the time I got to Telegraph it was pitch black. And the time before that we went up telegraph at the start, but again it was pitch black.
The only time I’ve done it in daylight was 17 years ago and my recollection was a crappy collection of killer waterbars and not much else. So I actually didn't mind the change, under the circs.
It's sacrilege to say so, but my experience of the Bridleway along Llyn Cowlyd and the one north from Capel ( mentioned above I think) was so grim that I personally am not vexed by them being changed. Having said which, if people more skilled than me enjoy them as they are then I support your wish to not have them sanitised.
I last did telegraph valley about 8 years ago, and even from then I just remember it being a straight dull mostly smooth gravelish path punctuated by water bars - doesnt look much different now.
At least it's not flexipave - that crap is sprouting up way too much locally (Marple /edge of Peaks)
Don’t tell me they’re done the same to the Crafnant descent to Capel?
Looks that way from the photos! 🙁
That was a cracking descent. The Ranger's path has been 'Improved' recently, too - paved with boulders though, not kitty-litter.
What’s next? Concrete steps up the Pyg track? Hand rails along Crib Goch?
Aren’t mountains supposed to be, I dunno, mountainous?
@Cha****ng:
Don’t tell me they’re done the same to the Crafnant descent to Capel?
Yep. And when I complaned to the local MP I basically got a "F U" back from them.
The guy who's doing it is full of the bullsh*t excuses "make it more accessible" - although wheelchair access is impossible. And he dodged my specific questions about the legal requirement for environmental surveys.
But from the horses mouth (one of the guys involved doing it): "They had some money, we wanted paid".
What’s next? Concrete steps up the Pyg track?
They put some completely unnecessarry stone steps in at the top of the Watkin path scramble that made me fear for the whole thing.
What they really should just do is this: They should have snipers positioned so anyone on the mountain wearing trainers or high heels (have seen both) get shot in the face. Then we can identify them and go kill their families too.
That way, we're applying a selective pressure to weed out the genetic component of idiots on mountains - because when poor johnny dies his family tend to call for "safer mountains" - and sanitisation of wild spaces is the result.
We need rid of these people. Just my $0.02.
It's Snowdon, it's the most popular hill to walk up. The stat that I always see is that it gets well over 585,000 visitors a year. That's 11,250 or so every week. No wonder the paths are being made to look like garden centres. I'll bet it sees more folks on it than most garden centres do every weekend.
It's not just Snowdon @Nickc - it's spreading around just that one mountain too.
And Snowdon's had over half a million visitors a year for decades - it's only now that they're deciding to turn everything into a manicured path.
It’s Snowdon, it’s the most popular hill to walk up.
Hardly seen anyone on Telegraph Valley the times I've ridden it.
One thing is, people often say "you don't see many walkers on that path", but that can be a really good argument FOR sanitising and ease-of-accessing it. "Not many walkers" doesn't always mean "nobody wants to walk there", it can also mean "the path isn't very suitable for many walkers". And in honeypot locations, spreading the load can be very useful.
That said, this path looks pretty orrible to me. It'll weather and naturalise but it still seems incredibly unsympathetic.
And Snowdon’s had over half a million visitors a year for decades – it’s only now that they’re deciding to turn everything into a manicured path.
Or alternatively, it gets half million visitors a years despite the paths not being accessible. I agree with Northwind, If you want traffic off the main routes, but don't want to put people off of coming to the mountain this is the way you do it... I don't think it looks good by the way, most sanitization looks and feels pretty bad, but I get why they do it.
I couldn't give a ****. Put escalators in if it keeps the hordes away from where I want to be (and that includes the placebo pedallers). I love honeypot trailworks, me.
What they really should just do is this: They should have snipers positioned so anyone on the mountain wearing trainers
OK so whilst I wholeheartedly agree with this approach in shops, places of work and around the place, what ( TF) is wrong with trainers for rambling up Mount Wyddfa?
And to push the point, at what point in the following continuum do you draw the line ( a bead)?
Trainers
North Face Trainers
North Face approach shoes
North face approach shoes high top
North face hiking boots.
Hard-core rambler style leather hiking boots.
Koflach Arctis Extrem
I'm intrigued.
OK so whilst I wholeheartedly agree with this approach in shops, places of work and around the place, what ( TF) is wrong with trainers for rambling up Mount Wyddfa?
and how does he feel about someone wearing trainers whilst riding an ebike up a mountain?
While I'm not sure I'm happy with sanitising trails, I'm also not sure that bridleways can be left just how mountain bikers want them, given that they are shared use paths.
Sounds like a wider chat is needed about the bridleways issue and shared use...not the same issue in Scotland - but still has same variety of users and whatever clothing they choose to wear...
@Chevychase / it was funny/terrifying that we went up Pyg a few years ago with crampons and a rope (ice axe as well) as from about halfway up it was snow/ice and passed about 25 people in trainers and pacamacs coming down.
What was worse was getting about 100m along a very snowy Crib Goch to find a group of teenagers in trainers and jeans (at least the had semi-decent jackets) clinging for dear life trying to figure out if they should continue or not. The wife and I managed to convince them to head back down (at least 2 couldn’t feel their toes by then!) and we continued with a few friends who’d never been there in winter.
I think there’s a bit of a “It’s only Snowden” attitude to that mountain.
@Chevychase / it was funny/terrifying that we went up Pyg a few years ago with crampons and a rope (ice axe as well) as from about halfway up it was snow/ice and passed about 25 people in trainers and pacamacs coming down.
I agree. What would you do with a rope on the PyG track?
Sorry I only posted half my reply earlier.
The rope wasn’t for Pyg, it was for a very snowy Crib Goch which is a grade 1 winter climb so a bit of a safety line does wonders for the nerves.
The Horseshoe is bloody lovely in a nice snowy day (and a sunny summer day as well).
I agree that there’s no problem with trainers going up the mountain in nice weather, but this wasn’t nice weather it was reasonably heavy snow.
I’m all for dressing appropriately for the weather.
They should have snipers positioned so anyone on the mountain wearing trainers or high heels (have seen both) get shot in the face.
I’ve been up the top in trainers and wasn’t a risk to myself or anyone. In fact I would say that those that turn up in leather ‘mountain’ boots are inappropriately dressed.
Also anyone who decides to push a bike to the top is being inappropriate, unless they are wearing high heels, then it’s a good effort !
There's a lot of really weird footwear snobbery / anti-snobbery on here. Meanwhile, 'Mount Wyddfa'? I'm guessing this is some sort of bastardised combo of Yr Wyddfa and Mount Snowdon, which I hope is tongue in cheek. Carpet slippers ftw btw YMMV.
wasn’t nice weather it was reasonably heavy snow.
OK, in that case I totally agree 👍
There’s a lot of really weird footwear snobbery / anti-snobbery on here.
Thats what I thought until he explained that it was winter conditions, in which case yup.
Meanwhile, ‘Mount Wyddfa’? I’m guessing this is some sort of bastardised combo of Yr Wyddfa and Mount Snowdon, which I hope is tongue in cheek.
Yup, combing my two pet language hates into one compact package.
Thats what I thought until he explained that it was winter conditions, in which case yup.
I just think people should wear what they're comfortable with in the conditions.
Yup, combing my two pet language hates into one compact package.
Hmmm... the correct nomenclature is, of course, Yr Snowdon. I'm told that's what the locals call it. I'm not sure about this combing thing though 🙂
Damn. The in fell out of my combining
The thing with footwear is that context is everything.
Honestly, an axe and rope for a slightly white Snowdon?
Do you have a seatbelt on your sofa?
Running shoes and yaktrax are perfectly workable up to grade III. If you think you need more, perhaps what you need is more practice?